Jump to content

Menu

I hate MLMs.


laundrycrisis
 Share

Recommended Posts

I hate seeing another friend get sucked into another scheme with such high hopes.  This family works hard for their money and I hate knowing her work and cash will be going to build the bottom of the pyramid.  Her time and relationships will be negatively affected.  There will be a rush associated with an initial burst of sales as friends and family make obligatory purchases that won’t be repeated. Her venture might break even if she can pull a friend or to into the scheme and they manage to do the same.  I hate seeing people step into this. 

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not a fan of MLMs either.  The whole business model angers me. But I've never known anyone who got sucked into one feel negatively about it when it didn't pan out, even if they didn't break even.  Mind you, I don't know anyone who invested tons of money upfront like you have to if you sold LuLaRoe.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They are really bad. I am embarrassed to admit that years ago I got sucked into one of the MLM companies and it is just like you described. The initial excitement, not realizing that you are bother family and friends, such high hopes.

I worked it so hard and got nowhere. The woman who recruited me is still in it 25 years later so I guess it works for some people. But I would never ever ever recommend this type of endeavor to a friend.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

I am watching a friend do the same thing.  This is is mid priced jewelry; not hundreds of dollars but more than I would spend on that quality of jewelry.

They are living just above the poverty line and she’s watched a close family member rise to the top 5% of a brand new MLM and make reasonable money at it, so she thinks she can do the same and get them out of poverty.  She’d be so much better off getting a part time job, but no education/no skills and their belief that women shouldn’t work out of the home seem to doom them to poverty.  

It feels like I’m watching a train wreck.  She keeps posting about “I’m going to be so busy working my new job” and “Finally we’ll have some breathing room.”  No one seems to have the heart to shoot her down yet.

  

It is so sad to see ?  They use slick marketing to prey on the optimism of people who don't have the money to lose.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ya know, they do work sometimes, too.  I mean as a means to income.  My sister sells caBI clothing very successfully and has for going on 10 years now.  I don't get the vibe with her that  y'all are describing in this thread.  She's a smart, successful, happy, determined, active business woman.  I also know another gal with some familiarity who is killing it with Rhodan and Fields.  Maybe some people are turned off by their tactics, but obviously many aren't and many love the products and return to purchase them over and over again.  Just let people do what they want to do -- they may make it. 

I sold Uppercase Living for awhile.  I never made much money at it but really enjoyed the products, getting a discount, and meeting people.  But it did get old and I realized my kids needed me more than I needed to put vinyl on people's walls.  No bad feelings.  I don't think I ever made people feel pressured either.  I just said what I was doing and let people choose if they wanted to be contacted.  Didn't matter to me one way or the other. 

I just hate the wide broad brush stroke.  Not everyone hates them.  Some see them as a legitimate business model, just without the official storefront on Main Street. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, milovany said:

Ya know, they do work sometimes, too.  I mean as a means to income.  My sister sells caBI clothing very successfully and has for going on 10 years now.  I don't get the vibe with her that  y'all are describing in this thread.  She's a smart, successful, happy, determined, active business woman.  I also know another gal with some familiarity who is killing it with Rhodan and Fields.  Maybe some people are turned off by their tactics, but obviously many aren't and many love the products and return to purchase them over and over again.  Just let people do what they want to do -- they may make it. 

I sold Uppercase Living for awhile.  I never made much money at it but really enjoyed the products, getting a discount, and meeting people.  But it did get old and I realized my kids needed me more than I needed to put vinyl on people's walls.  No bad feelings.  I don't think I ever made people feel pressured either.  I just said what I was doing and let people choose if they wanted to be contacted.  Didn't matter to me one way or the other. 

I just hate the wide broad brush stroke.  Not everyone hates them.  Some see them as a legitimate business model, just without the official storefront on Main Street. 

4

The problem is that MLMs are not that. The problem is that people see them exactly as you describe. The fact that some people make it work is what draws people in, and most people, as in 99% of people, lose money. And they lose money to people who prey on the image of "oh, it's just another legitimate business model without a storefront." They are signed on by and sign up with their friends but lose money to a big corporation that counts on the fact that it's "sales consultants" will spend more on their product than any regular customer and will never make any money off the business model in the end. Of course there are success stories. There are people who show fancy trips and prizes as part of what could be because the need people to sign up under them to make money. But if you look at the income disclosure statements for any MLM company, you will find that the vast majority spending money to sign up never make a dime.

MLM corporations make money off of people signing up, dabbling a bit, realizing they are spending more than they are making, and then quietly dropping out. They make money off of people's business failures.

It's one thing to start an independent business online and sell your own wares and lose money. It's one thing to open a franchise which counts on a profitable location and business in order to make money. In those cases, no one is counting on your losses for their profits. MLM corporations do, under the guise of "just another business model". 

