<sigh> VENT My kids hate everything I try.

[scbusf]

My kids are currently 8, 10, and 12 years old. They all have various learning issues - combos of ADHD, anxiety, dysgraphia, auditory processing disorder.

Last year, I had great curriculum for each kid with checklists for everything they needed to do each day. They were bored out of their minds.

This year, I decide to do a world geography year and create my own curriculum. We are reading aloud so. many. things. They are literally bouncing all over the place in the house.

I think I need something that's a good mix of reading and notebooking pages. I can't find anything like that for World Geography and country studies unless I make it all myself.

I'm open to suggestions.  I don't even know any more. I've tried so many curriculum options. I probably just need to pull up my big girl panties and tell the kids to deal with it. I mean, isn't snuggling on the couch and reading the BEST???

<sigh>

[LMCme]

They seem to have it in their heads that your job is to make it fun.  Don't get me wrong, it's nice when it's fun, but at the end of the day your job is to make sure they learn what they need to know to be well educated adults, not to entertain them every day.  Lots of moms get wrapped up in the idea that it's supposed to be entertaining, but if your kids are just rejecting everything then it's time to tell them what they are going to do (bored or not, having fun or not) and then do it.  Once they are used to doing as you ask without complaining, you can go back to including more fun stuff.  It can be helpful to have an outside observer go through what you're doing and your kids reactions if you are worried your kids might be right, or unsure of what needs to be covered (the other parent can help with this sometimes).

 

Best,

l

[HomeAgain]

20 minutes ago, scbusf said:

I'm open to suggestions.  I don't even know any more. I've tried so many curriculum options. I probably just need to pull up my big girl panties and tell the kids to deal with it. I mean, isn't snuggling on the couch and reading the BEST???

<sigh>

I think so. ?  My youngest...well, he and I have a different opinion of "great".  I loved the years I spent with his brother getting all hands on and going on adventures and using literature to springboard.  But this kid?  He's 8 this year and I gave him quite a bit of input into his work, trying a few of my own things on a few subjects.  He is not a fan of my picks. LOL  And I think his are dull as dirt. BUT....because he picked them, he's doing them and liking the work.  We just had our end of week conference and while he admits the writing made him tired, he doesn't want to change a thing.  Except the fun stuff I want to do next week.  He doesn't want to do that.  ?  He wants to do his "fun" stuff instead.

[HomeAgain]

Oh, and here's a world geography that is a mix of reading and notebook pages.  It says 6-8, but I've been able to use some of her other products for a wider age range than it says: https://weefolkart.com/homeschool/curriculum-themes-guides/cultural-connections-overview/

[EmseB]

I think you need to pick something and stick with it and just insist they do the work or listen to the read aloud or whatever. If they are truly bored, maybe they need more challenging/difficult material or writing to accomplish. For my kids, if they tell me something (anything, not just school) they have to do is boring, or they are bored, that always results in more work for them with more challenges. Sometimes they love it. Most of the time they just didn't want to be doing whatever I've asked of them. Yes, kiddo, not all of learning is going to be exhilarating or your favorite.

If you have tried so many options and not stuck with them, there's no way to know what actually works. Consistency is a big part of helping kids learn well, even if it is not their most favorite thing to be learning or doing.

 

[8filltheheart]

I let my hyper kid sit and play with Legos while I read. He can multitask and not miss a beat. 

[acresoft]

If your interested in reading and notebooking, maybe Winter Promise.

[katilac]

1 hour ago, scbusf said:

 They are literally bouncing all over the place in the house.

 

 

Can you elaborate on this? Lots of kids are wiggly and bouncy and still perfectly able to listen and comprehend, so that alone doesn't call for a switch. 

If they're annoying you or each other, have you tried a quiet activity while they listen? A coloring page related to the reading is great, Legos or blocks, anything to occupy the eyes and hands. 

This is how we did notebooking: Step one: Read. Step two: Okay, kids, make a notebook page! 

Seriously. I left it completely up to them, whatever popped into their head after reading. We used paper we printed from The Tanglewood School that had a little timeline to mark at the top, and then either four small squares or one big square and a small text box. Sometimes we used the paper from the store that just has a box for drawing and then lines for writing. Keep it simple. 

