4 year old can't remember letter names. Normal?

[jkl]

I feel ridiculous asking this because my current 4 year old is my 4th to do preschool at home, but I'll ask anyway.  Dd is 4.5 (will be 5 in Feb).  I have been "working" on letters with her for about 9 months (first just informally, and for the past few months, we've been doing AAR pre-level).  She is really struggling to remember letter names.  She knows maybe 6 letters consistently, and even those are sometimes shaky.  I probably wouldn't think much about it, except  she also has some speech issues (not formally diagnosed, but her speech is very often hard to understand), and our oldest daughter has an assortment of learning delays. Is it "normal" to struggle so much with letter names at this age? 

[EKS]

First of all, I wouldn't work on letter names.  I'd work on *sounds*.

That said, my son, who has dyslexia, had a lot of trouble learning the letter sounds (and names).  He also had trouble with reciting the alphabet, counting to 10 and, later, 100, the days of the week, months of the year, etc.  

 

[HomeAgain]

You are asking your child to name an abstract line and not be able to use that name in any sort of context to give it meaning.  Yeah, that's "aitch". We don't say "aitch" when we read, we don't do anything with it except name a squiggle and give it a place in a sequence.  It could be a memory issue, it could be that her brain isn't filing it as important enough to remember.

Does your dd have trouble with information she is using?  Does she understand the concept of numbers?

ETA: My youngest learned letter names after he was reading.  He did not struggle with the names, but at 8 still has to remind himself of the alphabet song when he is looking things up in the dictionary.

Edited September 15, 2018 by HomeAgain

[jkl]

Thanks for the replies.  I'm working on letter sounds mostly because I'm following AAR.  They teach the upper and lower case letter names and then the sounds. It's a good idea to teach the sounds first though!  She just recently began counting to 10 (almost) on her own.  She does seem to have trouble remembering words sometimes when she is talking.  Our pediatrician suggested a speech eval at our last appointment because of her articulation difficulties.  I feel like I may be hyper-sensitive to any signs of learning problems because I think we waited too long to get my oldest dd help, and I don't want to make the same mistake again.  But I also understand that all children are different!

[Southern Ivy]

My daughter still struggles at 6.5. She has auditory processing disorder and mixed expressive-receptive language disorder, so names and things are difficult for her. The letter names are hard for her and for a long time, even number identification as hard (and she's really good with math).  (The retention issue is what made us get pursue testing - after 2 years in preschool, she only knew A and X.) 

AAR did not work for us - in fact, it was downright painful.
Explode the Code's "pre" books (Get Ready/Get Set/Go for the Code) have been a life saver. She still struggles with retaining the sounds, but we're much further than we were last year at this time. If AAR isn't working well, the EtC books are only $6.95 on Rainbow Resource. So, not even $21 for all 3. 

If your ped is suggesting a speech eval, it can't hurt. 

Edited September 15, 2018 by Southern Ivy

[MerryAtHope]

Could be normal but definitely something to keep an eye on, especially since you have an older one with some learning delays. However, there are things you can do to help. I'd probably slow down the pace a bit and spend 2-3 days or even a week per letter and spend more time solidifying them. This article on How to Teach the Alphabet has lots of downloadable activities you can do, and the Pre-reading appendix has some additional ideas too. My one that really struggled didn't have any easier time learning sounds than learning letter names--being able to use it made no difference! And I've since read some research saying that both are actually important, and that the more complete knowledge kids have about letters, the better. That's one reason why Pre-reading works through both names and sounds. More things you can do:

• make letter of the day or week placemats
• Go on a letter-treasure hunt: Put letters on index cards and tape them on things around the house that start with a letter and have her find the letters, or just hide letters for her to find.
• Give her a fun pointer stick. As you both sing the alphabet song, she should point to each letter as it is sung. Do this every day.
• Play games: Take index cards or squares of paper. Write a letter of the alphabet on each piece of paper. Set out four NON-CONFUSABLE letters at a time. For example, set out a, b, e, and f. (Do not set out c and e together, or b and d.) Take turns being the teacher. The teacher says “Point to the f (or whatever letter).” If the student points to the correct letter, she gets to keep it. Continue until the student has collected all four letters. Over a period of days or weeks, gradually add in more letters. First work with the uppercase letters; then move on to the lowercase letters.
• Swatting Phonograms–have her “swat” letters on index cards as you say them. 
• Tape the letter cards to the wall and "throw snowballs" or shoot nerf darts at them as you or she calls out the letter.
• If she is also working on handwriting, have her work on writing the letter she is learning. Use tactile methods to practice letters, or practice them in various ways like a gel pen on black paper, or crayon that she paints over (or have her color with all different colors, then color over it with black, and use a coin or other object to write a letter–it will scratch away the black and the letter will be rainbow-colored).

