Son was jumped at school- what would you expect

[Clemsondana]

I'm sorry that your son is dealing with this.  While I"m not impressed with the school's handling of the situation, it's pretty much how it would have been handled in my middle and high schools (in 2 different states).  

[Pen]

56 minutes ago, katilac said:

How sad is it that my first thought was, oh no, never head to the bathroom after an argument! (using the word 'argument' for convenience, I know your ds didn't argue)

I was in school in the 1970s and 1980s. We treated bathrooms and stairwells with extreme caution, but at least no one would get in trouble for defending themselves if it was proven on video! 

 

 

Yes. That was true for me too. Certain areas of schools were particularly plagued as bully hang outs or places to jump someone .  

But in this case since the physical attack took place near VP office, bathrooms aspect may not be key. 

25 minutes ago, soror said:

Thank you all for your thoughts and words.

to clear up a few things:

I would pull my son out of school in a second if that is what he wanted, I would have done it Friday, I've got no qualms about that. BUT he is there because he wants to be there. He is enjoying school and doing well. He is 14 so he gets some say in this and it has been his only negative experience thus far.

And he should e able to stay. Attacker and school policy should not be driving out a motivated student. 

Quote

 

Good point and one I would not think about and certainly not ds. He didn't realize this was an ongoing thing, he thought it was done, he went to the bathroom because he needed to go. He's just not had that life experience to think about this. 

 

I think being aware of his circumstances will be important. 

However, the school policy that puts it on him to leave room on pretense of going to bathroom and then going to get VP seems very wrong for a number of reasons. 

The adults involved need to be the ones to put adequate means in place to summon adult assistance.  And then need to use the means. Could be an in classroom phone, or walkie-talkie, or other system, but they need something else, not child who was attacked  has to physically go somewhere else to get help—thus missing class time, and possibly becoming yet more vulnerable to further attack. 

Possibly they need 2 teachers in the classroom if one teacher cannot handle it.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2018 by Pen

[gardenmom5]

24 minutes ago, soror said:

One wonders, we will certainly be seeking clarification.

Juvenile Office is who deals with youth that break the laws here. 

is the juvenile office attached to the police station or school district?

[Pen]

4 minutes ago, Pen said:

e school policy

 

Though read the whole of official school policy. Maybe it is not school policy but rather poor idea on part of one Vice-Principal. And maybe the Vice hasn’t thought it through. 

Could be a group approach with superintendent, school psychologist, Principal, teachers, some students perhaps, as well as you and your son is needed

[katilac]

19 minutes ago, Pen said:

But in this case since the physical attack took place near VP office, bathrooms aspect may not be key. 

2

 

Oh, I don't think it was at all in this case, that was just my first thought: if somebody looks at you sideways, never head to the bathroom because you will be both cornered and out of sight if they follow you. 

[Soror]

21 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

is the juvenile office attached to the police station or school district?

Police

2 minutes ago, katilac said:

 

Oh, I don't think it was at all in this case, that was just my first thought: if somebody looks at you sideways, never head to the bathroom because you will be both cornered and out of sight if they follow you. 

 

It was not near the office, the VP was in the stairwell

[katilac]

19 minutes ago, Pen said:

Could be a group approach with superintendent, school psychologist, Principal, teachers, some students perhaps, as well as you and your son is needed

1

 

I think a group approach is an excellent idea, I would push for a meeting with several people from the school (although I personally wouldn't involve other students at this point). People are less inclined to toss out nonsense in front of their peers and, if they do make wrong-headed suggestions just because they haven't thought it through, others are there to point out the pitfalls. 

[Kim in Appalachia]

Is the other kid not being moved to DEAP? I would think he would be there for at least after Christmas.  And sadly, I have to agree with the advice of pressing charges and then suing.  A child who does that is a danger, and not just to your son.  The school knows that.  In a way their hands are tied.  They have to provide education to every child.  And it is an expensive and time consuming process to have a child removed from the school. And if said child's parents fight the process or the child has an IEP it's even harder (I know, it should not matter, but I know it does). My dd24 is a teacher. They had a child (like 2nd grade) who attacked a teacher with scissors.  Said child also hurt other children and threatened people saying she would get a knife.   It took until January (incident happened in Sept) to have the child removed to the alternative school.   

I'm so sorry for your son.  It's frustrating.  We've had the conversation with our boys that you can never hit back.  You just can't.  And again, if your child hits back, and the kid does have some sort of classification, guess who they go after?  Very aggravating. The schools are not equipped and have little ability to really deal with violent kids. 