 

Ancient history samples, about 8 yrs old: #1, the fIRST NomADS written above timeline. Drawing of people, trees, and butterflies marked KIDS and mother hunting. Written below: LIfe was hard way back then. I'm glaD that I Never LIVed way Back then! #2, ASSYria written above timeline. Four picture squares: man with crown marked AShurbanipal; man on all fours marked AShurbanipal as animal; man with shield and man with . . . catapult, maybe? marked War; two spears jutting onto dark scribbles, marked Breaking Down a Wall. 

Medieval history sample the next year, about 9 years old: The early days of England written above timeline. Four picture squares: a drawing marked Beowulf and Grendal, a drawing marked Celtic Warrior with Sword, a drawing marked Grendal's arm that Beowulf took off in the Battle, writing only final square: The Celtic Warriors painted themselves Blue, Just so that they would look fierce in Battle. Weird, eh? Fact. 

In addition to amusing myself, I wanted to show how they naturally added more detail and writing as they did it a lot and got older. 

You can do history/geography notebooks without a lot of DIY or purchase of curriculum. Back in the day, most of us did it according to The Well Trained Mind, first edition style. Story of the World wasn't out yet, and SWB rec'd history encyclopedias as a spine with living books to correlate. History for younger grades was basically: write and draw about what you read in the encyclopedia, mark on a timeline, find the area on the globe and map, color the area on a blackline map, go to the library for more books on the topic. Older grades had a binder with sections like Great Men and Women, Daily Life, Wars and Politics - I think there were about 8. We found this needlessly complicated and just kept our old style of notebooking whatever they wanted, however they wanted. iirc, middle grades added outlining (we never did much of this) and primary sources, higher grades added essays. All grades had various things rec'd for memorization. 

We did use SOTW and the activity guide with maps after they came out, my kids loved them and it made my life simple. But you very much can go with the history encyclopedia of your choice, notebooking and marking maps after you read, and adding in books. 

For high school, we used The Humanistic Tradition as our main spine with SWB's history of the world books on audio mixed in. 

That's my dissertation on history for today. The cats keep distracting me and I keep forgetting how much I've written. 

[sweet2ndchance]

Not all kids are snuggly read aloud types.

My oldest son was a "just the facts so I can be done and do what I want" type.

My second oldest was a "I need something to do with my hands but then I will listen for as long as you want" type.

My oldest daughter was a "I'll sit nearby but I don't want to snuggle and if at all possible I'd rather just read it myself and discuss it with you" type.

My younger daughter and second youngest son were snuggly read aloud types but I imagine that had something to do with they spent hours being nursed to sleep as I read aloud to the older kids.

My youngest son is a "I need something to do with my hands and I want to see the pictures but I don't want to snuggle" type.

As old as your children are, I can't imagine doing hours of snuggly read alouds if that isn't how they are used to doing school since they were young. And yes there comes a point, especially with pre-teens where as a parent you need to grow a thick skin and say "I'm sorry you feel that way but it is my job to teach you what you need to know and your job to learn." And if you think they can add anything constructive you might add, "Do you have any ideas on how we can accomplish both of our jobs?" By middle school, I start giving them some say in how and what they want to learn. Then if they complain about a curriculum choice, I just remind them that it was their pick and they can choose differently next semester or next year, which ever is applicable. I only allow them to jump ship middle curriculum if I completely agree with them that it won't accomplish our goals or has some other flaw. "I don't like it and I don't want to do this stupid thing" is not a curriculum flaw most of the time, it is an attitude problem and is treated as such.

[Bay Lake Mom]

Do you think your kids really learn best with lots of read aloud books and notebook pages?

For several years I pushed this method on my kids - because I liked it. I recently discovered that my 10 yo dd just wants to “get it done”.  She chose Notgrass Uncle Sam & You this year, and she’s doing it mostly on her own. She’s learning a lot, and she’s happy. I think some kids struggle with sitting on the couch and listening to Mom read. They simply learn easier by reading on their own.  Your 10 & 12 yo are probably ready for that.  

Im not advocating a curriculum switch, but you might consider if your choices meet their learning styles. 

[Another Lynn]

14 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

I let my hyper kid sit and play with Legos while I read. He can multitask and not miss a beat. 

This.  They need to move while you're reading, so give them something to do that will allow them to be active with less chaos.  

