Reviews of LOE Foundations A & B (And let's talk cursive first!)

[TheAttachedMama]

Hi Everyone,

Xposted on pre-k board.

Have you used Foundations A & B?   If so, could you please review it?  I actually own All About Reading and was planning on using that in combination with the "I See Sam" readers to teach my kindergartner to read this year.   He was doing great last year with reading (using those same two components), but lately he has been complaining that he wants more games in school and that school is  "too hard".  To make things easier, I basically started over from scratch so he could review all of the phonograms and words he can decode.   But I really think he would enjoy more games and jumping around.  

I tried to pull out the supplemental "Ziggy File Folder Game" add on, but the games are not really very much fun.    With my older kids, I had more brain power to be creative and think up ways to make school really fun.   (Jump on the phonogram I call out, etc.)  However, I find myself multi-tasking and switching between subjects SO much this year, that I really am not doing a great job thinking up spontaneous games to review phonograms.  This weary mama needs open and go fun!   :)   Does such a thing exist?  

I was looking at Foundations longingly the other night, and thinking that might be a solution.   It seems so nice and complete...and fun!   Is it worth the money?   Or am I just having a "grass is greener on the other side" feeling?

FYI...Dyslexia runs in our family.   While I haven't seen too many signs of that my youngest yet, I would still prefer to use an OG program with him.   Just adding that in case anyone has any other suggestions on how to add "fun" back into our phonics lessons.  

Also, what do you think of the cursive first philosophy?   My 5 year old actually has pretty decent fine motor abilities for a boy his age.   I think it is because he has been sitting at the table trying to copy the older kids "doing school" since he was 2.   However, he hasn't had much in the way of handwriting instruction yet.   He can "kind of" write his capital letters and "kind of" write his numbers.  (He mostly traces over what I write with a highlighter.)   Cursive was a REAL game changer for my dyslexic 12 year old son.   He writes everything in cursive now, and it helps him from reversing his letters, etc.   (No other public school kid can read his writing---but he is at least writing fluently and quickly now!)   I am so tempted to try the cursive-first philosophy with my 5 year old son, but I hate experimenting.  What if it turns out badly and he is confused?   I would love to hear someone argue in defense of the cursive first philosophy or against it!   If you have a strong opinion either way, please tell me what helped you come to that opinion.  :)

 

[Lori D.]

Can't help with the cursive first question.

For learning to read, some mom-free "fun" things:
- Maybe back off again on formal programs and put on Letter Factory, Talking Words, Storybook Factory, and other Leap Frog videos and let "the frog" do his magic?
- And let DS explore/play at the Starfall website?
- And explore/play with Reader Rabbit? -- that was a HUGE help for our DS#2 (VSL / stealth dyslexia) as he worked to clear the hurdle of learning to read

For games as supplements to AAR:
- One of these reproducibles, perhaps? (no personal experience): 10 Ready to Go File Folder Games for Alphabet, and the next level of this; Instant File Folder Games for Reading; Basic Phonics G.A.M.E.S.; Carson-Dellosa Language Arts File Folder Games
- Happy Phonics is a home-made program with games and activities, some of which we had fun with (although I think it is WAY over-priced for photo-copied items that you have to cut out yourself, which is much more mom-intensive than you may have time for)
- Python Path is a board game we played when DSs were learning to sound out simple words
- Tabletop Phonics Games looks interesting; no personal experience

Full phonics/learn to read program
- Sing, Spell, Read, and Write -- no personal experience, but I seem to recall hearing that this has games in it; expensive, and a complete program that is most likely not O-G based

Edited October 12, 2018 by Lori D.

[ocolateblip]

I loved foundations. I thought it was really engaging and fun. The workbook pages are neat and colorful. I really liked everything about it (except the price), but we ended up dropping it because my daughter didn’t need the level of reinforcement it offered, so we went to something cheaper. It was very thorough. 

I really fell hard for the “cursive first” philosophy and we tried it, but we ended up switching to print. It was just so much easier for my daughter to write the words she saw when she was reading than it was for her to remember how to connect the letters and what they were supposed to look like.