 

[Pen]

42 minutes ago, katilac said:

 

Oh, I don't think it was at all in this case, that was just my first thought: if somebody looks at you sideways, never head to the bathroom because you will be both cornered and out of sight if they follow you. 

 

I agree don’t disagree that bathroom or other similar spots can be bad place in such circumstances. 

39 minutes ago, soror said:

Police

It was not near the office, the VP was in the stairwell

 

Stairwells are another risky spot. In some cases anyway. How did your son know that vp was in stairwell?  

[hjffkj]

Dh is a martial arts instructor and has dealt with many students coming to him with bullying issues in which the schools no tolerance hitting rule doesn't allow them to defend themselves properly.  The way he has handled that in order to help his students keep themselves safe is to really dig it into them that joint locks  are more effective than punches a lot of the time. Dh would likely encourage you to specifically ask the principal if your ds would get into trouble for protecting himself that way.  

I personally would be having a discussion with the principal in which I let him know that I will be contacting a lawyer because of what happened and seeking council on your next steps to keep your ds safe because the school is refusing to do so.

[Pen]

Is there a school board?

 

[katilac]

15 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

Dh is a martial arts instructor and has dealt with many students coming to him with bullying issues in which the schools no tolerance hitting rule doesn't allow them to defend themselves properly.  The way he has handled that in order to help his students keep themselves safe is to really dig it into them that joint locks  are more effective than punches a lot of the time. Dh would likely encourage you to specifically ask the principal if your ds would get into trouble for protecting himself that way.  

1

 

Good idea, but I'd probably not use the words "joint locks." I'd just ask if it's okay to hold their arms down so they can't continue to hit you. 

[hjffkj]

3 minutes ago, katilac said:

 

Good idea, but I'd probably not use the words "joint locks." I'd just ask if it's okay to hold their arms down so they can't continue to hit you. 

I think I would be specific because you can cause injury with a joint lock, specifically if the other person reacts to fight against it unpredictably.  I would want to know ahead of time what is specifically allowed.  If they said no, I'd still advise my child to use joint locks instead of fists.

[hjffkj]

blocks as well, of course.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

2 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Sadly, I would not expect the school to care two hoots about my child's safety. It is easier to intimidate victims into putting up with abuse or get their parents to remove them from school, than it is to deal with bullies so they take the easy route.

I would press charges, and be pretty demanding with the prosecutor about it. I would get a lawyer so that you can get your hands on the videotape evidence, and then use that to get a restraining order against the aggressor. The restraining order may then put a ton of liability on the part of the school to keep the perp away from your child. I would also tell the school that you will be taking legal action and seek monetary damages for any future incidents if the school shows any signs of negligence in dealing with the situation.

I would also have the lawyer notify the parents that should there be any incidents in the future, you will be suing them. That is the number one way to get them to take action with their own child. Seriously. I wish this were not true, but so often the parents of bullies defend their child, and sometimes even promote the behavior. At least, that is the case around here. You can see it as a generational thing. The moms were nasty, bully mean girls, the dads were aggressors, and their kids go down the same path. Potentially having a judgment against them for money/restitution is the only thing that seems to count. It is a very sad state of things, but all you can do is pursue what works because you can't change family culture.

Unfortunately, legal action and potential loss of money is about the only thing that motivates schools, companies, etc. to do what they should be doing. The morals and ethics just do not seem to exist anymore. There are alternative schools and online schooling for the perpetrator. He doesn't have to be in the general school population, it's just easier to get you to cave than to force the issue or make the parents of the bully take action.

 

Just for clarification, the OP can ask the prosecutor to move forward with charges, but whether they do or not is out of the OP's hands.  If there is the possibility of criminal action, contacting the parents of the other child would not be advisable. 

[Soror]

15 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I agree don’t disagree that bathroom or other similar spots can be bad place in such circumstances. 

 

Stairwells are another risky spot. In some cases anyway. How did your son know that vp was in stairwell?  

Ds said that evidently, the VP is usually around in between classes. 

 

17 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

Dh is a martial arts instructor and has dealt with many students coming to him with bullying issues in which the schools no tolerance hitting rule doesn't allow them to defend themselves properly.  The way he has handled that in order to help his students keep themselves safe is to really dig it into them that joint locks  are more effective than punches a lot of the time. Dh would likely encourage you to specifically ask the principal if your ds would get into trouble for protecting himself that way.  

