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15 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Do you have friends that you can be totally honest with?  

I don't think people who seem happily normal (whatever that is, I don't even know what that looks like anymore) are living a farce or being dishonest.  I think humans suck and we are usually right to listen to our instinct to be very hesitant about being completely open with them.  Don't get me wrong.  I know I need to love my fellow humans too.  But I don't think loving them means giving them a knife to stab in my back either.  Or more concerning, my husband's or kids backs.

But having people you can call at 5am when you can't sleep because your whole world is falling apart and they will meet you for coffee and a good cry. Or who understand that being in a dark place can lead to some dark humor and laugh with you? No joke, I'd leave my husband before I'd sacrifice those friends. I'm blessed to have 4 of them.  I have no idea what I ever did to deserve any one of them, but I do my best to be one of them too. But to people who aren't those 4 people? They probably think I live some charmed life of marital or parenting or financial bliss.  I don't. And am unlikely to ever have it regardless of what I do. So I'm trying to find joy where I can and that's likely all someone sees on my FB page or in the pew or during polite social conversation.

So do you have someone IRL you can be totally honest with and who can be totally honest with you?

Yes. One of them sent me a lovely text yesterday that brought tears to my eyes.

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10 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

And so far 40s suck.

I thought if we were responsible and kind and did the right things we were supposed to be "settled" by our 40s and after 25 years of marriage.

That was total bull shirt propaganda.

I may be a bit bitter about that.

Or a lot.

Ugh, yes to the bolded. 

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I had to stop reading any sort of Christian parenting book years ago. I couldn't take all the writing that implied it was the parents' fault if (non-special needs) kids weren't behaving. In fact, I usually can't get myself to read any secular parenting books either. I know there are many poorly behaved kids out there who would shape up if their parents took their job seriously, but my difficult child isn't difficult because I'm lazy. It's just the personality he was born with. I seriously think God wanted me to have my second (much easier) son so DH and I could see that it wasn't us - we aren't failures, some kids are just more work.

OP, you are often in my thoughts. In fact I have referred to your daughter as my difficult son's older sister. I will continue to pray for all of you and for you to feel and rest in God's peace.

 

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19 minutes ago, JumpyTheFrog said:

I had to stop reading any sort of Christian parenting book years ago. I couldn't take all the writing that implied it was the parents' fault if (non-special needs) kids weren't behaving. In fact, I usually can't get myself to read any secular parenting books either. I know there are many poorly behaved kids out there who would shape up if their parents took their job seriously, but my difficult child isn't difficult because I'm lazy. It's just the personality he was born with. I seriously think God wanted me to have my second (much easier) son so DH and I could see that it wasn't us - we aren't failures, some kids are just more work.

OP, you are often in my thoughts. In fact I have referred to your daughter as my difficult son's older sister. I will continue to pray for all of you and for you to feel and rest in God's peace.

 

Boy, isn't it a good thing that God didn't place both of our kids in the same family?

And yes, I stopped reading parenting books too. Because they were just so discouraging. I wasn't "putting up with" or "tolerating" bad behavior. There comes a point when you've done all you can do, and the behavior is still there. And boy am I ever glad that I had three other "normal" kids,

I felt this week the strong impression that God was telling me to just step back and let him handle it. Fearsome. Frightening. But he loves her far more than I do. And he knows what will bring her around. I'm praying for his mercy.

 

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20 minutes ago, JumpyTheFrog said:

I had to stop reading any sort of Christian parenting book years ago. I couldn't take all the writing that implied it was the parents' fault if (non-special needs) kids weren't behaving. 

 

Because God, who must be as perfect as a parent can be, has only perfectly behaved kids in all of us right?

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First, get it out of your head that there is any accurate description of the word "normal" especially when it comes to families. Each one  is unique.
Second, take a DEEP breath. In through your nose, out through your mouth. Now, again. And again. Close your eyes for a minute and just focus on breathing. 
That's it. Just breathe. I have not great wisdom to share other than BREATHE.

