What Would You Do? - Update

[knitgrl]

We are in NY. On the last day possible, I dropped off dd's IHIP to the school district. After some waiting around, a woman came out, (who I assume is the Assistant Superintendent of Instruction), to inform me that since dd is in 4th grade this year, she will HAVE to have a standardized test, not given by me. I am horrible in these sorts of situations, because I do not think quickly on my feet, so she probably interpreted the face I probably made as one of somebody who had never heard of this requirement. However, my understanding of hs law in NY is that standardized tests must be taken every other year between 4th and 8th grade, and that it is possible to put this off until 5th grade.

I gave dd the PASS test this past spring, just for practice. She excelled at the Language and Reading sections, and got about 75% on the math, because she is very slow, and we are a bit behind, so there were topics we hadn't covered yet. So far, dealing with the district has been not a big deal. You turn in your papers, and they leave you alone. However, they are the ultimate bureaucrats. Homeschool kids used to be able to take swim lessons at the school pool with the Red Cross, but since the change in Superintendent about 7 years ago, that is no longer the case. They now say that swim lessons are part of the athletic program, so hs'ers can't, plus there are insurance issues. An aunt used to teach in this school system, and she says that they have implemented Common Core in the most draconian fashion imaginable--every teacher has to be on the same exact page of a text every day. I only mention this to illustrate the mindset of the school system.

In this situation, do I just acquiesce and have dd take the test this spring, or try to insist on waiting until 5th grade? I thought PASS was acceptable in NY, but the way she phrased it, I am kind of wondering, since I am the one who administrates it.

ADDED 4-17-19 -- Well, it's time for the 3rd quarter report, and I've decided that I am going to go ahead with what we've always done and state that we will do a written narrative for the end of the year. Wish me luck!

Edited April 18, 2019 by knitgrl
Update

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

My question is:  Why do you want to avoid the exam this year and put it off to next year?  I absolutely understand everything that is WRONG with standardized testing, I get that.  But if you know it must be done, what are your main reasons for putting it off?  It sounds like she'll do just fine.  

Where we live, my kids also have standardized testing every 2 years starting in American equivalent 4th grade.  I don't *like* them needing to take the tests, I think it's stupid and a waste of time, but they don't mind and I don't care enough to try to destroy the entire system and put something new in its place.  

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you plan on complying anyway, why not just comply this year and be done with it?  

[knitgrl]

23 minutes ago, Monica_in_Switzerland said:

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you plan on complying anyway, why not just comply this year and be done with it?  

I wasn't mentally prepared for it. I have been planning to do it in 5th grade for years now. I wanted to let her have another practice run, because marking the wrong bubbles for the wrong question, or skipping a row of bubbles was an issue.

[Lori D.]

NY homeschooling regulations are tricky and different than most other states, so it's best if you can take to homeschoolers in your local area to get truthful, factual answers. (I have no idea how reliable this website info is, but it might get you started: Homeschool NYC: "FAQ about Testing")

With that as a preface, my thoughts pretty much align with Monica's response above -- not fun or your choice, but just do it and get it done with. Pull that bandaid off fast rather than dread it for another year, lol.

And I'd just add, why not add test prep to your homeschooling this year -- just have DD spend 10 min. 1-2x/week practicing transferring her answers to the test booklet and bubbling in answers. Use a test prep booklet and go over a page or 2 each time you do a practice so that DD can learn test taking tips and strategies. Think of it as helpful prep for future ACT/SAT testing required in high school for college admissions, or practice in timed testing now so that if your DD ends up doing AP or CLEP testing in high school to earn college credit, that it will be very familiar and not at all stressful.

Yes, totally agree with you that it is a "pain" to have to spend time on standardized tests, and test prep. But at 4th grade, I can't imagine that your DD's school is so long right now that adding 10-20 minutes a week for test prep will be the straw that breaks the schedule. (:P If you testing is not until late spring, you could even wait until January to add test prep to your schedule.

BEST of luck, whatever you decide. : ) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[freesia]

NY here. 

You do not have to test until fifth grade. She is wrong. You may write or have a narrative written this year. 

Remember her composite just has to be above 33%. 

