Penguin Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 (edited) I've been finding anecdotal evidence online that colleges typically do not allow graphing calculators to be used on calculus exams. But some of the threads/articles (*) are on the old side. What has been your experience (or your student's experience)? Are they an integral part of the AP Calc exam? If so, why the disconnect between an AP Calc and college calc? We just started Derek Owens Calculus, which does integrate some graphing calculator work, and I got to wondering. While the DO Calculus class is set up to prepare you for the AP Calc AB exam, my son won't be taking the AP exam. If, during the course of the year, we become pressed for time, would I do him a disservice to skate over (but not skip) the graphing calculator aspect of the course? We are doing the self-grading option so I can make some tweaks if necessary. DS is not speedy with math, and we usually have to go well into the summer to meet our goals. But he is a senior this year, and I DO NOT want that to happen. Nor do I want anything less that a solid calculus course for him this year. What I want to do is FOCUS on doing calculus in a way that would set him up to succeed in Calc I at college next year. He knows how to use a graphing calculator just fine - he owns one and has fiddled with it enough that he knows how to use it. I just need to strive for efficiency. That and the philosophical question of the college approach vs. the AP approach (if there is one) is a burning question in my mind this morning ? * I did not bother to bookmark the threads/articles, but if anyone is interested enough I will retrieve the links and post them here. Edited September 2, 2018 by Penguin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 They are necessary for the AP exam. FWIW, my kids have not been allowed to use a calculator in cal or introductory level physics at college. I don't think one professor let ds use a calculator in a 300 level physics course. (My dd who is a college sophomore has not been allowed to use anything other than a 4 function calculator on any class exam.) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 I was reading some comments (reddit? College Confidential? ratemyprofessor?) about Calc classes at one of the colleges my DD is thinking of attending. They are not allowed to use ANY calculator - even a scientific one - in their calc classes. I'm anti graphing-calculator from a regular-everyday-class-use perspective, but since my oldest is in outsourced science & math classes, I've had to let that go (for her). I'm hopeful she won't get too dependent on it as she knows how important it is to be able to rough graph things by hand from Alg 2 & Pre-Calc last year. I don't see an issue with only doing a little with the graphing calculator section since he isn't taking the AP exam and he's already comfortable with the calculator. I'd personally rather my kid be solid on the concepts and applications of the math vs. the ability to plug-and-chug into the calculator. YMMV. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 (edited) The AP exam is constructed so that certain questions absolutely require the graphing calculator. Neither of my kids' universities nor the one where I teach permit any calculator use in calculus exams. We do not permit calculator use in intro physics courses. DD graduated with a physics degree without ever using a graphing calculator in her life. DH and I are physics professors and never used one either. I don't think you do your student a disservice if you decide to skip the graphing calculator entirely. Edited September 3, 2018 by regentrude 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 (edited) Call me a cynic, but I believe that the AP exam is in-league with TI or Casio or whatever official brand of calculator is required for the exam, so they purposefully have some questions that require a calculator. Or they reserve the right to include a calculator-specific question on the exam. However we don't use a graphing calculator and we won't use a graphing calculator any time soon either. I require my kids to graph everything by hand, every time. We don't have any ambitions to take the AP exam any time soon, though. If they were going to take it soon, I'd probably reserve a week or two towards the end dedicated to learning to use the calculator to do the problems we've been doing by hand all year long. We couldn't use them in college for any in-class assignment, quiz or test and I graduated only a little while ago. College professors tend to not allow them so I think it's wasteful to spend $$$ on a calculator that you'll use 1-3 times in your entire scholastic life and will weaken you if you come to depende on it outside of those very specific cases. Anyway that's my $0.02 Edited September 3, 2018 by Gil 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alewife Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 (edited) My two college kids both used AP credit to place out of Calc I and Calc II, but they still were not permitted to use any type of calculator in their math and science classes their first year and beyond. There are many sections of the AP calc exam that also prohibit the use of a calculator. There are also some sections that do require the use of a calculator, but even those sections require the student to show the set-up of the problem and to justify the answer steps which require a conceptual understanding of the concepts. Many times the calculator is required to either integrate or differentiate a complicated function such as when finding the area between two curves of polar equations. Even if your student did not know how to use a graphing calculator, he could still receive many points on a FRQ by simply setting up the problem correctly. Fwiw, my kids all got 5's on the AP Calc BC exam and did the vast majority of their calculus problems throughout the year without using a calculator. It took them less than 15 minutes to learn how to use their graphing calculators