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21 hours ago, Patty Joanna said:

 

I agree that people don't share the hard stuff, but I don't think it can all be called dishonesty.  When we were in our toughest times, I had no qualms about talking with people who knew and loved my son and me about what was going on.  But I didn't put much (if any) of the struggle on FB because that is public, it is forever, and it is not ALL my story.  I wanted to leave space for my son to come through everything without having future employers nosing around in his junior high/high school past.  (Ironic timing, this post.). I wanted him to have a chance to become the best person he could be without my angst and his difficulties following him through all the days of his life.  And furthermore, had I posted everything I knew about what had gone on in his life, I could *easily* have destroyed the life of another person, who is now finding *her* way in life.  Believe me, some days, I *wanted* to destroy her.  But the better angels prevailed and I am thankful that they did.  

I'm *very* glad I didn't post bad stuff about our situation.  I don't think it makes me dishonest--I didn't pretend things were rosy and sunny.  I just didn't overshare the stuff that could come back to bite anyone but me.  

 

((((PattyJoanna)))))))

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17 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Boy, isn't it a good thing that God didn't place both of our kids in the same family?

And yes, I stopped reading parenting books too. Because they were just so discouraging. I wasn't "putting up with" or "tolerating" bad behavior. There comes a point when you've done all you can do, and the behavior is still there. And boy am I ever glad that I had three other "normal" kids,

I felt this week the strong impression that God was telling me to just step back and let him handle it. Fearsome. Frightening. But he loves her far more than I do. And he knows what will bring her around. I'm praying for his mercy.

 

I know right?  That is always a head scratcher for me with a strong willed kid.  Anytime someone says that about an older teen I just think 'you clearly have ever encountered this type of personality'.  Generally 'letting go' works best.  But that can be excruciating. I know it is difficult and I am sorry.

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1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

I felt this week the strong impression that God was telling me to just step back and let him handle it. 

 

I hope this isn't overstepping any boundaries, but I feel/think the same thing. Let me share a recent story...

In December my parents and I took the kids and DH skiing for the first time. The ski area didn't have many trails open and at the end of the day my 8 year old wanted to go to a real trail instead of the baby bunny hill. If the regular bunny hill was open, he'd have gotten to try that, but it wasn't. So I agreed to take him up for the last run. It was a mistake. He got scared and fell on purpose because he didn't know how to slow down enough. We needed ski patrol to bring him down because he got injured. This was all less than two weeks before his first ever gymnastics meet. I felt so guilty, like it was all my fault because I shouldn't have agreed to take him up.

We waited all spring for his knee to get better. The sprain healed, but he still couldn't straighten his leg all the way. This means constant score deductions in gymnastics. A trip to another doctor this summer revealed a bone fragment blocking the knee from closing (like something blocking the hinge in a door). The only way to remove it would be to replace his (healed) ACL because it is attached to the bone fragment. The guilt, which had started to subside, came back on full force. I started to feel like it was all my fault and he'd spend his entire gymnastics career with lower scores (and his whole life with a leg that won't straighten) because I was so foolish. I couldn't stop beating myself up over it.

Over the course of a week (where I asked a friend to pray for me) I began to realize that the guilt I was feeling was some sort of spiritual attack. I had been foolish, but I hadn't sinned by agreeing to his request to try a harder trail. I began to realize that it wasn't right of me to blame myself and feel guilty when God didn't. In other words, by blaming myself I was more-or-less acting as if God's judgment of the situation (that I didn't sin) was wrong. I decided that if God didn't see me as guilty, that I better let go of the guilt and blame. I started to feel much better.

I know that the guilt will continue to come and go sometimes. Even now I am starting to tear up a little. However, it is within minor levels, rather than "I ruined his life" levels.

