What should we use for chemistry?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Oak Meadow costs $500 for books plus kit.  I would be teaching it.  As far as I can tell, you can't just enroll with one of their teachers for just one course.

Derek Owens doesn't do chemistry.

Dd hates Apologia.

What other options do I have? 

[Alicia64]

I might be completely wrong, but does Jetta Seboly teach online chemistry?

My boys are taking her online physics and LOVE her which is huge because one of my son's is super picky about teachers.

I hope she teaches online chemistry.

Alley

[Arcadia]

40 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

What other options do I have? 

If you want to DIY, my DS12 used Holt Chemistry textbook for his summer brick and mortar class which was a high school for credit class and liked it.

Dicentra still has vacancies in her regular chemistry class but her honors chemistry class is full.

30 minutes ago, Alicia64 said:

I might be completely wrong, but does Jetta Seboly teach online chemistry?

Dicentra http://www.clovervalleychemistry.com/

ETA:

for DIY labs, we have tried both Labpaq (HOLScience) and Qualify Science Labs. My kids have no preference for either but had fun doing the labs.

Edited August 31, 2018 by Arcadia

[Lori D.]

Yes! Connie (Dicentra of these boards) just started Clover Valley Chemistry classes online this year, for $550/year -- only $50 more than Oak Meadow, and her course includes weekly videos as well as a 1x/week live (or can be time-shifted) class component, on top of a schedule and grading.

We were not Apologia fans either. If Clover Valley Chemistry is not an option, we used Conceptual Chemistry (Suchocki) at home. He has a free website with short tutorial videos for every chapter, plus resources for teachers. Teacher resources includes suggested syllabi, exams, solutions to textbook questions, and also a 3rd edition to 4th/5th edition correlations as to where the text content (and hence, which videos match up), in case you want to run with an older/cheapter edition.

Here is the lab manual for Conceptual Chemistry. We were using an older edition which did not have a lab manual, so we did the simple demos in the textbook, plus matched up labs from the MicroChem kit and the TOPS units of Analysis, Solutions, and Heat (be sure to get the supply kit that goes with each unit to save time and effort).

[Side note: Jetta (MorningGlory of these boards) has been offering Physics with her Clover Creek classes. She uses the text of Conceptual Physics, by Paul Hewitt -- coincidentally, the father in law of John Suchocki, author of Conceptual Chemistry. Small world! (:D ]

Edited August 31, 2018 by Lori D.

[prairiewindmomma]

What would Events Planner think about doing the Dive Chemistry with the Nature's Workshop lab kit? A 12 month subscription to Dive is $63 https://diveintomath.com/elearning-course-for-dive-chemistry/ and the kit is $200ish....but if you have supplies on hand from Tech Support, most of it would be taken care of already.

We're doing BJUP this year.  If you find a used text and use the Home Science Tools kit that is less expensive than the full BJUP kit, that would also be pretty reasonable. 

Friendly Chemistry is something I'm looking at for the future for another of my kids.  Some of the activities are better suited for co-ops, from what I can tell from the samples, but I think everything seems adaptable.

[JoJosMom]

If you're looking Chem Lite (really, really lite), there's Conceptual Chemistry.

[Amateur Actress]

The Spectrum Chemistry

https://beginningspublishing.com/version2/spectrum.htm

Kitchen Chemistry by Guest Hollow

http://www.guesthollow.com/homeschool/science/chemistry_highschool/chemistry_home.html#topics

[acresoft]

Monarch Chemistry is an online Chemistry curriculum by Alpha Omega.

[hollyhock2]

There's also Mr. Q Chemistry with all kitchen labs.

[Lori D.]

53 minutes ago, JoJosMom said:

If you're looking Chem Lite (really, really lite), there's Conceptual Chemistry.

Totally NOT picking on you JoJosMom -- just using your comment as a springboard for a personal thought here. ?

Hmmm... I know everyone keeps saying that about Conceptual Chemistry, but it *was* originally written as a *college* intro for non-Science majors. And while it is certainly lite on the Algebra/math component, and it does not delve deeply into balancing equations, we did not find it lite in overall scope. When I compared table of contents with a few other programs, CC covered most of the same topics, was missing a few, but also included a few topics that other high school texts did not have. I felt it was an absolutely fine Chemistry text for a non-STEM high school student, with enough material to last a full year.

