Aug SAT was a completely recycled test

[8filltheheart]

This is so inexcusable. CB recycled a complete test given in Asia in 2017 to US test takers in Aug.  The test had been 100% available online through sites like Reddit. 

Considering how much $$ CB charges and how much control they have over college admissions, colleges and students should be outraged at the complete lack of validity in test results. CB is a repeated offender in doing this. They need to stop creating their own tests and go back to having ETS creating their tests for them and making sure they have new tests vs recycling tests.

https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2018/08/27/reports-circulate-saturdays-sat-included-questions-available-asia

 

[dirty ethel rackham]

Wow.  I knew that they recycled other tests such as their lower level tests, but didn't know that they recycled their heavy hitters.  DD's high school had all kids take the PSAT10 in the spring of their sophomore year.  But, the test they used was almost identical to the practice PSAT that they had online to prep for the PSAT in the fall, which my daughter had already done.  The school was ripped off.  

[regentrude]

That is scandalous. 

[hepatica]

 I have already filed one discrimination complaint against the College Board with the DOJ this year. I had great help from my Senator's office.

The tweet in the article says it all:

Why do private companies, accountable to no one, have so much power over students' futures?

 

 

[Mbelle]

This is infuriating. 

[Kassia]

My dd took this test and prepped hard for it  I am so upset about the whole situation.

[JoJosMom]

This is infuriating. I am so fed up with the College Board.

[alewife]

I wonder how much longer David Coleman will be at the College Board.  First the June fiasco, and now this.  Unfortunately, the College Board continues to rake in the profit, while the kids are the ones who suffer.  

[frogger]

So many threads recently have made me wonder why there is no "Wow" emojii.

[Roadrunner]

So what happens? Are they going to annul the test? 

[Jann in TX]

This is so disheartening!

My middle daughter 'bombed' the SAT and as a result did not receive merit aide...She had 28 hours of DE with a 4.0 average -- so her freshman year of college was already completed!!!  Of course she was college ready-- AND she went on to graduate college with honors and now has a Masters.  We are almost finished paying for her undergrad.

My youngest is a Jr this year-- she will begin testing next spring.  I'm extremely uncomfortable now because her two top choice schools for her intended major rely on the SAT for merit aide.

 

[alewife]

28 minutes ago, Jann in TX said:

This is so disheartening!

My middle daughter 'bombed' the SAT and as a result did not receive merit aide...She had 28 hours of DE with a 4.0 average -- so her freshman year of college was already completed!!!  Of course she was college ready-- AND she went on to graduate college with honors and now has a Masters.  We are almost finished paying for her undergrad.

My youngest is a Jr this year-- she will begin testing next spring.  I'm extremely uncomfortable now because her two top choice schools for her intended major rely on the SAT for merit aide.

 

Would the colleges on your youngest's list also accept the ACT for merit aid?  Although the ACT also recycles tests and you have to worry about being accused of cheating if you have a score increase of 5 points or more....sigh...Too bad there are not more choices for our kids.

[Kassia]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

So what happens? Are they going to annul the test? 

 

Latest I've seen from CB:

https://www.facebook.com/thecollegeboard/photos/a.556047474410397/2269240529757741/?type=3&theater

[RootAnn]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

So what happens? Are they going to annul the test? 

They  might cancel some people's scores. Doubt they'll cancel the whole test. From the comments in the linked article, the fact that the CB was going to use a leaked test for August was widely-known fact in certain circles. Obviously, they shouldn't be using a previously administered test at all, but they also have a HUGE issue with exam security. How could so many people know which version of the test was going to be administered?

[Roadrunner]

10 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

How could so many people know which version of the test was going to be administered?

 

We don’t hang out in the “right” circles. ?

[regentrude]

50 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

We don’t hang out in the “right” circles. ?

Philosophical question: if you did hang in the "right" circles and did get a hold of the test beforehand and knew, would you actually give it to your kid who will be taking the test?

