Relatives and long(er) visits... please help me figure out what to do/say

[unsinkable]

1 hour ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

I don't believe it's the job of other people to make sure someone's feelings aren't hurt.  People are not made of fragile glass. We're talking about your adult sister, right? And she did just ask you if it was too long, so I'm guessing she's somewhat in tune with your feelings.  She asked.  Answer honestly. I'm not clear on if you want to or not.  When you say 2 nights and I'm spent, does that mean you want her to come for 2 nights max and spend yourself, or do you mean that because you don't want to at all 2 nights is your mental/emotional breaking point? If you do want her to, but know it will cost you dearly emotionally, then say something like,   "I'm glad to have you stay two nights with us.  Which ones should I plan for?" If you don't want to just tell her, "Sorry, I'm stretched too thin these days for hosting, but I'd love to meet you for coffee/lunch and catch up.  Just let me know when and where."

I don't know your sister so I have to consider different possibilities. If she asked about it being too long insincerely because she knows it's asking too much but knows you won't say so, don't fall for it.  She needs to feel the discomfort of being disingenuous. Intentionally misunderstand the subtext and respond to her as though you think she's asking an honest, straightforward question.   If she was being honest (I'm going to assume she was because no one likes it when people assume they were lying or manipulating) then she'll be glad to hear your honest response.  If not, it's on her, not you. Adults should expect to pay for all of their own travel costs, including housing. And no, it's absolutely not your job to send her links to local hotels, air BNBs, etc.  Grown ups find their own accommodations when they travel.  If they're not willing to do that, then they shouldn't travel.  Offering to do it for her is infantalizing her.

Since we're being honest, I think you should seek out some counseling because, based on your original post, I think you could use help with boundaries and not feeling responsible for other adults.

Your last paragraph is a complete over reaction. As usual.

 

[SereneHome]

OK, so I was wrong.  I just read OP's update and with that kind of "guest", I would be more blunt than usual, bc frankly, my tolerance for intolerant people is way way low.

For those who say they want complete honesty, I am not sure 100% honesty would be a great idea in this instance.  100% honesty would be saying " I can't tolerate your special diet and your views and judgements for 7 days, I am wiped out after 3". 

I would say that 7 days would completely throw our schedule off and it takes a long time to catch up, so 3 days would be much easier to handle. 

 

[Pen]

2 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

OK, so I was wrong.  I just read OP's update and with that kind of "guest", I would be more blunt than usual, bc frankly, my tolerance for intolerant people is way way low.

For those who say they want complete honesty, I am not sure 100% honesty would be a great idea in this instance.  100% honesty would be saying " I can't tolerate your special diet and your views and judgements for 7 days, I am wiped out after 3". 

I would say that 7 days would completely throw our schedule off and it takes a long time to catch up, so 3 days would be much easier to handle. 

 

 

How about polite honesty. Not complete. 

 

Polite honesty at this point would be something like, “I’ve just realized I can only have you stay over at our house and visit with you on the weekend. The other days would be too much for us on top of work and other commitments. I wanted to tell you right away so you can make other arrangements for your trip.”  

[SereneHome]

2 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

How about polite honesty. Not complete. 

 

Polite honesty at this point would be something like, “I’ve just realized I can only have you stay over at our house and visit with you on the weekend. The other days would be too much for us on top of work and other commitments. I wanted to tell you right away so you can make other arrangements for your trip.”  

 

that's already not very honest, based on OP.  Minus that, I think the rest of the phrase is honest and *I* would say it in  a hearbeat

The question now is: what will  make OP feel worse - saying that to her sister or dealing with 7 day visit.

 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, SereneHome said:

 

that's already not very honest, based on OP.  Minus that, I think the rest of the phrase is honest and *I* would say it in  a hearbeat

The question now is: what will  make OP feel worse - saying that to her sister or dealing with 7 day visit.