I personally would be having a discussion with the principal in which I let him know that I will be contacting a lawyer because of what happened and seeking council on your next steps to keep your ds safe because the school is refusing to do so.

 

1 minute ago, katilac said:

 

Good idea, but I'd probably not use the words "joint locks." I'd just ask if it's okay to hold their arms down so they can't continue to hit you. 

 

Yes, I do want to know what is acceptable, although the number one goal is his safety, not the school rules.

[Pen]

How about practice in shouting for help and or using an emergency whistle such as loud coast guard type. 

Are they allowed to have cell phones during school?  If yes, I would consider having one preset to call 911 with a touch.  

If school does not take measures such that Ds is accosted in any way whatsoever by kid, call 911. Let school deal with repercussions that they won’t give adequate assistance to protect Ds and have rule that Ds cannot protect himself. This is another reason to have photos of bruises. I hope you got those now. 

Short of school stepping up to deal with it, and possibly some way that Ds can shout or call for help, he probably will have to use physical self defense skills. But things like trying yelling etc first may help to protect him from legal repercussions  even if it doesn’t bring needed aid    He would at least ha e tried other options before physical involvement. 

[Pen]

Just now, Pen said:

, he probably will have to use physical self defense skills. But things like trying

 

That is assuming that kid remains in classes with him and does not get help. 

Probably. 

Ds was sort of bullied (not physically, but internet) by a kid in 8th grade but now in 10th that seems to have passed. 

[Pen]

I

[SKL]

Honestly, I don't think they would remove a guy from classes over one incident.  If he has multiple incidents (which you would only know if it's common knowledge among the kids at school), maybe they could push for some additional intervention.

Hopefully the guy will not bother your son physically after his suspension is over.  I don't see how he could blame your son for jumping him from behind when your son didn't do anything at all.  Though logic might be a bit too much to ask from this young person.

If your son becomes the squeaky wheel and reports right away any further nonsense (verbal or otherwise) from this guy, I think the administration (and teachers) will be motivated to try to find a solution rather than be bothered repeatedly.

I hope the situation doesn't escalate or that if it does, the admin acts on it effectively next time.  Good luck.

[SKL]

As for self defense, although schools tell kids not to hit back bla bla bla, and some even punish kids for a fight if they DIDN'T hit back, I still tell my kids that they are allowed to defend themselves, and if school-sanctioned methods don't work, they are allowed to hit back.  It is more likely to stop the bullying going forward than other choices.

[Liz CA]

11 minutes ago, SKL said:

Honestly, I don't think they would remove a guy from classes over one incident.  If he has multiple incidents (which you would only know if it's common knowledge among the kids at school), maybe they could push for some additional intervention.

Hopefully the guy will not bother your son physically after his suspension is over.  I don't see how he could blame your son for jumping him from behind when your son didn't do anything at all.  Though logic might be a bit too much to ask from this young person.

If your son becomes the squeaky wheel and reports right away any further nonsense (verbal or otherwise) from this guy, I think the administration (and teachers) will be motivated to try to find a solution rather than be bothered repeatedly.

I hope the situation doesn't escalate or that if it does, the admin acts on it effectively next time.  Good luck.

 

Young people get in trouble over various "nonsense" but a boy (how old are they?) ignoring verbal commands, having to be hauled off in cuffs would not inspire a feeling of secure learning environment. I think one such incident is enough to get a psych eval and take a closer look what is happening with him. This does not sound like playful behavior where one boy jumps on someone's back but let's go when asked to do so. From what soror described there is a bit of anger underlying all this and he picked on a kid he figured he could control?

I would make it clear to the principle that I do not expect a son or daughter to stand there and be physically assaulted and that any policy who punishes the innocent is obviously counter-productive. I've always felt strongly about this. When ds was in school (kindergarden - 5th grade) he got into some nonsense and I was called into the office more than once and we disciplined accordingly. Never would I have disciplined him for defending himself.

But maybe I am hallucinating when I am thinking schools should be a safe place where learning can happen.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Liz CA

[gardenmom5]

6 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Sadly, I would not expect the school to care two hoots about my child's safety. It is easier to intimidate victims into putting up with abuse or get their parents to remove them from school, than it is to deal with bullies so they take the easy route.

 

This.   it is the easy, and LAZY, way out for school admins.