[Roadrunner]

2 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Philosophical question: if you did hang in the "right" circles and did get a hold of the test beforehand and knew, would you actually give it to your kid who will be taking the test?

 

No, but my kid tests well, so it’s easy for me to be on a high horse.

I have no doubt though that a lot of parents would and test security should be taken very, very seriously. Just look at the entire industry that mushroomed for writing entrance essays for kids. And the situation is even worse abroad. So I wouldn’t want a compromised test because it does seem to be completely unfair. 

 

 

[regentrude]

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

No, but my kid tests well, so it’s easy for me to be on a high horse.

I have no doubt though that a lot of parents would and test security should be taken very, very seriously. Just look at the entire industry that mushroomed for writing entrance essays for kids. And the situation is even worse abroad. So I wouldn’t want a compromised test because it does seem to be completely unfair. 

Oh, I completely believe that there are parents who would buy the damned test ahead of time if they could. I was thinking of the ethical implication of basically making a teen cheat and saddling them with that lifelong knowledge...

[Roadrunner]

34 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Oh, I completely believe that there are parents who would buy the damned test ahead of time if they could. I was thinking of the ethical implication of basically making a teen cheat and saddling them with that lifelong knowledge...

 

Just went searching for articles on SAT cheating and this popped up from The Atlantic. Crazy.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/03/how-sophisticated-test-scams-from-china-are-making-their-way-into-the-us/474474/

 

 

 

[regentrude]

14 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Just went searching for articles on SAT cheating and this popped up from The Atlantic. Crazy.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/03/how-sophisticated-test-scams-from-china-are-making-their-way-into-the-us/474474/

I am not surprised. It is well known that the TOEFL results of students from certain countries have very little correlation with their actual English abilities, so I expect cheating on the TOEFL is very common. 

At an event on academic dishonesty, a colleague told us that at her previous institution they had a case where a proxy comlpeted the entire degree program under a fake identity for a foreign student.

Edited August 27, 2018 by regentrude

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

Philosophical question: if you did hang in the "right" circles and did get a hold of the test beforehand and knew, would you actually give it to your kid who will be taking the test?

I'd probably take it to Twitter/Facebook and tweet at them about it unrelentingly until the test. And post it everywhere I could possibly think of... here, College Confidential, etc. Because it's already not a level playing field, but wow.

[Farrar]

9 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I am not surprised. It is well known that the TOEFL results of students from certain countries have very little correlation with their actual English abilities, so I expect cheating on the TOEFL is very common. 

At an event on academic dishonesty, a colleague told us that at her previous institution they had a case where a proxy comlpeted the entire degree program under a fake identity.

A friend in high school was required to take the TOEFL because she was applying as an international student. She was born abroad but had never lived anywhere but in the US since she was a toddler. She had taken honors classes all through school. She had killer SAT scores. IIRC, she did not do great on the TOEFL - she said because she'd never studied English as a foreign language. Oy. I guess the test hasn't improved since then...

[TCB]

10 minutes ago, Farrar said:

A friend in high school was required to take the TOEFL because she was applying as an international student. She was born abroad but had never lived anywhere but in the US since she was a toddler. She had taken honors classes all through school. She had killer SAT scores. IIRC, she did not do great on the TOEFL - she said because she'd never studied English as a foreign language. Oy. I guess the test hasn't improved since then...

How come she was applying as an international student if she had lived in the US since she was a toddler?

[Janeway]

It came out in the news today, probably came out a long time ago, that college board sells student data.

[Targhee]

17 minutes ago, Janeway said:

It came out in the news today, probably came out a long time ago, that college board sells student data.

Where’s the angry emoji when it’s really needed.

[Janeway]

It seems all we know for sure is some company is South Korea had a copy of the test and was selling it, but nothing for sure that it came from an actual administration of the test?

[Kassia]

51 minutes ago, Janeway said:

It came out in the news today, probably came out a long time ago, that college board sells student data.