In comparison, I DO think MUS upper level maths are very lite (in overall topics and in depth). However, I've also read on these boards of MORE than one family with strong STEM-students who so grasped the math concepts in the way they were explained in MUS that the students went on to be honors Engineering students, and also tutored fellow students through all of the Calculus courses.

JMO! ?

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 minute ago, Lori D. said:

Totally NOT picking on you JoJosMom -- just using your comment as a springboard for a personal thought here. ?

Hmmm... I know everyone keeps saying that about Conceptual Chemistry, but it *was* originally written as a *college* intro for non-Science majors. And while it is certainly lite on the Algebra/math component, and it does not delve deeply into balancing equations, we did not find it lite in overall scope. When I compared table of contents with a few other programs, CC covered most of the same topics, was missing a few, but also included a few topics that other high school texts did not have. I felt it was an absolutely fine Chemistry text for a non-STEM high school student, with enough material to last a full year.

In comparison, I DO think MUS upper level maths are very lite (in overall topics and in depth). However, I've also read on these boards of MORE than one family with strong STEM-students who so grasped the math concepts in the way they were explained in MUS that the students went on to be honors Engineering students, and also tutored fellow students through all of the Calculus courses.

JMO! ?

JJM knows that my daughter is interested in pre-med.  That's something I forgot to put in my OP but it is something I am keeping in mind when looking at courses and texts. 

[Lori D.]

48 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

JJM knows that my daughter is interested in pre-med.  That's something I forgot to put in my OP but it is something I am keeping in mind when looking at courses and texts. 

Sorry JJM -- you had info that I did not, and I see why you were saying that now.

Jean -- that does make a difference -- I think many of us mistakenly were making the leap to DD having a lack of interest in Chemistry/Science from the "hating Apologia" comment in your OP, as a lot of the suggestions are for lighter or less math-heavy Chemistry programs. Oops! ?

If you can sign up for Connie's Clover Creek Chemistry, I think you and DD would be well-pleased with the solid prep it will provide for pre-med.

Edited August 31, 2018 by Lori D.

[Roadrunner]

For this year? Dicentra might have a spot in regular Chem course but not in honors. 

[Lori D.]

35 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

For this year? Dicentra might have a spot in regular Chem course but not in honors. 

I don't know if this is a possibility, but if she hasn't filled out the regular Chem class, perhaps she might shift that opening to the Honors class...? (So total # of students remains the same, just a higher # in Honors and a lower # in Regular.) Anyways, if you need the Honors class, it might be worth asking! (:D

[madteaparty]

I don’t know, but, 1. Bump, 2. talking about cost, DS’s high school chemistry class textbook costs $300+. That’s more than the college books cost last semester ? 

[MamaSprout]

Zumdahl? World of Chem and intro chem on level high school. Chemistry is first year college. Very readable.

[EKS]

My favorite chemistry texts are those by Zumdahl.  World of Chemistry is the high school version, which is high school level in formatting only.

Spectrum has good labs.  I'm not a fan of the religious aspect though, and many of the lessons weren't enough for my son to understand things thoroughly, so we supplemented with Zumdahl.

I have also used Conceptual Chemistry.  I think that the omission of the math actually obfuscates the concepts.

[Lori D.]

56 minutes ago, EKS said:

...I have also used Conceptual Chemistry.  I think that the omission of the math actually obfuscates the concepts.

lol. The opposite of why Conceptual Chemistry actually worked for our math struggler -- by removing what was opaque to him (abstract math concepts), he could really see and grasp the science concepts. (:D 

[JoJosMom]

21 hours ago, Lori D. said:

Sorry JJM -- you had info that I did not, and I see why you were saying that now.

Jean -- that does make a difference -- I think many of us mistakenly were making the leap to DD having a lack of interest in Chemistry/Science from the "hating Apologia" comment in your OP, as a lot of the suggestions are for lighter or less math-heavy Chemistry programs. Oops! ?

If you can sign up for Connie's Clover Creek Chemistry, I think you and DD would be well-pleased with the solid prep it will provide for pre-med.

