Lavender4 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 (edited) Have you ever wondered what makes some students excel in college or at university while others struggle?---I can tell you from experience: it's definitely not the IQ!! During my eight years of teaching university, I've seen it over and over again that very intelligent students (even the ones who came in with top grades from high school) don't always perform at their best... So what does it really take to excel at this level? It's the set of powerful habits and character traits that makes some students perform amazingly well even through toughest academic challenges. These super-habits reside in four areas: The top student mindset - having the right attitude toward studies and knowing what to work so hard for —in other words having a vision or a dream that makes it all worth it. Organization and planning skills - ability to setup a study environment and a routine that makes it easier to do well. Effective study habits - knowing the ways to get the most out of study time on a regular basis. Knowing how to ace exams - studying effectively is one thing but performing at one's best on exams, when the efforts count most, is another. Students need to develop effective habits on how to focus and excel during exams. Wishing our kids and graduates the best of success in their studies! Edited September 21, 2018 by Lavender4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrichor Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 It definitely IS the IQ. You're either destined to excel or doomed to fail. #sorrynotsorry Study habits? HA! That's got nothing to do with it! (yes that's snark/sarcasm) also: reported. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavender4 Posted September 20, 2018 Author Share Posted September 20, 2018 Petrichor, what experience do you have to make such a bold statement? Have you ever taught in college or at university? Have you observed thousands of students and their performance to draw such definite conclusions? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 This forum isn't a place for advertising. When a newly registered member posts something that looks like an advertisement it is going to get reported as SPAM. We do like to be snarky and silly at times. I'm with Petrichor--fixed mindset all the way! Fortunately Well Trained Mind forums are like Lake Woebegone--all our children are above average and destined to succeed ? 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrichor Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Lavender4 said: Petrichor, what experience do you have to make such a bold statement? Have you ever taught in college or at university? Have you observed thousands of students and their performance to draw such definite conclusions? I have been teaching at KITTENS University for approximately 352 years, and have taught millions, no, billions, of students in my time there. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrichor Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 ? didn't realize Lavender (in his/her second post) was the OP What's up with creating a new account in order to react to your own posts? ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Petrichor said: I have been teaching at KITTENS University for approximately 352 years, and have taught millions, no, billions, of students in my time there. The question is, have you managed to grow more than two feet tall? And how much Sluice do you drink daily? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrichor Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, maize said: I'm with Petrichor--fixed mindset all the way! Fortunately Well Trained Mind forums are like Lake Woebegone--all our children are above average and destined to succeed ? Precisely! Actually, I think most of our kids just totally test out of college. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrichor Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 minute ago, maize said: The question is, have you managed to grow more than two feet tall? And how much Sluice do you drink daily? No, sadly, I haven't ? I blame the Sluice for that... I'm down to 3 cans a day, actually! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EIU Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 So funny. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavender4 Posted September 21, 2018 Author Share Posted September 21, 2018 This post was meant to start a meaningful discussion that actually can benefit everyone in this community, not as a forum for unhappy people to express their "bullying" side. For those who just love to judge and jump to unsubstantiated conclusions, the question is: why are you on this website at all if you'd rather use it as an outlet and not as way to learn and grow? Isn't that what WellTrainedMind is intended for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 We're pretty good at meaningful discussions. Wanna pick a topic? I recommend kilts or cupcakes. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavender4 Posted September 21, 2018 Author Share Posted September 21, 2018 This is an education forum, isn't it? I have a lot of experience with higher education at top universities, not much experience with kilts or cupcakes. If anyone here actually cares about helping our kids and students excel in college or at university, I'll be happy to have a meaningful discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Hang out with us long enough to understand the significance of kilts and cupcakes, homeschool a child or two, and we will be more than happy to discuss study strategies with you. In the meantime, I sincerely wish you well with your online course and hope you find some appropriate venues to promote it. If you would like to remove the advertising link from your original post and chat with us about your insights into effective studying some of us would probably be happy to join the discussion. Might save our overworked moderators the trouble of taking down your post. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavender4 Posted September 21, 2018 Author Share Posted September 21, 2018 No worries. From the types of characters I've seen here so far and the "warm" welcome I've received, I have no interest "hanging out with you". Unfortunately, I've never been a bully so we have nothing in common. I would never treat anyone this way, "kindness" is my moto. On my side, I suggest you start a new topic on "kilts and cupcakes". I started this one on "how to excel in college /university", and it's my right. You don't own this site as far as I know? Just don't participate in this topic if it doesn't interest you. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrichor Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 9 hours ago, Lavender4 said: No worries. From the types of characters I've seen here so far and the "warm" welcome I've received, I have no interest "hanging out with you". Unfortunately, I've never been a bully so we have nothing in common. I would never treat anyone this way, "kindness" is my moto. On my side, I suggest you start a new topic on "kilts and cupcakes". I started this one on "how to excel in college /university", and it's my right. You don't own this site as far as I know? Just don't participate in this topic if it doesn't interest you. We know you don't. Your interest is in advertising to us, and we don't take kindly to that. Now, like Maize said, if you homeschool and/or want a community and discussion, we're warm and welcoming. We don't tolerate advertising. If you fix your post and turn it into a conversation starter or a question, you will get engagement. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrichor Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 10 hours ago, EIU said: So funny. ? Perfect! Now I can report this account too! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Lavender4 said: No worries. From the types of characters I've seen here so far and the "warm" welcome I've received, I have no interest "hanging out with you". Unfortunately, I've never been a bully so we have nothing in common. I would never treat anyone this way, "kindness" is my moto. On my side, I suggest you start a new topic on "kilts and cupcakes". I started this one on "how to excel in college /university", and it's my right. You don't own this site as far as I know? Just don't participate in this topic if it doesn't interest you. Terms of use of these forums may be found here: https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/terms/ Note the purpose of the forums: "The Site is operated by Peace Hill Press, Inc. ("PHP" or "we") to provide a social network for parents who are educating their children." and the specific exclusion of their use for commercial activities such as advertising, under the heading Inappropriate User Content: "Inappropriate User Content includes material, or links to material, that...facilitates or constitutes part of commercial activities and/or sales such as contests, sweepstakes, barter, advertising, and pyramid schemes." It is not in fact your right to post material that is outside the terms of use of these forums. Nor is it kind to pretend to desire to engage in discussion when your primary motive is to advertise a product. Edited September 21, 2018 by maize 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Lavender4 said: No worries. From the types of characters I've seen here so far and the "warm" welcome I've received, I have no interest "hanging out with you". Unfortunately, I've never been a bully so we have nothing in common. I would never treat anyone this way, "kindness" is my moto. On my side, I suggest you start a new topic on "kilts and cupcakes". I started this one on "how to excel in college /university", and it's my right. You don't own this site as far as I know? Just don't participate in this topic if it doesn't interest you. As pointed out, your post violates the forum rules, so posts promoting your services are not allowed. Fwiw, no one asked you any questions about excelling in college bc most of the posters on this forum already know. There is a high school forum and a college forum on this site. Many posters are college professors and/or have college grads. People ask questions and helpful homeschooling posters with experience in having students go from homeschooling to thriving in college respond. Being a complete newcomer to the forum and posting with authority what it takes for homeschoolers to succeed in college is not the way to introduce yourself. Many posters on this forum have been posting for yrs. This isn't just a "forum;" it is a community, a very helpful and supportive one. Edited September 21, 2018 by 8FillTheHeart 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeAgain Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 I love how it is an automatic jump to bullying when: 1. An "educated" person can't read simple rules. 2. A person violates said rules and is reported for it. 3. Thinks the word 'discussion' means selling their product. And when they are not given a fabulous reception to such activity cannot take responsibility for their own actions. Which university? I'd like to cross that one off our list. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Hang on while I clean up from checking on the livestock; wouldn't want to drag manure into the forum. Oh, Daisy says "hi". Might a sounded like "moo" but I'm pretty good at interpreting her ? Apparently feeding trolls is more fun than what I am actually supposed to be doing, which is cleaning the rec room because homeschool orchestra is meeting there this afternoon. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EIU Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 This is getting quite entertaining actually. Lucky I don't have to work for a living. Out of curiosity, do you homeschool challenged individuals? No disrespect intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EIU Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 25 minutes ago, HomeAgain said: I love how it is an automatic jump to bullying when: 1. An "educated" person can't read simple rules. 2. A person violates said rules and is reported for it. 3. Thinks the word 'discussion' means selling their product. And when they are not given a fabulous reception to such activity cannot take responsibility for their own actions. Which university? I'd like to cross that one off our list. Hello there, Which product is for sale? Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 hour ago, HomeAgain said: Which university? I'd like to cross that one off our list. 36 minutes ago, EIU said: Which product is for sale? The Udemy course link in the first post. ”20 Study Habits of Top Students If you want to excel in college or at university, take this course. NEW Created by Liliya Lyubman Last updated 9/2018 English Current Price $10.99 Original Price $149.99 Discount 93% off Liliya Lyubman is a professor of Online Business and Strategic Management at McGill and Concordia Universities in Montreal, Canada.” 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrichor Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Actually, it's a yurt. And I don't have cows, they're goats. And we don't challenge our kids, that's why we homeschool! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 34 minutes ago, Petrichor said: Actually, it's a yurt. And I don't have cows, they're goats. And we don't challenge our kids, that's why we homeschool! I've been meaning to ask you, which essential oils would you recommend for my non-vaccinated kid who has come down with the measles? You've got so much natural living cred what with the yurt and goats and all, I'm sure you know all the best remedies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, EIU said: . So coming from a retired wealthy businessman. I read your articles you are perfect for the new generation. 1 hour ago, EIU said: Hello there, Which product is for sale? Thank you Guess you were lucky to find her post!! Hopefully her 20 effective study habits course incorporates teaching close reading since close reading is definitely an invaluable skill for student success. 23 hours ago, Lavender4 said: Have you ever wondered what makes some students excel in college or at university while others struggle?---I can tell you from experience: it's definitely not the IQ!! During my eight years of teaching university, I've seen it over and over again that very intelligent students (even the ones who came in with top grades from high school) don't always perform at their best... So what does it really take to excel at this level? It's the set of powerful habits and character traits that makes some students perform amazingly well even through toughest academic challenges. These super-habits reside in four areas: The top student mindset - having the right attitude toward studies and knowing what to work so hard for —in other words having a vision or a dream that makes it all worth it. Organization and planning skills - ability to setup a study environment and a routine that makes it easier to do well. Effective study habits - knowing the ways to get the most out of study time on a regular basis. Knowing how to ace exams - studying effectively is one thing but performing at one's best on exams, when the efforts count most, is another. Students need to develop effective habits on how to focus and excel during exams. Here is an online video course 20 Study Habits of Top Students, which prepares students to excel in college or at university in North America. You get two free lessons as part of a preview.Wishing our kids and graduates the best of success in their studies! Edited September 21, 2018 by 8FillTheHeart 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrichor Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, maize said: I've been meaning to ask you, which essential oils would you recommend for my non-vaccinated kid who has come down with the measles? You've got so much natural living cred what with the yurt and goats and all, I'm sure you know all the best remedies. Are you sure it's the measles? I read an article last week that said the measles aren't real. You're probably dealing with lyme. Or celiac. Either way, 1 drop of "spot away" blend under the tongue and behind each ear each night should do the trick. If that doesn't work, try goat urine. It really works, trust me! Whichever route you want to take, PM me, I can sell you a bottle! *shudders* 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertflower Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 19 hours ago, Lavender4 said: This is an education forum, isn't it? I have a lot of experience with higher education at top universities, not much experience with kilts or cupcakes. If anyone here actually cares about helping our kids and students excel in college or at university, I'll be happy to have a meaningful discussion. Lavender4, Maize was just joking around about the kilts or cupcakes comment. This happened years ago even before my time here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertflower Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 18 hours ago, Lavender4 said: No worries. From the types of characters I've seen here so far and the "warm" welcome I've received, I have no interest "hanging out with you". Unfortunately, I've