 

2 hours ago, Pen said:

How about practice in shouting for help and or using an emergency whistle such as loud coast guard type. 

Are they allowed to have cell phones during school?  If yes, I would consider having one preset to call 911 with a touch.  

 

a 911 call coming from a student in a school, is far more likely to be considered to be a hoax.  if he's attacked, he could easily lose the phone and not be able to respond to a dispatcher. 

I can't help but think of the case of Kyle Plush - who called them twice from his school parking lot. listening to the recordings of the responding officers and dispatcher - it sounded like they really thought it was "just" a hoax.

 

2 hours ago, SKL said:

As for self defense, although schools tell kids not to hit back bla bla bla, and some even punish kids for a fight if they DIDN'T hit back, I still tell my kids that they are allowed to defend themselves, and if school-sanctioned methods don't work, they are allowed to hit back.  It is more likely to stop the bullying going forward than other choices.

calling it a fight looks better for their statistics than calling it what it is -  bullying leading to physical assault.

2 hours ago, Liz CA said:

But maybe I am hallucinating when I am thinking schools should be a safe place where learning can happen.

you are just so unreasonable . . . . . .?

[Pen]

4 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

This.   it is the easy, and LAZY, way out for school admins.

 

a 911 call coming from a student in a school, is far more likely to be considered to be a hoax.  if he's attacked, he could easily lose the phone and not be able to respond to a dispatcher. 

I can't help but think of the case of Kyle Plush - who called them twice from his school parking lot. listening to the recordings of the responding officers and dispatcher - it sounded like they really thought it was "just" a hoax.

 

 

Then maybe cellphone on automatic dial ready to call Soror. If Soror gets a school day call from Ds ‘s number and he is unable to speak to explain what the call is about, then she calls police and explains as an adult. 

[Joules]

7 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Sadly, I would not expect the school to care two hoots about my child's safety. It is easier to intimidate victims into putting up with abuse or get their parents to remove them from school, than it is to deal with bullies so they take the easy route.

I would press charges, and be pretty demanding with the prosecutor about it. I would get a lawyer so that you can get your hands on the videotape evidence, and then use that to get a restraining order against the aggressor. The restraining order may then put a ton of liability on the part of the school to keep the perp away from your child. I would also tell the school that you will be taking legal action and seek monetary damages for any future incidents if the school shows any signs of negligence in dealing with the situation.

I would also have the lawyer notify the parents that should there be any incidents in the future, you will be suing them. That is the number one way to get them to take action with their own child. Seriously. I wish this were not true, but so often the parents of bullies defend their child, and sometimes even promote the behavior. At least, that is the case around here. You can see it as a generational thing. The moms were nasty, bully mean girls, the dads were aggressors, and their kids go down the same path. Potentially having a judgment against them for money/restitution is the only thing that seems to count. It is a very sad state of things, but all you can do is pursue what works because you can't change family culture.

Unfortunately, legal action and potential loss of money is about the only thing that motivates schools, companies, etc. to do what they should be doing. The morals and ethics just do not seem to exist anymore. There are alternative schools and online schooling for the perpetrator. He doesn't have to be in the general school population, it's just easier to get you to cave than to force the issue or make the parents of the bully take action.

I vote for a restraining order. If someone I worked with attacked me, I would pursue that. I would expect the same protection for a child in their workplace. I think they usually take a pattern of threats, but I'd start the process, because I'm sure he's going to continue to be a target if only verbal assault.

[PrincessMommy]

I haven't read all the responses yet, but I know someone who was involved in an unprovoked attack at school.  She did not defend herself and curled up in a ball.   The  girl's friend video taped the attack and put in on Social Media.  This was after several weeks of verbal harassment because my friend's daughter participated in a social studies class discussion about the election. Her views were opposite of everyone else in the class (that's all I'll say since this is a no-politics forum).    They went to the school principal prior to the attack and were basically told there wasn't anything they could do but if she was attacked to not fight back.  

The school barely did a thing even after the attack.  I think the girl and her friend got 3 days suspension and made them take the attack off SM.  (friends daughter did not get any suspension - thank God).  The school told the family that this other girl would be moved to another class and not be allowed in any classes with their daughter.  They lied.    

I'd lawyer up and get authorities involved.  The school wants everything hushed up... and you need to get those tapes before they are erased. 

 

edited to add:  The school will make out like they are on your side just to keep you quiet.  