 

No worries, Lori! This was my fault, a consequence of drive-by posting. Too much shorthand, not enough context. Clearly I need to re-order my life and spend more time here! ?

P.S. I still think you're the best!

[mom31257]

A friend just recommended this course. Her daughter really enjoyed it. 

https://www.learnchemistrybetter.com/

[8filltheheart]

Regardless of what you decide on, unless you already own a lab kit, a typical chemistry lab set is going to be around an additional $200. 

Are you looking for this yr or next?

[Angie in VA]

18 hours ago, JoJosMom said:

 

No worries, Lori! This was my fault, a consequence of drive-by posting. Too much shorthand, not enough context. Clearly I need to re-order my life and spend more time here! ?

P.S. I still think you're the best!

 

Amen!!!

Lori, I know a young man who used MUS all the way through, went to a good engineering school, and a couple of years ago landed an amazing job as an astronautical engineer. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

Regardless of what you decide on, unless you already own a lab kit, a typical chemistry lab set is going to be around an additional $200. 

Are you looking for this yr or next?

It’s for this year. And we have tons of lab equipment. Though I will be supplementing it esp with needed chemicals. 

Because of DD’s autoimmune issues that we are still pinning down, we will be finishing up a bit of last yesr’s work before starting next year’s. We will be needing to tack on a bit of extra time at the end of high school, I think, but I would rather give her a solid foundation than to try to follow a rigid time frame. 

[8filltheheart]

2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

It’s for this year. And we have tons of lab equipment. Though I will be supplementing it esp with needed chemicals. 

Because of DD’s autoimmune issues that we are still pinning down, we will be finishing up a bit of last yesr’s work before starting next year’s. We will be needing to tack on a bit of extra time at the end of high school, I think, but I would rather give her a solid foundation than to try to follow a rigid time frame. 

It sounds like you just need a book, maybe some lesson plans/supplements to work from independently at your own pace? I would check out Kolbe. http://books.kolbe.org/homeschool/chemistry

[HollyDay]

BJU Chemistry

Zumdahl

 

[cintinative]

On 9/1/2018 at 10:44 PM, mom31257 said:

A friend just recommended this course. Her daughter really enjoyed it. 

https://www.learnchemistrybetter.com/

 

They were at convention and were selling chemicals for their curriculum, which may or may not be a plus for you.  ?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Coming back to say that we went with Spectrum Chemistry and I love it.  I did Apologia Chemistry with my son and I like this so much better. 

[gstharr]

Thinkwell seems to be not well received on this board, but i like it. 

[Reefgazer]

I thought Zumdahl was good, solid chemistry, but it's not online.  Teacher and supplementary materials are all easily available on Amazon.  There is a coordinated lab manual that has a variety of labs to choose from, some very technical and chemical-sensitive, and others very simple and cheap.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Reefgazer

[pinkelement]

I also highly recommend Zumdahl World of Chemistry. We started with Spectrum Chemistry, but by the second semester switched to Zumdahl, though we continued with Spectrum labs. 

[SeaConquest]

21 hours ago, pinkelement said:

I also highly recommend Zumdahl World of Chemistry. We started with Spectrum Chemistry, but by the second semester switched to Zumdahl, though we continued with Spectrum labs. 

 

Why did you switch to Zumdahl vs Spectrum?

[8filltheheart]

16 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

Why did you switch to Zumdahl vs Spectrum?

Can't speak for the OP, but I can't see Spectrum working well for all students. It was a great fit for my physics ds who sees the big picture and makes all of the connections on his own. For kids who need more details and help seeing the big picture and how everything connects, I think they will probably need more than Spectrum offers. (Spectrum's labs are also a huge time commitment. There are a lot of them and they are vital to the program. ) 

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

Can't speak for the OP, but I can't see Spectrum working well for all students. It was a great fit for my physics ds who sees the big picture and makes all of the connections on his own. For kids who need more details and help seeing the big picture and how everything connects, I think they will probably need more than Spectrum offers. (Spectrum's labs are also a huge time commitment. There are a lot of them and they are vital to the program. ) 

Those are precisely the reasons why we like Spectrum so much- the big picture and the labs. 