  • Like 13
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

I am watching a friend do the same thing.  This is is mid priced jewelry; not hundreds of dollars but more than I would spend on that quality of jewelry.

Ugh, I had a very close friend do that one and felt forced to buy something.  It was nice, but overpriced.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, goldberry said:

That's what I always wondered.  Do people actually make money selling, or do they only make money when they get people to sell underneath them?  My niece makes money with R&F, but she's a very aggressive person and has people selling under her.

Various MLMs make a variety of claims. Most claim there is no requirement to sign anyone up (because pyramid scheme, hey!) and some claim there is no requirement to meet monthly minimums in sales in order to remain "active". But obviously, if you're not meeting any sort of minimum or signing people up, you aren't moving up the chain or making any income. And you yourself have probably signed up for some monthly delivery of product (think R+F or Plexus). I think Usborne is probably the most forgiving in this regard, but if you're just joining the company to get a discount with no illusion of selling anything, then you haven't lost anything.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 I hate MLM’s.  It’s like every homeschool mom has to sell some overpriced stuff to help with the household budget.  If everyone would quit buying the overpriced stuff, then they would not need to sell overpriced stuff to everyone else.  

Sorry, I’m not going to buy your overpriced stuff.

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The best advice I've heard if you are getting in MLM is to sell something where people naturally need to replenish items (so like food or skin care or makeup or even craft supplies) and join a company where you do not stock items.getting

sometimes it you really like the products, it is worth it to briefly joined when they have a sign up special and buy as much as you can afford with your discount.

YMMV

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, HomeAgain said:

I wish I had bookmarked the link to the MLM blog story someone posted here once.  MLMs had always made me uneasy, and reading that I was able to pinpoint the whys and see the various "techniques" used in a lot of the companies.

This is it, I think. After I read how they are coached to post on FB, so much more of my FB feed made sense. Because your upline coaches you to post on social media, not just about MLM, of course, but about certain things...so that your MLM posts blend in better. It's really insidious.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, EmseB said:

This is it, I think. After I read how they are coached to post on FB, so much more of my FB feed made sense. Because your upline coaches you to post on social media, not just about MLM, of course, but about certain things...so that your MLM posts blend in better. It's really insidious.

Yes, it was!  Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, EmseB said:

This is it, I think. After I read how they are coached to post on FB, so much more of my FB feed made sense. Because your upline coaches you to post on social media, not just about MLM, of course, but about certain things...so that your MLM posts blend in better. It's really insidious.

And THAT is why any friend mentioning a MLM thing, etc on Facebook is put on a 30 day snooze.  When they come out of FB jail they start over but the very next mention they get put back in FB jail.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

And THAT is why any friend mentioning a MLM thing, etc on Facebook is put on a 30 day snooze.  When they come out of FB jail they start over but the very next mention they get put back in FB jail.

LOL, I love this.  I'm going to do this too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

And THAT is why any friend mentioning a MLM thing, etc on Facebook is put on a 30 day snooze.  When they come out of FB jail they start over but the very next mention they get put back in FB jail.

LOL, I love the phrase "FB jail."  Now I have a name for a practice I often employ...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, gosh, Tupperware is direct sales; Creative Memories was direct sales; Avon is direct sales ("direct sales" is the correct term for that kind of business; "MLM" is recent derogatory nomenclature). I like my Tupperware, and I used to buy Creative Memories scrapbooking supplies, and I love Avon's Skin So Soft, and my Amway products. And there are other direct sales companies I've bought from over the years.

It is not direct sales that is the problem; it is the bad-mannered people who get into them that is the problem. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Ellie said:

Well, gosh, Tupperware is direct sales; Creative Memories was direct sales; Avon is direct sales ("direct sales" is the correct term for that kind of business; "MLM" is recent derogatory nomenclature). I like my Tupperware, and I used to buy Creative Memories scrapbooking supplies, and I love Avon's Skin So Soft, and my Amway products. And there are other direct sales companies I've bought from over the years.

It is not direct sales that is the problem; it is the bad-mannered people who get into them that is the problem. 

CM is back...I'm not sure how long their money problems kept them from selling products or what exactly happened with the "consultant s" but they have a website again with stuff for sale.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My aunt sold some health shake/bar via a MLM. When my DH was in the hospital after being diagnosed with cancer, she visited and brought a gift bag...full of that brand meal replacement bars. Because they "replenish and heal on a cellular level." And, you know, if we liked them she could give us a discount on an order...and if I needed $ for medical bills, I could sign up and sell under her!

Aw heck no... she got a quick "unfollow" on FB. 

  • Confused 1
  • Sad 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, EmseB said:

But obviously, if you're not meeting any sort of minimum or signing people up, you aren't moving up the chain or making any income. 

This was my experience as a Pampered Chef consultant. I made some money from selling products, but in order to make enough and do well enough, you’d really better have a downline. And in the meantime, if your downline wasn’t big enough then you never actually made any money off your downline, someone else did.