Edited September 22, 2018 by PrincessMommy

[Janeway]

It bothers me that he could hit back, defend himself, and get in to trouble. Am I understand it correctly that he is expected to just take being hit and not react or he would be suspended too even though it was the other kid who attacked?

[PrincessMommy]

7 minutes ago, Janeway said:

It bothers me that he could hit back, defend himself, and get in to trouble. Am I understand it correctly that he is expected to just take being hit and not react or he would be suspended too even though it was the other kid who attacked?

That is my understanding.  My friend's daughter was told that if she hit back, to defend herself, she would be suspended,and it would go on her school record.  She was told that colleges look at that and it would reflect poorly on her applications.   

It's a messed up system.  

[Serenade]

1 hour ago, PrincessMommy said:

That is my understanding.  My friend's daughter was told that if she hit back, to defend herself, she would be suspended,and it would go on her school record.  She was told that colleges look at that and it would reflect poorly on her applications.   

It's a messed up system.  

 

Definitely a messed up system.  

I find this utterly horrifying.  So if kids don't want to be suspended, they have to let themselves get beaten up?  What a horrible, horrible, policy.

[DawnM]

Getting in trouble for defending yourself is pretty much standard protocol these days.  It is the case in the last 2 districts I have worked in.  It typically comes down to "he said/he said" even with video, and bullies often know where to avoid the cameras.  Sounds like this guy didn't, but he might in the future.

With getting taken off in handcuffs, parents will be called, he will be told what is and isn't acceptable, and he will be told what will happen if he does it again.  He will probably also be suspended.

You most certainly can:

1. Call the central district office and complain.  Tell them you are contacting your attorney.

2. Contact an attorney.

3. Contact the media

4. Post on social media

 

[TravelingChris]

I am not surprised it happened because similar incidents have happened in schools in my media area.  Shortly after I moved to this city, I was having my youngest take trumpet lessons at a music academy.  I would wait in the hall.  There was another student who would be waiting too for his lesson and I would talk to him sometimes.  One of the last times I did, he had been suspended from school because after he asked the very rude girl behind him to be quiet because he wanted to hear the teacher, she jumped on him and started pummeling him.  He did nothing but was suspended.  This was in a high school.  The policy was and may still be that victim is suspended too.

[Pen]

19 hours ago, SKL said:

As for self defense, although schools tell kids not to hit back bla bla bla, and some even punish kids for a fight if they DIDN'T hit back, I still tell my kids that they are allowed to defend themselves, and if school-sanctioned methods don't work, they are allowed to hit back.  It is more likely to stop the bullying going forward than other choices.

 

I basically agree with you. 

But especially with a child who is high in martial arts progression, care will be needed to make sure other kid doesn’t have a major claim against Soror’s son, if other kid gets hurt. Even if other kid started it  

Quite aside from school rules.  People with black belts (I do realize Soror dc is apparently not that high yet) have sometimes been held to higher standards or considered to be dealing as if with a weapon by LEO   

I think instructions from law enforcement, martial art instructors, etc may be needed to know what to do. 

 

ETA: right now Soror’s son is in a good position with this because there is legal and police record evidence. More evidence such as copies of the video tapes, bruise photos, etc may well be helpful if this continues with another episode in future—and possibly even if anything were to happen with another kid. It tends to establish that he has been passive despite being attacked and has followed the school rules 

Edited September 23, 2018 by Pen

[sheryl]

Oh my word, this really disturbs me!  This is insane!  I have NOT read the replies.

Not that it matters, much, just curious - your ds is in 8th.  Kids at this age KNOW this is unacceptable.

I HIGHTLY DOUBT that moving a troubled student to the other side of the room will protect the victim.  I think you need to look at this as your son WAS A VICTIM.  I do NOT play the victim card in conversation but this situation - attack - warrants that!   This troubled kid will act out again towards your ds or another student (more than likely).

Is this special needs?

Also, the Asst Prin seemed to placate you.  This is NOT acceptable.  You REALLY need an attorney on this to determine if any law exists superior to school decision to not "defend" oneself.

How ridiculous is this.  Maybe there is a lawyer on this board to could get your jump started. 
 

[shawthorne44]

17 hours ago, PrincessMommy said:

That is my understanding.  My friend's daughter was told that if she hit back, to defend herself, she would be suspended,and it would go on her school record.  She was told that colleges look at that and it would reflect poorly on her applications.   

It's a messed up system.  