 

 

OP has already said that *anyone* visiting for 3 nights wipes her out. And if she is only now coming into realization of the importance of her own needs and the legitimacy of them versus her sister’s preferences, that is a current realization.  Or if she only now realized that her sister set up the 2 choice scenario in a way that made speaking up about her needs almost impossible, that also is a current realization.

 I think that the way op was still explaining to us how she was trying to be polite etc., may indicate that she still has not really realized, not really heard her own statements of what her max comfort for a visit is  yet. 

Maybe she will come to realize it next week or maybe next year. Maybe she won’t be able to bring herself to make a change now, but at end of visit can say, “Sis, this was too much for me.  In future I am going to need you to stay at a hotel or Airbnb or with other people you know.” 

Maybe after 10 years of therapy she will get to the aha! Realization stage  

 

[HS Mom in NC]

3 hours ago, unsinkable said:

Your last paragraph is a complete over reaction. As usual.

 

The OP is so far out of the range of normal in this area she needs professional help to address the underlying cause and teach her how to establish a boundary of being able to say, "Yes, that's too long." when she was asked, "Is that too long?" If you think being terrified or hurting a person's feelings and not being able to imagine saying, "...would 5 nights work?" is in the range of normal then you have a lot of explaining to do about her post: 

On 9/2/2018 at 7:20 PM, Janie Grace said:

Is this my issue? Do I need to learn how to NOT be hyper aware and hyper sensitive? Or is it okay to say "that's a bit too long for us in this particular season... would 5 nights work"? Even that I cannot imagine saying... I'm terrified of hurting her feelings and making her feel unwelcome. UGH, what do I do???

Sure, we can all tell her it's perfectly OK to say so, but who are we?  Strangers on the internet.  No one that upset about the idea of answering the question honestly is only having trouble with this particular situation.  This runs deeper.  We're not qualified to address the totality of it, and she needs to be freed from these kinds of fears controlling how she interacts with people.  This is no way to live. She deserves some peace we can't give her.

[Pen]

If the sister is actually a very kind person, op might be able to say, “ I just realized that I am not at all good at speaking up for my own needs and saying no, but much as I want to see you and pil (“person-in-law”)  and your dear child, more than 2 nights is just too much for me. “ 

ETA : but sister might react nicely to that even though op cannot say something like that due to her own controlling fear and anxiety. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Pen

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

If the sister is actually a very kind person, op might be able to say, “ I just realized that I am not at all good at speaking up for my own needs and saying no, but much as I want to see you and pil (“person-in-law”)  and your dear child, more than 2 nights is just too much for me. “ 

ETA : but sister might react nicely to that even though op cannot say something like that due to her own controlling fear and anxiety. 

 

I giggled when I read “person-in-law.”

If that qualifies me as insensitive, so be it. ?

[Pen]

12 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

The OP is so far out of the range of normal in this area she needs professional help to address the underlying cause and teach her how to establish a boundary of being able to say, "Yes, that's too long." when she was asked, "Is that too long?" If you think being terrified or hurting a person's feelings and not being able to imagine saying, "...would 5 nights work?" is in the range of normal then you have a lot of explaining to do about her post: 

 

 

Also, she cannot imagine saying would 5 nights work—yet her first post said that 2 nights is her personal maximum. 

And it isn’t as if this is an emergency situation like the sister needing to be in the area to consult a medical specialist for the dd who has a rare disease ... where other family members bending their own schedule and needs to try to help would seem meaningful. 

[Um_2_4]

Are they going to go anywhere else on your side of the country? I can not imagine flying across country for a 2 day visit. I would be prepared for them to cancel. If I fly that far, I'll be at least a week. 

Keep in mind my frame of reference is a minimum guest stay of a week. But really, relax. Provide info, options (I guess they are renting a car?) and let them know when you can hang out or go to the museum with them and then chill. Maybe talk about meals with her if that is an issue.