I hope this gives you some ideas! Get Ziggy involved in learning the letters as well–many kids really respond to Ziggy. Have her teach her dolls or stuffed animals letters. Hang in there, she'll get it!

[ExcitedMama]

My DD was the same way and I posted the same question. I did AAR with my older DS and he never had a problem with the letter names. DD could not keep them straight like he could as we did AAR. We are now working on CVC words in AAR1 and she has all the sounds down perfectly but there are still a couple of letters that she can’t remember the name of even though she knows the sounds. 

[jkl]

22 hours ago, Southern Ivy said:

My daughter still struggles at 6.5. She has auditory processing disorder and mixed expressive-receptive language disorder, so names and things are difficult for her. The letter names are hard for her and for a long time, even number identification as hard (and she's really good with math).  (The retention issue is what made us get pursue testing - after 2 years in preschool, she only knew A and X.) 

AAR did not work for us - in fact, it was downright painful.
Explode the Code's "pre" books (Get Ready/Get Set/Go for the Code) have been a life saver. She still struggles with retaining the sounds, but we're much further than we were last year at this time. If AAR isn't working well, the EtC books are only $6.95 on Rainbow Resource. So, not even $21 for all 3. 

If your ped is suggesting a speech eval, it can't hurt. 

Thanks!  I'll keep that in mind as my plan B for sure!

17 hours ago, MerryAtHope said:

Could be normal but definitely something to keep an eye on, especially since you have an older one with some learning delays. However, there are things you can do to help. I'd probably slow down the pace a bit and spend 2-3 days or even a week per letter and spend more time solidifying them. This article on How to Teach the Alphabet has lots of downloadable activities you can do, and the Pre-reading appendix has some additional ideas too. My one that really struggled didn't have any easier time learning sounds than learning letter names--being able to use it made no difference! And I've since read some research saying that both are actually important, and that the more complete knowledge kids have about letters, the better. That's one reason why Pre-reading works through both names and sounds. More things you can do:

• make letter of the day or week placemats
• Go on a letter-treasure hunt: Put letters on index cards and tape them on things around the house that start with a letter and have her find the letters, or just hide letters for her to find.
• Give her a fun pointer stick. As you both sing the alphabet song, she should point to each letter as it is sung. Do this every day.
• Play games: Take index cards or squares of paper. Write a letter of the alphabet on each piece of paper. Set out four NON-CONFUSABLE letters at a time. For example, set out a, b, e, and f. (Do not set out c and e together, or b and d.) Take turns being the teacher. The teacher says “Point to the f (or whatever letter).” If the student points to the correct letter, she gets to keep it. Continue until the student has collected all four letters. Over a period of days or weeks, gradually add in more letters. First work with the uppercase letters; then move on to the lowercase letters.
• Swatting Phonograms–have her “swat” letters on index cards as you say them. 
• Tape the letter cards to the wall and "throw snowballs" or shoot nerf darts at them as you or she calls out the letter.
• If she is also working on handwriting, have her work on writing the letter she is learning. Use tactile methods to practice letters, or practice them in various ways like a gel pen on black paper, or crayon that she paints over (or have her color with all different colors, then color over it with black, and use a coin or other object to write a letter–it will scratch away the black and the letter will be rainbow-colored).

I hope this gives you some ideas! Get Ziggy involved in learning the letters as well–many kids really respond to Ziggy. Have her teach her dolls or stuffed animals letters. Hang in there, she'll get it!

Thank you so much for this.  I am already doing many of these things (we spend over a week on each letter, review often, and of course make extensive use of Ziggy!), but I'll try some of these other ideas as well! 

1 hour ago, ExcitedMama said:

My DD was the same way and I posted the same question. I did AAR with my older DS and he never had a problem with the letter names. DD could not keep them straight like he could as we did AAR. We are now working on CVC words in AAR1 and she has all the sounds down perfectly but there are still a couple of letters that she can’t remember the name of even though she knows the sounds. 

Thank you!  That is very reassuring!

[sweet2ndchance]

I think a speech eval sounds like a good idea in your daughter's case. I was going to say that I wouldn't be concerned with letter names if they can remember the sounds but the fact that she also has trouble counting to 10 at her age would concern me as well. Have you been counting things with her since she was a toddler? What about colors and shapes, how does she do with those? It could be just that she's child #4 and she hasn't gotten as much one-on-one time learning these things as the others did or it could a memory/recall problem. I would rather know now if it is the latter so that I can learn all I can to help her succeed in the coming years of learning basic reading and math skills.

[jkl]

37 minutes ago, sweet2ndchance said:

I think a speech eval sounds like a good idea in your daughter's case. I was going to say that I wouldn't be concerned with letter names if they can remember the sounds but the fact that she also has trouble counting to 10 at her age would concern me as well. Have you been counting things with her since she was a toddler? What about colors and shapes, how does she do with those? It could be just that she's child #4 and she hasn't gotten as much one-on-one time learning these things as the others did or it could a memory/recall problem. I would rather know now if it is the latter so that I can learn all I can to help her succeed in the coming years of learning basic reading and math skills.