[Finlandia]

Does the standardized test have any effect on her education? (Not being snarky, genuine question) After reading “Rethinking School” my understanding is that standardized tests are mostly used to evaluate schools rather than individual students, so they have very little value for homeschool students. Since you have to take them for your state, I wouldn’t make too much of a fuss about the timing of it. I’d just have her take them whenever the state says to, then just keep doing what we’ve been doing. In other words, I wouldn’t let the test change anything for me. You don’t even need to look at the results. Just file them away and look at them in 5 or 10 years ? 

[knitgrl]

11 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

NY homeschooling regulations are tricky and different than most other states, so it's best if you can take to homeschoolers in your local area to get truthful, factual answers. (I have no idea how reliable this website info is, but it might get you started: Homeschool NYC: "FAQ about Testing")

With that as a preface, my thoughts pretty much align with Monica's response above -- not fun or your choice, but just do it and get it done with. Pull that bandaid off fast rather than dread it for another year, lol.

And I'd just add, why not add test prep to your homeschooling this year -- just have DD spend 10 min. 1-2x/week practicing transferring her answers to the test booklet and bubbling in answers. Use a test prep booklet and go over a page or 2 each time you do a practice so that DD can learn test taking tips and strategies. Think of it as helpful prep for future ACT/SAT testing required in high school for college admissions, or practice in timed testing now so that if your DD ends up doing AP or CLEP testing in high school to earn college credit, that it will be very familiar and not at all stressful.

Yes, totally agree with you that it is a "pain" to have to spend time on standardized tests, and test prep. But at 4th grade, I can't imagine that your DD's school is so long right now that adding 10-20 minutes a week for test prep will be the straw that breaks the schedule. (:P If you testing is not until late spring, you could even wait until January to add test prep to your schedule.

BEST of luck, whatever you decide. : ) Warmest regards, Lori D.

Thank you for the suggestions! I had no idea there was test prep available for kids not in high school. The things you learn here....

[Lori D.]

3 minutes ago, knitgrl said:

Thank you for the suggestions! I had no idea there was test prep available for kids not in high school. The things you learn here....

Yes, I used Scoring High for the Iowa Basic for both our DSs for the first 2 years that they did testing. Standardized testing is NOT required in my state, but I wanted them to get comfortable with the idea, plus I didn't mind getting the confirmation of how we were doing, or seeing if I'd forgotten anything so where we might have had a gap. I didn't bother with testing until 4th grade for DS#1, and 5th grade for DS#2 -- his math calculation speed was very slow, so he was upset he didn't finish; but in 6th grade he did finish that section and was very happy. (:D

Scoring High has test prep booklets for the gr. 1-8 Terra Nova (the CAT and the CTBS), Stanford Achievement Test (SAT), and Iowa Test of Basic Skills (ITBS). Even if none of those are the exact test you'll be doing, the test tips are still helpful, as is the bubble-filling practice. ; )

[knitgrl]

12 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Yes, I used Scoring High for the Iowa Basic for both our DSs for the first 2 years that they did testing. Standardized testing is NOT required in my state, but I wanted them to get comfortable with the idea, plus I didn't mind getting the confirmation of how we were doing, or seeing if I'd forgotten anything so where we might have had a gap. I didn't bother with testing until 4th grade for DS#1, and 5th grade for DS#2 -- his math calculation speed was very slow, so he was upset he didn't finish; but in 6th grade he did finish that section and was very happy. (:D

Scoring High has test prep booklets for the gr. 1-8 Terra Nova (the CAT and the CTBS), Stanford Achievement Test (SAT), and Iowa Test of Basic Skills (ITBS). Even if none of those are the exact test you'll be doing, the test tips are still helpful, as is the bubble-filling practice. ; )

A timed test would be awful for dd. The PASS instructions said each section should take about 1.5 hours. She finished the language and reading sections in an hour or less. Math took about 3 hours total. I have no idea how to help with calculations. She does a lot of other things slowly. She's smart, she understands the mathematical concepts, but it takes forever for her to calculate.

[knitgrl]

47 minutes ago, freesia said:

NY here. 

You do not have to test until fifth grade. She is wrong. You may write or have a narrative written this year. 

