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Relatives and long(er) visits... please help me figure out what to do/say


Janie Grace
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My sister and her husband have come visit every fall for the past few years. They come from the opposite coast so it's about 6 hours of traveling for them. I love them and am grateful that they come. But. Overnight guests are super taxing for me. After two nights, I am spent. Three nights feels like too many (though I suck it up for my parents and others). I think this is because I'm ultra-tuned into everyone else's feelings/preferences. I can't just relax and let people be "like family" -- I am always on high alert to make sure people are comfortable, well-cared for, etc. I have tried to turn this off and I can't. Plus I'm an introvert, so yeah... three nights feels like my max. 

My sister and her husband have proposed staying for seven. SEVEN. I love them but OY. They have a toddler who is very high maintenance (probably SPD, melts down a lot, etc). They are very "first time parents-ish" about the child (everything has to be just so, they give the kid way too many choices, they are always evaluating what is wrong/should be done, etc). They all have a lot of dietary restrictions that mean I have to cook very differently than I usually do. My sister helps a lot (dishes, etc) and as people they are laid back (they don't come with big demands to be shown around or entertained) but they drain me just like most guests do. Plus they have convictions about a lot of things (like paper napkins and Amazon and gendered pronouns and Thanksgiving, to name a few) so I always feel like I'm being hyper careful not to offend.

They will probably take day trips to a neighboring city (an hour away) a couple of times to see friends, but they will come back here to eat dinner and spend the night. I remember last time that I wished they'd just stay in the city and give us a little breathing room (since we were just a crash pad for those days) but they didn't want to have to reacclimatize their kid to another setting. 

My sister said in her text proposing this "How does that sound? Too long?" and if I was being 100% honest, I'd say "yes, too long!" But there is no way I could say that without hurting her feelings. I am so glad she wants to spend her time and money coming to see me. I totally adore my niece. My relationship with all three of them is precious to me. But I work from home and manage a family of 6 and adding three people for a week is going to mean I am recovering for about as long. 

Is this my issue? Do I need to learn how to NOT be hyper aware and hyper sensitive? Or is it okay to say "that's a bit too long for us in this particular season... would 5 nights work"? Even that I cannot imagine saying... I'm terrified of hurting her feelings and making her feel unwelcome. UGH, what do I do???

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Find a super-cute! Airbnb nearby so that you won't see them on their day trip days which could work like a mini-break?

Do be gently truthful about how draining that would be, while suggesting an alternative that would bring them close, since your relationship with them is so important to you.

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Do you live near other family? Do you live where there are other things for her to do? Or is she just visiting you?

I ask because I've dealt with a similar issue with my sister. She is a 15 hour drive and I used to visit with my kids once a year. Her dh is an introvert to the max and couldn't handle us for long. Problem is, they thing where there is NOTHING else to do worth going there. And no other family lives there. So the only reason I went was to visit them. Sadly, I no longer visit because driving 15 hours to spend a few hour a day for a few days with them isn't worth it. And we don't even stay at their house because my parents own a house a few houses down from them so stay there. Her dh made me feel unwelcomed in their home when he was home so I just can't visit at all.

Now if your sister has other things to do or people to do I could see suggesting she stay with someone else for a few days but still visit you each day maybe. But if not, I personally would suck it up and just try to manage. Or you really risk her deciding spending that time and money isn't worth it so often when she doesn't feel totally welcome to begin with.

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I totally get this. I work somewhat weird hours to boot and always feel nothing is in order at my house. I hope to change this soon with having someone come in to do some cleaning but I know it's hard to say something and not leave a strange taste in someone's mouth.

Are your sister and BIL totally okay with being told it's a tad long or do you think they would resent it even if not saying anything? Can you roll them off to other relatives nearby..."John and Mary would love for you to spend a couple night at their house"...I know it sounds desperate as well. 

Any sport events, other school schedules that you could legitimately use to shorten the visit or encourage them to stay elsewhere for a few days?

I really do think that one should follow the rule of "Guests are like fish...3 days max."  ?

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I would not worry about the paper napkins, Amazon, pronouns (unless it concerns a person visiting), holidays, etc.   If they are that convicted they can stay somewhere else.

Can you plan to be gone one evening....even if the plan is just take take a book to a local park and hideout for a bit?

 

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As an introvert who has struggled with this issue my entire life.....yes it is your issue.  Does your sister know you at all? I am thinking maybe yes since she asked ' too long'.  I would use that as an opening to say, ' ha ha, well you know me well' and then lay out  some ground rules. Like you can't be responsible for special diets. 

Usually if I have the beginning and end date I can find a way to deal.  If I can escape to my room by 9 and be unavailable until 9 the next morning.....I can deal.  

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1) She probably won't be offended if you suggest 4 or 5 nights instead of 7.  Tell her you have something important going on around that time.

2) Don't cook.  Go out to dinner and take them shopping for breakfast and lunch fixings.  Tell them you are doing this for their benefit as you know they have complex food requirements and you don't want to make a mistake.

3) Whatever time period they end up coming, plan ahead for it to disrupt you for 2x that number of days.  Then don't feel bad about it.  Even plan for yourself to have a mini stay-cation and enjoy it instead of feeling guilty.

4) I give you permission to use gendered pronouns just as you would any other time.  THAT is their issue.

Edited by SKL
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It’s ok to be honest that seven days is overwhelming to you. Like others have mentioned, having her cook their special diets or at least being responsible for a couple of family dinners will help your workload. And I LOVE the idea of being unavailable from 9-9. Guests visiting us know we go to be at ten sharp. They are welcome to stay up but they have always gone to their rooms when 10 rolls around. Dh and I go to bed and talk or read or whatever we need to unwind and it makes having guests much easier. 