I’ll go to a Pamperd Chef party if I really have to (like for a bridal shower), but I’ll never willingly go or buy their products again. As far as I’m concerned, the rest of the MLMs (Tupperware, you’re included) don’t exist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Danae said:

"Multi-level marketing" is the polite term for when it would be socially inappropriate to say "pyramid scheme" or "scam." 

Pyramid schemes are illegal. FYI. Most direct sales companies are not scams, either, at least not the ones that actually stay in business.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, unsinkable said:

CM is back...I'm not sure how long their money problems kept them from selling products or what exactly happened with the "consultant s" but they have a website again with stuff for sale.

Oooo...I'm gonna go check it out. I need a few specialty pages for my dd's scrapbook...the dd who celebrated her 40th bday in May.... better late than never, eh? :-)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got into one MLM for a while. 

It emphasized building an organization, and so I tried to do that, but professionally, so that fit with my style.  When I actually decided to quit was when I heard from a guy who was very successful how he found prospects once he ran out of friends, family, and acquaintances.  He would do things like go to restaurants where they collected business cards, steal a handful of cards, call the people, claim they had met, and ask for an appointment to share business concepts back and forth.  This was pretty successful for him, but I would not have done it, and I realized that I was going to hit a wall and splat there, and so I stopped.  That was a very long time ago.

But!

It was a great experience for me in a lot of ways.  I learned a lot about human nature, and about small business accounting, and about tax write offs, and about financial independence.  Those were good, good lessons.  And, I liked and continued to use a lot of the core products, so that was good to know about.

I find that a lot of MLM stuff is marked up to mark down, but I will buy big when it's marked down, but not regularly.  So, for instance, I knew a Silpada lady who would always call me when she had a deadline to meet and some samples to sell off cheap, maybe twice a years, and she'd bring all her stuff over to my office and I'd buy some, but I didn't go to the typical parties or look at the seasonal catalogues of new stuff.  Same for Pampered Chef--I got enough in the regular channels to know what I liked and what I wanted, and watched for opportunities to get a good win/win deal on it from a distributor I cared about.  When I was a little smaller I liked CAbI as well.  Same idea.  

There are a lot of really nice people who sell Amway or Avon or Tupperware, too, and I don't see any reason to avoid them unless they get pushy or desperate.  I don't mind saying no thanks though, and that certainly helps.  I think it is very unfair to tar everyone in a certain industry with the same brush, and also I think that if more people made mistakes in a small investment MLM context they would be more likely to be brave enough to start their own larger businesses down the road--and that that would be good for everybody.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Carol in Cal. said:

I got into one MLM for a while. 

It emphasized building an organization, and so I tried to do that, but professionally, so that fit with my style.  When I actually decided to quit was when I heard from a guy who was very successful how he found prospects once he ran out of friends, family, and acquaintances.  He would do things like go to restaurants where they collected business cards, steal a handful of cards, call the people, claim they had met, and ask for an appointment to share business concepts back and forth.  This was pretty successful for him, but I would not have done it, and I realized that I was going to hit a wall and splat there, and so I stopped.  That was a very long time ago.

But!

It was a great experience for me in a lot of ways.  I learned a lot about human nature, and about small business accounting, and about tax write offs, and about financial independence.  Those were good, good lessons.  And, I liked and continued to use a lot of the core products, so that was good to know about.

I find that a lot of MLM stuff is marked up to mark down, but I will buy big when it's marked down, but not regularly.  So, for instance, I knew a Silpada lady who would always call me when she had a deadline to meet and some samples to sell off cheap, maybe twice a years, and she'd bring all her stuff over to my office and I'd buy some, but I didn't go to the typical parties or look at the seasonal catalogues of new stuff.  Same for Pampered Chef--I got enough in the regular channels to know what I liked and what I wanted, and watched for opportunities to get a good win/win deal on it from a distributor I cared about.  When I was a little smaller I liked CAbI as well.  Same idea.  

There are a lot of really nice people who sell Amway or Avon or Tupperware, too, and I don't see any reason to avoid them unless they get pushy or desperate.  I don't mind saying no thanks though, and that certainly helps.  I think it is very unfair to tar everyone in a certain industry with the same brush, and also I think that if more people made mistakes in a small investment MLM context they would be more likely to be brave enough to start their own larger businesses down the road--and that that would be good for everybody.

 

It's not tarring everyone. It's pointing out that the business model itself is not a good way for people to make money. If people want to have fun, buy products they like, maybe have a few parties, then whatever floats their boat. But R+F and LuLaRoe are expensive products. So is Plexus. So if one participates because they can afford to spend a lot of $$$ on skin care or cosmetics or dubiously effective health drinks or romance toys, or, or, or... then it's no skin off my nose. Really.