I've had guests stay 3-6 months, but at that point, they are not expecting me to entertain every day. I'll drop them off at the train station or the mall if they want. (We have commuter trains that run to LA, Hollywood, etc.) I provide clean place to sleep, self serve breakfast options, a hot meal at the end of the day (usually something reheatable, so serve yourself). Seriously make a meal plan/schedule that works for you and email it to her.

Maybe say "since you'll be here for a bit, I thought we should plan out meals and I wanted to let you know when we will lbe available, what with my work commitments and kid's schooling. If you want to cook for you guys, just let me know what nights." Email is easier. She can digest on her own time and adjust her plans as needed and you won't be worried about her immediate reactions.

[Janie Grace]

Thanks everyone. First of all, I admit I'm a wimp when it comes to letting people down, especially my sister. Part of it is personality (I'm an enneagram 2, if that helps anyone). Part of it is our history (very emotionally unstable household, I was her surrogate parent; she tells people "my sister raised me"). Part of it is her -- she has cut off two close female relatives already. Granted, those were far more extreme cases than their not being willing to host her for as long as she wants but still... I think that exerts power over me, even though I'm 99.9% sure she'd never cut me out of her life. These are not good excuses not to stick up for myself, I am just explaining a bit of the backstory.

I am definitely not proposing that I only let her stay 2 nights. If close family is coming from the opposite side of the country, I don't expect to only host them for a weekend. I'm just saying that going beyond that taxes me a lot. But I think part of this is because of HOW I host. I am basically available all waking hours, cooking/fixing all meals, providing all entertainment, being "up." For whatever reason (upbringing maybe), this is how I think of overnight hospitality... kind of like being a B&B operator and BFF at the same time. This thread has helped me see that I can and should change this. Breakfast can be mostly "on your own" (I will provide good options for them and probably cook once or twice but that's it). I will see the kitchen as for their use rather the place from which I serve them. And even though it feels really weird, I think it *is* okay (and good for me) to pick times (like when their kid is napping) to pop off to the library or coffee shop and work (or not work!) for the sake of my own sanity. I liked the idea of going to bed at 9:00 too.

I also plan to ask if they can spend the night in this other city when they visit the friends there. I don't know how to word that without sound inhospitable but maybe something like "now that __ is a year older, do you think she'd be okay to spend the night in ___ when you go? That would be a bit easier on us in terms of the evening and morning craziness..." Or something. I really don't know how to say it.

I'm honestly in awe that so many of you have no qualms about simply speaking your mind without fear of hurting other people. I'm not being snarky or passive aggressive; I just do not live in a world like that. My husband is super sensitive to offending others too, so I guess we don't have a balancing factor in our marriage. We tend to overcommit as a result, but we are getting better. He helped me say no to someone recently who wanted to stay with us just because we have company the following weekend and I *knew* it would be too much for me two weekends in a row. But it was HARD to say no. 

[Pen]

What are the positive qualities  she brings into your life?

 

[Pen]

32 minutes ago, Janie Grace said:

honestly in awe that so many of you have no qualms about simply speaking your mind without fear of hurting other people.

 

I do have qualms about hurting others. I try not to hurt others.

I also have learned that I need to put my own oxygen mask on first.  And I don’t assume that others are going to be “hurt” by my stating something about my own abilities and limitations, or even preferences. 

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Pen

[Mbelle]

I do regularly host family for extended amounts of time up to a month.  This is normal for my family though, so i'm more mentally used to it.

I think two things have to happen to make this successful.  The guests have to know how to be good guests and the hosts have to mostly live their regular lives, but accept there will be some changes.

I'm sensitive like you and also so is my husband.  I have come around to calmly discussing issues though as they arise.  Something like ....I really appreciate that you xyz, but I feel xyz so maybe we could It  ABC instead...seems to work pretty well, but some personanlities either don't comprehend or get mad.  That makes it tough, but not really my problem.

It sounds like your sis and husband need to step off their soap boxes on some issues.  Somehow they need to figure out these are not good topics of conversation.