As an introvert I MUST know what to expect when people visit. I want to know what days they’ll be out visiting, what we’re having for dinner (am I cooking or are we going out), etc.  It helps me to manage expectations, and I think guests appreciate it too. 

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1 hour ago, Janie Grace said:

I am so glad she wants to spend her time and money coming to see me. I totally adore my niece. My relationship with all three of them is precious to me. But I work from home and manage a family of 6 and adding three people for a week is going to mean I am recovering for about as long. 

Is this my issue? Do I need to learn how to NOT be hyper aware and hyper sensitive? Or is it okay to say "that's a bit too long for us in this particular season... would 5 nights work"? Even that I cannot imagine saying... I'm terrified of hurting her feelings and making her feel unwelcome. UGH, what do I do???

It sounds like she is visiting you, and then using your place as a free room to visit other people.  If you want to have her stay, map out ahead of time the days you are available for her, and then block off other days where she is on her own, even if she's in your home. She does all the meal prep for her family, and you may or may not be joining in. This gives them flexibility to stay longer with their other friends and not feel like you are sitting around waiting for them to get back. They know you are doing other things, and that gives you all freedom to do your own things.

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Say this:

"Sis, I love your visits and I want you to feel welcome, so it has taken me all day to figure out how to word this, but...yes, I'm afraid seven days would be too long. Our usual three day visit is just about right, for me to still be able to attend to my job and local responsibilities during the balance of the week. Thank you for asking! If you want me to help find a good Airbnb or a hotel, just let me know - or if you'd rather "base" your longer visit somewhere else and just come see us during part of it, we will understand. Or like I said, we LOVE your annual visit and would be very happy to keep our tradition exactly the same. Ds is looking forward to playing with dniece, I thought I'd fix your favorite dish, blah blah blah."

If your sister gets offended by this, she has moved into Kid Gloves Narcissist category and you do not need to feel one bit guilty for upsetting her. That's as gracious as it gets - "we love you and look forward to our three day visit but our schedules won't allow us to extend it," combined with "we understand if you want to change it on YOUR end, just as long as we get to see you" - a normal, nice and thoughtful person would not be offended by that.

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Are all visits between you and your sister done at your home, or do you go to theirs in Spring? And if you go to theirs, for how long? and do they follow your dietary requirements and pronoun preferences when you are at their house?

 

 I think you can tell them that 2 nights is as much as you can handle.  

 

Or you could work on being more forceful about your own needs. Use Amazon as you do normally. Use pronouns as you do normally. Tell your sister that it is a hard time for you and if they come you will need her to do all the cooking and include your family in the meals (assuming your family can eat whatever it is your sister’s family eats).  And that bedtime is _____ pm etc 

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Agreeing with Pen that I would manage my own pronouns in my own house, and if we are a paper napkin establishment, so be it. 

(I'm not clear on the pronouns thing. If they mean that you are calling their kid by the wrong pronoun because you are making a political statement about the kid's gender identity, you should stop doing that.)

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I am not a shy person.  I am actually a very VERY blunt person, but I can not imagine saying to anyone who wants to come and visit "that's too long".  *I* would consider that rude.  Jokingly or not. 

I WOULD however, be very comfortable saying "you are welcome here, but just to give you heads up, with my work, homeschooling, cooking for my kids, and picking my nose, I won't be able to accommodate your meals for the entire time.  Let me know if you need me to pre-buy you anything or if you would like to go shopping when you get here.  Also, you know it's not you it's me thing but  I might need some alone time to recharge."

I don't have siblings, but if any close family members or friends wanted to use my place as a "crash pad" and weren't obnoxious and rude about it, I don't see that as a problem. 

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We once needed a place to stay and asked family.  They said yes.  I double and triple checked that the length of stay was okay.  I was told yes.

It quickly became clear it was *not* okay.  We said something and were told "We had to say yes because you're family."

This hurt very badly.  Please don't say yes because you feel you must.  The chance that your apprehension about the long visit will "show" is too big a chance to take.

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6 minutes ago, happi duck said:

We once needed a place to stay and asked family.  They said yes.  I double and triple checked that the length of stay was okay.  I was told yes.

It quickly became clear it was *not* okay.  We said something and were told "We had to say yes because you're family."

This hurt very badly.  Please don't say yes because you feel you must.  The chance that your apprehension about the long visit will "show" is too big a chance to take.

 

This is actually great advise as someone who has been the sibling who has been hurt multiple times by feeling unwelcomed in another siblings homes, mainly due to lack of communication.

If you think you can handle them as guests for 7 with certain expectations, like they handle their own foods, you don't play hostess the whole time, etc. Then be clear with your sister about that. If you feel even with clear parameters that 7 is too much just be honest. But also be aware that their willingness to visit may change because to travel that far for only a few days may not be worth it.

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I agree with the others that you probably need some boundaries (e.g. sister takes care of her own family's meals, especially dinner when they are already out visiting other relatives).

My sister and I disagree on a great many things and we have learned to bite our tongues a lot.  She nearly died a few years ago and that helped me to put things into perspective.  Seven days a year is really a small amount of time.  Set up the help that you need, bite your tongue if you need to, and enjoy your visit.  :)

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She ASKED. She deserves an honest answer. Tell her you’re looking forward to seeing them, but you hit company saturation after 4 nights. Would you really spend 3 days stressed out rather than tell the truth and be uncomfortable for a few minutes? Maybe suggest she stay with you for a few nights at the beginning and end of her trip but book a place in the neighboring city for the few days she’s there. They’re on a plane from the coast, not DRIVING. They should be fine. She KNOWS 7 days is pushing it. 