Anyone who has read your posts over the years knows you have poured your heart and energy into parenting her. Most people never put as much work in (unless their kids have special needs of some sort). You ran your leg of the relay race and now it is time to pass the baton on to her while you rest.

 

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I know right?  That is always a head scratcher for me with a strong willed kid.  

 

Yup, some people seem to think normal pushback is "strong-willed." They have no idea.

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27 minutes ago, JumpyTheFrog said:

 

I hope this isn't overstepping any boundaries, but I feel/think the same thing. Let me share a recent story...

In December my parents and I took the kids and DH skiing for the first time. The ski area didn't have many trails open and at the end of the day my 8 year old wanted to go to a real trail instead of the baby bunny hill. If the regular bunny hill was open, he'd have gotten to try that, but it wasn't. So I agreed to take him up for the last run. It was a mistake. He got scared and fell on purpose because he didn't know how to slow down enough. We needed ski patrol to bring him down because he got injured. This was all less than two weeks before his first ever gymnastics meet. I felt so guilty, like it was all my fault because I shouldn't have agreed to take him up.

We waited all spring for his knee to get better. The sprain healed, but he still couldn't straighten his leg all the way. This means constant score deductions in gymnastics. A trip to another doctor this summer revealed a bone fragment blocking the knee from closing (like something blocking the hinge in a door). The only way to remove it would be to replace his (healed) ACL because it is attached to the bone fragment. The guilt, which had started to subside, came back on full force. I started to feel like it was all my fault and he'd spend his entire gymnastics career with lower scores (and his whole life with a leg that won't straighten) because I was so foolish. I couldn't stop beating myself up over it.

Over the course of a week (where I asked a friend to pray for me) I began to realize that the guilt I was feeling was some sort of spiritual attack. I had been foolish, but I hadn't sinned by agreeing to his request to try a harder trail. I began to realize that it wasn't right of me to blame myself and feel guilty when God didn't. In other words, by blaming myself I was more-or-less acting as if God's judgment of the situation (that I didn't sin) was wrong. I decided that if God didn't see me as guilty, that I better let go of the guilt and blame. I started to feel much better.

I know that the guilt will continue to come and go sometimes. Even now I am starting to tear up a little. However, it is within minor levels, rather than "I ruined his life" levels.

Anyone who has read your posts over the years knows you have poured your heart and energy into parenting her. Most people never put as much work in (unless their kids have special needs of some sort). You ran your leg of the relay race and now it is time to pass the baton on to her while you rest.

 

 

Yup, some people seem to think normal pushback is "strong-willed." They have no idea.

Thanks for that story. The guilt and stuff comes and goes, but like my therapist said, "You did the best you could at the time with the information you had. " 

and yeah, hearing someone go, "I had to take Janie's iPad away for the afternoon until she made her bed. She's so strongwilled." Makes me (inwardly) roll my eyes. Yeah, I gave up on making my kid make up her bed. Because in her mind, it was an attack on her autonomy to make a bed because mom said to, and she'd rather never have an iPad for the rest of her life before she'd make the darn bed. And if I took the iPad, it was unfair and stupid and bullying and abusive...

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19 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Thanks for that story. The guilt and stuff comes and goes, but like my therapist said, "You did the best you could at the time with the information you had. " 

and yeah, hearing someone go, "I had to take Janie's iPad away for the afternoon until she made her bed. She's so strongwilled." Makes me (inwardly) roll my eyes. Yeah, I gave up on making my kid make up her bed. Because in her mind, it was an attack on her autonomy to make a bed because mom said to, and she'd rather never have an iPad for the rest of her life before she'd make the darn bed. And if I took the iPad, it was unfair and stupid and bullying and abusive...

That made me laugh because I understand it all too well.  My son was 4 when he refused to obey our request about letting the dog out of the yard.  I will never forget how he stayed in his room all day (his consequence for letting the dog out AGAIN)  and as soon as he was allowed out he immediately went and did it again.  I could. not. believe it.  And really it seemed to be a stage he went through and I am not trying to compare my situation with yours but I DO understand how some kids just cannot be made to do what they don't want to do.  