never been a bully so we have nothing in common. I would never treat anyone this way, "kindness" is my moto. On my side, I suggest you start a new topic on "kilts and cupcakes". I started this one on "how to excel in college /university", and it's my right. You don't own this site as far as I know? Just don't participate in this topic if it doesn't interest you. I'm sorry that you haven't had a warm welcome here. However, it is against the rules to post a link that advertises. The people here were just trying to watch out for each other because we do get a lot of people who want to spam us. If that is not your intent, please stick around and hang out with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertflower Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 19 hours ago, Lavender4 said: This post was meant to start a meaningful discussion that actually can benefit everyone in this community, not as a forum for unhappy people to express their "bullying" side. For those who just love to judge and jump to unsubstantiated conclusions, the question is: why are you on this website at all if you'd rather use it as an outlet and not as way to learn and grow? Isn't that what WellTrainedMind is intended for? Yes, this site is for us to help each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavender4 Posted September 21, 2018 Author Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) Thank you, Desertflower. I removed the link to the course from the original post. If there is a better place on this site to give access to the course (as I believe it could benefit many) please let me know. Otherwise, the conversation can continue without it, just in a civil way. Edited September 21, 2018 by Lavender4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertflower Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, Lavender4 said: Thank you, Desertflower. I removed the link to the course from the original post. If there is a better place on this site to give access to the course (as I believe it could benefit many) please let me know. Otherwise, a conversation can continue without it, just in a civil way. No, no place on this forum to advertise for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Lavender4 - In your view, is it best to have a consistent "study environment" (studying in the same place every time)? In your opinion, does it need to be free from distractions (quiet, clear of clutter)? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavender4 Posted September 21, 2018 Author Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) Thank you for this question, RootAnn. Consistent, dedicated "study environment" all the way, and of course free of distractions. We humans are the creatures of habit, so if we train our brain in a way that we always study in the same room at the same desk, as soon as we're there our brain will go into the "work mode" and we'll be most productive. If no dedicated desk is possible (or if it's too noisy in a dorm), then studying in a library is also a good option. It's quiet and many students can study there effectively either between or after classes. Edited September 22, 2018 by Lavender4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 29 minutes ago, Lavender4 said: Thank you, Desertflower. I removed the link to the course from the original post. If there is a better place on this site to give access to the course (as I believe it could benefit many) please let me know. Otherwise, the conversation can continue without it, just in a civil way. 23 minutes ago, desertflower said: No, no place on this forum to advertise for it. No exactly accurate. You can place a link in your siggie (at least you used to be able to. I don't know if it works since the upgrade, though.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertflower Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, 8FillTheHeart said: No exactly accurate. You can place a link in your siggie (at least you used to be able to. I don't know if it works since the upgrade, though.) I'll ask and confirm 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Lavender4 said: Thank you for this question, RootAnn. Consistent, dedicated "study environment" all the way, and of course free of distractions. We humans are creatures of habit, so if we train our brain in a way that we always study in the same room at the same desk, as soon as we're there our brain will go into the "work mode" and we'll be most productive. If no dedicated desk is possible (or if it's too noisy in a dorm), then library is also a good option. It's quiet and many students can study there effectively either between or after classes. I once believed all those things were the best way to learn, too. However, teaching my own kids forced me to educate myself on 'best practices.' Have you read the studies cited in the book The Surprising Truth about How We Learn or the book itself? It explains that common sense advice like the above is often the wrong way to increase recall or long-term memory. Unless the student will be taking the test in the same room and at the same desk he or she studied at, this is absolutely the wrong way to go about studying. In fact, they cite a study from the 1970s that shows studying in multiple locations & under different circumstances. The experiment "showed strong recall improvements with variation of environmental context." I now encourage my kids to study in various locations (outside, inside, at the library, at the park, downstairs, upstairs) and under varying conditions (with music, without music) in order to improve their recall under different conditions. One of the studies showed that listening to music while studying improved later recall. If you are interested in how students can improve their studying skills, I highly encourage you to read this book. Another one called Make It Stick: The Science of Successful Learning is also eye opening. It talks about spaced repetition improving recall and short quizzing vs. more spaced out testing being more beneficial to learning outcomes. Some of us use spaced recall to help our kids learn, keep, and then efficiently recall the large quantities of material we study each year. The most popular and efficient way to do this is an app called Anki. (It is free.) Quizlet is nice, too, but it doesn't do the spaced repetition stuff for you, at least not in the free version; I don't know about the premium version. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 I'd be interested in knowing what strategies have worked for people who generally struggle with executive function. A person who is naturally disorganized and has trouble focusing isn't likely to benefit from being told what organized, well focused people do that works for them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 RootAnn, my kids have all developed their own methods of what works for them. Of course, being homeschoolers with a lot of siblings, quiet rooms and private space are 2 things that have never existed in our house. Our kids (have) spent their childhoods doing school wherever they want. My current college student says she prefers to listen to music through her head phones while being surrounded by a large group of her friends who are also working. She says when she goes off into her room by herself she gets sleepy. Being around people, even if she isn't interacting with them, keeps her energized. Fwiw, the best approach is the one that works for the student. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavender4 Posted September 22, 2018 Author Share Posted September 22, 2018 15 minutes ago, RootAnn said: I once believed all those things were the best way to learn, too. However, teaching my own kids forced me to educate myself on 'best practices.' Have you read the studies cited in the book The Surprising Truth about How We Learn or the book itself? It explains that common sense advice like the above is often the wrong way to increase recall or long-term memory. Unless the student will be taking the test in the same room and at the same desk he or she studied at, this is absolutely the wrong way to go about studying. In fact, they cite a study from the 1970s that shows studying in multiple locations & under different circumstances. The experiment "showed strong recall improvements with variation of environmental context." I now encourage my kids to study in various locations (outside, inside, at the library, at the park, downstairs, upstairs) and under varying conditions (with music, without music) in order to improve their recall under different conditions. One of the studies showed that listening to music while studying improved later recall. If you are interested in how students can improve their studying skills, I highly encourage you to read this book. Another one called Make It Stick: The Science of Successful Learning is also eye opening. It talks about spaced repetition improving recall and short quizzing vs. more spaced out testing being more beneficial to learning outcomes. Some of us use spaced recall to help our kids learn, keep, and then efficiently recall the large quantities of material we study each year. The most popular and efficient way to do this is an app called Anki. (It is free.) Quizlet is nice, too, but it doesn't do the spaced repetition stuff for you, at least not in the free version; I don't know about the premium version. Thanks, RootAnn, I'll check out these resources. While I respect secondary research, I'm a big believer in teaching from first-hand experience --- I find it more authentic. I only dare give advice when I have tested it on myself and observed by working closely with students in a practical setting. I stay away from recommending things based on what I read in secondary sources. Having said that, it's great that you're experimenting with different theories and tools. It's the best way to find out what works well for your kids. And you might have noticed that what works well for one of your kids may not work for another, as each of these precious human beings is unique.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavender4 Posted September 22, 2018 Author Share Posted September 22, 2018 44 minutes ago, maize said: I'd be interested in knowing what strategies have worked for people who generally struggle with executive function. A person who is naturally disorganized and has trouble focusing isn't likely to benefit from being told what organized, well focused people do that works for them. In colleges and universities, there are resources available to students who're diagnosed with disorders (such as ADHD, OCD, anxiety and others) and they write their exams in the office of students with disabilities. They get special adaptations such as longer time to complete the exam. Also, depending on diagnosis, they can have other students take notes for them in class. If it's truly a diagnosed disorder, then professional coaching or treatment is necessary. If someone is simply disorganized by nature but doesn't have a condition, then organizational skills can be learned and should be learned because they'll be needed in life. Universities are great environments to learn organizational skills because it's hard to sail through years of an undergraduate degree without properly organizing and coordinating all the course work, assignments, exams and group projects involved in completing a degree. There are many deadlines to manage. And then it would be hard to keep a job without organizational skills. In simple words, if there is a diagnosis: get the treatment. It could be traditional or unconventional ---doesn't matter ---as long as it's effective. There are also ADHD coaches who help learn specific strategies. Also, I've seen Omega 3 do miracles for increased concentration in kids. If no diagnosis: better learn organizational skills as they'll be crucial to success in studies and in career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavender4 Posted September 22, 2018 Author Share Posted September 22, 2018 39 minutes ago, 8FillTheHeart said: RootAnn, my kids have all developed their own methods of what works for them. Of course, being homeschoolers with a lot of siblings, quiet rooms and private space are 2 things that have never existed in our house. Our kids (have) spent their childhoods doing school wherever they want. My current college student says she prefers to listen to music through her head phones while being surrounded by a large group of her friends who are also working. She says when she goes off into her room by herself she gets sleepy. Being around people, even if she isn't interacting with them, keeps her energized. Fwiw, the best approach is the one that works for the student. Agreed. Just let's keep in mind that in college the workload is quite serious. This means that students may study 35 hours a week, for hours at a time, and that's when healthy study environment with proper lighting, good chair, good hand support and proper posture become very important. Studying is like a full-time job at that level, so having the environment setup in an ergonomic way is important in the long-term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 11 hours ago, Lavender4 said: Agreed. Just let's keep in mind that in college the workload is quite serious. Great info for others reading the thread. The poster you replied to, however, already know this because the college student she mentions in her post is not her first. In fact, the one of her kids that is currently in a top rated graduate school took multiple 400 level science classes while still in high school (in her homeschool). She's one of the many posters the rest of is listen carefully to since she has a lot of experience with different types of students. I have definitely noticed that all my kids are different. What works for me (quiet study environment) doesn't work for my eldest. That's one reason I went searching to see if I needed to insist on quiet for her. The fact that most people (not all) learn better with music on (not all types of music) was a surprise to me. I'm fortunate to have lots of kids to experience lots of different types of learners and to be able to adapt to each one's needs in a homeschool setting. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie in VA Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, Lavender4 said: Thanks, RootAnn, I'll check out these resources. While I respect secondary research, I'm a big believer in teaching from first-hand experience --- I find it more authentic. I only dare give advice when I have tested it on myself and observed by working closely with students in a practical setting. I stay away from recommending things based on what I read in secondary sources. Having said that, it's great that you're experimenting with different theories and tools. It's the best way to find out what works well for your kids. And you might have noticed that what works well for one of your kids may not work for another, as each of these precious human beings is unique.:) 1 hour ago, RootAnn said: Great info for others reading the thread. The poster you replied to, however, already know this because the college student she mentions in her post is not her first. In fact, the one of her kids that is currently in a top rated graduate school took multiple 400 level science classes while still in high school (in her homeschool). She's one of the many posters the rest of is listen carefully to since she has a lot of experience with different types of students. I have definitely noticed that all my kids are different. What works for me (quiet study environment) doesn't work for my eldest. That's one reason I went searching to see if I needed to insist on quiet for her. The fact that most people (not all) learn better with music on (not all types of music) was a surprise to me. I'm fortunate to have lots of kids to experience lots of different types of learners and to be able to adapt to each one's needs in a homeschool setting. Exactly. Edited September 22, 2018 by Angie in VA 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertflower Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 17 hours ago, desertflower said: I'll ask and confirm 8. With regard to advertising: It is against the forum guidelines. Even in siggies. However, it is like speeding. Speeding is against the law, but some of us still do it and may not get caught. Similar to advertising in siggie. I'm sure there are a few people here who may have it in their siggie, but we don't catch them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 The OP has edited her first post to take away the link for advertising. Just an aside for newbies, though. People respond a lot better to open ended questions here than posts designed to be lectures. While not everyone here is a classical educator, there is a wealth of experience and knowledge here that can be tapped with an actual discussion. If you want to lecture, write a blog or an article. As someone else mentioned up thread, this is a community of educators and all communities require some adherence to social norms if you want to fit in. It doesn't mean that you have to accept everyone's position, but this community is so much richer when we actually discuss ideas and teaching methods and things like study skills. (PS - if you look at signatures you will see that quite a few of us actually have children in university and while we do have occasion to ask questions on the college subforum, most are excelling.) 