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a few thoughts:

it's ok to say only five nights works for you.  (you can preface it by saying how much you love her, want her to visit, don't want to hurt her feelings, etc. - but you have a family of six, homeschool, and work from home.  you can't control her reaction - that is on her.)

having her stay in a hotel?  if she takes a day or two to go off and visit friends - encourage her to stay overnight visiting her out of town friends, or do a side trip for a couple nights somewhere cool near you.

Only cooking one thing for a meal  - if it works for them, great.   if it doesn't, she is in charge of coming up with something for her family (I understand the not liking anyone else using your kitchen - or being constantly asked where things are/go).  you're not a short-order cook.

 

CONSIDERATE guests - do treat their host to at least a dinner, so the host doesn't have to increase how many people for whom they are cooking by 50% - for a week.  that's a lot of work.  (and the cleaning up . . . . .)

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5 hours ago, Ottakee said:

I would not worry about the paper napkins, Amazon, pronouns (unless it concerns a person visiting), holidays, etc.   If they are that convicted they can stay somewhere else.

Can you plan to be gone one evening....even if the plan is just take take a book to a local park and hideout for a bit?

 

This.  I missed it the first time. 

3 hours ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

If your sister gets offended by this, she has moved into Kid Gloves Narcissist category and you do not need to feel one bit guilty for upsetting her. That's as gracious as it gets - "we love you and look forward to our three day visit but our schedules won't allow us to extend it," combined with "we understand if you want to change it on YOUR end, just as long as we get to see you" - a normal, nice and thoughtful person would not be offended by that.

amazon, paper napkins, pronouns, Thanksgivng . . . and OP is afraid to use/talk about any of those things in front of her sister (IN HER OWN HOME!!!!!)  for fear of offending her, the sister is already in "kid gloves narcissist" territory.

 

2 hours ago, SereneHome said:

I am not a shy person.  I am actually a very VERY blunt person, but I can not imagine saying to anyone who wants to come and visit "that's too long".  *I* would consider that rude.  Jokingly or not. 

I

and I can't imagine TELLING someone whose home I would like to visit, how long they must host me (while expecting them to provide meals/entertainment/etc.) - no matter their feelings on the issue.  I would consider that exceedingly gauche.

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Please be honest. Some of us rely on other people to be honest because WE are honest. When I tell someone they can visit me, I mean it. If I don’t want them for more than 3 days, I say so. But, in return, I expect honesty out of other people (though I would have asked “how long can we stay,” not “is 7 days too long.”). I have definitely gotten myself into uncomfortable situations because I take people at their word. It’s frustrating. This summer, for example, I was visiting a certain town, and asked someone for a hotel recommendation. They insisted my kids and I stay with them. I declined twice. They insisted. I gave in. We lasted one night before THEY (who asked us, unsolicited, to stay) asked us to leave. Thankfully, I had already decided I’d made a mistake and was packing up. ?. Be honest. Nobody wants to impose. Really. 

* exception: my in-laws always stay too long. ? It’s my DH’s home too, and he’s happy to have them longer than I am. That’s a bit different, to me. 

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I hear you.

 Dh's family live in Canada, we live in Australia. they come and visit and stay for a month. yep a month. it can be challenging for me.

 at the moment my SIL is here. she will be here for a total of 2 1/2 weeks. I think she is finding it challenging being here more challenging than I find her being here. We are very different than her her 2 children are grown and have left home many years ago. She is use to doing her own thing ( single). We don't dress our dog in clothes, do our dog's hair everyday to match our own ( this one is an exaggeration but you get the idea), let the dog in the house etc. I find it very hard to look at 2 hours of photos and videos on her dog and it's clothes every evening and show enthusiasm , very hard. On the upside she has decided to tile the kitchen - I have been hoping for 15 years to get it done. ? She has also taught me how to re-upholster the outside chairs YaY!

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4 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

amazon, paper napkins, pronouns, Thanksgivng . . . and OP is afraid to use/talk about any of those things in front of her sister (IN HER OWN HOME!!!!!)  for fear of offending her, the sister is already in "kid gloves narcissist" territory.

 

 

I don’t know if the visitor sister is a narcissist or if op is a person with severe trouble sticking up for herself.

But, either way, I think it is inappropriate for the visitor sister’s ideas about Amazon etc to govern what op feels she can do in her own home. . Even if it is only a two day visit.  

I think trying to be different than her usual self and walking on egg shells is part of what would make such a visit draining.  I have a significant other of a relative with pronoun issues — and I find just trying to not use gendered pronouns when they are present for a few hours is extra draining. 

 

If the sisters have a genuine good relationship and the visitor is not a narcissist, they should be able to talk about this, and by and large op should be able to do what she wants *in her own home* and visitors should adjust. 

 

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My gut is telling me that there's a LOT of extra sensitivity going on.  Not that 7 days isn't too long - I think it is for most people!

OP has an opinionated, kind of rigid/regimented sister.  So does my sister. ?  To hear some people bring that into heartless narcissist territory is a giant ouch!  I have an opinionated, half-rigid, half-flighty (figure that one out) sister.  We butt heads a little bit.  In a week, we'd butt heads a lot.  However, neither of us ever expects the other to entirely accommodate our... "stuff".  If the OP's sister is expecting a lot of accommodation (and she may not be, judging only by her recognizing the long length of the proposed visit), it may only be because of how things have been before.  

The idea of an airbnb is great. That's what my sister and parents did earlier this year and it was wonderful.  But a heart-to-heart would probably accomplish a whole lot more. Things like working together on a menu.  Our extended family vacations always had a spreadsheet going around to work up a meal plan.  Two years ago, we had 18 people from 5 family units, 5 different ways of eating, and various individual needs and preferences.  Planned in advance, there was always something for everyone, and all of the work got shared.

