The girl boy scouts again

[SKL]

Today I happened to meet a guy who is a boy scout higher-up.  He says that the new policy allowing girls to join has led to new girl and boy recruits - the boy membership has increased because families prefer an organization that includes all the kids.

So I mentioned it would be nice if my daughters could make Eagle, but the change is coming too late for them.  He said that it wasn't too late - that they could make Eagle if they transferred at least 2.5 years before their 18th birthdays.  (My kids are turning 12 this October / January.)  Does anyone know if that is true?

Also, is it possible to do both AHG and boy scouts at the same time?  I don't know that I want to dump AHG without knowing what we're getting into.

[vonfirmath]

If anyone can do both AHG and boy scouts it is you and your family -- you like being busy.

 

I know we have AHG families that have older boys who did boy scouts -- so at least the parents were involved in both at the time.

 

[Sherry in OH]

A child who joins BSA at age 12 will have plenty of time to earn Eagle.  Depending on your state's public school starting age and/or redshirting, your children may not be any older than new scouts bridging from Cub Scouts.  Other than LDS packs, Cub Scout ranks are usually based on grade level rather than age.  A child who starts kindergarten at age 6 will be 12 years old in 5th grade.  Although they could switch to Boy Scouts when they turn 11, it is more common for youth who start as Cub Scouts to remain in that program and bridge to Boy Scouts after earning Arrow of Light.  (Arrow of Light is the rank 5th grade Cub Scouts work toward.)

Also remember that although a few scouts earn Eagle at a very young age, scouts have until their 18th birthdays to do so.  The average age for achieving Eagle in 2017 was 17 years, 2 months.   If your daughters are interested in BSA, get a copy of the Scout Handbook and have them learn the Scout and Tenderfoot requirements (much of it is memorization).  That way once they join, they can move quickly through those ranks along with the scouts who bridged from Cub Scouts (who learned these as AOL scouts).  

[SKL]

Hmm, that sounds promising.  I think I will look into it further.

 

[chiguirre]

2 hours ago, Margaret in CO said:

Yes, Girls can join girl troops Feb 1st. They will do mbs, ranks, everything, including Eagle! 14yos can join Venturing now, make the Discovery rank (2nd one, equivalent to First Class) and be elected to Order of the Arrow on Feb 1st! There will be NO difference between girls and boys other than separate bathroom facilities, and the need for women leaders. We have 3 girl Ventures who are hoping for OA in Feb. Girl troops can be linked, as in sharing committees with boy troops. Or they can be separate troops with separate adults. It's up to the Chartering Organization. Scouts can make Eagle sooner than 2.5 years. There is no time limit for First Class, 4 months at Star, 6 for Life, 6 for Eagle. Of course, getting all that camping (20 nights including one long-term camp) would be tricky. But if you have a troop that camps every month, it would be doable. Maybe the troop will camp every 2 weeks! We have a 12yo that just made Eagle. He joined at 10, having finished 5th grade. 

Hey Margaret, do you know if camping time with Sea Scouts (equivalent to Venturing) counts toward Eagle requirements? Do leadership roles in Sea Scouts/Venturing count?

Thanks!

[ScoutTN]

We have girls in our AHG troop who are also in a Venture Crew. Honestly, their time and attention end up unevenly divided and they end up doing one less than well. I'd say choose one and be all-in. 

 

 

[ScoutTN]

11 hours ago, Margaret in CO said:

On the flip side, we have a friend who is the Section Chief for OA (most of CO), in Sea Scouts, AND President of his Venture Crew. It can be done. Dd is President of her Crew, and was in 4-H for 11 years, and full time DE at our university. She did a varsity sport, and the college orchestra. Oh, and drama. Again, it can be done. Not every kid can do it. 

Yes, for sure. Proably easier when doubling BSA organizations than criss-crossing totally different ones? Maybe not in terms of just time and energy. 

But when I ask a girl at her Dolley Madison BOR, (last level award in AHG before Stars and Stripes) to choose a word from the AHG creed and discuss it's significance to her, and she says, "Brave", which is a BSA word and not an AHG word, there is a problem.  

[ScoutTN]

I wonder how soon information on girl BSA units will be available? Not the general info, but actual listings of troops in a particular area. Will that not be until February when troops actually begin to charter?

I know that neither of the troops Ds could choose to cross over to on the spring will have girl troops. Our Council is supportive of the girl troops and many CS packs are going to have girls, but many BSA troops and their charters here prefer to remain all boys, (yes, I know the troops are not technically to be co-ed, but in the long run, the difference will be just paperwork, imo.) or do not have leadership or physical space to add a girl troop. 

[SKL]

3 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

I wonder how soon information on girl BSA units will be available? Not the general info, but actual listings of troops in a particular area. Will that not be until February when troops actually begin to charter?

I know that neither of the troops Ds could choose to cross over to on the spring will have girl troops. Our Council is supportive of the girl troops and many CS packs are going to have girls, but many BSA troops and their charters here prefer to remain all boys, (yes, I know the troops are not technically to be co-ed, but in the long run, the difference will be just paperwork, imo.) or do not have leadership or physical space to add a girl troop. 