[maize]

Cursive first is very common in Europe, millions of children in France and Germany have learned to write first in cursive. I wouldn't worry about it somehow confusing him.

[sweet2ndchance]

I was in the same boat you are, my 6th kindergartner and feeling to brain drained to come up with spontaneous fun activities like I did when I had my 1st kindergartner 15 years ago. I had used AAR/AAS years ago when my now 12 year old was 4 or 5 and all I remember about it was how I hated keeping up with all those tiles. It became drudgery to bring out the letter tile board, make sure they were all there etc so over time I stopped getting them out.

So for my last kindergartner, I decided to go with LOE and I'm so glad I did. Little Dude loves it. He actually asks to do the activities outside of school time. Having someone else think up the activities is such a relief for me after years and years of doing it myself. There aren't millions of little pieces to keep up with. Overall, we are pretty happy with the program and plan to continue it all the way through.

Coming from a Spalding/SWR/AAR/AAS background, I felt confident that I didn't need everything that the LOE kits come with so I only purchased the PDF teacher's manual and the PDF student book. That was worked fine thus far for us. I already had a set of phonogram flashcards so we just use those instead of ordering new ones. We already had a lined white board so I didn't order the LOE whiteboad. We have a moveable alphabet that I plan to use in place of the phonogram game tiles (or we might skip or replace those activities depending on my mood that day). I have been able to teach just fine from the teacher's manual without the reference and analysis cards. I did end up buying the Doodling Dragons book, second hand on amazon when I saw it for a good price but my son doesn't seem to care for it so we tend to skip the parts of the lesson that say "read x page in Doodling Dragons" I doubt we will get the Whistling Whales and Knitting Knights books. I would just have him use the app but we don't have an ipad. I really wish they would bring back the android app so ds could use his tablet for it. . Ds likes card games so I am considering purchasing the phonogram game cards soon. But we have made it almost halfway through Level A without them and I don't think they have been called for in a lesson yet. Oh and we made our own tactile cards with cardstock, salt and glue. If I had lots of littles still and would get more than one use out of them, I might have bought them too but seeing as this is my last kindy, I couldn't justify the cost for us.

Altogether I think I've spent just under $50 on level A. We will likely need Level B in January and I plan to do the same, buy pdfs of the teacher's manual, student book and the separate readers for B (the readers for A are part of the student workbook). It should only come up to $50ish again which is a lot easier for us to come up with than the price of the full sets.

On the Cursive first, I don't have a strong opinion on it. Some of my kiddos did cursive first, some didn't. The ones that did do cursive first did so because they wanted to and having read about the advantages of doing cursive first I was willing to try it with them. None of them write in full cursive or full print now as teenagers/young adults. They write an eclectic but very legible mix of both, just like I do. I'd say whatever works for a given child. If you want to try cursive first, go for it, if you'd rather stick with print first, there is nothing wrong with that either. I let Little Dude decide if he wanted to learn print or cursive first, he chose print so that is what I ordered his workbook in.

[Bluegoat]

I used cursive first with my eldest.  It worked well and there were really no problems with it.  I didn't with my other kids mainly because they all started trying to print on their own, but my youngest is a lot younger and I may well do cursive first with her.  I found it was in many ways easier to do than printing for the kids.

I don't know much about the reading program you are using or looking at, but I am wondering how old your student is and how much time you are spending on lessons.  If he is really only 5 or so, it might just be that he doesn't need as much time as you are spending.

[JaLeSherman]

I have used Logic of English from the beginning so I don't have much experience outside of it, so I'll try to be as fair as I can be in my answers to you. We are also about to start D. 

A is pure phonics of the alphabet and NOT in order, which I loved a lot. Like the phonogram 'd' was one of the first letters introduced, and 'b' was introduced towards the end, completely keeping the ever common 'b' 'd' swap up at bay, at least for her. The teaching of the writing strokes is amazing, but after it starts getting towards dictation (towards the end of B), my daughter hated it and I have changed up the writing a bit. 