 

Yes, that's been out for a long time.  They are ALL about the $$$

[Lucy the Valiant]

A quick Google search shows me that the entire test is STILL available *IN ENGLISH* to anyone with internet access?! 

Wow. Just . . . wow.

April 2018 test also there . . . YIKES, College Board.

(Editing to remove the link as I don't want to add traffic. I haven't trusted the College Board for a long time, but am shocked that it's THAT easy to find.)

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Lucy the Valiant

[Farrar]

3 hours ago, TCB said:

How come she was applying as an international student if she had lived in the US since she was a toddler?

Sometimes families live in the US for decades with their immigration status in process. Especially if you're coming from somewhere as a refugee or from a nation with political turmoil. So her whole family's immigration status was in flux for her whole childhood. (It's now fully resolved, they're all citizens.)

[Farrar]

43 minutes ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

A quick Google search shows me that the entire test is STILL available *IN ENGLISH* to anyone with internet access?! 

Wow. Just . . . wow.

April 2018 test also there . . . YIKES, College Board.

(Editing to remove the link as I don't want to add traffic. I haven't trusted the College Board for a long time, but am shocked that it's THAT easy to find.)

 

Honestly, while I don't condone cheating - I don't know how else you bring it to the CB's attention other than to share this stuff EVERYWHERE and put it in their faces. (In other words, I wouldn't remove the links, though I don't necessarily think you need them either...)

[Roadrunner]

20 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Sometimes families live in the US for decades with their immigration status in process. Especially if you're coming from somewhere as a refugee or from a nation with political turmoil. So her whole family's immigration status was in flux for her whole childhood. (It's now fully resolved, they're all citizens.)

 

Still strange because even on an F1 student visa you don’t have to take TOEFL if you already have an American diploma. So if you have an American high school diploma, they will exempt you, or if you are applying for grad school but have an American BA, you will get an exception. 

Just in case anybody is reading in this situation. ? 

[Farrar]

14 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

 

Still strange because even on an F1 student visa you don’t have to take TOEFL if you already have an American diploma. So if you have an American high school diploma, they will exempt you, or if you are applying for grad school but have an American BA, you will get an exception. 

Just in case anybody is reading in this situation. ? 

I think this may have been an old requirement. I know even then, she didn't have to apply that way for all schools.

[8filltheheart]

30 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Honestly, while I don't condone cheating - I don't know how else you bring it to the CB's attention other than to share this stuff EVERYWHERE and put it in their faces. (In other words, I wouldn't remove the links, though I don't necessarily think you need them either...)

They know. They knew. They don't care. It is all about profit and educational standards control. Since they started writing the questions in-house vs having questions created by ETS, there have been non-stop issues with recycling tests and leaks. But, it's ok bc they can influence curriculum selections across the country!!

[rdj2027]

Hm, I did not have to take the TOEFL because I took the SAT (it's been 25 years though).  On a side note, a friend of mine was from Great Britain with a Master's in English from Oxford.  He failed the TOEFL the first time around and barely passed the second time.

[Farrar]

Just now, 8FillTheHeart said:

They know. They knew. They don't care. It is all about profit and educational standards control. Since they started writing the questions in-house vs having questions created by ETS, there have been non-stop issues with recycling tests and leaks. But, it's ok bc they can influence curriculum selections across the country!!

I know... but once the "circles" are big enough, they're still more likely to do something. Of course, then other "circles" of people in the know arise.

I was explaining this scandal to dh, who was like, I have a friend who works at the CB and says it's a wonderful place to work with lots of great people. And I snorted. I was like, "I have a friend who's helping design the Death Star. She says her team is really nice and she's got a great boss."

[madteaparty]

I wish colleges would actually collude and take a stand. Akin to the selective high schools with the APs. Until then, they say jump and even the most out-of-the-box homeschooler asks how high. They are literally creating the market for this.