 

All I can say is that the boy scout leadership guy I spoke to (I think he is on the board of our local council) implied that they will be available around here for girls.

I also wonder why they chose Feb 1.  I don't foresee us doing anything beginning on Feb 1.  So my kids will be at least 8th graders before they can start working on anything in BSA.  Assuming we make a move, which is not decided yet.

My kids don't know about all of these changes, about Eagle and whether it's "better" than Stars and Stripes (on a resume).  Scouts is not their favorite activity to begin with.  We do it in part because I believe in them working toward a long-term goal / commitment.  Which doesn't seem supported by switching to BSA - but then again, 8th through 12th grade is still kind of a long term commitment.  Anyhoo - I would have to discuss it with them in a way that doesn't diss AHG, which is, in our experience, a great organization.

(I have always liked the idea of them doing "Venturing," but to be honest, neither of my kids is especially outdoorsy [unlike their mom].  We will decide on Venturing when the time comes.)

[chiguirre]

29 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

I wonder how soon information on girl BSA units will be available? Not the general info, but actual listings of troops in a particular area. Will that not be until February when troops actually begin to charter?

I know that neither of the troops Ds could choose to cross over to on the spring will have girl troops. Our Council is supportive of the girl troops and many CS packs are going to have girls, but many BSA troops and their charters here prefer to remain all boys, (yes, I know the troops are not technically to be co-ed, but in the long run, the difference will be just paperwork, imo.) or do not have leadership or physical space to add a girl troop. 

The troop associated with dd's Sea Scout ship is holding an information meeting toward the end of September to gage interest and see if there are enough women willing to be leaders for a girl troop. So, things are moving ahead but no one would necessarily know that unless they were already affiliated with the troop or ship. If you can ask around you might find a troop that's planning to launch a girls troop in February.

[SKL]

Would AHG be ticked if they found out we were doing both, I wonder ....  I'm guessing yes, since they cancelled their official connections with BSA over the gay inclusion issue....

But realistically - we are stretched pretty darn thin.  And I have no experience with boy scouts - I would presumably have to figure out their whole organization and be asked to volunteer and stuff like that.  So I dunno.  On the other hand, if the logistics were better (right now AHG is a 30 minute drive one-way) ....  Also if BSA does stuff in the summer, when AHG doesn't ....

How much difference does it make if you join in Boy Scouts in 8th grade with no history vs. having accomplishments from prior years?

[vonfirmath]

Since we have AHG leaders who also fill roles in Boy Scout troops (badges, etc -- something called Woodbadge? I think)  I don't think AHG would care if your kids were participating in both.

Interesting data point we are trying to understand. The Trail Life group that meets at the same location and night as we do has had an explosion of interest this year.  It's causing issue in our joint family campout since it means we may have to turn away families due to lack of space!  Time will tell if they stick around.

Edited August 30, 2018 by vonfirmath

[SKL]

1 minute ago, vonfirmath said:

Since we have AHG leaders who also fill roles in Boy Scout troops (badges, etc -- something called Woodbadge? I think)  I don't think AHG would care if your kids were participating in both.

Interesting data point we are trying to understand. The Trail Life group that meets at the same location and night as we do has had an explosion of interest this year.  It's causing issue in our joint family campout since it means we may have to turn away families due to lack of space!

That reminds me, our AHG troop has like 20 new families coming tonight to check us out.  Maybe press about the change in BSA brought more awareness to the other options?

[maize]

My oldest turns 15 in September. She likes the idea of being one of the first girls to get an Eagle but I was wondering about the time frame. If she joins venturing now does that give her a jump start that transfers over then?

[ktgrok]

Just tagging on to say that I was really excited to find a local cub scout pack that is doing girl dens this year. But even better? DH is excited, and going to switch his work schedule to go, so this won't all be on me!!!! WOOHOOO!

[City Mouse]

One thing that will make girl troops difficult in some areas is therule about having 5 new kids to start a troop. Where I live, it will be hard to find  five girls to start a troop. There  are several girls now in our Cub Scouts, so I could see it taking a few years for these girls to get old enough to form a Scout troop. I think the General plan here is to have a girl troop with the same sponsor and a shared troop committee. 

 

[amyx4]

9 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

I wonder how soon information on girl BSA units will be available? Not the general info, but actual listings of troops in a particular area. Will that not be until February when troops actually begin to charter?

 

Cub Scout Packs that are adding girls are listed by zip code at https://beascout.scouting.org/

I don't see any Boy Scout Troops listed that are adding girls yet. (Maybe it's just not in my zip code.)

[freesia]

I am guessing they are using the Feb 1 date because Feb is when cub scouts start bridging over to Scouts. 

[Soror]

6 hours ago, freesia said:

I am guessing they are using the Feb 1 date because Feb is when cub scouts start bridging over to Scouts. 

 

15 minutes ago, Margaret in CO said:

Perhaps. Ours cross over in April. Who knows!