B is the start of blends and digraphs with silent e. It starts focusing on sentence structure at the very basic core (capital letter at the beginning, punctuation, raise your voice for a sentence that ends in a question). Like A, there are a mess ton of games and you really don't need much beyond the flash cards. Sometimes it's hopscotch to the right sound, hide-and-search for the correct sound in the room, flyswatter the correct sounds, bingo, tic-tac-toe sort of games. They also have cards in a smaller size for card games like "Fox" and "Memory". We liked the cards for drill, but my daughter is much more active than a still child so the hide-and-search games were favorites. 

Also the readers they use with that program are the BOB books if that makes any influence on your decision. 

I elected not to do cursive first for her. I felt it was easier to build up hand strength with simple strokes you could stop in the middle with ease if needed. Cursive is a little more difficult to pick up in the middle of letter formation. Plus, I almost always write in cursive so while she doesn't write it, she reads my shopping lists to me at the store which are written in cursive. I plan on teaching cursive later when she can write a couple sentences with ease with the rules she does know about spacing, punctuation, indention, etc. But she's started asking so I may teach her sooner. So I don't really have a dog in this fight, but it's the reason I went with manuscript first. Hope this helps. 

[HomeAgain]

We did not use LOE.  It looked like more than what my child wanted or needed at the age.

However, we did find a good compromise between Z-B style and cursive first.  We did D'nealian, so each stroke was worked on individually still, but the shape of each letter was well known by the time he started joining the letters together in cursive a year or so later.  He didn't have to learn an entirely new script when transitioning, only a few lowercase letters (b, f, r, s, x, z) and a handful more in uppercase.

[TheAttachedMama]

On 10/13/2018 at 2:20 AM, JaLeSherman said:

 Also the readers they use with that program are the BOB books if that makes any influence on your decision. 
 

Could you tell me which level they start the BOB books?

[Chelli]

55 minutes ago, TheAttachedMama said:

Could you tell me which level they start the BOB books?

 

They are only used as suggested supplementary reading for extra practice (the lesson plans tell you which Bob book to read if you wish) starting  in level B. The LOE readers are the only reading books required.

[smarson]

This is my 3rd time through Foundations A and I still love it!  It probably helps that this kid really wants to learn and is super eager to do school but it worked really well with my older two as well.  I’ve done A-D with my 1st, finishing up D with my 2nd (completed all the previous levels) and am now wrapping up a with my K’er.  I have learned how to tweak things if necessary, where to add supplemental review, what to skip, etc.  I think it’s a fabulous program and I recommend it to everyone.  The lessons in D get long and a bit tedious but are still,very much worth it.

As for cursive, I did choose to go the cursive route with all three so far and I’m very pleased with the results. They all have wonderful penmanship and the cursive really did help with that b-d confusion.  My daughter has now mostly switched to manuscript which I don’t mind. I have her do her copy work in cursive and let her do whatever she wants whenever else she’s writing.  I have simply made sure she forms her letters correctly since I never actually taught her how to write manuscript (and not all the letters are formed intuitively). My 2nd still does everything in cursive just to solidify it but I’m sure he’ll want to switch soon enough.  

I cant say enough good things about this program!

[JaLeSherman]

On 10/14/2018 at 8:58 AM, TheAttachedMama said:

Could you tell me which level they start the BOB books?

About 1/5 of the way through B they suggested (wasn't required, but I got them anyway) starting with BOB Readers 1. There's also a suggested order that they give you in the Teacher's Manual so that the rules they are taught in the program correspond with the reader for additional practice.  Now that we've finished C, we have gone through Set 2 and Set 3 in different order to the rules. There was an additional suggested reading list on their website (https://www.logicofenglish.com/foundations/book-suggestions) and we got the "Now I'm Reading!" sets they suggested on Ebay for about $4 used. I personally printed off the suggested additional reading list (that list has B and C included) and taped it to the cover of each of my Teacher Manuals to stay on top of.

You certainly don't have to have them, but I was okay with buying them for additional reading practice on top of the readers that come with the program because there are three more children behind my oldest that will need to eventually learn how to read. But it is suggested frequently through out the course and of course, even further as you can see on the suggestion list.

Sorry it took so long to get back to you --- been crazy here!