CC (but all welcome of course)Dd's dilemma

[Chris in VA]

We are visiting dd at college to give her the car before we fly out tonight for Israel. We had some time to kill while she's in class, so we went to her apt complex for next year (yeah, you need to book almost a year in advance!). She sent us the lease, we looked it over, and we cosigned last week. 

The apt is perfect. Her own bedroom and bathroom, reasonable price, etc. And she is so happy she can have the cat starting next August at move-in. 

She told us there was a $200 deposit for the cat. No prob. But she did not carefully read the pet policy nor send it to us. We read it (we were surprised during the tour today when the guy told us the policy) and her cat will need to be declawed. Makes sense as it is a furnished apartment.  

She missed that. We did not know there was actual paperwork/written pet policy. I expect she won't declaw. I don't know if it is total declaw; I suspect front only would be ok, as it is not specified. 

Ethically, I'm against it. I think she is, too, but we will talk in an hour when we see her. I'm so sad. She will be, too. 

Right now we have a home for Ellie til August. 

How would you advise her? I am not going to tell her what to do. Her cat, her decision. But I'm just sad with so much loss and transition, she will have to make this decision.  

[Chris in VA]

Oh--the CC part is just that I would appreciate prayers. 

[Selkie]

Could she find another place to live? How much would it cost to get out of her lease?

ETA: Also, there are rubber claw caps called Soft Paws that prevent cats from damaging furniture. Any chance she could work something out with the landlord by agreeing to have her kitty wear Soft Paws?

Edited October 15, 2018 by Selkie

[Chris in VA]

Thank you so much for the suggestion. I think Ellie would chew tbem off but maybe worth a try. I would have to have our foster cat-mom have them put on. 

[Lanny]

We have cats and we have dogs and we have had furniture damaged by both, over the years. I am VIOLENTLY OPPOSED to Declawing of Cats.  That is fine, if one can be absolutely positive that they will never escape from the apartment or house.  However, one cannot be 100% sure about that.  If a Declawed Cat were to be outside, they would be  defenseless. 

[Selkie]

10 minutes ago, Chris in VA said:

Thank you so much for the suggestion. I think Ellie would chew tbem off but maybe worth a try. I would have to have our foster cat-mom have them put on. 

Some vets or groomers will put them on for you, too.

[TechWife]

I am against declawing cats. Is it possible for her to rehome the cat and then adopt another one that was declawed by a previous owner? It would be sad and hard, but it's an option that provides a home for both her current cat and another cat.

Another option is to find another place to live. I find the requirement to declaw unreasonable. If the landlord is allowing pets, they need to realize all that it entails. Dogs are as likely to ruin furniture, IMO, as cats are. 

[almondbutterandjelly]

I would find another place to live that accepted cats with claws.

[I talk to the trees]

I realize that this is a dramatic and expensive option, but could your dd offer to pay for storage of the current furnishings and provide her own? That way, kitty can keep her claws and the landlord can keep his furniture!

[TechWife]

6 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

I feel like this is wading into some deep end of some pool, but what is the drama with declawing cats beyond the fact that they can’t scratch to defend themselves if they escape?  Or is that such a big issue for some people it’s a no go?

 

Scratching is a normal cat behavior. Cats should be expected to act like cats. There are ways to channel the scratching behavior, such as providing appropriate scratching posts at the cats preferred angles as well as toys. There are ways to deter the behavior, such as placing double sided tape or foil on a surface (most cats don't like foil, although there's always that one...) and applying a commercially available deterrent to furniture or carpet.Declawing cats is actually a partial toe amputation. It's like cutting off the tip of your finger or toe, not just a removal of a toe nail. Morally speaking, I believe this should not be done for convenience. Cats who develop arthritis need their claws to help them balance when they are gaining their footing after first standing up. This is especially true if a cat is overweight (no, cats should not be overweight, but that is a different issue). Cats do use their claws for self defense, so a cat without claws is largely defenseless, unless they can get close enough to their predator to bite. Not all predators are outside.

[thessa516]

19 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

I feel like this is wading into some deep end of some pool, but what is the drama with declawing cats beyond the fact that they can’t scratch to defend themselves if they escape?  Or is that such a big issue for some people it’s a no go?

 

Declawing is essentially a bone amputation, not merely a nail removal. It some places it's outlawed as cruelty to animals. Many vets won't even perform the surgery any longer.

[TechWife]

Just now, Arctic Mama said:

Oh is that all?  I see your concerns, I was thinking there was something beyond that.  We never saw any big difference with our clawed vs declawed cats in terms of behavior indoors or out, honestly.  

 

... What predators would be inside a house?  I’m drawing a blank as to how my mom or me qualified, despite being the keepers of the dreaded congestive heart failure medication ?