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavender4 Posted September 22, 2018 Author Share Posted September 22, 2018 51 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said: The OP has edited her first post to take away the link for advertising. Just an aside for newbies, though. People respond a lot better to open ended questions here than posts designed to be lectures. While not everyone here is a classical educator, there is a wealth of experience and knowledge here that can be tapped with an actual discussion. If you want to lecture, write a blog or an article. As someone else mentioned up thread, this is a community of educators and all communities require some adherence to social norms if you want to fit in. It doesn't mean that you have to accept everyone's position, but this community is so much richer when we actually discuss ideas and teaching methods and things like study skills. (PS - if you look at signatures you will see that quite a few of us actually have children in university and while we do have occasion to ask questions on the college subforum, most are excelling.) That's awesome that kids are excelling. I do see that this topic has many visitors, so I assume this means that there is a need for experienced advice in this area. Perhaps those whose kids are struggling don't necessarily volunteer this information on this forum. If anyone has specific questions about how to excel in college or at university, I'd be happy to answer to the best of my ability. That's the primary reason why I spent good part of the summer developing the course: to help those who struggle with first-hand tips and strategies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lavender4 said: That's awesome that kids are excelling. I do see that this topic has many visitors, so I assume this means that there is a need for experienced advice in this area. Perhaps those whose kids are struggling don't necessarily volunteer this information on this forum. If anyone has specific questions about how to excel in college or at university, I'd be happy to answer to the best of my ability. That's the primary reason why I spent good part of the summer developing the course: to help those who struggle with first-hand tips and strategies. Having been part of this community for well over a decade, I do suspect that the bolded is probably unlikely. The number of views probably reflects the "passing the popcorn effect." ? In terms of the italicized red, Jean's post was insightful and helpful. 2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said: Just an aside for newbies, though. People respond a lot better to open ended questions here than posts designed to be lectures. While not everyone here is a classical educator, there is a wealth of experience and knowledge here that can be tapped with an actual discussion. If you want to lecture, write a blog or an article. As someone else mentioned up thread, this is a community of educators and all communities require some adherence to social norms if you want to fit in. It doesn't mean that you have to accept everyone's position, but this community is so much richer when we actually discuss ideas and teaching methods and things like study skills. (PS - if you look at signatures you will see that quite a few of us actually have children in university and while we do have occasion to ask questions on the college subforum, most are excelling.) Open-ended discussions with multiple perspectives being offered and no response being the single valid one is pretty much the way this forum functions. Asking questions and having actual conversations goes a long way in encouraging other posters to engage, share ideas/their own personal experiences that might be helpful to the person needing assistance bc everyone's situation is so different. What one family finds helpful might be a horrid fit for another. FWIW, I didn't respond to this post initially, but now I may as well. This was your response to Maize's question: 18 hours ago, Lavender4 said: In colleges and universities, there are resources available to students who're diagnosed with disorders (such as ADHD, OCD, anxiety and others) and they write their exams in the office of students with disabilities. They get special adaptations such as longer time to complete the exam. Also, depending on diagnosis, they can have other students take notes for them in class. If it's truly a diagnosed disorder, then professional coaching or treatment is necessary. If someone is simply disorganized by nature but doesn't have a condition, then organizational skills can be learned and should be learned because they'll be needed in life. Universities are great environments to learn organizational skills because it's hard to sail through years of an undergraduate degree without properly organizing and coordinating all the course work, assignments, exams and group projects involved in completing a degree. There are many deadlines to manage. And then it would be hard to keep a job without organizational skills. In simple words, if there is a diagnosis: get the treatment. It could be traditional or unconventional ---doesn't matter ---as long as it's effective. There are also ADHD coaches who help learn specific strategies. Also, I've seen Omega 3 do miracles for increased concentration in kids. If no diagnosis: better learn organizational skills as they'll be crucial to success in studies and in career. Maize asked 19 hours ago, maize said: I'd be interested in knowing what strategies have worked for people who generally struggle with executive function. A person who is naturally disorganized and has trouble focusing isn't likely to benefit from being told what organized, well