But, to be honest, that is not why most of my friends who do MLMs got into their businesses, and it is not how they operate on social media. And if you ever happen to watch a video of a Rodan and Fields or LuLaRoe or Plexus convention...that is not what those corporations are selling to their consultants. And I would bet dollars to donuts that almost all of them who are trying to sell me on their "great opportunity" are losing money every month. And while it may be a small investment to you that they are losing in the name of somehow later being brave and trying again, that's not the demographic of people I see getting sucked in. I see people who need the extra money to be SAHMs or have recently divorced or have a ton of kids and one income they want to bolster.

The corporations are "hiring" people to buy their product, they are paying extremely low sales commissions, and asking those salespeople to find other people to hawk their stuff. That is what I object to. That is what I tar with a brush of objectively not okay.

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, a lot of them have really low buy ins of stuff that the buyer would actually want, not just mini samples or sales tools or 'inventory'.  They are not all overpriced nutsy commitments like LLR.  Pampered Chef comes to mind.  I've seen their kits, and they are a really great value.  People actually do get into PC to sell PC, not just to build a downline, and they make money and have a good time doing it.  You really are tarring a wide variety with a wide brush, unjustly.

Edited by Carol in Cal.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with EmseB.

I'm old enough to remember the heyday of Tupperware and Avon. My mom and grandma bought, I bought...I was there for the early days of Partylite candles and Longaberger baskets, etc.

Back then, the people were selling kitchenware, makeup, candles, and baskets. If they had downlines, uplines, investments and quotas, that was kept from the consumer. I mean, if you had a brain, you knew they were trying to make money and that all sales jobs have requirements. But if you were the customer, you were just being sold some candles.

What's going on NOW is that people are being suckered into selling jobs to other suckers. All you hear about the product is that is AMAZING and a MIRACLE and it SELLS ITSELF, so you, too, can get rich by peddling it to friends, neighbors, family, and the whole world because THEY ALREADY WANT IT.

I am far less offended by a MLM person who tells me how much she loves her product* than I am offended by someone who tells me to start working for them as a peddler.

*I mean if I actually ask. If I put out the question, "Where can I get a really great pizza cutter, because I'm tired of replacing them," I am not offended if a Pampered Chef rep speaks up. I did ask. Ditto for baskets, candles, and even cleaning supplies. The other disclaimer is that I'm not offended if it's sensible and apropos: If I ask for a local recommendation for a neurosurgeon, don't sell me essential oils!

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As someone who has been involved in the industry for quite some time, and has a diverse network of friends, from blue collar worker to millionaires, I can tell you that there are truly bad MLM companies out there and there are truly legit and great ones, as well. Too many of the companies do not have great training for their reps and that is where it all falls apart. Those that have solid training available will never "eat someone's lunch." I can also tell you that those who have a true understanding of the way business works encourage involvement in network marketing - they see how much sense it makes.  In my own experience, your corporate job is the fickle one - no corporate job has any sense of loyalty to it's employees anymore. My husband has worked his tail off for various corporations that held no qualms about telling him how great he was one month only to 'lay him off' (fancy word for 'fired') the very next month. The income I have earned from network marketing has saved our hides. There is nothing wrong with wanting to make ends meet. And we all learn as we go. Sometimes, I think, when we're new to the network marketing industry, we forget about the process of friendship. We're so desperate because we aren't making ends meet that we want it to work RIGHT NOW but that' not how anything of lasting value actually works. 

In other words, don't be too hard on those who are trying to make ends meet one way or another. Encourage them. IF you are in a position to speak truth into their lives (close friend), then feel free to state what you see might be going wrong or how they could do better. Even ask if you can help in some way. You may not agree with what they are doing, and you may have had negative experiences yourself, but that's not going to help your friend(s). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

No, a lot of them have really low buy ins of stuff that you actually want.  They are not all overpriced nutsy commitments like LLR.  Pampered Chef comes to mind.  I've seen their kits, and they are a really great value.  People actually do get into PC to sell PC, not just to build a downline, and they make money and have a good time doing it.  You really are tarring a wide variety with a wide brush, unjustly.

1

That's because you're not reading what I'm saying. I'm not talking about people who enjoy the products and have a hobby business where they sell things to people who express interest. And Carol, every. single. one. of my friends selling MLM think it is "stuff I actually want."  All of them think that! You are going to buy skincare products anyway, why not buy from me instead of Target? You are going to buy a pizza cutter anyway, why not buy from me instead of Target? You need fruits and veggies anyway, why not take it in this dehydrated pill instead of worrying you're not getting enough??

What you're talking about is not the culture of most MLM corporations. Again, watch a conference video for R+F, Plexus Worldwide, JuicePlus, etc., etc. LLR is the most obviously high priced investment because it's all at once, upfront. But other companies do the same thing spread out over monthly subscription deals. Look at how much a monthly "preferred customer" subscription costs to buy the products. Read claims about health, weight loss, great skin, fair trade jewelry that helps the impoverished in other countries, all natural, cleansing toxins, ridding your life of "chemicals", and on and on and on. Read about how consultants are coached to post on social media, making sure they post something about their family or an inspirational quote every day just to make sure that their sales posts aren't all people see. Watch your otherwise sensible friends throw $120 every month into buying product from a company so that they can remain active as sales people.