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1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

That made me laugh because I understand it all too well.  My son was 4 when he refused to obey our request about letting the dog out of the yard.  I will never forget how he stayed in his room all day (his consequence for letting the dog out AGAIN)  and as soon as he was allowed out he immediately went and did it again.  I could. not. believe it.  And really it seemed to be a stage he went through and I am not trying to compare my situation with yours but I DO understand how some kids just cannot be made to do what they don't want to do.  

HEHE! I get it so much,

it all started the day they let the dog out of the yard. And that type of scenario plays out over and over and over again through the years.

 

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6 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

 

I felt this week the strong impression that God was telling me to just step back and let him handle it. Fearsome. Frightening. But he loves her far more than I do. And he knows what will bring her around. I'm praying for his mercy.

 

I heard a speaker talking about one of her adult children recently. She came to this point (above). When she was struggling with it, she felt like God was telling her, "Either I can handle it, or you can, but not both of us. So if you want me to handle it, you need to leave her in my hands and trust me." Now, by the way, they have a beautiful relationship, but it took a long time, because the daughter was very strong-willed and entrenched in a bad lifestyle. The mom had plenty of practice trusting God with her daughter, because it didn't look so promising from the outside. I know both the mom and the daughter. Pretty amazing situation; different from yours in some ways, but not so different in many others. ((((fairfarmhand))))

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Many hugs for you.  It is unbelievably hard.  And the judgment from others peeking through the window, certain they could/would mold different results,  is terribly painful.

Good mamas don’t all look alike.  Because each one has a very different job. You’ve done everything you can.  I join you in your prayers for your girl, and for mine, and for all the others who must live life the hardest ways possible.

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On 9/28/2018 at 5:33 AM, Murphy101 said:

Do you have friends that you can be totally honest with?  

But having people you can call at 5am when you can't sleep because your whole world is falling apart and they will meet you for coffee and a good cry. Or who understand that being in a dark place can lead to some dark humor and laugh with you? No joke, I'd leave my husband before I'd sacrifice those friends. I'm blessed to have 4 of them.  I have no idea what I ever did to deserve any one of them, but I do my best to be one of them too. But to people who aren't those 4 people? They probably think I live some charmed life of marital or parenting or financial bliss.  I don't. And am unlikely to ever have it regardless of what I do. So I'm trying to find joy where I can and that's likely all someone sees on my FB page or in the pew or during polite social conversation.

So do you have someone IRL you can be totally honest with and who can be totally honest with you?

 

This is sooo important. Having and being that kind of friend. The kind that will do life with you regardless of what life looks like at the moment.

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23 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

The hard got even worse over the weekend. I'm at the point where each additional issue doesn't really hurt any more. It's just a dull resignation. Kind of an aching sad versus the incredulous agony of last week.

Hugs to you. I’m sorry. 

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On 9/28/2018 at 7:33 AM, Murphy101 said:

Do you have friends that you can be totally honest with?  

<snip>

But having people you can call at 5am when you can't sleep because your whole world is falling apart and they will meet you for coffee and a good cry. Or who understand that being in a dark place can lead to some dark humor and laugh with you? No joke, I'd leave my husband before I'd sacrifice those friends. I'm blessed to have 4 of them.  I have no idea what I ever did to deserve any one of them, but I do my best to be one of them too. But to people who aren't those 4 people? They probably think I live some charmed life of marital or parenting or financial bliss.  I don't. And am unlikely to ever have it regardless of what I do. So I'm trying to find joy where I can and that's likely all someone sees on my FB page or in the pew or during polite social conversation.

So do you have someone IRL you can be totally honest with and who can be totally honest with you?