Asking for her schedule in advance would be another good idea.  "If you could let me know your plans for the week, I can schedule school/errands/a Netflix binge/whatever for while you're gone."

None of these things are offensive.  If the sister does get hurt feelings from them, then she REALLY shouldn't be spending a week with family.  But I don't think that would be the case.

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6 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

This.  I missed it the first time. 

amazon, paper napkins, pronouns, Thanksgivng . . . and OP is afraid to use/talk about any of those things in front of her sister (IN HER OWN HOME!!!!!)  for fear of offending her, the sister is already in "kid gloves narcissist" territory.

 

and I can't imagine TELLING someone whose home I would like to visit, how long they must host me (while expecting them to provide meals/entertainment/etc.) - no matter their feelings on the issue.  I would consider that exceedingly gauche.

 

I COMPLETELY agree.  But unless it's my child, it's not my job to teach them manners and I try (not always succeeding) not to base my actions on actions of others.

But also like I said - I don't have siblings, so may be that's normal for siblings to do?  I don't know....

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You have just as much right to strong (or not so strong) convictions as they do. Shrug it off and don't sweat it. Unless their normal circles serve as their echo chamber, they're used to push-back about their pet issues. It'll be okay.

When I have guests whose dietary restrictions go beyond "cook a variety of simple foods and choose what you like" territory, I take them to the grocery store and let them handle it. If their convictions or health issues are that serious, it's good for both parties. I say this as someone whose in-laws get persnickety about diets and change the rules literally every few weeks, and celiac disease runs through my side of the family. I don't want my celiac cousins to have a serious reaction because I goofed and contaminated their food (I do know how to cook GF and have a good idea of what to watch out for on labels, but I cannot guarantee there's no contamination in my kitchen, especially with my messy little helpers). And I don't want my in-laws to get angry and controlling because I couldn't remember this week's diet. Because, hoo boy, they will.

It seems to me that "Is that too long" is acknowledgement that maybe it is too long, and an invitation for you to say so. 

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Thanks everyone! I think that one big takeaway here is that I need to be less concerned about offending her while she's in my home. I hope I can do that... it really IS exhausting worrying about that. They are just the kind of people who have strong feelings about a lot of things, but I need to just be myself even if (even THOUGH) there are parts of me that offend their sensitivities. And no, the pronoun thing isn't about their child; I would totally honor that of course (they use "she/her" even though they dress the child in a non-gendered way because the child has not officially indicated her gender yet). It's just a general thing. Like they always refer to someone a "person" because gender should not be an important identifier (like they would not say "this woman at work told me..." they would say "this person at work..."). And they often use "they" instead of a gendered pronoun when talking about someone for the same reason (as a statement about the unimportance of gender). There are a hundred other touchy topics I haven't even mentioned (like police and Jewish people and religion) that are sensitive for them. Their culture is just so different from the rest of the US in some ways and I feel like coming to our house is probably culture shock. We are NOT far right conservatives. We are just a lot more... typically American or something. We eat at Chic-Fil-A sometimes. We use he/she. We think there are good police officers in addition to bad ones. We celebrate Thanksgiving.

I texted her back and indicated the shorter of two ranges she threw out (she said "8th or 9th to 15th" and I said "9-15 sounds great"). I did tell her the kids would have school and dh and I would have work but that I would try to work ahead as much as I could and that I'm so excited. I also let her know of an evening commitment we have during the visit and said dinner would just be pizza that night. I hope that including so many "negatives" (shorter of the two options, there will be school/work, we have a commitment) doesn't sound unwelcoming. Now I wish I had just told her that the shorter window is better (6 nights) and then discussed the other things on the phone.

I think one thing that is still bothering me (I just remembered this) is that the last time she visited, she went to see these people in another city for part of the weekend. That bothers me because that is when all of us are home and could actually hang out with them. I think maybe this time I should see she can change that and have her visits to others occur at times we AREN'T available so we aren't sacrificing time with them just to be a crash pad.

ETA: The reference to Jewish people means that sometimes she says things that TO ME border on anti-Semitic because she is so pro-Palestine. I totally understand that position on Israel but for her it extends to what she sees as Jewish privilege or something in the US and it makes me really uneasy. It's a weird position for someone who is so liberal but I think it represents the extreme of anti-Zionism.

 

Edited by Janie Grace
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8 minutes ago, lavender's green said:

You have just as much right to strong (or not so strong) convictions as they do. Shrug it off and don't sweat it. Unless their normal circles serve as their echo chamber, they're used to push-back about their pet issues. It'll be okay.

 

I'm pretty sure they do live in an echo chamber by choice. I feel like we are their big step outside it.

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1 hour ago, SereneHome said:

 

I COMPLETELY agree.  But unless it's my child, it's not my job to teach them manners and I try (not always succeeding) not to base my actions on actions of others.

But also like I said - I don't have siblings, so may be that's normal for siblings to do?  I don't know....

saying "that doens't work for me, how about ____" is not "teaching manners".  It is stating what you are able to do.  it is standing up for yourself, your family, your schedule, your resources, etc. - and being realistic.

1 hour ago, Selkie said:

I'd tell her that since she and her family want to stay for a whole week,  you're going to order a big pack of paper plates from Amazon to lessen your work load.?

and order in catering from chick-fil-a or In-n-out.   ?

my sil almost always feeds guests off foam plates, plastic utensils, and cups from costco.   