What is going on all over social media is not the Avon lady calling or tupperware parties or even cool kitchen gadgets that you might "need anyway". Perhaps rather than accusing me of painting with too broad a brush, you might be narrowly defining MLMs as the products you enjoy and find to be valuable for yourself?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a friend that sells Thirty One bags.  I know she does and I have seen coworkers order from her at work but O don't think she has ever asked me if I wanted to buy anything.  It is more of a "if you are interested, you contact me" type thing.  That I don't mind.

Then there are the numerous (ok, all Plexus people) that keep getting put in FB jail for posting all the time about their miracle cures.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, athena1277 said:

 I hate MLM’s.  It’s like every homeschool mom has to sell some overpriced stuff to help with the household budget.  If everyone would quit buying the overpriced stuff, then they would not need to sell overpriced stuff to everyone else.  

Sorry, I’m not going to buy your overpriced stuff.

 

Oh, in the mil spouse community where un/underemployment is rampant, MLMs reign supreme. I hate them all. I do have friends who have earned great trips, etc. but that is not my bag. I tolerate their FB posts because I like them personally. I do not attend sales parties.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everyone claims their MLM thingy is different and that it's not bad companies, it's bad reps/advisors/consultants etc.  Except for, most of the time, it's not.  It's exactly the same and the companies are basically all using the same dodgy practices to exploit their reps.  I can't be angry at the reps themselves because they are the ones getting ripped off the most.   

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Ellie said:

Well, gosh, Tupperware is direct sales; Creative Memories was direct sales; Avon is direct sales ("direct sales" is the correct term for that kind of business; "MLM" is recent derogatory nomenclature). I like my Tupperware, and I used to buy Creative Memories scrapbooking supplies, and I love Avon's Skin So Soft, and my Amway products. And there are other direct sales companies I've bought from over the years.

It is not direct sales that is the problem; it is the bad-mannered people who get into them that is the problem. 

Not all direct sales are MLM. The distinguishing factors are sales methods and pre-purchase and quotas. Those guarantee a profit to the parent company and put all the risk on the consultant, rather than balancing risk.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not easily surprised by bad behavior, but I admit I didn't realize how common it was for people to tell cancer patients the product they're selling could help heal them. My SIL battled 11 years of breast cancer before she died last year and it brought out every health product MLM person around. Unfortunately she attended an evangelical mega church so there were plenty of obnoxious people who felt compelled to try to sell her stuff in hopes of healing her.  She didn't buy into any of it and was gracious enough to not roll her eyes at them or confront them the way they deserved.  We did hear her and her husband and her kids vent about it.

A friend started a small church (40 people total at the beginning) and one of members sold bags from 31 or whatever it's called.  She has young  6 kids (raised Gothardite) and always invited the new people with kids to come over to her house for fellowship. None of them who visited with her ever came back.  Later the pastor found out that she had been inviting people over to try to suck them into selling the product.

  • Sad 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, EmseB said:

That's because you're not reading what I'm saying. I'm not talking about people who enjoy the products and have a hobby business where they sell things to people who express interest. And Carol, every. single. one. of my friends selling MLM think it is "stuff I actually want."  All of them think that! You are going to buy skincare products anyway, why not buy from me instead of Target? You are going to buy a pizza cutter anyway, why not buy from me instead of Target? You need fruits and veggies anyway, why not take it in this dehydrated pill instead of worrying you're not getting enough??

What you're talking about is not the culture of most MLM corporations. Again, watch a conference video for R+F, Plexus Worldwide, JuicePlus, etc., etc. LLR is the most obviously high priced investment because it's all at once, upfront. But other companies do the same thing spread out over monthly subscription deals. Look at how much a monthly "preferred customer" subscription costs to buy the products. Read claims about health, weight loss, great skin, fair trade jewelry that helps the impoverished in other countries, all natural, cleansing toxins, ridding your life of "chemicals", and on and on and on. Read about how consultants are coached to post on social media, making sure they post something about their family or an inspirational quote every day just to make sure that their sales posts aren't all people see. Watch your otherwise sensible friends throw $120 every month into buying product from a company so that they can remain active as sales people.

What is going on all over social media is not the Avon lady calling or tupperware parties or even cool kitchen gadgets that you might "need anyway". Perhaps rather than accusing me of painting with too broad a brush, you might be narrowly defining MLMs as the products you enjoy and find to be valuable for yourself?

I have read exactly what you're saying, and what you are saying is that 'every single one' is a certain way, which several have said is not the case.  I think it's fairly rude to the people here who are participating nicely in MLMs (none of which is me, TYVM) to talk like that. 