You are so fortunate to have those friends.  I though I had them until K's issues started showing up.  They all backed away.  Now, I only have my therapist to unload on.  There isn't a soul I can call when things get bad.  And it has pretty much eaten me alive.  My church started getting all icky conservative with a new (totally clueless about human suffering) pastor who gutted our service and social justice ministry but found the money for more statues.  And dh is not a talk things out kind of guy.  Coming here has pretty much been a life saver for me.  

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23 minutes ago, dirty ethel rackham said:

You are so fortunate to have those friends.  I though I had them until K's issues started showing up.  They all backed away.  Now, I only have my therapist to unload on.  There isn't a soul I can call when things get bad.  And it has pretty much eaten me alive.  My church started getting all icky conservative with a new (totally clueless about human suffering) pastor who gutted our service and social justice ministry but found the money for more statues.  And dh is not a talk things out kind of guy.  Coming here has pretty much been a life saver for me.  

I am so sorry. 

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On 9/27/2018 at 4:03 PM, MissLemon said:

I needed to hear this today.  Thank you.  My son isn't special needs exactly, (he's gifted), which makes him super quirky.  High IQ combined with immaturity = I can't leave him anywhere because he'll flip out when the other kids goof around and don't follow the rules for a game or activity.  If I had a dollar for every time an enrichment class instructor said "Miss Lemon? Could we speak to you about Kiddo?" Trying to find friends that he is happy with is hard.  He either relates better to the little kids or much older kids.  Kids at his age seem to confuse him.  He told me once "I don't know what to say to them".  Sometimes, I have no idea if I should keep trying to help him connect with other kids, or if I should just throw in the towel and let him be. 

*sigh*

 

I would encourage him to find friends without focusing on age. I made friends far more easily as a teen with younger kids or with adults. When I was 16 my friends ranged in age from 12 to 42. My BFF growing up was almost 2 years older than me and a grade ahead of me in school. There's nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with not having very many friends at all at any particular time.

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1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

The hard got even worse over the weekend. I'm at the point where each additional issue doesn't really hurt any more. It's just a dull resignation. Kind of an aching sad versus the incredulous agony of last week.

 

Is moving out completely impossible due to finances? My parents had to make one of my siblings move out right after they turned 19. It didn't solve all the problems but it made day-to-day life much easier and more relaxed. They did not give her any monetary support, it wasn't even a possibility, but she did already have a full-time job. 

What are you funding for this child that you can pull the plug on? Not many luxuries, iirc, but I'd pull basically everything. I believe you are paying for school tuition? If you are, consider taking the money planned for next semester and going to rent her a cheap apartment (now, not next semester). She will have this semester to start figuring things out for the future, which may or may not include school. It will be unfortunate if she has to drop out of school, but it will also not be your fault. 

I would move her into an apartment now even if I had to borrow money to do so (I'm not hard-core enough to just boot them out the door to stay with friends, but it can be a valid approach). You might be able to rent a single room in a house close to the school.

You can't fix this. It's not going to get better any time soon. You have to protect yourself and the rest of your family. I'm sorry it's so hard right now. 

 

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1 minute ago, fairfarmhand said:

She moved out over the weekend. She’s almost 21. She’s going o have to figure things out on her own. 

 

It is hard to watch adult children finding their way through life. I remind myself every so often that it's their path now. They have a right to make their own mistakes just as I made mine - and learn from them.

Hugs to you. I hope you can find some peace with this new arrangement.

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(((fairfarmhand)))

It’s tough to watch our young adults making bad choices and shifting blame. I know your situation has been especially challenging. I hope that she Will eventually come to understand what a good parent you are. 

From remembering past posts, I will comment on one thing. Be careful to monitor her communications with your younger daughter. 

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22 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

She moved out over the weekend. She’s almost 21. She’s going o have to figure things out on her own. 

 

I'm sorry that it seems to have happened in a negative and hurtful way, but I think it's a good thing all around. Once you get past some of the trauma of the weekend, things will start to improve and you will start feeling better. 