1 hour ago, Janie Grace said:

Thanks everyone! I think that one big takeaway here is that I need to be less concerned about offending her while she's in my home. I hope I can do that... it really IS exhausting worrying about that. They are just the kind of people who have strong feelings about a lot of things, but I need to just be myself even if (even THOUGH) there are parts of me that offend their sensitivities. And no, the pronoun thing isn't about their child; I would totally honor that of course (they use "she/her" even though they dress the child in a non-gendered way because the child has not officially indicated her gender yet). It's just a general thing. Like they always refer to someone a "person" because gender should not be an important identifier (like they would not say "this woman at work told me..." they would say "this person at work..."). And they often use "they" instead of a gendered pronoun when talking about someone for the same reason (as a statement about the unimportance of gender). by going out of their way to NOT use a pronoun, indicates they do think it has power . . . . There are a hundred other touchy topics I haven't even mentioned (like police and Jewish people and religion) that are sensitive for them. Their culture is just so different from the rest of the US in some ways and I feel like coming to our house is probably culture shock. We are NOT far right conservatives. We are just a lot more... typically American or something. We eat at Chic-Fil-A sometimes. We use he/she. We think there are good police officers in addition to bad ones. We celebrate Thanksgiving.

I think one thing that is still bothering me (I just remembered this) is that the last time she visited, she went to see these people in another city for part of the weekend. That bothers me because that is when all of us are home and could actually hang out with them. I think maybe this time I should see she can change that and have her visits to others occur at times we AREN'T available so we aren't sacrificing time with them just to be a crash pad.

ETA: The reference to Jewish people means that sometimes she says things that TO ME border on anti-Semitic because she is so pro-Palestine. I totally understand that position on Israel but for her it extends to what she sees as Jewish privilege or something in the US and it makes me really uneasy. It's a weird position for someone who is so liberal (no, it's not.  I'm in a very liberal area.  it's typical.) but I think it represents the extreme of anti-Zionism.

 

 

you're a better person than me.  dh has a nephew who is quite liberal - and more than happy to shove his beliefs into everyone else's face so he can argue about them (and why he is right) . . . . I really think that's one reason his wife divorced him.   (and on my side, is my brother . .  who likes alex jones.  but he was uber obnoxious and toxic before he got into wacky conspiracy theories.)

 

about the visiting other people when you're free . . . tell them ahead of time when you will be available to spend time with them.   don't assume they will be there when you're free, be proactive.   if they choose those times to go visit their friends .. . they are indicating to you how much they're there to visit you, and how much they're there to have a free lodging while they visit their friends.

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7 hours ago, BooksandBoys said:

Please be honest. Some of us rely on other people to be honest because WE are honest. When I tell someone they can visit me, I mean it. If I don’t want them for more than 3 days, I say so. But, in return, I expect honesty out of other people (though I would have asked “how long can we stay,” not “is 7 days too long.”). I have definitely gotten myself into uncomfortable situations because I take people at their word. It’s frustrating. This summer, for example, I was visiting a certain town, and asked someone for a hotel recommendation. They insisted my kids and I stay with them. I declined twice. They insisted. I gave in. We lasted one night before THEY (who asked us, unsolicited, to stay) asked us to leave. Thankfully, I had already decided I’d made a mistake and was packing up. ?. Be honest. Nobody wants to impose. Really. 

* exception: my in-laws always stay too long. ? It’s my DH’s home too, and he’s happy to have them longer than I am. That’s a bit different, to me. 

? That’s awful!

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Please be honest. I have no way of knowing if I am imposing on someone and making them uncomfortable if they hide the fact and lie to me about it.

"You know, I do tend to feel pretty drained after about three days with guests in the house. I love you guys to bits and really do want you to visit, but if I am honest a week of hostessing will leave me feeling worn out. I really really enjoy shorter visits from you.

Is there anywhere else in the area you might also like to spend a couple of days when you come?"

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3 hours ago, SereneHome said:

 

I COMPLETELY agree.  But unless it's my child, it's not my job to teach them manners and I try (not always succeeding) not to base my actions on actions of others.

True, but that goes both ways. The OP shouldn't have to give up paper napkins and gender pronouns and Amazon when her sister visits. The guest should suck it up as much as possible, the hostess should make any accommodations that she is capable of doing (e.g., she shouldn't have to invest in cloth napkins just for the sister, but she could avoid ordering from Amazon, no one should get worked up about gender pronouns. Please.).

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8 minutes ago, Ellie said:

True, but that goes both ways. The OP shouldn't have to give up paper napkins and gender pronouns and Amazon when her sister visits. The guest should suck it up as much as possible, the hostess should make any accommodations that she is capable of doing (e.g., she shouldn't have to invest in cloth napkins just for the sister, but she could avoid ordering from Amazon, no one should get worked up about gender pronouns. Please.).

why should she avoid ordering from amazon just because her sister is there?

 

eta: if she needs to order things - order them.  that isn't' the same as ordering things to deliberately antagonize her sister.

Edited by gardenmom5
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25 minutes ago, Ellie said:

True, but that goes both ways. The OP shouldn't have to give up paper napkins and gender pronouns and Amazon when her sister visits. The guest should suck it up as much as possible, the hostess should make any accommodations that she is capable of doing (e.g., she shouldn't have to invest in cloth napkins just for the sister, but she could avoid ordering from Amazon, no one should get worked up about gender pronouns. Please.).

 

Oh absolutely. 

I was just addressing the length of the visit part.  The way I see it other parts would be happening whether it's a 3 day visit or 7 day visit.

 

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18 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

why should she avoid ordering from amazon just because her sister is there?

 

eta: if she needs to order things - order them.  that isn't' the same as ordering things to deliberately antagonize her sister.

Agreed. Guests don't tell hosts where to shop, what to say, or how to set their table. If they don't like the hospitality, conversation, or family values, they know where the door is, they came thru it on their way in.