focused people do that works for them. Your response did not actually answer the question and actually reads (fairly or unfairly, I don't know.....this is just my this side of the screen assessment) like someone who does not really understand the struggles of those with executive function deficits. Seeking accommodations is not a strategy for compensating for executive function deficits that cause serious lack of organization. Neither is stating that resources exist on campus. Strategies are methods the students can be taught to implement themselves in attempt to function at a higher level. Accommodations will give extensions in time, recording of lectures, quiet locations for testing, etc, but there are no accommodations for losing assignments, turning in work late, forgetting to set the alarm to wake up for class, etc. The real organizational skills required to function in college are going to require far more complex answers and empathy than seek accommodations and on-campus resources. Informing that "organizational skills can be learned and should be learned because they'll be needed in life. Universities are great environments to learn organizational skills because it's hard to sail through years of an undergraduate degree without properly organizing and coordinating all the course work, assignments, exams and group projects involved in completing a degree. There are many deadlines to manage. And then it would be hard to keep a job without organizational skills," is precisely what she stated was not helpful because being told that the student needs to be organized to succeed in college is simply stating the obvious. Asking what sort of organizational skills are lacking or what strategies have been tried without success would be conversing and actually attempting to understand the scenario vs. the lecture approach that Jean noted in her post. ETA: I do hope you will stay and engage in conversation with posters who can benefit from what you have to share. It seems like you have given this topic a lot of thought. (FWIW, I do know that if you mention your course in your responses that your posts will be considered in violation of forum rules. The part about having a link to them in your siggie being a violation of forum rules is news to me. But, discussing them.....that is not allowed.) Edited September 22, 2018 by 8FillTheHeart 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavender4 Posted September 22, 2018 Author Share Posted September 22, 2018 8FillTheHeart, I do truly appreciate you taking the time to thoroughly read my answers. I'm not a specialist on helping those struggling with executive function, neither do I claim to be. These are special cases that need specialized coaching and sometimes treatment. Often executive function struggles are linked to ADHD diagnosis that needs to be approached separately by certified professionals. That's why I mentioned on-campus resources. As per my original post, my focus is to help those who are fully capable but are not reaching their academic potential due to a limiting mindset and not having effective habits, strategies and tools that are required to excel at college/university level. Over the years I've seen many students who are intelligent but under-perform due to not approaching their college/university studies in the most effective and mature way. It's often linked to mindset issues, lack of confidence, lack of purpose, lack of organizational habits, discipline and more. Below is a copy and paste from my original post. The four areas mentioned, are the ones I can help with. I can only ask follow up questions if I feel that I can help further on the subject. Executive function issues is not one of them. That's why there are on-campus resources to address individualized student needs and offer appropriate adaptations. Here it goes again: "Have you ever wondered what makes some students excel in college or at university while others struggle?---I can tell you from experience: it's definitely not the IQ!! During my eight years of teaching university, I've seen it over and over again that very intelligent students (even the ones who came in with top grades from high school) don't always perform at their best... So what does it really take to excel at this level? It's the set of powerful habits and character traits that makes some students perform amazingly well even through toughest academic challenges. These super-habits reside in four areas: The top student mindset - having the right attitude toward studies and knowing what to work so hard for —in other words having a vision or a dream that makes it all worth it. Organization and planning skills - ability to setup a study environment and a routine that makes it easier to do well. Effective study habits - knowing the ways to get the most out of study time on a regular basis. Knowing how to ace exams - studying effectively is one thing but performing at one's best on exams, when the efforts count most, is another. Students need to develop effective habits on how to focus and excel during exams. Wishing our kids and graduates the best of success in their studies! " PS. As for everybody's kids on this forum doing exceptionally well, this is just statistically impossible. I've been teaching, observing, providing feedback and grading university students (in different universities) for 8 years. In every class, there are 5% of students who excel and 95% --- who do not. From my experience, the root of 95% not reaching their potential resides in four above areas. I developed my course to try and help the 95% to grow into the best version of themselves at school and carry on those effective habits for further success in their lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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