 

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1 hour ago, Ravin said:

 

I would encourage him to find friends without focusing on age. I made friends far more easily as a teen with younger kids or with adults. When I was 16 my friends ranged in age from 12 to 42. My BFF growing up was almost 2 years older than me and a grade ahead of me in school. There's nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with not having very many friends at all at any particular time.

Thank you. ?  We're casting our social net a little wider and hopefully the variety of people he will meet will help him feel fulfilled.  Honestly, he hasn't expressed any sort of lack or longing, hasn't been upset that he doesn't have a best friend.  He seems content, (I think? He can be so inscrutable).  It's all me fretting that I am not doing enough for him. ? 

But I will take your advice to heart, and the words of another board member, (I think it was @quark), who said they were doing their best to let the world fit their lives, rather than trying to fit into the world (something like that!).  

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On 10/2/2018 at 1:24 PM, Arctic Mama said:

It’s probably not going to fix everything, especially your worry about her, but I hope it gives you and the younger kids some day to day reprieve and enough of a breather from each other to function.  Big hug ?

It is going to be a good thing. The whole weekend was very traumatizing with many very ugly moments. Like visit your therapist on a monday morning traumatizing. But I can breathe in my house again. That is good.

On 10/2/2018 at 1:34 PM, Seasider too said:

(((fairfarmhand)))

It’s tough to watch our young adults making bad choices and shifting blame. I know your situation has been especially challenging. I hope that she Will eventually come to understand what a good parent you are. 

From remembering past posts, I will comment on one thing. Be careful to monitor her communications with your younger daughter. 

I plan on it, but really don't think that will be much of an issue. Big sis burned that bridge. Which is painful to watch. 

 

It will be easier when things settle down and we all get used to the new arrangement. 

I keep telling my dd16 that WE WILL behave with dignity and class. The truth will come out and we won't be the ones to look bad. I have taken a few moms into my confidence, those of kids who are within both of my girls' social circles so they can help their kids process the weirdness.

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20 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

It is going to be a good thing. The whole weekend was very traumatizing with many very ugly moments. Like visit your therapist on a monday morning traumatizing. But I can breathe in my house again. That is good.

I plan on it, but really don't think that will be much of an issue. Big sis burned that bridge. Which is painful to watch. 

 

It will be easier when things settle down and we all get used to the new arrangement. However, one painful thing is that she's not content to be gone. She's throwing a giant pity party and inviting all kinds of people. She's hosting big dramatic tell alls mostly consisting of twisted facts, distortions, and half-truths. So we keep hearing stuff and it's like it;s thrown back in our faces.

I keep telling my dd16 that WE WILL behave with dignity and class. The truth will come out and we won't be the ones to look bad. I have taken a few moms into my confidence, those of kids who are within both of my girls' social circles so they can help their kids process the weirdness.

Hang in there. You’ve done everything you can and you’ve been a great mom. This is probably for the best for all of you. She will learn some lessons about life. Some people have to learn everything the hard way. 

The truth always comes out. She can say whatever she wants. People will figure out for themselves that you were not the “bad guys”. It may take time, but it will come out.

For myself, I don’t give a lot of credence to young adults complaining about their parents when I have known the family for a long time. Hopefully, the people who know you will know what the reality is and will defend your good name.

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On 10/2/2018 at 3:36 PM, Arctic Mama said:

I’m sorry she’s being all ‘classy’ and ‘mature’ about this.  Ugh. Telling some of the other moms to give them some context was a really good idea.  Are your youngers holding up okay?

Yep. My other kids saw it all.

In some ways, though I feel it’s for the best. All 3 of my other kids saw for themselves what things really were. There will be no way to twist those events and make 20dd the victim. 

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2 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

It is going to be a good thing. The whole weekend was very traumatizing with many very ugly moments. Like visit your therapist on a monday morning traumatizing. But I can breathe in my house again. That is good.