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3 hours ago, Janie Grace said:

Thanks everyone! I think that one big takeaway here is that I need to be less concerned about offending her while she's in my home. I hope I can do that... it really IS exhausting worrying about that. They are just the kind of people who have strong feelings about a lot of things, but I need to just be myself even if (even THOUGH) there are parts of me that offend their sensitivities. And no, the pronoun thing isn't about their child; I would totally honor that of course (they use "she/her" even though they dress the child in a non-gendered way because the child has not officially indicated her gender yet). It's just a general thing. Like they always refer to someone a "person" because gender should not be an important identifier (like they would not say "this woman at work told me..." they would say "this person at work..."). And they often use "they" instead of a gendered pronoun when talking about someone for the same reason (as a statement about the unimportance of gender). There are a hundred other touchy topics I haven't even mentioned (like police and Jewish people and religion) that are sensitive for them. Their culture is just so different from the rest of the US in some ways and I feel like coming to our house is probably culture shock. We are NOT far right conservatives. We are just a lot more... typically American or something. We eat at Chic-Fil-A sometimes. We use he/she. We think there are good police officers in addition to bad ones. We celebrate Thanksgiving.

I texted her back and indicated the shorter of two ranges she threw out (she said "8th or 9th to 15th" and I said "9-15 sounds great"). I did tell her the kids would have school and dh and I would have work but that I would try to work ahead as much as I could and that I'm so excited. I also let her know of an evening commitment we have during the visit and said dinner would just be pizza that night. I hope that including so many "negatives" (shorter of the two options, there will be school/work, we have a commitment) doesn't sound unwelcoming. Now I wish I had just told her that the shorter window is better (6 nights) and then discussed the other things on the phone.

I think one thing that is still bothering me (I just remembered this) is that the last time she visited, she went to see these people in another city for part of the weekend. That bothers me because that is when all of us are home and could actually hang out with them. I think maybe this time I should see she can change that and have her visits to others occur at times we AREN'T available so we aren't sacrificing time with them just to be a crash pad.

ETA: The reference to Jewish people means that sometimes she says things that TO ME border on anti-Semitic because she is so pro-Palestine. I totally understand that position on Israel but for her it extends to what she sees as Jewish privilege or something in the US and it makes me really uneasy. It's a weird position for someone who is so liberal but I think it represents the extreme of anti-Zionism.

 

Yikes. One day of that would be unpleasant and exhausting, let alone seven...

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9 hours ago, BooksandBoys said:

Please be honest. Some of us rely on other people to be honest because WE are honest. When I tell someone they can visit me, I mean it. If I don’t want them for more than 3 days, I say so. But, in return, I expect honesty out of other people (though I would have asked “how long can we stay,” not “is 7 days too long.”). I have definitely gotten myself into uncomfortable situations because I take people at their word. It’s frustrating. This summer, for example, I was visiting a certain town, and asked someone for a hotel recommendation. They insisted my kids and I stay with them. I declined twice. They insisted. I gave in. We lasted one night before THEY (who asked us, unsolicited, to stay) asked us to leave. Thankfully, I had already decided I’d made a mistake and was packing up. ?. Be honest. Nobody wants to impose. Really. 

* exception: my in-laws always stay too long. ? It’s my DH’s home too, and he’s happy to have them longer than I am. That’s a bit different, to me. 

 

I can GUARANTEE you they don't stay as long as my IL"s....:)

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10 hours ago, BooksandBoys said:

Please be honest. Some of us rely on other people to be honest because WE are honest. When I tell someone they can visit me, I mean it. If I don’t want them for more than 3 days, I say so. But, in return, I expect honesty out of other people (though I would have asked “how long can we stay,” not “is 7 days too long.”). I have definitely gotten myself into uncomfortable situations because I take people at their word. It’s frustrating. This summer, for example, I was visiting a certain town, and asked someone for a hotel recommendation. They insisted my kids and I stay with them. I declined twice. They insisted. I gave in. We lasted one night before THEY (who asked us, unsolicited, to stay) asked us to leave. Thankfully, I had already decided I’d made a mistake and was packing up. ?. Be honest. Nobody wants to impose. Really. 

* exception: my in-laws always stay too long. ? It’s my DH’s home too, and he’s happy to have them longer than I am. That’s a bit different, to me. 

otoh. . . it can be quite fun to "take them at their word".   my foo, played a lot of games where you had to guess what the person really meant - and begging was expected to show your "sincerity".  it is an EXTREMELY unhealthy way of relating.  there was a lot of manipulation and control freaking behavior behind it.  

at one family dinner (we were hosting) - dh was bbqing steak.  he asked everyone how they wanted it.  one person very piously stated how she "doesn't eat beef".  fine.  didn't bother dh he moved on to the next person.  dished up the steaks on individual plates, put them at their places as everyone came to the table to sit down.  person sits down in my place (in front of MY steak! - which was there when she sat down) - in the commotion the plate was moved to where I was sitting.   we're say a blessing on the food - so during the blessing, there was a LOUD exclamation of "where's my steak???".   after the blessing, dh apologized profusely for the misunderstanding as he thought she didn't want one.  he would go put it on the grill for her right now.  how would she like it cooked?  'no, I don't eat steak' . . . . . she sulked through the rest of the dinner.  a couple others who engage in this type of garbage - were glaring/sulking through the meal too.

I broke this type of manipulation and mind games in my own family.  my mother learned to give me straight answers.  

 

eta: I also think in some areas it is a "cultural" thing, where they're expected to be so hospitable and self-sacrificing.  whether they want to or are able to or not.

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A few things...

My brother has been my ride or die for longer than anyone in my life so I will deal with a lot from him and his family.

They stay a minimum of a week with us, usually longer.