[SeaConquest]

2 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

Can't speak for the OP, but I can't see Spectrum working well for all students. It was a great fit for my physics ds who sees the big picture and makes all of the connections on his own. For kids who need more details and help seeing the big picture and how everything connects, I think they will probably need more than Spectrum offers. (Spectrum's labs are also a huge time commitment. There are a lot of them and they are vital to the program. ) 

 

I am wondering how Spectrum compares to something like the Chang book + the Microchem lab kit? (Other than I know that Spectrum has a few religious references.) I think I recall that Kathy's kids also used Spectrum, as well as your DS, so it clearly is rigorous enough for high-performing STEM kids. 

[8filltheheart]

17 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

 

I am wondering how Spectrum compares to something like the Chang book + the Microchem lab kit? (Other than I know that Spectrum has a few religious references.) I think I recall that Kathy's kids also used Spectrum, as well as your DS, so it clearly is rigorous enough for high-performing STEM kids. 

Completely different approaches.  I havent really taught from the Chang book, but I own both the non-AP (dd is currently using it with Diacentra's class) and the AP (ds used it with ChemAdvantage). But, the Chang book is more like the PH book I have used with my other kids.  It is a full blown textbook with lots of details and explanations.  Spectrum is bare bones and only a fraction of the content of what is in the regular textbooks.

[Roadrunner]

11 minutes ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

Completely different approaches.  I havent really taught from the Chang book, but I own both the non-AP (dd is currently using it with Diacentra's class) and the AP (ds used it with ChemAdvantage). But, the Chang book is more like the PH book I have used with my other kids.  It is a full blown textbook with lots of details and explanations.  Spectrum is bare bones and only a fraction of the content of what is in the regular textbooks.

A little off the subject, but how much of a step up is Chang AP text  over the one used in Diacentra's class? 

[8filltheheart]

19 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

A little off the subject, but how much of a step up is Chang AP text  over the one used in Diacentra's class? 

I don't really know.  I would have to sit down and go through the books.  I have not taught the classes that used those texts.  I bet Connie can easily answer the question. @Dicentra

[SeaConquest]

26 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

A little off the subject, but how much of a step up is Chang AP text  over the one used in Diacentra's class? 

 

Just FYI, if you want to take a look, ChemAdvantage has a link to the Chang AP book online for free.

[EKS]

On 8/31/2018 at 9:50 AM, Jean in Newcastle said:

Oak Meadow costs $500 for books plus kit.  I would be teaching it.  As far as I can tell, you can't just enroll with one of their teachers for just one course.

Maybe someone else already corrected this, but you can enroll in just one Oak Meadow course (but it is ridiculously expensive).

Edited December 13, 2018 by EKS

[Roadrunner]

24 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

 

Just FYI, if you want to take a look, ChemAdvantage has a link to the Chang AP book online for free.

 

I looked and it looks to me as same in terms of concepts covered, but the AP book has more topics. What I know nothing about chemistry and a lot of things look same to me. 🙂 

[Dicentra]

54 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

A little off the subject, but how much of a step up is Chang AP text  over the one used in Diacentra's class? 

 

2 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

 

I looked and it looks to me as same in terms of concepts covered, but the AP book has more topics. What I know nothing about chemistry and a lot of things look same to me. 🙂 

In a nutshell, that's pretty much it. 🙂  If I were teaching AP Chem out of the AP Chang text (or any AP text, really), I'd add in problems that asked the students to dig deeper and that required them to pull concepts from a couple of different chapters in order to solve the problems.  I think that will be the "next step" for students going from my course to AP Chem - using multi-chapter thinking to approach problems.  My goal for the Honors Chem course is to give the students a good "first look" at the chapters one at a time (although the exams obviously cover more than one chapter 🙂 ).  In Honors Chem, for example, my students would be asked to find a molecular formula by being given experimental mass data - so basically using what they know from Chapter 3.  In AP Chem, students might be asked to find a molecular formula by being given experimental data requiring gas law calculations to determine masses and the molar mass - in other words, having to use concepts from both Chapter 3 and Chapter 5 to solve the problem.

The AP text will cover much of the same topics as Chang's General Chem text but often make the problems harder (adding in little twists, etc.).  Making problems slightly trickier and having more topics are the main differences between Chang's AP text and the non-AP text. 🙂