 

Are you aware of the crossover changes?  http://www.pathwaytoadventure.org/media/upload/unit resources page/Cub Scout Crossover and Arrow of Light Ceremony-Statement.pdf

Interesting....here they cross over in December at Christmas Break, I didn't realize that was something that varied. (They do have Blue and Gold in Feb but the crossover is a special only Webelos ceremony.)

Edited August 31, 2018 by soror

[freesia]

4 minutes ago, soror said:

 

Interesting....here they cross over in December at Christmas Break, I didn't realize that was something that varied. (They do have Blue and Gold in Feb but the crossover is a special only Webelos ceremony.)

 

4 minutes ago, soror said:

 

Interesting....here they cross over in December at Christmas Break, I didn't realize that was something that varied. (They do have Blue and Gold in Feb but the crossover is a special only Webelos ceremony.)

Locally they cross over at the Blue and Gold dinners. 

[Soror]

15 minutes ago, Margaret in CO said:

Gosh, December would make it hard to get AoL requirements done! But it would be nice to have more time with the new Scouts before summer camp. Ah well, I was told by the CC of our Pack that it's April 25th this next year, so that's what it is! It's more predicated here on when we can get the hall. 

 

I think B&G is more common. 

As long as we've been involved in Scouts(8yrs) that's the way it's been done here. Our boys that regularly attend never had trouble getting the AoL. I'm not really familiar with the AoL program since the changes but I know they had more than a few cross over the last couple of years with the AoL. Our main Pack is very organized and our TM is very on the ball with making sure they provide opportunities for the requirements that involve a Troop. 

They've had an annual MBU in Dec for many, many years and that has traditionally been the first Troop event they go to. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by soror

[ScoutTN]

Our AoL ceremony is in March or early April and Crossover is in early May. 

[mom2scouts]

21 hours ago, City Mouse said:

One thing that will make girl troops difficult in some areas is therule about having 5 new kids to start a troop. Where I live, it will be hard to find  five girls to start a troop. There  are several girls now in our Cub Scouts, so I could see it taking a few years for these girls to get old enough to form a Scout troop. I think the General plan here is to have a girl troop with the same sponsor and a shared troop committee. 

 

I'm really wondering if the shared troop committe idea is going to work. Our troop committee are all volunteers who do a *lot* of work for the troop. None of the members of our committee have girls and I don't think they'll be too excited about being asked to do the work for TWO troops. Girl troops are going to be separate and there will be a lot of extra stuff that needs to be done separately for the other troop, even if some activities are shared. My dh already gives the equivalent of another full time job to the Boy Scouts and he often has to beg for more help. He doesn't have any more time to give and I think some of our committee members may leave if any more work is dumped on them. BSA got this big idea without thinking through how it's going to affect their already hard working volunteers.

[QueenCat]

32 minutes ago, mom2scouts said:

I'm really wondering if the shared troop committe idea is going to work. Our troop committee are all volunteers who do a *lot* of work for the troop. None of the members of our committee have girls and I don't think they'll be too excited about being asked to do the work for TWO troops. Girl troops are going to be separate and there will be a lot of extra stuff that needs to be done separately for the other troop, even if some activities are shared. My dh already gives the equivalent of another full time job to the Boy Scouts and he often has to beg for more help. He doesn't have any more time to give and I think some of our committee members may leave if any more work is dumped on them. BSA got this big idea without thinking through how it's going to affect their already hard working volunteers.

I would imagine that the committee would expand to include some of the parents of the girls. 

[raptor_dad]

22 hours ago, City Mouse said:

One thing that will make girl troops difficult in some areas is therule about having 5 new kids to start a troop. Where I live, it will be hard to find  five girls to start a troop. There  are several girls now in our Cub Scouts

Our council has predetermined  packs/troops that are enthusiastic about girls in scouting to refer scouts whose first choice can't muster 5 girls. Though of the ~5 troops I 'm most familiar with in Twin Cities and Rural MN, none are worried about having 5 girls. In some ways the rural troops are better off since they already have girl heavy venture crews made up of scouting families and former Girl Scouts whose troops disbanded after cadettes.

1 hour ago, mom2scouts said:

I'm really wondering if the shared troop committe idea is going to work. Our troop committee are all volunteers who do a *lot* of work for the troop. None of the members of our committee have girls and I don't think they'll be too excited about being asked to do the work for TWO troops. 

The committee issue has not been mentioned by anyone I've talked to. Around here most troops are planning on the BSA approved linked troop option. In reality this will look like a coed troop with single sex patrols. We will have separate leadership for a girl and boy Scout troop. These troops will have shared meetings and outings. The shared committee won't have much more work load than if the troop had recruited more boys. The funds and gear all technically belong to the chartering org(church) so if they are supporting  the change that shouldn't be an issue.

The main issue I hear about is having enough female leadership on outings. We thought we were set with 18+yo females we could convert to ASMs, but the new Scout rules require supervising adults on outings to be 21+yo. I think our troop is OK but others may have problems. Then the question becomes if you don't have female coverage, do you cancel the trip for everyone or do you just cancel for the girls. This is hugely problematic. So for troops I talk to, the key issue is having enough outdoorsy females to avoid that situation and counting on new parents in the first year isn't really tenable.