[CAJinBE]

I see this as a problem in the future for Americans trying to apply to international universities. Since we don't have national exams like other countries, they want to see SAT and AP scores from Americans. If these scores become meaningless, we will have a harder time getting into international universities. Why don't we hear about similar scandals for A-levels (the British exams)? I'm very glad we did the March SAT last year and don't think my dd will retake it since it is a high enough score for where she is looking at applying. At least it is high enough now, but who knows what will happen if the scores are skewed. 

[alewife]

11 hours ago, Janeway said:

It seems all we know for sure is some company is South Korea had a copy of the test and was selling it, but nothing for sure that it came from an actual administration of the test?

According to many reports, this exact exam was administered internationally last October, and students who paid an additional fee to the College Board were also provided with the answer key (although I only saw a couple of mentions of the Q&A being available, so this part may not be true)  

Yes, someone also made an illegal copy of the test during the last administration, but based on the issues the College Board has had for years with testing security internationally, this should surprise no one.  The bigger surprise is that the test wasn't leaked before the first administration.  I can't wrap my head around why the College Board, knowing that many internationals would be flying to the US to sit for this exam since it wasn't offered internationally, would administer the exact same exam that many of these international kids had already taken!  Even the honest kids had an unfair advantage.  

 The College Board should never recycle a test since every single test is discussed on Reddit as soon as some of the kids get out of the testing sites. While these kids don't have a copy of the test, they are able to remember the questions in enough detail to give someone an unfair advantage if  when the test is administered again at a later date.  Some of these kids even store their answer choices for the last section in their calculators and then post their answer choices on Reddit so they can compare their answers with each other.  

Last year, after my daughter got out from taking a subject test, she was not happy when she logged onto Reddit and saw that kids were already discussing the questions and answers to the test she had just taken.  This was eastern time, so the kids on the West Coast on Reddit at the time had an unfair advantage since they had yet to go into the testing site to take this exact same test.  

In the age of the internet, both the SAT and ACT need to modify their testing procedures.  Tests should not be recycled, and Subject Test exams should be administered across the country at the same time.  However, I don't see this happening until the colleges push back.  All it would take is for colleges to refuse to accept a test score from the August administration of the SAT.  Yes, it would be very unfair to the kids who took the August test, but nothing is going to change until the College Board takes a financial hit. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by alewife

[alewife]

Just curious if anyone knows how many of the SATs administered since March 2016 (the debut of the new SAT) have been recycled?  I read that the August SAT is not the first recycled exam.  Other exams administered in the US were administered again in the US at a later date.   I don't know how many times this has happened, though.

The College Board, in its apparent reckless haste to debut the new SAT, has adversely affected many kids:

First, they published inaccurate ACT/SAT Concordance Tables.  Since the colleges use these tables when determining merit aid thresholds, many kids did not receive the amount of merit aid they should have.  (The College Board released new tables last month, and many colleges have revised their merit tables for the 2019 high school graduates, but this doesn't help the 2017 and 2018 high school grads.)

Then in June, the College Board administered a test that was way too easy.  Many of these kids from the June test then spent the summer preparing for the recycled August test.  

What is it going to take for the College Board to be held accountable?  

(No wonder many of the college coaches were advising my kid to take the ACT.)

Edited August 28, 2018 by alewife

[8filltheheart]

The ACT is not removed from serious criticism.  The number of kids adversely affected by the ACT's right to revoke a score without cause has become a growing issue.  Kids who score high and then don't put effort into a school administered test b/c they don't need the score suddenly find their initial score revoked due to the discrepancy in scores.  Or students who take the test "cold" and then study and increase their score, the increased score is denied.  The ACT also has much tighter reading speed parameters so it is not a good fit for many test takers (and the ensuing results are meaningless in terms of college success or actual academic comparison amg peers.)