[RenaInTexas]

Oh no, my boys hated sitting on the couch while learning. I moved the couch out of the room. Now, they stand in their chairs and spin (among other things) while listening to history. They complete a listening worksheet after they listen and they are able to answer most questions correctly.

Could it be your delivery? Perhaps take a good look at the kids and determine how they learn best and adjust your delivery methods accordingly.

[kristin0713]

My kids are 12 and 10 and this year I made the switch from lots of read alouds to only ONE.  This is because it became a constant struggle to keep them focused last year and I felt totally disrespected by the fooling around, coloring pages/markers everywhere, and interruptions.  We have had many wonderful years of literature rich learning, but now it's time for them to take more ownership of their day.  No more "mommy reads everything while we fool around."  I put them in VP self-paced history, and separated them for science.  They are continuing to do their own literature readings and some related copywork and comprehension activities.  We  are doing one family read aloud at a time this year, sometimes connected to history and sometimes not.  Math is what it is.  I found through trial and error last year that I needed to separate them but still give them variety in what they were doing everyday, so that it wasn't ALL workbooks or ALL led by me.  I'm helping them with whatever they need and overseeing their science experiments, but I'm not doing their work for them.  It has only been one week but I'm so much happier.  They are doing great, too.  

So in your situation, is there a way to take what you have already planned and modify it for each child?  Give them age appropriate books to read and notebook about, so that you aren't reading everything.  Pick ONE read aloud for the family.  Maybe there is an online program they could try to break up the day.  (I am not big on doing the entire school day in front of a screen, but one or two subjects can give them more ownership and take a little off your plate.)  I'm not too familiar with what is out there for world geography as far as filling an entire year, but I'm sure it can be done.  Best of luck!

[kristin0713]

If you want pre-made notebooking pages, check out https://notebookingpages.com/about-us 

I haven't used it but they do have quite a bit.  Go to the library for every unit and pull books of all levels.  Maybe your 12yo and 10yo can read selections from some of the books you've already planned, and add some picture books for the 8yo.  You might have already planned to do this, but you can add MaryAnn Kohl's Global Art for art projects from around the world and I'm sure there is a good cookbook for recipes from around the world.  Reading, note booking, and one project a week.  

[scbusf]

Thank you, everyone!!!!

I do let them do quiet things while I read - then someone picks up a cat, another kid wants to pet the cat, someone throws the cat, Legos spill all over the hard floor, one kid messes up her drawing and cries in frustration - it's distraction city!!!!

I do think reducing the read alouds is an excellent idea for us. Also, I had been eyeing the WinterPromise Notebooking pages, so I went ahead and bought those last night.

[8filltheheart]

16 minutes ago, scbusf said:

Thank you, everyone!!!!

I do let them do quiet things while I read - then someone picks up a cat, another kid wants to pet the cat, someone throws the cat, Legos spill all over the hard floor, one kid messes up her drawing and cries in frustration - it's distraction city!!!!

I do think reducing the read alouds is an excellent idea for us. Also, I had been eyeing the WinterPromise Notebooking pages, so I went ahead and bought those last night.

It is an unpopular choice, but I don't combine my kids for anything if I can help it.  I sit and read with them 1-on-1 for their subjects. Group teaching has failed in our family with the exception of a very few specific times (and it was when they were older, not little.)

[Porridge]

+1 to what LCMme wrote.  

Have you read the Narnia series?  I have one child who is basically Puddleglum. When I finally realized that, it was quite liberating. Now I expect to hear complaints, but just try to let it roll off and keep moving on. 

[Targhee]

My three oldest all have ADHD and each have at least one other thing going on. Here’s what worked at our house for those ages:

1. Morning Basket while they ate breakfast, which allowed me to squeeze in bits of stuff I thought important while their mouths were occupied.  We followed this with audiobook while they busied hands with crafts or legos or the like.

2. Next was non-negotiables - Math, writing, reading/spelling, grammar. We did this on rotation in short lessons and breaks.