Another thing I do is that I do not make breakfasts or lunches for long term guests.  I do make sure I have extra things on hand and especially when they arrive.  I let them know there's plenty of room in the fridge or pantry to store stuff if they need to.  I cook supper anyway so I will just cook extra.  A thoughtful guest would offer to cook one night though, or take you out.  You may have to ask if they would like to cook one night or which night they would like to cook.

If it is a long term guests I have friends or family in the area that will have us over for supper and socialize. 

I also use paper plates and other paper products.  

Sometimes it is a bit exhausting to host and I totally understand about it taking the same amount of time to get over depending on who is visitng.

[Pen]

35 minutes ago, Janie Grace said:

Part of it is our history (very emotionally unstable household, I was her surrogate parent; she tells people "my sister raised me"). Part of it is her -- she has cut off two close female relatives already.

 

Is your relationship balanced and mutually giving at this stage in your life? 

 

[SKL]

I too find it very hard to speak my mind.

I would find it hard to say no to a request.  But what might help is to talk openly about your limitations at another time, when it isn't about her.  If it helps, say it's something that has gotten worse as you've gotten older, or as some physical condition has progressed, or as you've had more kids or your kids got older or whatever.  (I.e. that is why you never said these things before.)

Then next time, if she asks for 7 days, you could remind her of that conversation and offer to make the massive effort to accommodate her for 4 days because she is so special that it's worth it.

This unfortunately won't work for the current self-invite though.

[PS I think your sister sounds like a drama queen, but hey, at least you will have something to talk about after she leaves.]

[Pen]

3 hours ago, Janie Grace said:

also plan to ask if they can spend the night in this other city when they visit the friends there. I don't know how to word that without sound inhospitable but maybe something like "now that __ is a year older, do you think she'd be okay to spend the night in ___ when you go? That would be a bit easier on us in terms of the evening and morning craziness..." Or something. I really don't know how to say it.

 

“It would mean a lot to me if you would spend the night in _______, when you’re there. It would be much easier on us in terms of evening and morning craziness.”

[gardenmom5]

3 hours ago, Janie Grace said:

Thanks everyone. First of all, I admit I'm a wimp when it comes to letting people down, especially my sister. Part of it is personality (I'm an enneagram 2, if that helps anyone). Part of it is our history (very emotionally unstable household, I was her surrogate parent; she tells people "my sister raised me"). Part of it is her -- she has cut off two close female relatives already. Granted, those were far more extreme cases than their not being willing to host her for as long as she wants but still... I think that exerts power over me, even though I'm 99.9% sure she'd never cut me out of her life. These are not good excuses not to stick up for myself, I am just explaining a bit of the backstory.

 

so from previous posts - she's an intolerant bigot against anything she doens't like and no one is allowed to do in front of her, or she what? throws a fit?  gets on her soap box and lectures till the cows come  home?

 she's cut off two relatives already, and you  *are* afraid she'll cut you off too if you make her unhappy.

I will tell you, some people are not worth bending over backwards trying to make them happy - becasue they don't know how to be happy!   they bully and badger people into agreeing with them to continue the echo chamber so they think they're wonderful - but they're not "happy". and that is NOT a "relationship of equals".

tell her you love her, and what works FOR YOU in *your* house.  if she has a snit - that is on her.

Edited September 4, 2018 by gardenmom5

[Pen]

3 hours ago, Janie Grace said:

as long as she wants but still... I think that exerts power over me, even though I'm 99.9% sure she'd never cut me out of her life. 

 

If these sorts of explanations were being given about a husband, I think people would be telling you that not all abuse is physical, and that you should be making plans to get away from the Emotionally abusive husband.  

 

[Pen]

An important reason to change the way you deal with your sister —even if you are happy with the status quo—is that you are teaching your children that it is good to submit to someone exerting emotionally manipulative power over you. You are teaching them by example to be passive doormats rather than assertive about their own needs. And failing to teach them to recognize someone who is manipulative and controlling. 