Other animals and people of all ages are predators that can be found inside the house. Cats can also become trapped and their claws can be tools for them to use (to get out of that proverbial paper bag).

I guess I don't think partial toe amputation is something to be taken lightly when in reality it is an expected behavior.  Honestly, if it was called that, fewer people would see it as acceptable. Many vets no longer provide this service and shelters don't adopt out cats to people they know are planning an amputation.

[TechWife]

5 minutes ago, Thatboyofmine said:

'Declawing' really needs to be changed to 'amputation' or something.  The word is deceiving and sounds harmless. It's not.  It's like if someone cut off both our ankles.  Yes, we'd eventually learn to walk that way but it would damage our limbs and cause injuries to the tissue that is touching the ground.  

We posted at the same time.

If I didn't want to keep my nails clipped, I could cut off my fingertips - sounds like an extreme solution to an easily remedied problem,  and it is.

Edited October 15, 2018 by TechWife

[unsinkable]

2 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

Are something like Softpaws an option?

This seems like something cats themselves invented to get the humans close enough to scratch them easier.

Chris, I hope you can find a solution.

[mumto2]

Not sure where to post this......safe journey tonight and I hope everything with your day tomorrow goes smoothly.

Sending prayers that your dd ends up happy with her living arrangements.  It is really good you read the lease so she can make decisions.

[ktgrok]

I am VERY against declawing. VERY. It's very painful for the cat at least in the short term, and possibly the long term (we are becoming aware that phantom pain, etc is likely). 

That said, if you can't find either another apartment for DD OR another home for the cat, than I'd declaw rather than take the cat to a shelter. Lesser of all evils. 

If she does end up doing it, look for a vet that provides serious pain control. Where I worked we did maybe one declaw or so a year, for animals with owners who had bleeding disorders and such. We would have the cat come in the night before and put a fentanyl pain patch on them (it takes hours to really kick in, so you had to do it the night before for it to be working well when they woke up after anesthesia the next day). We also gave them IV pain meds I think...and ketoprofen injections I think. (it's been a while and like I said, we did very few of them). All that adds to the expense as well. I think we used laser as there was less bleeding, but if I remember right there was some controversy that it may heal more slowly with the laser. So she'd need to look into that. It is VERY important that the cat be kept quiet, and NOT allowed to jump down from high places for a week afterwards at least. Or they can reopen the incisions and healing time starts all over again. 

As others said, it is an amputation. Not to be done lightly, but I suppose if it comes down to amputation or a shelter/euthanasia, obviously amputation is better. 

[hippiemamato3]

I would absolutely NOT declaw the cat; it's the same as removing part of your toes. Extremely painful. Isn't CC "Conservative Christian?" This isn't a religious post so maybe I have the wrong abbreviation...

[Lang Syne Boardie]

33 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

I would absolutely NOT declaw the cat; it's the same as removing part of your toes. Extremely painful. Isn't CC "Conservative Christian?" This isn't a religious post so maybe I have the wrong abbreviation...

 

On these boards, CC can mean...

Christian Content

Community College

Classical Conversations

 

The OP said the CC was in reference to a prayer request. I'm with you on the confusion - when I read the thread title, I thought, "Well, I'm a Christian who believes God made cats to have claws, so my religious opinion is that the cat should keep its claws."

[hippiemamato3]

4 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

On these boards, CC can mean...

Christian Content

Community College

Classical Conversations

 

The OP said the CC was in reference to a prayer request. I'm with you on the confusion - when I read the thread title, I thought, "Well, I'm a Christian who believes God made cats to have claws, so my religious opinion is that the cat should keep its claws."

Haha me too!!

[hippiemamato3]

1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said:

Oh is that all?  I see your concerns, I was thinking there was something beyond that.  We never saw any big difference with our clawed vs declawed cats in terms of behavior indoors or out, honestly.  Who knew this had become such a thing?  I suppose it’s like ear and tail docking in that regard.

 

... What predators would be inside a house?  I’m drawing a blank as to how my mom or me qualified, despite being the keepers of the dreaded congestive heart failure medication ?

It's not at all an "is that all?" It's cruel and painful - it's an amputation of part of the toes. If you don't want a cat with claws, you shouldn't get a cat.

[SKL]

At first I thought maybe CC meant cat content ....

I think she should start out asking for an exception if she promises to pay for those mittens and maybe (if that is not enough) negotiate a bigger pet deposit or arrange insurance or otherwise contract to pay for any pet damage.  Also what about covering all the furniture for the duration of the lease?

If that doesn't work, hopefully she has time to look at other options.  Does the landlord have any unfurnished apartments available?

Failing those, I would not say an absolute no to a declawed cat.  But I wonder if, given that she has been away from the cat for some time anyway, it might make sense to adopt a cat that is already declawed?