 

Wow, I always thought that the idea of colleges looking at the school record as a myth the schools put out as a power play.   

But, this is one the Common App, "“Have you ever been found responsible for a disciplinary violation at any educational institution you have attended from the 9th grade (or the international equivalent) forward, whether related to academic misconduct or behavioral misconduct, that resulted in a disciplinary action? These actions could include, but are not limited to: probation, suspension, removal, dismissal, or expulsion from the institution”"

Although, since this Victim Is Equally Guilty thing is so common, I would think that someone could explain that they were suspended because someone was beating them up.   

[Mbelle]

  I am worried about kids learning to be co-dependent and/or victims with these kinds of policies.  Since this thead came up I went back and looked at my kids hybrid school policy and there  is nothing in there about fights.  I highly doubt there will be a fight, but I could be wrong and there are a couple of buliies.  I did tell my son to go ahead and defend himself to the point of getting out of a fight.  He has taken up level 2 in krav maga so I know he knows at least something and they did tell the kids to only use these skills to get out of a fight and run. 

[Soror]

Thank you all for your input!

ITA with everyone the policies are utterly ridiculous, especially so in this world that is supposed to be aware of bullying. I don't see how the current policies are in any way a step forward. Kids have no hope whatsoever when you have other kids that don't care about school discipline.

My son is not bruised, so there are no pics to take. He had some soreness here and there but nothing has shone up thus far.

I asked him if was afraid and he said no, the kid was pretty weak. I guess that is good? 

Dh thinks the matter is settled and we should let it be unless there is any further incidents. I'm not as gung ho as some of you but I don't think I'm ready to just let it be either. I'm trying to find a middle ground. 

I would like to see the video but being as they cited privacy concerns with telling me the kid's name I can't see they would release that. I'm going to call and check about the charges filed but again with confidentiality, I don't know that I will be told anything whatsoever. 

As of now, the other kid is out for who knows how long. The AP said the last kid taken away in cuffs has been gone going on 2 weeks with no sign of returning.

Oh, and it occurred to me yesterday this is only a 1 semester class, he does not have it after Christmas. I'm going to verify with the counselor that the kid in question is not in either elective next semester. He does not have any other classes with ds and before that incident they had never spoken.

[sheryl]

16 hours ago, DawnM said:

Getting in trouble for defending yourself is pretty much standard protocol these days.  It is the case in the last 2 districts I have worked in.  It typically comes down to "he said/he said" even with video, and bullies often know where to avoid the cameras.  Sounds like this guy didn't, but he might in the future.

With getting taken off in handcuffs, parents will be called, he will be told what is and isn't acceptable, and he will be told what will happen if he does it again.  He will probably also be suspended.

You most certainly can:

1. Call the central district office and complain.  Tell them you are contacting your attorney.

2. Contact an attorney.

3. Contact the media

4. Post on social media

 

Dawn, contact the media is a good one and I should have thought of that given that's dh's background!   

I would also add to turn off "location" on social media apps so the perpetrator and his family don't know where op/family lives.  

[Pen]

7 minutes ago, soror said:

last kid taken away in cuffs .

 

This is common?

[Pink and Green Mom]

I am so sorry this happened to your son.  Sadly, I'm not surprised by the school's response.  

Document the you-know-what out of the incident while it is still fresh in your mind.  No emotion, just facts.  I would avoid calling it a fight in any further communication, instead use terms like bullying, harassment, unsafe environment, and assault.  These buzz words seem to get much more attention than "fight."  Lastly, when a friend had a similar situation I asked my cousin (a principal) what one should do in that situation.  Her advice was to get a lawyer involved.  Nothing compels a school to act faster than a parent who they know won't put up with the school's crap.

Edited September 23, 2018 by Pink and Green Mom

[Pen]

@soror it may be over and done. I hope so. At least keep a file with whatever you have now—names, facts—in case it revs up again. I am glad Ds was not hurt enough to have bruises. 

I still think teachers need a system (in general) to get help to come to them. 

[Annie G]

Glad that you and ds feel better about the incident now that a couple of days have passed. Hope the rest of the term is uneventful!

[gardenmom5]

5 hours ago, soror said:

 

Dh thinks the matter is settled and we should let it be unless there is any further incidents. I'm not as gung ho as some of you but I don't think I'm ready to just let it be either. I'm trying to find a middle ground. 