FWIW, I hate both tests and their control over admissions.  Jann's example is a perfect one.  I have a niece who was only admitted spring term bc of her scores (spring admission scores don't impact rankings b/c only fall scores have to be reported......so all of the schools that offer "freshman fall abroad" to certain students are really playing the system by offering admission to full pay students and avoiding the lower score "ranking penalty.' ) It has nothing to do with the expectation of college success.  It is all one big game.  (And like Jann's dd, my niece ended up graduating from college with a 4.0.  The SAT was a meaningless measure of her abilities.)

[hepatica]

Wasn't there a new lawsuit filed against the ACT just a week or so ago for flagging scores of students who took the test with accommodations? I expect as the ACT becomes more popular the scandals will increase there as well.

Edited August 28, 2018 by hepatica

[alewife]

9 minutes ago, hepatica said:

Wasn't there a new lawsuit filed against the ACT just a week or so ago for flagging scores of students who took the test with accommodations? I expect as the ACT becomes more popular the scandals with increase there as well.

Yes.  There are also major issues with the ACT - they also recycle tests and they can invalidate a score years after the student has taken the test.   At least with the ACT, they have a larger pool of tests to recycle from so the odds of the same student sitting for the exact same test are lower than with the SAT since the SAT only has a couple years worth of tests to choose from. 

The issue with the concordance tables was the main reason why coaches were recommending the ACT.  

ETA: Here is a link from College Confidential detailing the havoc the ACT folks have wreaked on innocent students.  The stories are heart-breaking.  These testing companies have all of the power.  It is ridiculous.

https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-act-tests-test-preparation/1987200-act-testing-wrongly-accusing-cheating-2017.html#latest

Edited August 28, 2018 by alewife

[RootAnn]

24 minutes ago, alewife said:

ETA: Here is a link from College Confidential detailing the havoc the ACT folks have wreaked on innocent students.  The stories are heart-breaking.  These testing companies have all of the power.  It is ridiculous.

https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-act-tests-test-preparation/1987200-act-testing-wrongly-accusing-cheating-2017.html#latest

There is a recent report on that above linked thread about ACT questioning a score from 15+ months before. (I have a kid who increased her score by that 5 pt threshold that ACT seems to say doesn't happen. The only reason I am not worried about this happening to my kid is that her SAT score is within the same range by the new concordance tables. Even if the ACT were to send us one of these letters, she'd be ok because of the equivalent SAT. Many others aren't as lucky either because they didn't take the SAT or their scores didn't line up like DD's do. It is ridiculous these testing companies can do this sort of thing!)

There is the new Classical Learning Test - but not many colleges accept it so far.

[alewife]

3 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

There is a recent report on that above linked thread about ACT questioning a score from 15+ months before. (I have a kid who increased her score by that 5 pt threshold that ACT seems to say doesn't happen. The only reason I am not worried about this happening to my kid is that her SAT score is within the same range by the new concordance tables. Even if the ACT were to send us one of these letters, she'd be ok because of the equivalent SAT. Many others aren't as lucky either because they didn't take the SAT or their scores didn't line up like DD's do. It is ridiculous these testing companies can do this sort of thing!)

There is the new Classical Learning Test - but not many colleges accept it so far.

There are reports in that ACT thread where students are trying to prove their innocence to the ACT by submitting all kinds of documentation - tutoring receipts, teacher testimonials, seating charts, etc.  Even kids who provided a corresponding SAT score that validated their ACT score were unable to convince the ACT folks that they hadn't cheated.  Innocent until proven guilty does not apply when dealing with the ACT or SAT. (The SAT does the same thing, but it has not received as much attention.)

[Targhee]

All this talk about score increases causing suspicion, while definitely an issue, only makes the nature of this recent recycled test more aggravating: if you had an unfairly high score because of access to the recycled test *and it’s your first time* sitting the SAT, with no previous score, no one can objectively question your score! 