My folks' cat was declawed.  Yes, it was uncomfortable at first, but in the long run it was fine.  It did sneak out sometimes and my dad would lure it back in with tuna fish.  Annoying, but unless you live in a rather wild place, there aren't that many predators of a full-grown cat.

[PeppermintPattie]

We adopted a cat that was declawed - not something we would have ever done to him ourselves - and he was king of the neighborhood. He had no trouble fighting off all the other cats, catching birds, and climbing fences. 

When he was around 16, he started losing more cat fights than he won, to the tune of a $500 vet bill per fight. We started keeping him inside then, and he lived 4 more years.

I hope your dd finds a great place to live next year for both her and the cat!

[mamaraby]

We’ve done Softpaws in the past, but found they never stayed on as long as they said they would. Then they became annoying because we had to put them on so often.

I think humans need to be careful when they say declawing didn’t bother their cat. We don’t really understand fully what cats feel since none of us are cats, but we do know that when they are in pain, the signs can be so subtle. I would err on the “I’m not in the body, so I’m not qualified to say there is no pain” side of things and not declaw. It would not be an ethical choice for me.

[Matryoshka]

I would never declaw a cat.  We just trim their nails with a clipper (so, it is just like trimming human nails).  If you keep up with that, even if they scratch they don't damage stuff.  We do still have scratching posts to encourage any scratching in that direction, and the claws do get sharp again, but you just have to keep up with it.  

It's much easier that trimming dog nails because they're fairly transparent and it's easy to stay away from the part with nerves and blood.  My dog's nails are black and it stresses me out - him I end up bringing somewhere.

[Ellie]

7 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

I feel like this is wading into some deep end of some pool, but what is the drama with declawing cats beyond the fact that they can’t scratch to defend themselves if they escape?  Or is that such a big issue for some people it’s a no go?

Because when a cat is declawed, it's his whole first knuckle that is removed. I would call that inhumane.

[Ellie]

6 hours ago, hippiemamato3 said:

I would absolutely NOT declaw the cat; it's the same as removing part of your toes. Extremely painful. Isn't CC "Conservative Christian?" This isn't a religious post so maybe I have the wrong abbreviation...

A few years ago, some members were, um, offended because they opened some posts and the posters were talking about Christian stuff and they didn't expect it. So some people now will warn everyone that there's "Christian content." Which is also why some people will use "puppy content" or "vacation content" just to be a little silly, lol.

[katilac]

Am I the only one who can't imagine that they're actually going to check? What does the paperwork say - the cat must be declawed or . . . what? 

If the cat is not known for scratching walls/furniture, I'd be very tempted to just take my chances. She'd have to be prepared to write off the entire deposit if they find out, not just the pet deposit, but the declawing costs money as well. 

Also, make sure it is actually written in the lease, perhaps it is not. 

[Harriet Vane]

I'm with Katie on this one. Move in with the cat intact. Don't talk about it. Don't mention it. Pay for any damage when she moves out. End of story.

[Terabith]

We did declaw a cat once.  I'm generally opposed to it, but this cat in question for some reason did not have the ability to retract her claws, and she was very clumsy.  So every time she jumped into a person's lap, she would slip and dig her claws in.  I have a number of seriously nasty scars from damage she did absolutely unintentionally, and both my husband and I needed stitches a couple times.  We just put up with it until I got pregnant, but we absolutely could not in good conscience have this (very sweet) cat who caused such tremendous damage to people around a newborn, and even the vet agreed very quickly when he saw the wounds we had.  We used lots of pain medication, and she never showed any evidence of distress, but of course, I can't know.  

I have owned a great many other cats, however, and have not declawed any of them.  

I'm also on team "they are very unlikely to check."  I know that might not be the most honest thing to do, but I probably would just not mention it and hope for the best (and use slipcovers, provide scratching posts, and keep kitty nails trimmed). 

[Murphy101]

I’m generally okay with cat front declaw when necessary. Like it or not, there’s some cats that nothing seems to deter them from the furniture or wall. And I think front declaw is better than killing them off because they can’t get or keep a home due to tearing everything up. So dead cat or cat with front declaw seems an easy enough decision to me. 

But most cats really aren’t that terrible about it. A bit of training and deterring usually does the trick.

I don’t usually declaw my cats. But over the years there’s been a couple that I did declaw because they just wouldn’t stop shredding stuff in the house.

[KrissiK]

On 10/15/2018 at 11:50 AM, Chris in VA said:

Oh--the CC part is just that I would appreciate prayers. 

Well, after reading your post, I thought CC just meant Cat Content.?

I have no advice. I am against declawing, myself, but do not force my views on anyone.