I would like to see the video but being as they cited privacy concerns with telling me the kid's name I can't see they would release that. I'm going to call and check about the charges filed but again with confidentiality, I don't know that I will be told anything whatsoever. 

As of now, the other kid is out for who knows how long. The AP said the last kid taken away in cuffs has been gone going on 2 weeks with no sign of returning.

Oh, and it occurred to me yesterday this is only a 1 semester class, he does not have it after Christmas. I'm going to verify with the counselor that the kid in question is not in either elective next semester. He does not have any other classes with ds and before that incident they had never spoken.

this is why you get a lawyer.   it also puts the school on notice that you will NOT tolerate a second incident.

[Little Nyssa]

WTH? This happened in class? Where was the teacher? How could the teacher not respond, if the kid moved his chair and began abusing your DS for 5 minutes? How can any learning take place in such an environment?  Why was the teacher not in control of the classroom? I would ask for a meeting with the teacher, and if I wasn't satisfied then I'd talk again with the VP from that point of view: that the teacher needs some further training etc.

 

[Supertechmom]

I would call the State education dept and ask to speak to the legal team. Ask them if the school's interpretation of the policy is correct.   Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.  If it isn't,tell them you expect a call to the school to clarify and a proposed plan to keep your son safe. If it is correct, then find out if the school's proposed solution protects the school district from being sued by you if a second attack on your son occurs.  And then go from there based on their answers

 

[Pen]

19 hours ago, Little Nyssa said:

WTH? This happened in class? Where was the teacher? How could the teacher not respond, if the kid moved his chair and began abusing your DS for 5 minutes? How can any learning take place in such an environment?  Why was the teacher not in control of the classroom? I would ask for a meeting with the teacher, and if I wasn't satisfied then I'd talk again with the VP from that point of view: that the teacher needs some further training etc.

 

 

I have been looking at this from the angle of that teachers there need a system that is not sending kids into hall on their own or having a child have to pretend to go to bathroom and instead go to asst. principal for help. Such as need for in classroom phones etc to summon help  

This is identifying the other end of the problem. 

 

[shawthorne44]

Teachers can be perceived as being a bad teacher if they send too many kids to the office.   The idea is that they don't have control of the class.  Of course, in this case it is obviously true.  

[Pen]

Are gang issues potentially any part of this?

 I heard that on This American Life there was a recent program related to gang violence. 

One kid murdered by gang members was wearing wrong clothes etc that caused him to be targeted apparently. 

And a while back a 42 yo man (with no gang involvement or awareness) in a city in a part of my state not usually thought of as a gang problem area was attacked because he was wearing a red sweatshirt. 

 

“Talking smack” phrase also makes me wonder about op situation. 

And teachers can be afraid to do anything if they think it could be gang related. 

[Pen]

Post script thought:

 I wonder if there was any reason more than random chance that Soror’s Ds was the one the kid pulled a chair up next to when he returned from hall. 

And if it can be changed whatever it is—seat location, clothes that made him a target, something he said to kid...   ???  To avoid similar in future perhaps with a different kid  

 

[Pen]

41 minutes ago, HeighHo said:

Phones are too late.  The procedure here is for the teacher to open the door.  That signals the hall security to respond; they'll communicate with the office and their team as they do.  

Yes, security is in every hallway and stairway. 

 

I have not seen a school with security like that outside of when I lived in New York. 

Maybe Soror’s school has security guards in each area,  but (from what I have seen in various places) I doubt it is common and may require state level legislation, not be something an individual school can decide to do. 

I think depending on architecture of school, a lot of schools would not be able to afford to have a security guard in every hall and stairwell. 

?????

Edited September 25, 2018 by Pen

[Pen]

8 minutes ago, HeighHo said:

It is something an individual district can do. Communities that want to prioritize school safety and make/keep the school  a learning environment can do so.  The people of my district were motivated by a very large gang knifefight, as the area was changing and thugs were moving in, viewing the school as a great drug marketplace.  It was costly, all electives were cut and some sports in order to pay for it, but in two years the reduction in litigation costs paid for the security, the add'l social worker & psychs and the school is again a place of learning with an additional alternative high school to complement the homebound program for those that aren't interested in the mainstream offering.   This isn't special stuff, public schools with violence problems are beefing up support staff and also providing space for mental health providers to set up shop. 

 

Ok. Good to know.

 

However, if they don’t already have security guard in hallway at the school, I am still not sure that this would help Soror’s son. His situation seems unlikely to be as motivating as a large gang knife fight.