3. Lunch 

4. Personal Studies - this is where I was able to get their buy-in, and where their out-of-the-Box thinking shone. They covered science, history, and interests this way. At the beginning of each semester I have a one:one meeting (usually at frozen yogurt place) and I talk to them about what they want to learn. I have a few parameters (they need to have books to read, so ideas for books; they need to have something from history; need to have an area of science; need to have an area of self-improvement; can add interests outside those categories). I write things down, and make suggestions if I think of them then, but mostly this is info gathering.  Then later I research a little and presentbthem with some options (for many things they actually research though), and they chose.  Then every week we meet and review the last week and plan the next week.  If they have chosen a curriculum it’s usually putting the next parts on their weekly checklist.  If it is their personal interest I will ask “how many days are you going to study it this week?” and put it on the checklist accordingly. I show them how to look up things at the library and request books, and they work from them.  Examples of things my kids did for personal study time: SOTW2 (by request, audiobook, coloring from activity book, and map work), Snap Circuits student project book, designing and sewing stuffed animals, Science Olympiad studying and project work, typing program, online leadership class, AOPS elective classes, Magic Schoolbus human body kit, Thames and Kosmos Astronomy kit, First LEGO League work, programming with Scratch, Spanish with Rosetta Stone, and lots of small things they started learning about and then switched interests.

My kids learned so much through those years.  And it wasn’t just content, it was about executive skills!! Making a plan, executing, following through/accountability, etc.  My middle dd is now full time public school, oldest is dual enrollment, and youngest is still just doing morning Basket and the non-negotiables,but this is still roughly the way we do things with DS.  He may still lose a million pencils a day but he’s managing AOPS self-paced Math, Lukeion Latin, and onlineG3 history on his own! He still dislikes English, but he knows he can endure it with basic cooperation and effort because he has the things he *wants* to do as well.

The Adhd puzzle is hard, I know.  Best wishes to you!

[sweet2ndchance]

It takes time and patience, a bucket load of patience, to train children to play quietly for a read aloud. And sometimes open ended play isn't the best activity for everyone during a read aloud, sometimes they need to be given a specific quiet task. Perhaps read aloud time is too long for all your kiddos if distractions are popping up left and right. I would start with 5 minutes and then build up in 5 minute increments until you reach your goal read aloud time which I would say probably no more than 30 minutes for them all as a group.

If you still want to do some read alouds but do them individually, you might try an "I read to you, you read to me" approach. The child reads a page then you read a page and so on. That is a fun way to continue read alouds if they are the type of kid that would enjoy that. But for them to get any meaning out of it, they need to be fluent readers. If they are struggling every other sentence still to sound out words, the reading level is too high for them to also get meaning out of it.

A blanket on the floor that the Legos must stay on will reduce the noise that Legos can make on hard surfaces. They do need to be trained to keep the Legos only on the blanket though or the Legos will be put up. And if you want it to be a quick training you have to be willing to put them up each and every time they start pushing them off the blanket.

Also don't forget audiobooks in the car when you have a captive audience lol! Pause it every once in a while to discuss what is happening or what might happen next to break it up and reduce the possibility of them creating distractions because they are bored.

[Targhee]

On 9/7/2018 at 6:58 AM, RenaInTexas said:

Could it be your delivery? Perhaps take a good look at the kids and determine how they learn best and adjust your delivery methods accordingly.

These are good points.

Figuring out their learning styles and trying to meet them will help a lot. Maybe audio isn’t their input modality - it was for two of my four kids so we could do some read alouds. They did one ~30 min read aloud (audiobook of great literature, not necessarily content area literature), and then the years they did SOTW they listened to the audiobook of that for ~10 min. I read short things in morning basket like poetry, a short bio anecdote, maybe a fable, but not a ton.

Most WTM approaches did not work for my ADHD kids. Listen and narrate? Um, no way. Write from dictation? Pulling teeth. Memorization was ok, but not of lists or facts out of context (we memorized poetry). Writing was not the best way for them to internalize or for me to assess what they learned. We discussed a lot, oral question and answer, and tried to use hands-on or multi-sensory input when possible (ie one child preferred classical music in the background while doing copy work and reading, another wire ear pro to block it out; they were allowed to sit/rock/bounce as was comfortable as long as it didn’t distract others; we did lots of audio in the car where there was deep felt motion from driving and visual variety out the windows; one child preferred to work in low light; etc).

Also, we used audiobooks instead of mom reading aloud most of the time. Although I consider myself a decent reader, the kids needed variety. 