It is a given for me to take at least 2 weeks to get back to "normal" after they leave. I'm always sad and tired, exhausted, when they leave. He is a big personality, the kind of person  that lights up a room and everyone wants to see when he is in town. It is non-stop gogogogogogo! More is More isn't his philosophy when he is here...It is like More is Not Enough.

I wouldn't trade it for the world, and I'd do anything to see him/them more and longer. I adjust our lives as much as possible to make it so the visit is wonderful for all of us so that is what is recommend to you. 

 

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5 hours ago, Janie Grace said:

Thanks everyone! I think that one big takeaway here is that I need to be less concerned about offending her while she's in my home. I hope I can do that... it really IS exhausting worrying about that. They are just the kind of people who have strong feelings about a lot of things, but I need to just be myself even if (even THOUGH) there are parts of me that offend their sensitivities. And no, the pronoun thing isn't about their child; I would totally honor that of course (they use "she/her" even though they dress the child in a non-gendered way because the child has not officially indicated her gender yet). It's just a general thing. Like they always refer to someone a "person" because gender should not be an important identifier (like they would not say "this woman at work told me..." they would say "this person at work..."). And they often use "they" instead of a gendered pronoun when talking about someone for the same reason (as a statement about the unimportance of gender). There are a hundred other touchy topics I haven't even mentioned (like police and Jewish people and religion) that are sensitive for them. Their culture is just so different from the rest of the US in some ways and I feel like coming to our house is probably culture shock. We are NOT far right conservatives. We are just a lot more... typically American or something. We eat at Chic-Fil-A sometimes. We use he/she. We think there are good police officers in addition to bad ones. We celebrate Thanksgiving.

I texted her back and indicated the shorter of two ranges she threw out (she said "8th or 9th to 15th" and I said "9-15 sounds great"). I did tell her the kids would have school and dh and I would have work but that I would try to work ahead as much as I could and that I'm so excited. I also let her know of an evening commitment we have during the visit and said dinner would just be pizza that night. I hope that including so many "negatives" (shorter of the two options, there will be school/work, we have a commitment) doesn't sound unwelcoming. Now I wish I had just told her that the shorter window is better (6 nights) and then discussed the other things on the phone.

I think one thing that is still bothering me (I just remembered this) is that the last time she visited, she went to see these people in another city for part of the weekend. That bothers me because that is when all of us are home and could actually hang out with them. I think maybe this time I should see she can change that and have her visits to others occur at times we AREN'T available so we aren't sacrificing time with them just to be a crash pad.

ETA: The reference to Jewish people means that sometimes she says things that TO ME border on anti-Semitic because she is so pro-Palestine. I totally understand that position on Israel but for her it extends to what she sees as Jewish privilege or something in the US and it makes me really uneasy. It's a weird position for someone who is so liberal but I think it represents the extreme of anti-Zionism.

 

 

Why are you treating your sister with kid gloves? You’re worried that she might get offended about “negatives” that are so minor that they probably weren’t even worth mentioning. You put up with all of her and her dh’s quirks (to put it politely,) but they have no problem being obnoxious and judgmental when they speak with you. You are concerned about being a great hostess, but they seem to be using your house as a place to eat and sleep for free while they do whatever they want and go wherever they please.

It seems like you allow your sister to walk all over you. I think you should consider standing up for yourself and change the plans to a shorter stay in your home, and when she and her dh are visiting and they start to tell you how to behave and what to say and how to say it in your own home, you might want to tell them to suck it up and deal with it. They seriously overstep their bounds... and you let them do it. 

 

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5 hours ago, Janie Grace said:

Thanks everyone! I think that one big takeaway here is that I need to be less concerned about offending her while she's in my home. I hope I can do that... it really IS exhausting worrying about that. They are just the kind of people who have strong feelings about a lot of things, but I need to just be myself even if (even THOUGH) there are parts of me that offend their sensitivities. And no, the pronoun thing isn't about their child; I would totally honor that of course (they use "she/her" even though they dress the child in a non-gendered way because the child has not officially indicated her gender yet). It's just a general thing. Like they always refer to someone a "person" because gender should not be an important identifier (like they would not say "this woman at work told me..." they would say "this person at work..."). And they often use "they" instead of a gendered pronoun when talking about someone for the same reason (as a statement about the unimportance of gender).

 

I don't think  they should have to use the pronouns you prefer, but I don’t think you should change your customary way of speaking over to theirs.  

It is possible that some years from now he and she will be as archaic as thou now is for most people, but we are not there yet.  “ He, she, it “ as singular pronouns and “they” as plural is still correct English at this time.  And your sister and bil may be early to the future usage to come or may just be on a current bandwagon. 

5 hours ago, Janie Grace said:

There are a hundred other touchy topics I haven't even mentioned (like police and Jewish people and religion) that are sensitive for them.

 

I’d call them out on these other touchy topics, or at least be as outspoken about you views as they are about theirs—not bite your own tongue. 

 

I presume they value “diversity “ and “free speech”. Let your own ideas shine. 

 

5 hours ago, Janie Grace said:

Their culture is just so different from the rest of the US in some ways and I feel like coming to our house is probably culture shock. We are NOT far right conservatives. We are just a lot more... typically American or something. We eat at Chic-Fil-A sometimes. We use he/she. We think there are good police officers in addition to bad ones. We celebrate Thanksgiving.

I texted her back and indicated the shorter of two ranges she threw out (she said "8th or 9th to 15th" and I said "9-15 sounds great").

 

Does it sound great? Or is that a lie?  Please be honest with your sister. 

I think if you are honest about both what length of time is great for you and about your own pronouns, feelings about police, etc. you will feel better. You will feel stronger. And I think it is actually kinder to be honest.  