But also, did not mean 'you EMSEB' in my post, so I edited it for clarity.  What I meant was that some of the MLM companies have starter kits that are attractive for actual use by the people who want to sell that stuff, not just as as sales aids or sample sizes to give out, and that Pampered Chef is a good example of one like that.  Maybe if you look at the Pampered Chef starter kit you will see what I mean.  To the extent that you say 'They are all like that' referring to these companies and these reps, I definitely stand by my view that you're painting with too broad a brush.  

And, yes, I would rather buy things from someone I know, locally, who is benefitting.  That's one of the reasons I participated in CSA for quite a few years, and it's why I look for small, nonchain or local chain businesses preferentially.  I don't see any harm in that--in fact I see considerable good in it.  It benefits the local community more than buying from Target, for sure.  

It concerns me that there is more and more consolidation of business into a few megachains, and I prefer to help other options stay alive.  If that means I buy the local Silpada lady's samples at a good price, a win for both of us, then great.  I'm helping her develop business skills that might mean that she will open a yarn store in two years, or an independent hardware store, or a shoe repair place.  How else do people learn to do these things except by doing them in a small, lowish risk way or apprenticing to someone else?  These are valuable skills, and I appreciate being part of that process.  

It is true that there are a lot of people who throw good money after bad in small businesses.  I have a relative who did that with an electrical business, and a friend who did that with a video store.  That's not limited to or even more common AFAIK with MLMs.  But losing $120/month is a lot more easy to get back from than bankruptcy, and maybe that will be just the right experience to teach someone how to cut or mitigate their losses in a larger venture someday.  Valuable lessons, arrived at fairly cheaply.

I hate specific patterns that I sometimes see in MLMs.  One is a frantic desperation in the attempted use of relationships for business.  Another is a tendency to see your answer as the answer for everyone, almost like a brainwashed/brainwashing type of mentality.  But really, people who are like that are going to be like that whatever they do, and I hope that they learn and grow and change, sooner rather than later.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have an older male friend who recently messaged me, asking how things are going. I replied about being busy, mentioned each of my kids by name and what they are doing, and asked about his daughter. His reply? "Yes, he is. Good to hear from you. We're doing great everything is good and thanks for asking, Hope you've heard about the latest beneficiary trending going on?"  (sic)  His response had absolutely nothing to do with the specifics I wrote about. This sounds like an MLM to me. Has anyone heard anything about beneficiary trending in an MLM? This is an older man (he and his wife are raising their granddaughter) and I'm wondering what he's referring to. (But I'm not curious enough to continue to respond! :) )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I have read exactly what you're saying, and what you are saying is that 'every single one' is a certain way, which several have said is not the case.  I think it's fairly rude to the people here who are participating nicely in MLMs (none of which is me, TYVM) to talk like that. 

But also, did not mean 'you EMSEB' in my post, so I edited it for clarity.  What I meant was that some of the MLM companies have starter kits that are attractive for actual use by the people who want to sell that stuff, not just as as sales aids or sample sizes to give out, and that Pampered Chef is a good example of one like that.  Maybe if you look at the Pampered Chef starter kit you will see what I mean.  To the extent that you say 'They are all like that' referring to these companies and these reps, I definitely stand by my view that you're painting with too broad a brush.  

And, yes, I would rather buy things from someone I know, locally, who is benefitting.  That's one of the reasons I participated in CSA for quite a few years, and it's why I look for small, nonchain or local chain businesses preferentially.  I don't see any harm in that--in fact I see considerable good in it.  It benefits the local community more than buying from Target, for sure.  

It concerns me that there is more and more consolidation of business into a few megachains, and I prefer to help other options stay alive.  If that means I buy the local Silpada lady's samples at a good price, a win for both of us, then great.  I'm helping her develop business skills that might mean that she will open a yarn store in two years, or an independent hardware store, or a shoe repair place.  How else do people learn to do these things except by doing them in a small, lowish risk way or apprenticing to someone else?  These are valuable skills, and I appreciate being part of that process.  

It is true that there are a lot of people who throw good money after bad in small businesses.  I have a relative who did that with an electrical business, and a friend who did that with a video store.  That's not limited to or even more common AFAIK with MLMs.  But losing $120/month is a lot more easy to get back from than bankruptcy, and maybe that will be just the right experience to teach someone how to cut or mitigate their losses in a larger venture someday.  Valuable lessons, arrived at fairly cheaply.

I hate specific patterns that I sometimes see in MLMs.  One is a frantic desperation in the attempted use of relationships for business.  Another is a tendency to see your answer as the answer for everyone, almost like a brainwashed/brainwashing type of mentality.  But really, people who are like that are going to be like that whatever they do, and I hope that they learn and grow and change, sooner rather than later.