[Targhee]

2 hours ago, alewife said:

Yes.  There are also major issues with the ACT - they also recycle tests and they can invalidate a score years after the student has taken the test.   At least with the ACT, they have a larger pool of tests to recycle from so the odds of the same student sitting for the exact same test are lower than with the SAT since the SAT only has a couple years worth of tests to choose from. 

The issue with the concordance tables was the main reason why coaches were recommending the ACT.  

ETA: Here is a link from College Confidential detailing the havoc the ACT folks have wreaked on innocent students.  The stories are heart-breaking.  These testing companies have all of the power.  It is ridiculous.

https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-act-tests-test-preparation/1987200-act-testing-wrongly-accusing-cheating-2017.html#latest

These accounts are so frustrating!

Edited August 28, 2018 by Targhee

[RootAnn]

1 hour ago, alewife said:

There are reports in that ACT thread where students are trying to prove their innocence to the ACT by submitting all kinds of documentation - tutoring receipts, teacher testimonials, seating charts, etc.  Even kids who provided a corresponding SAT score that validated their ACT score were unable to convince the ACT folks that they hadn't cheated.  Innocent until proven guilty does not apply when dealing with the ACT or SAT. (The SAT does the same thing, but it has not received as much attention.)

Yes, absolutely agree with what you are saying. What I was trying to say was that if you have an equivalent SAT score, you don't need the ACT score & the ACT can go pound sand (as my DH would write it, #sand). Most scholarships list both an ACT & a SAT score. However, there are some issues with schools which will take either an ACT or a SAT + Subject Test Scores.

[Arcadia]

 

19 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

 

We don’t hang out in the “right” circles. ?

 

18 hours ago, regentrude said:

Philosophical question: if you did hang in the "right" circles and did get a hold of the test beforehand and knew, would you actually give it to your kid who will be taking the test?

 

Roadrunner, 

This reddit link explains the China connection but not the Korea connection https://www.reddit.com/r/Sat/comments/9adixd/the_test_today_is_literally_right_on_my_chinese/

regentrude,

It depends on whether I knew that exact test would be what my kid would be taking. People in China who went to test prep centers received past year questions that were compiled by the centers. The centers do not tell you which practice tests are wholesale pirated versions and which are modified. Most test prep centers aren’t strict so people would lend others their kids test prep materials once their kids are done. For example, a friend has an only child and would happily give away all her test prep materials once her senior is done with tests. 

Half Price Bookstores here sell the Korean and Chinese versions of SAT prep books for the general SAT and the subject tests. 

Since both my kids would be retaking the SAT in high school, I would change their test date and pay the change fees if I knew the entire test is a recycled test because of the anxiety factor of waiting for test results due to this fiasco. My kids would have been annoyed too if they knew that the test they took is a totally recycled test either before or after the test through the gossip vine. My friend is so worried now because her 12th grade daughter took this August SAT and it was her daughter’s second attempt. Her daughter picked the August test date so that results are out in time for the UC (California) applications deadline of Nov 30. 

 

8FillTheHeart,

My friend’s daughter took the August SAT to improve her score for applying to UCLA. Her first SAT score was greater than 1500. My friend is obviously worried. 

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Arcadia

[Roadrunner]

I think the point here is College Board’s incompetence. People will always try to game the system when their children are concerned. It’s those who make a fat living out of developing those tests that need to do better. They know that test security is the issue especially abroad, so what were they thinking?

And as somebody mentioned above, their extremely easy test that got administered on the previous date was a disaster of equal proportions for different reasons.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I really struggle to come up with any valid reason to recycle a test on a wholesale level.  I'd like to see a lot more outcry about this and questions about the validity of the test results on the whole.  

I can understand why some questions might get recycled, or seem to be recycled.  For example there are only so many ways of asking a right triangle question using a 3-4-5 special triangle before you will pretty much be using a previous question (or introducing a different level of difficulty).  

Readings should not be reused.  

Sentences for grammar questions should be new, although they might follow a certain formula in order to have a similar level of difficulty.

But again I just don't understand why the tests aren't completely unique.