[gardenmom5]

5 minutes ago, Pen said:

An important reason to change the way you deal with your sister —even if you are happy with the status quo—is that you are teaching your children that it is good to submit to someone exerting emotionally manipulative power over you. You are teaching them by example to be passive doormats rather than assertive about their own needs. And failing to teach them to recognize someone who is manipulative and controlling. 

THIS!!!!!

 

p.s. - becasue they think this is normal, they will end up in other relationships outside the family with this same dynamic. kids need to learn relationships of equals from their parents relationships- with siblings, grandparents, etc.etc.  if they see their parent be a doormat, they learn to be a doormat.  

I watched this with my mother - as a teen, I held her in contempt.   as an adult, I realized she had been emotionally abused by her mother and was broken.  I loved her, but she was never "my mother" that I could ever turn to for emotional support.  she didn't have it to give.

Edited September 4, 2018 by gardenmom5

[Rosie_0801]

4 hours ago, Janie Grace said:

I'm honestly in awe that so many of you have no qualms about simply speaking your mind without fear of hurting other people. I'm not being snarky or passive aggressive; I just do not live in a world like that. My husband is super sensitive to offending others too, so I guess we don't have a balancing factor in our marriage. We tend to overcommit as a result, but we are getting better. He helped me say no to someone recently who wanted to stay with us just because we have company the following weekend and I *knew* it would be too much for me two weekends in a row. But it was HARD to say no. 

 

I have nice Aspie friends who are just as happy to state their limitations as I am.

Except one. We hurt each other's feelings all the time, but have mostly forgiven each other *before* we've done whatever it was, so it works anyway.

[SereneHome]

4 hours ago, Janie Grace said:

Thanks everyone. First of all, I admit I'm a wimp when it comes to letting people down, especially my sister. Part of it is personality (I'm an enneagram 2, if that helps anyone). Part of it is our history (very emotionally unstable household, I was her surrogate parent; she tells people "my sister raised me"). Part of it is her -- she has cut off two close female relatives already. Granted, those were far more extreme cases than their not being willing to host her for as long as she wants but still... I think that exerts power over me, even though I'm 99.9% sure she'd never cut me out of her life. These are not good excuses not to stick up for myself, I am just explaining a bit of the backstory.

I am definitely not proposing that I only let her stay 2 nights. If close family is coming from the opposite side of the country, I don't expect to only host them for a weekend. I'm just saying that going beyond that taxes me a lot. But I think part of this is because of HOW I host. I am basically available all waking hours, cooking/fixing all meals, providing all entertainment, being "up." For whatever reason (upbringing maybe), this is how I think of overnight hospitality... kind of like being a B&B operator and BFF at the same time. This thread has helped me see that I can and should change this. Breakfast can be mostly "on your own" (I will provide good options for them and probably cook once or twice but that's it). I will see the kitchen as for their use rather the place from which I serve them. And even though it feels really weird, I think it *is* okay (and good for me) to pick times (like when their kid is napping) to pop off to the library or coffee shop and work (or not work!) for the sake of my own sanity. I liked the idea of going to bed at 9:00 too.

I also plan to ask if they can spend the night in this other city when they visit the friends there. I don't know how to word that without sound inhospitable but maybe something like "now that __ is a year older, do you think she'd be okay to spend the night in ___ when you go? That would be a bit easier on us in terms of the evening and morning craziness..." Or something. I really don't know how to say it.

I'm honestly in awe that so many of you have no qualms about simply speaking your mind without fear of hurting other people. I'm not being snarky or passive aggressive; I just do not live in a world like that. My husband is super sensitive to offending others too, so I guess we don't have a balancing factor in our marriage. We tend to overcommit as a result, but we are getting better. He helped me say no to someone recently who wanted to stay with us just because we have company the following weekend and I *knew* it would be too much for me two weekends in a row. But it was HARD to say no. 

 

Ummm....I couldn't even read beyond that....she is holding you in an emotional hostage situation.  Or you are doing it to yourself.  Either way, this is not healthy for you!