She has known colors for a long time.  She can identify circle and triangle, but I honestly haven't spent that much time talking about shapes with her.  She has lots of exposure to counting things in her everyday environment, and she does better keeping track of what number comes next when she is actually counting things than she does when just asked to say the numbers to 10.  We'll probably take her in for a speech eval in the next few months.

[Southern Ivy]

Just popping in to add - I know your doctor is concerned about articulation. But, when you talk to the SLP, I would request a test like the CELF-5 or CASL or something similar - anything that can check language. 

 

[jkl]

4 hours ago, Southern Ivy said:

Just popping in to add - I know your doctor is concerned about articulation. But, when you talk to the SLP, I would request a test like the CELF-5 or CASL or something similar - anything that can check language. 

 

Thanks for this.  I will ask about it.

[PeterPan]

There's a CTOPP version normed to age 4, but good luck finding it. It sounds like she's at least having word retrieval and articulation difficulties. Have you had her hearing checked? It's the stuff we went through before getting my ds diagnosed at 6. 

It's not fun watching a train wreck, and the question is what you can do to get in front of it. A 5 yo should pass the screening for Barton (yes, for real, a 5 yo), so that's one direction to look. She'll be 5 soon and you could screen and begin intervention. 

I second using explicit materials. My ds did really well with the Attention Good Listeners workbook by DeGaetano. It's a little hard to find but a total gem. It improves their phoneme awareness with minimal difference pairs. Also, the CASL and CELF are kind of, well they're kinda frustrating tests. Yes they're language tests, but you'd have to be VERY SEVERE to have them flag anything. If it's dyslexia and nothing farther, it might not show. I've seen scorings like that. For my ds, with ASD2 and now admitted by all to have language issues, the CELF was barely showing anything at that age. The TILLS is all the rage now, but I'm not sure how low it goes. There are SLPs who specialize in literacy who will sometimes have it. It can show issues that aren't showing up on the CELF and CASL.

[PeterPan]

https://www.smartspeechtherapy.com/how-early-can-dyslexia-be-diagnosed-in-children/  Here's an interesting article about early identification...

[jkl]

Thank you!!  I'll check into all of this!  She seems to be doing a little better remembering letter names, so I'm hoping she's just a late bloomer.  I won't let it go too long, though.  We learned our lesson with our older dd!

[2_girls_mommy]

I just wanted to share my experience. Our current preschoolers are very close in age, and pretty similar in development. My oldest was a whiz kid. Taught herself letters and reading by 3. Before 4 could do multiplication and division in real world scenarios, and wrote herself long math problems for fun. All before any workbooks and such, just from us reading books together and her own interest. 

So when my next one came along, I tried to convince myself that her trouble with learning the sounds or even the fact that letters had sounds was just normal development since I knew my older had been way ahead of the game. But slowly it became more obvious that there were other issues, though minor. My guess is dyslexia. We didn't go with a formal diagnosis, instead sought help with a vision therapist which helped immensely with her reading related headaches and letter reversals and with a special ed teacher that worked with us on other ways to work on her spelling and other areas of education. Then I switched up a lot of the ways that we did school the last couple of years for her,  and she is doing fine for her. Major improvements.

So with my current four year old, I didn't get too serious about letters at all until this fall. She seems really interested and excited and really grasps some. Her R&S ABC workbooks have her doing some prephonics work and even some beginning sight words (color words,) and she seems to be grasping them. But she has trouble with the sounds. She may have a slight slight speech issue, but so slight that her dr. didn't think she did at all at her last well check, though I hear some strange substitutions. That may cause her a bit of trouble. She will be 5 in February, so I am glad we have that extra 6 months a year for maturing before she starts a new grade. My others are summer babies and are both so young for their grades. Currently I am waiting a bit to be worried about anything since she has just started to pick up steam with the letters. We are doing Preschool Math at Home, so we aren't doing a lot of counting beyond 10 yet. We are working more on one to one recognition and counting motions and sounds with that before moving on. So I think she is ok there. The couple of times I have heard my olders counting with her, she could go on beyond 10 pretty well. And she memorizes poetry, prayers, months of the year and days of the weeks, and songs and such pretty easily. 

So that is where we are, pretty close to where you are. I *think* as of right now that she is on track, but I am keeping my eye on the understanding sounds and phonics a bit. I don't get the same worried feeling I did with the middle child. 

[charlotteb]

The LeapFrog company has a DVD called "The Letter Factory" that is one of the best things to teach recognition of letters and sounds! Ive used it with my own children, as well as several of my young foster kids.

[homeschoolkitty]

We use an app, for practice.

 

Spell to Write and Read app