Has anyone used Foundation in Sounds?

[mickeysfavorite]

Has anyone here used or previewed Foundations in Sounds recommended by Barton? If so how does it compare to Lips? It looks easier to use but costs $$$. TIA!

[PeterPan]

With FIS you get scripting and lose flexibility and the most powerful, speech therapy driven portions of LIPS. If you have a straight dyslexic with no complicating factors, it's probably adequate. If you like working with more flexible tools vs. scripted lessons or have a dc with more complex issues (speech issues, etc.) you will prefer LIPS. 

When we've suggested negative things about FIS in the past, people have come on and said oh no don't say that. I haven't seen it. However the makers of FIS are not putting forth their qualifications and they're not presenting a flexible tool for therapists. It's a scripted tool for people who want open and go, and it's going to fit best students who fit the parameters they intended. My ds has verbal apraxia (a complex motor planning of speech problem) on top of his SLDs, and I can't imagine using a pre-scripted tool with him. Even Barton's suggestions for how to use LIPS were not adequate, because his situation was unusual. I ended up weave LIPS into Barton 1 and 2 and using his specialized speech therapy as well. FIS wouldn't have given me the tools to do any of that. I needed LIPS.

Use what makes you comfortable and gets the job done. There's no reason to think FIS is incomplete for the typical dyslexic student. If the scripting is valuable to you and helps you get it done, use it! You should have good resale value.

[mickeysfavorite]

14 hours ago, PeterPan said:

If you have a straight dyslexic with no complicating factors, it's probably adequate. If you like working with more flexible tools vs. scripted lessons or have a dc with more complex issues (speech issues, etc.) you will prefer LIPS. 

I had wondered about that. The student I am tutoring does have speech issues and dyslexia. I think I am going to look into LiPS. Do you have to be trained in LiPS or is it something that I could figure out?

[PeterPan]

26 minutes ago, mickeysfavorite said:

I had wondered about that. The student I am tutoring does have speech issues and dyslexia. I think I am going to look into LiPS. Do you have to be trained in LiPS or is it something that I could figure out?

Yes, you're going to find LIPS a very flexible tool. I think Gander may sell a video for it, but it's more about taking the time to read the manual and wrap your brain around it. At the very least you'll want the manual and the face magnets. 

If it's useful to you, I've posted a file in the past showing how I integrated Barton 1 and 2 and LIPS and my ds' speech therapy (PROMPT). He has moderate to severe apraxia, so we never would have gotten as far without that integration of LIPS to give that extra understanding. Well my dropbox login isn't working, and I'm annoyed. I can try again later. It wasn't so fancy though. Basically I did everything LIPS said and blended it into the sequence of Barton 1 and 2. So we did every step of Barton completely in every position, every possible way, using not only the Barton tiles but also LIPS. It was sort of rocket science and not at the same time.

I would say roll with your gut and your assessment of what your dc needs. Having really powerful, flexible tools helps. If the scripting of FIS would help, that's good too! For my student, it was less an issue of how I said it and more an issue of how well we could break each expectation into teeny tiny steps that he could FEEL and see. As we did that, it improved and things clicked.

Btw, I don't know if you have ASD issues going on as well, but those can complicate things by creating a top-down language learning style, instead of learning parts to whole. So there are things we did in Barton that he could sorta do that all of a sudden CLICKED, like visibly clicked, three years later when we started doing detailed language work. Now my ds gets rhyming, really gets it, whereas before it was just sort of mechanical. But he has significant language issues due to his autism. He had memorized the whole of language and wasn't processing the parts. When we began working on the parts (word level), his brain started noticing that words have parts, and boom now he gets rhyming, etc. Go figure. 

If you need that file, holler. I would say just order something, launch in, try. You'll have good resale value, so your net cost on LIPS will just be the shipping. You might find it used on ebay, because it shows up every so often. Sometimes you just have to try things, see what happens, and roll with it.

[mickeysfavorite]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

I don't know if you have ASD issues going on as well, but those can complicate things by creating a top-down language learning style, instead of learning parts to whole.

This is not an issue that I am aware of. In school they are still teaching whole language in this area?, I see a lot of memorization with this guy. When he has break down a CVC word he struggles to sound it out, yet he can read it on a page with other words, I think he has just memorized the shape. He has speech issues so sounding out words can be really difficult for him depending on the sound he is trying to make. He can blend two sounds but can't three sounds. I have tried everything but he just can't. He did not pass section C of the Barton test. I think we need to go back to phonemic awareness skills. I haven't used barton with him but I am doing OG with basic letter skill (somedays he knows them somedays he doesn't). I used barton with my 2 kiddos a long time ago and I think he could benefit from the intensity of barton. 

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

f you need that file, holler.

I would love to get that file if you could!? Thanks PeterPan!!

[PeterPan]

Yup, failing part C needs to go back. LIPS is strong. How is his speech going? Is he getting intervention? Is there an explanation? I can tell you that our SLPs told me *not* to expect him to hear and sound out and decode with any sound that he could not make. So that sounds crazy, but we entirely skipped certain letters/phonograms when we went through.

Now sometimes working on the phonological processing can be awesome for speech! It can help them hear more and get more out of their speech therapy. I also really like Attention Good Listeners. And there's a really cute owls sorting game https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Resources-Vowel-Owls-Sorting/dp/B00H3QO7WQ

So what you may need to do is inventory his speech, go through everything he can say accurately, focus on THAT, then go back to those other sounds later. You can work in conjunction with his SLP too. Some sounds might be formative, some sounds independent with a prompt, etc. She can let you know which you might want to wait on.