I don't know how to get past this. I read through my post where I said the following things, neither of which are 'every single one':

Quote

 

I'm not talking about people who enjoy the products and have a hobby business where they sell things to people who express interest.

What you're talking about is not the culture of most MLM corporations.

 

 

What I said about "every single one", is that every single person I know who sells MLM stuff tells me that it is stuff I actually want/need and therefore I should buy it from them instead of somewhere else. That was in direct response to a specific quote in your post.

Plenty of people start businesses without going into direct sales first. I don't know any serious entrepreneur that would advise going into direct sales as a stepping stone to opening one's own business. If you have seed money, there are almost always better gambles to take. Plus, people going into direct sales aren't starting their own business. They are signing on as independent contractors for a corporation. If Silpada lady is like 99% of people in direct sales, you are not helping her develop skills by buying from her, you are enriching the corporation she's freelancing for and she is going to lose money in the deal.

And buying from an MLM is not "buying local". Most of your money goes to a large, multi-million dollar corporation (i.e. might as well be a megachain) that is profiting off of a local salesperson who works on a paltry commission and doesn't get PTO, a 401k, or any offer of any other benefits because they aren't even an employee of said corporation. The corporations use direct sales as a business model largely to avoid hiring legit employees which is much more expensive than using independent contractors. Look at it this way: if Target hired people as independent contractors and based everything said contractors made on what they could sell, or what they could sign up other people under them to sell, and didn't offer them breaks or basic workplace protections, or pay them a minimum wage, people would be marching in the streets. People do boycott Walmart because of their employment practices and they offer far more in terms of wages and benefits than any direct sales organization. I would be happy, genuinely happy, to read about a direct sales company that hires and pays its consultants as employees. I would be overjoyed to not make a blanket statement in that regard.

Here's the thing: I am not against the gig economy. As a SAHM who moves a lot and homeschools, I have held several jobs that have allowed me to work from home, do freelance jobs as an independent contractor, so I don't have to pay for childcare, etc. I have never had to pay up front to "join" these jobs, however, and I am not in anyone's downline or upline, I am offered opportunities to become a salaried employee, I don't have to market anything to my friends or family, and I can't actually sign anyone else up to work under me doing the same job. So I am sympathetic to the desire to earn cash on a side hustle. I don't think most, many, a lot (note, I am not saying all) of direct sales companies actually help women like me do this in an ethical way.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, wilrunner said:

I have an older male friend who recently messaged me, asking how things are going. I replied about being busy, mentioned each of my kids by name and what they are doing, and asked about his daughter. His reply? "Yes, he is. Good to hear from you. We're doing great everything is good and thanks for asking, Hope you've heard about the latest beneficiary trending going on?"  (sic)  His response had absolutely nothing to do with the specifics I wrote about. This sounds like an MLM to me. Has anyone heard anything about beneficiary trending in an MLM? This is an older man (he and his wife are raising their granddaughter) and I'm wondering what he's referring to. (But I'm not curious enough to continue to respond! ?)

That kind of sounds like someone hacked an account and is trying to scam you like a Nigerian prince rather than an MLM sales pitch.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, EmseB said:

That kind of sounds like someone hacked an account and is trying to scam you like a Nigerian prince rather than an MLM sales pitch.

That is a take on the message I hadn't considered. I might have to text him tomorrow morning and ask. It's definitely an out of character response. Thank you!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, EmseB said:

 

Plenty of people start businesses without going into direct sales first. I don't know any serious entrepreneur that would advise going into direct sales as a stepping stone to opening one's own business. If you have seed money, there are almost always better gambles to take. Plus, people going into direct sales aren't starting their own business. They are signing on as independent contractors for a corporation. If Silpada lady is like 99% of people in direct sales, you are not helping her develop skills by buying from her, you are enriching the corporation she's freelancing for and she is going to lose money in the deal.

And buying from an MLM is not "buying local". Most of your money goes to a large, multi-million dollar corporation (i.e. might as well be a megachain) that is profiting off of a local salesperson who works on a paltry commission and doesn't get PTO, a 401k, or any offer of any other benefits because they aren't even an employee of said corporation. 

 

Of course people start businesses without going into direct sales first--there is no dispute about that.  However, learning some entrepeneurial skills at a low cost in direct sales is a good stepping stone for a lot of people.  Some of them get coaching in sales techniques, prospecting, and interpersonal skills, or are encouraged to read in those areas every day.  Some of them get to see others who are more successful and glean what has made them that way.  They learn a little small business bookkeeping, and how to track expenses for deductions, and they are encouraged to do so.  They gain experience in keeping rough track of whether and to what extent they are ahead or behind, and in making business decisions.  These are transferrable skills, and good ones.