I plan on it, but really don't think that will be much of an issue. Big sis burned that bridge. Which is painful to watch. 

 

It will be easier when things settle down and we all get used to the new arrangement. However, one painful thing is that she's not content to be gone. She's throwing a giant pity party and inviting all kinds of people. She's hosting big dramatic tell alls mostly consisting of twisted facts, distortions, and half-truths. So we keep hearing stuff and it's like it;s thrown back in our faces.

I keep telling my dd16 that WE WILL behave with dignity and class. The truth will come out and we won't be the ones to look bad. I have taken a few moms into my confidence, those of kids who are within both of my girls' social circles so they can help their kids process the weirdness.

 

A friend of mine recently had a similarly epic blow up and move out with her son who was just shy of 18. So far I've found it possible to continue to be a friend to my friend while still keeping a line of communication open to her DS, in which I take anything he said about family events with a block of salt. I hope your friends stay your friends and I also hope your DD is able to keep some social connections that are relatively unfraught, with people who can see through the BS but still care about her.

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54 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Yep. The image that hurts me is of my 10yo bawling and begging his sister to stop her hateful ranting in the front yard Friday night. 

In some ways, though I feel it’s for the best. All 3 of my other kids saw for themselves what things really were. There will be no way to twist those events and make 20dd the victim. 

 

Those in your “community” will see it, too. Time and truth walk hand in hand. 

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On 9/28/2018 at 3:39 PM, peacelovehomeschooling said:

I can honestly say that my 40s were solidly the worst decade of my life.  They were so horrible and so traumatic that I have lost memory of most of them (due to ptsd incurred during those years).  It feels like I woke up at 50 and had missed a whole decade of my life (except the trauma has remained as a constant reminder that I did "live" them).

I am very sorry that you feel the same way about your 40s.

 

Thank you. Really. I don’t know how I’d cope without friends who understand this. And yeah. I pray to god some day I can forget any of it. It’d be a blessed relief. 

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10 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

Yep. The image that hurts me is of my 10yo bawling and begging his sister to stop her hateful ranting in the front yard Friday night. 

In some ways, though I feel it’s for the best. All 3 of my other kids saw for themselves what things really were. There will be no way to twist those events and make 20dd the victim. 

Awww, I'm so sorry.  That must have been horrible. 

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8 hours ago, Seasider too said:

Thinking of you this evening - hope the week has brought you all some peace. 

Thank you. The situation isn’t any better but Home is a place of peace now and that means a lot. We’re grieving. But my dh and I are finally able to sleep at night. There’s a lot that I can’t post about. 

And yes, people are figuring things out and seeing the situation for what it is. That took way less time than I thought.

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1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

Thank you. The situation isn’t any better but Home is a place of peace now and that means a lot. We’re grieving. But my dh and I are finally able to sleep at night. There’s a lot that I can’t post about. 

And yes, people are figuring things out and seeing the situation for what it is. That took way less time than I thought.

 

Grieving - yes, that is a process. Life this side of heaven is so messy. Glad to hear things are more peaceful, especially for your younger children. 

Prayers for your family, including your oldest. 

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Hugs. I do think it's important to think about all those successful, normal adults who say they have stuff like this in their past. I mean, there are a bunch of country songs about guys who moved out because they got into fist fights with their father, etc ?  I think maybe we socially accept that kind of thing from boys more - the idea that they get to a point where they just can't be reasoned with and are being idiots and need to be gone and on their own for a good long while before they come to their senses and mature. It looks differently with girls, and is just less expected. But I bet it happens just as much, if not more so. Most of the cases I know about locally are with daughters, not sons. 

Usually not over fist fights, but words can hurt much more. 

Hugs. I'll be praying she is one of those who looks back and cringes some day at this phase in her life, because she's come so far she doesn't recognize that young, obstinate, hurtful person any longer. 

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