to solve the problems on the AP exam that did require a calculator to solve. Edited September 4, 2018 by alewife 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 (edited) DD’s college Statistics teaches how to use a TI-84 for some tests/graphs, but the professor told them not to buy one. Bring one if you have one from high school, borrow from your little brother for the two days you need one for a in-class exam, use a cell phone version at home, and he has about a dozen he’s collected that you can borrow in class. DD has somehow managed to accumulate 3 graphing calculators (mostly prizes from various contests), so she’ll be donating a few to his stash. Edited September 3, 2018 by Dmmetler2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbollin Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 On 9/2/2018 at 10:38 AM, Penguin said: I ?Are they an integral part of the AP Calc exam? that was too cute to not giggle out loud. no clue on ap exam but.... college experiences to share. My oldest graduated 3 months ago with engineering/comp sci/math triple major. She told me at the time (4 years ago in freshman year) that in Calc that some parts of in class tests required/allowed graphing calculator while other sections required they be put away. I stopped asking those kind of questions after first semester and don't know how it was or wasn't used in physics, etc. I know we bought used thing on amazon and it was ok. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted September 3, 2018 Author Share Posted September 3, 2018 Wow, I appreciate all of your replies. Based on them, I think my intuition had me headed in the right direction. I got my engineering degree in 1985, long before graphing calculators were in common use. But I didn’t want my lack of experience with (and cynical attitude toward) graphing calculators to put my son at a disadvantage. I am quite happy to read that the college math classes have not become graphing calculator dependent. I spent yesterday sorting through the DO curriculum and now I know that there are two versions of the chapter tests and semester exams - one for those planning to take the AP exam and one for those not interested in the AP exam. Cool. Oh, and for anyone wanting to fiddle with a graphing calculator without buying one, I have used Destos. https://www.desmos.com/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbollin Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 This probably isn't relevant, but if it helps someone my dd reminded me of this. She was able to the TI36X (pro engineering/scientific calculator) on her FE (fundamentals of engineering) exam. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daijobu Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) Graphing calculators weren't invented when I took AP Calc BC, so we had to graph things by hand. These days, if you want to graph something, you can use desmos, or just enter it into google. Check out this hyperbolic paraboloid (z=x^2 - y^2). (I can still draw a hyperbolic paraboloid by hand. It was practically required for high school graduation.) Edited September 4, 2018 by daijobu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokotg Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 huh--interesting. My son took physics and is now taking linear algebra DE at a local university, and he's been allowed to use his graphing calculator on tests in both (actually, the first linear algebra test is today, but it's his understanding that calculators are allowed) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, kokotg said: huh--interesting. My son took physics and is now taking linear algebra DE at a local university, and he's been allowed to use his graphing calculator on tests in both (actually, the first linear algebra test is today, but it's his understanding that calculators are allowed) They must have extremely honest students and no problems with cheating, or perhaps the profs don't care. Dishonesty is the major reason we structure all exams to be completed without any sort of calculator, because once you allow hand held electronics, you have no control. Edited September 4, 2018 by regentrude 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 On 9/3/2018 at 1:38 PM, Penguin said: Wow, I appreciate all of your replies. Based on them, I think my intuition had me headed in the right direction. I got my engineering degree in 1985, long before graphing calculators were in common use. But I didn’t want my lack of experience with (and cynical attitude toward) graphing calculators to put my son at a disadvantage. I am quite happy to read that the college math classes have not become graphing calculator dependent. I spent yesterday sorting through the DO curriculum and now I know that there are two versions of the chapter tests and semester exams - one for those planning to take the AP exam and one for those not interested in the AP exam. Cool. Oh, and for anyone wanting to fiddle with a graphing calculator without buying one, I have used Destos. https://www.desmos.com/ I took the AP Calculus BC exam in 1990 and there was no required calculator then either. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokotg Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 3 hours ago, regentrude said: They must have extremely honest students and no problems with cheating, or perhaps the profs don't care. Dishonesty is the major reason we structure all exams to be completed without any sort of calculator, because once you allow hand held electronics, you have no control. well, I doubt it's the first thing ? . Seriously, I don't know...there is an honor code, and they have to show their work, and he says the prof said he doesn't care what kind of calculator they use as long as they don't use it for notes and that he emphasized that they'd fail the class if caught cheating....but practically speaking, I don't see how he would catch anyone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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