Remember her composite just has to be above 33%. 

This is the other reason I posted this question -- there is a part of me that  says, "They are wrong, and they should be told and know they are wrong!" But since I will most likely have to deal with the school system for another 13 years or so, it would probably not be the wisest course of action.

[Lori D.]

8 minutes ago, knitgrl said:

A timed test would be awful for dd. The PASS instructions said each section should take about 1.5 hours. She finished the language and reading sections in an hour or less. Math took about 3 hours total. I have no idea how to help with calculations. She does a lot of other things slowly. She's smart, she understands the mathematical concepts, but it takes forever for her to calculate.

DS#2 really melted down with timed things as well. Which was one (of several) reasons why we waited until 5th grade for him to do his first standardized testing as part of our homeschool group. And, it was timed. I just repeatedly reassured him before/during/after the days of testing that this was for ME to see what I might have missed in teaching them, and that the test included math topics below, at, and above his math level, so there was NO WORRIES about whether or not he finished or not -- because it's NOT the kind of test that is about finishing or not, or about "judging" him.

BEST of luck, whatever you decide about testing! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Lori D.

[freesia]

1 hour ago, knitgrl said:

This is the other reason I posted this question -- there is a part of me that  says, "They are wrong, and they should be told and know they are wrong!" But since I will most likely have to deal with the school system for another 13 years or so, it would probably not be the wisest course of action.

Actually, it is better all around for all homeschoolers to not let them change the law. It sets precedence. Here is what I suggest.  On your third quarterly inform them that you will be submitting a narrative this year. Site where it says that in the law. ( it may also say it in the FAQs.  In fact I'm pretty sure it does). If they question you--which they probably won't, say calmly, "where in the law do you see that it says that I must do a standardized test?  Can you tell me where it says that?"  They won't be able you. show you that.  

[moonflower]

I would also be torn between wanting to just not make waves and wanting to hold them to the actual standard instead of the one they've made up (or, more generously, the one they've misunderstood).

 

 

[maize]

17 hours ago, knitgrl said:

 

I gave dd the PASS test this past spring, just for practice. She excelled at the Language and Reading sections, and got about 75% on the math, because she is very slow, and we are a bit behind, so there were topics we hadn't covered yet.

If you mean she scored in the 75th percentile (standardized test scores are usually reported as percentiles) that is actually a great score--top quartile. It means she performed better than 3 out if 4 students taking the test.

[knitgrl]

On 8/19/2018 at 7:02 PM, freesia said:

Actually, it is better all around for all homeschoolers to not let them change the law. It sets precedence. Here is what I suggest.  On your third quarterly inform them that you will be submitting a narrative this year. Site where it says that in the law. ( it may also say it in the FAQs.  In fact I'm pretty sure it does). If they question you--which they probably won't, say calmly, "where in the law do you see that it says that I must do a standardized test?  Can you tell me where it says that?"  They won't be able you. show you that.  

I have spent most of the summer as a reluctant activist on a local issue. If I start sassing the school district, people are going to start calling me a trouble-maker. ?

[freesia]

1 hour ago, knitgrl said:

I have spent most of the summer as a reluctant activist on a local issue. If I start sassing the school district, people are going to start calling me a trouble-maker. ?

Oh, ok. I have done what I suggested a couple of times and no one saw it as sass. I think it is a reasonable question. But, everything is seen in context. Maybe someone local could help you find a way to ask. You shouldn't have to do something against the law just bc you might be seen as a troublemaker. The school system has to follow the law, too. When I wrote mine that I wasn't sending in something they asked for bc it wasn't required by NY law nothing bad ever happened. Years later I got my letter of equivence and everything. I think they often don't know the law and pointing it out makes them double check.   Another thing I've done is send a copy of the law/FAQs with the part highlighted. Honestly, pointing out the law is not sass even if someone in authority implies it. 

 

[knitgrl]

So we are digging in our heels on this. Our school district is all about following the rules. They can follow the rules when it comes to homeschoolers, too.

[knitgrl]

We live in western NY, about ten hours away. Despite what the rest of the country thinks, there is more to NY than NYC. : - )