5 hours ago, Janie Grace said:

I did tell her the kids would have school and dh and I would have work but that I would try to work ahead as much as I could and that I'm so excited. I also let her know of an evening commitment we have during the visit and said dinner would just be pizza that night. I hope that including so many "negatives" (shorter of the two options, there will be school/work, we have a commitment) doesn't sound unwelcoming. Now I wish I had just told her that the shorter window is better (6 nights) and then discussed the other things on the phone.

 

I think you are still way way way way too far on the side of hiding your own feelings and needs in an attempt to be polite and welcoming. 

2 days when your family is actually able to enjoy company sounds like whaat would truly be “great” and work well for you. 

I suggest you call back and say you are excited, yes, but the time frame is too long.  Before they have booked tickets  

Btw, did you get any say in when a visit would be convenient for you in general? Like perhaps a time during the summer? Or do they just tell you when they will be coming based on their convenience or maybe the convenience of the other people in your area who the plan to visit at same time?

5 hours ago, Janie Grace said:

I think one thing that is still bothering me (I just remembered this) is that the last time she visited, she went to see these people in another city for part of the weekend. That bothers me because that is when all of us are home and could actually hang out with them. I think maybe this time I should see she can change that and have her visits to others occur at times we AREN'T available so we aren't sacrificing time with them just to be a crash pad.

 

I think you should call back and say that you really love her and when you said it would be “great” to have her that is what you meant, but that as you have thought about it longer you realize that only the ____ and ____ (the days that will work for you and your family) are actually okay. That you would love to have them visit those two days, but that the rest of it is too stressful on top of work and homeschooling. 

 

5 hours ago, Janie Grace said:

ETA: The reference to Jewish people means that sometimes she says things that TO ME border on anti-Semitic because she is so pro-Palestine. I totally understand that position on Israel but for her it extends to what she sees as Jewish privilege or something in the US and it makes me really uneasy. It's a weird position for someone who is so liberal but I think it represents the extreme of anti-Zionism.

 

I agree with you. I don’t know your sister, but I have been hearing increasing anti-Jewish sentiment as regards American Jews, as well as anti-Israel,  anti-Zionism.  As with the people who object to he and she pronouns,  I also have this in my own family.  I think it is frightening.  

I think you should be open in your conversations with her and call her out if she is displaying anti-Jewish prejudice .   It won’t be likely to change her, but it again is likely to help you to feel better about yourself. 

And the parts about police and Jews are important topics. Burying that will probably add even more to feeling drained by them. 

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Again, I don’t know them, but from what you describe, Your sister and bil Sound Like bigots.  Liberal ones, but in the sense of being intolerant of any views other than their own    Maybe if you keep that in mind it will be easier to speak up to them  

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, Janie Grace said:

My sister said in her text proposing this "How does that sound? Too long?" and if I was being 100% honest, I'd say "yes, too long!" But there is no way I could say that without hurting her feelings.

I don't believe it's the job of other people to make sure someone's feelings aren't hurt.  People are not made of fragile glass. We're talking about your adult sister, right? And she did just ask you if it was too long, so I'm guessing she's somewhat in tune with your feelings.  She asked.  Answer honestly. I'm not clear on if you want to or not.  When you say 2 nights and I'm spent, does that mean you want her to come for 2 nights max and spend yourself, or do you mean that because you don't want to at all 2 nights is your mental/emotional breaking point? If you do want her to, but know it will cost you dearly emotionally, then say something like,   "I'm glad to have you stay two nights with us.  Which ones should I plan for?" If you don't want to just tell her, "Sorry, I'm stretched too thin these days for hosting, but I'd love to meet you for coffee/lunch and catch up.  Just let me know when and where."

I don't know your sister so I have to consider different possibilities. If she asked about it being too long insincerely because she knows it's asking too much but knows you won't say so, don't fall for it.  She needs to feel the discomfort of being disingenuous. Intentionally misunderstand the subtext and respond to her as though you think she's asking an honest, straightforward question.   If she was being honest (I'm going to assume she was because no one likes it when people assume they were lying or manipulating) then she'll be glad to hear your honest response.  If not, it's on her, not you. Adults should expect to pay for all of their own travel costs, including housing. And no, it's absolutely not your job to send her links to local hotels, air BNBs, etc.  Grown ups find their own accommodations when they travel.  If they're not willing to do that, then they shouldn't travel.  Offering to do it for her is infantalizing her.

Since we're being honest, I think you should seek out some counseling because, based on your original post, I think you could use help with boundaries and not feeling responsible for other adults.

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I think the miss manners version is, “Oh I do so wish I could spend 6 whole days with you and Alfred and darling little Sammy, but unfortunately we just can’t.”  This can cover other obligations, need for family time, not feeling up to providing cloth napkins, personal emotional distress...

 

From the outside btw it sounds like your sister was manipulating you with her either the 8th To 15th or 9th to 15th choice.

It made it very hard to respond with your own truth that both those options were several nights longer than your maximum  

It is like parents offering a toddler the choice between kale or spinach, or bed right now with a longer story or in 15 minutes with a very short bedtime story. 

You are the host if you choose to be.  You do not need to host at all. If you do you can make the this or that choice as 2 (or 3) options that are  *excellent for You. *  Choices that would be ones you really honestly feel great about, not that are to feel like you are doing things that are not actually great but saying they are to be  polite  

For example: 

“Sis, some things have come up where I see I can only manage a 2 night visit.  we can host you the weekend of the 14th and 15th, including the nights of the 14th and 15th at our home. Or you can come the afternoon of the 13th and stay that night, and the night of the 14th.  Which of those would be best for you?”

 

Edited by Pen
Stressing to do what is “excellent for you “.
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