Buying from someone I know in an MLM is definitely buying local.  Some of the money goes to that owner, not to the business.  That's the commission part, and it's the same for any small business storefronnt as well--much of their spending is for overhead and wholesale purchases, but when I buy from them, some of my money goes to the local proprietor.  It's the same for all businesses, pretty much, except maybe app development.  That Silpada lady learned to know her customers, and knew that she could call on me when she needed a quick sale on the last day of the month from time to time.  She also knew that I was pretty much not going to go to her parties or host one, but also that if I did host one, it would be with her.  She had other customers that wanted to see the new stuff every season (I think they had new releases 2-3X annually) and would pretty consistently buy one or two new pieces every time.  She knew how to treat them, too.  These, again are transferable skills.  Once Silpada failed I lost track of her, but I'll bet that she has her own business in another field now, and that she is doing great.  She deserves it.

Edited by Carol in Cal.
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

However, learning some entrepreneurial skills at a low cost in direct sales is a good stepping stone for a lot of people...

 

I know this was the case for me.  I've been involved in two of what might be considered MLMs (I think of them as direct sales).  One was the above mentioned Uppercase Living and the other was Blessed Hope Communications (back when people paid for long distance, this Christian-owned company sold long distance through reps who then earned a monthly commission on the long distance bills of "their" customers)).  I learned so, so much through doing both of these things, maybe mostly BHC.  I either just had a natural entrepreneurial bent going into all this, or because of BHC and a little bit because of UL, I developed one.  I constantly think about different ways to start a business/make some extra cash now (in a good, creative way, not an obsessive way).  To fulfill my entrepreneurial vacuum for now, I run an Airbnb -- gasp! is that considered MLM and not a real business? LOL -- and continue learning and growing through the experience.  I know how to make a guest feel valued, to make their stay special, to communicate in appropriate ways to meet their needs, etc.  It's been great!  And all without owning a storefront business.  In fact, I veer away from storefronts because of the myriads of regulations inherently involved. 

Thanks, Carol, for your posts. 

Edited by milovany
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

.  But really, people who are like that are going to be like that whatever they do, and I hope that they learn and grow and change, sooner rather than later.

You make a lot of great points, but I think that there are companies that specifically foster excellence versus brand loyalty. It is too bad more do not. I don't think it is a personality type alone though. They need a leader. A much healthier attitude for those who need a simple worldview is prayer, or love, or charity--something more generally applicable and also something that can be done privately without bugging the marks AHEM customers.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, EmseB said:

That kind of sounds like someone hacked an account and is trying to scam you like a Nigerian prince rather than an MLM sales pitch.

 

Whoa. I can’t believe you’re talking about your own long-lost distant cousin that way. He is totally a real Nigerian prince and he would absolutely have sent you all that money you’d inherited from a relative you’d never heard of, if you hadn’t been too cheap to send him that few thousand dollars he needed so he could handle the paperwork for you.

You’re so ungrateful. Ungrateful I say!!!

?

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

Whoa. I can’t believe you’re talking about your own long-lost distant cousin that way. He is totally a real Nigerian prince and he would absolutely have sent you all that money you’d inherited from a relative you’d never heard of, if you hadn’t been too cheap to send him that few thousand dollars he needed so he could handle the paperwork for you.

You’re so ungrateful. Ungrateful I say!!!

?

 

 

What a startling coincidence! My dh also has a distant relative who is a Nigerian prince! He told us there is quite a lot of money bound up in late FIL’s oversees account. 

 

  • Like 2
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, LucyStoner said:

 

Yes, this is exactly what I hate.  Most won't make money.  Many will lose money.  The requirement to spend or commit their own money to buy in, the fact that the products are overpriced and nothing special, the need to then try to turn all their friends and family into customers or recruits in order to make their investment pay out - yuck.  The pyramid only works because the bottom layer is the largest, and the mathematical necessity that most people who start will not move up.  Why don't people understand this !!!???   The company has to keep cycling new people through the bottom only for most of them to bear a cost of money, time, and relationships that won't end up giving any benefit to the person, just the company.  

I think there are maybe some companies that are less of a pyramid, that have a commission structure that puts less benefit on the recruiting side and more on the product sales side.  I know of someone who has sold for one company for 20 years and doesn't appear try to recruit anyone.  I'm guessing she is with one of these companies.  Or maybe she just made up her mind when she started that she was only going to sell, not recruit.  When we lived across the street from her family, she was doing a party in her own home twice a month - handing out cards all over town, chatting up people everywhere she went and having them come to her home for free snacks, wine and a spiel.  We went once.  Her husband and kids mostly stayed in the basement during her parties.  She sends out automated emails once a week.  We moved away over ten years ago and I'm still getting her regular emails.  

When our kids were little and I was taking them to playgrounds, I had so many instances of moms I didn't know striking up a conversation (nice) and then putting on a push for me to look at their product samples and come to a party or book one (yucky).  I wish they would have just enjoyed their time at the park with their kids, and maybe a nice conversation, not ruined by a sales pitch.  That is another type of cost they take on. 

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...