Raising three kids who think completely differently than I do has been very hard for me. But it becomes easier, and my children happier and more engaged, when I recognize the difference as a difference and not a detriment, and get behind them instead of dragging them through their education in the way that makes sense to me. But still, it can be very difficult and most people won’t understand the struggle. ? I keep adding to this post hoping something of my experiences a few years down the road from you might help you and your family. Keep up the hard work, and let love rule. My sincerest best wishes!

[73349]

Sorry it's not going according to plan.

A few possibilities: print some blackline maps and let them trace with tracing paper on clipboards; make at least the older one read a paragraph for you now and then; or teach them to knit or crochet so they can do that and keep both hands occupied while they listen.

Myself, I just can't stand being read to. I avoid podcasts, audiobooks, etc. If you have a kid who's like that, at least provide a second copy to let him/her read along (and possibly get ahead). DS, on the other hand, is happy to listen but would definitely not want to color/draw/notebook while doing so.

[Skippy]

I think for many of us, snuggling on the couch is the ideal form of educating. But this doesn't mean it is ideal for each individual child or the particular combination of your three children. I think you probably need to experiment a little. Maybe one or two of the children would love snuggling on the couch while you read aloud while the others need a workbook, textbook, or something else. Things also change when kids start to grow up. Even children (especially boys) who like snuggling with Mom reading will likely grow out of this at age 12. Hang in there! It is hard to find the perfect fit, and even the perfect fit is never really perfect.

[MerryAtHope]

I hope the WP notebooking pages end up being helpful! 

Have you tried breaking up the read-alouds more? I found it helped my kids not be so antsy if we did Bible and history in the am, Science after lunch, and literature at bedtime. 

Sometimes it helps to have them run around for 30-60 minutes outside first too, to get a lot of the wiggles out. 

Maybe ban legos and the cat from read-aloud time and instead do things like coloring or squeezing a hand toy? Or have the legos already dumped so they don't make so much noise mid-story? I did find with my kids that we went through a season of needing assigned seating out of arms reach of each other, LOL! (There's a reason that some story-hour providers use carpet squares!)  Sometimes we did a read-aloud AT a meal so they had a definite seat and were busy eating! 

If possible, let your kids have some say in choosing curriculum. I used to ask what they liked and didn't like about each subject (individually--not collectively!) to get feedback. Sometimes when they "hated school," they really only hated one subject. I'd get feedback as we had a nice snack, and then I'd search things out, find a couple of possibilities, and show them some online samples and talk some more. I let them know the final decision was mine but that I'd take their feedback into consideration. It helped to get some buy-in. 

I hope things turn around here for you and your kids!

[...................]

To me, the best thing for this situation is not more creativity but less.  Once kids hit a certain age, it's sometimes best to make things super streamlined so that they can take charge of their schedules, their education, and ultimately their lives.  I think a lot of times homeschool moms forget that as kids get to the middle school years they need to be empowered.  THe more you try to entertain, the more notebooking, fun, creative projects, etc, the worse it'll get. It feels good for the mom to be "so involved" and to be "reading aloud" but honestly, it's not healthy for your kids, especially if they do not enjoy or appreciate it.  You're simply setting yourself up for a nagging relationship which can become very dysfunctional.

I would suggest finding extremely streamlined programs and having clear, attainable expectations.  When the kids have a few good days and they start to see how good it feels to be in control of their own day, they will create new habits that are good habits and little by little you will see them being cheerful, independent and reliable.  I would do a mix of something like Time4Learning with workbooks that have teaching included.  The less you can be the direct nagger, the better.  The more self teaching the program is the better.  For the 12 year old you can start online classes and remove yourself completely from the teaching.  

In this situation the worst thing you can do (IMO) is to coddle them or try to entertain them.  They need accountability and consistency with clear rewards and consequences.

 

(Just an FYI I homeschooled my kids exclusively and did many many years of SL, FIAR, and read alouds.  BUT at around 6th grade each of my kids clearly showed me that they were ready to become independent learners.  The process can be started now with your 8 year old, though that child may still need more direct teaching than the others)....so please don't think I am someone who does not champion read alouds, cuddling on the couch, etc.  but those things have their time. ?

[EKS]

On 9/7/2018 at 3:44 PM, JHLWTM said:

I have one child who is basically Puddleglum. 

This is the perfect description of my son!  Eeyore isn't quite right, but Puddleglum is!  Thank you.