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NYU School of Medicine is now tuition free for all

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Unbelievable. So how does this work? Who are they affiliated with? Is he really saying this is all possible with donations alone?

Edited by Liz CA
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I hope this tremendously boosts their applications, and therefore ranking, forcing other schools to do something similar.  So many of my friends that went into medicine dreamed of being primary care doctors, but when facing $250-300K of debt chose a specialty instead.

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5 hours ago, Katy said:

I hope this tremendously boosts their applications, and therefore ranking, forcing other schools to do something similar.  So many of my friends that went into medicine dreamed of being primary care doctors, but when facing $250-300K of debt chose a specialty instead.

 

I wonder, given that the admission criteria will likely be very stringent, if an MD from NYU will be the new Harvard because in order to get admitted you had to have top notch qualifications.

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27 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

 

I wonder, given that the admission criteria will likely be very stringent, if an MD from NYU will be the new Harvard because in order to get admitted you had to have top notch qualifications.

The information I read on this is that the free tuition is offered regardless of financial need or academic performance. They will still need to pay for room, board and books. They are also starting it effective this year for everyone who is enrolled, including the returning students. This is great news for some of the lower paid specialties as well as those who serve in rural, lower paying areas.

NYU is already a top ranked medical school - #3 in research behind Harvard & Johns Hopkins. There's more that goes into the rankings than the qualifications of the students. This sure will be interesting to watch, though. Does free tuition make for better physicians? If so, how? I wonder what the current differentiators are between the admitted students and the other applicants? I imagine that all medical schools get top notch applicants as far as academics go, so what makes one applicant better than another?

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18 hours ago, Liz CA said:

Unbelievable. So how does this work? Who are they affiliated with? Is he really saying this is all possible with donations alone?

It is New York University - they have all the accreditation that other universities have and their hospitals are Joint Commission accredited, like all other hospitals. They have three main hospitals (Lagone, Bellevue and Rusk Institute) and also provide the staff and medical student training at the VA hospital in Manhattan.

It's my understanding from the announcement video that donors & endowments are making this possible. They currently have 442 students in the Medical School, including the incoming class.

ETA: Hospitals must be accredited by the Joint Commission in order to bill Medicare and Medicaid. It's a requirement of participation. If a hospital were to lose their accreditation, they would become financially insolvent and would quite literally have to close their doors. Accreditation is a rigorous process, taken very seriously by all involved.

Edited by TechWife
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6 hours ago, Katy said:

I hope this tremendously boosts their applications, and therefore ranking, forcing other schools to do something similar.  So many of my friends that went into medicine dreamed of being primary care doctors, but when facing $250-300K of debt chose a specialty instead.

 

I recently had a convo with my ds's doctor and he was telling me that he is actively discouraging his daughter from pursuing an MD. He cited the expense plus the long delay before they start earning an income. If she goes into medicine, he wants her to pursue something like PT/OT or nursing so she can start her earning career earlier, with less debt.

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6 hours ago, Katy said:

I hope this tremendously boosts their applications, and therefore ranking, forcing other schools to do something similar.  So many of my friends that went into medicine dreamed of being primary care doctors, but when facing $250-300K of debt chose a specialty instead.

One of the most interesting ideas I’ve heard to reverse this trend is to make medical school free, but charge for residencies. So the longer, more specialized but more lucrative specialties would cost more and the shorter family practice ones would cost the least.

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29 minutes ago, TechWife said:

The information I read on this is that the free tuition is offered regardless of financial need or academic performance. They will still need to pay for room, board and books. They are also starting it effective this year for everyone who is enrolled, including the returning students. This is great news for some of the lower paid specialties as well as those who serve in rural, lower paying areas.

NYU is already a top ranked medical school - #3 in research behind Harvard & Johns Hopkins. There's more that goes into the rankings than the qualifications of the students. This sure will be interesting to watch, though. Does free tuition make for better physicians? If so, how? I wonder what the current differentiators are between the admitted students and the other applicants? I imagine that all medical schools get top notch applicants as far as academics go, so what makes one applicant better than another?

Thousands and thousand of qualified students already do not get into even one medical school every year, about 60% of applicants. The competition is already fierce, especially for those from states that don’t have a state medical school (or an agreement with another state) or have very few state spots relative to population or take lots of out of state students. Unfortunately, our state medical school is usually the most expensive public one in the country with tuition similar to private schools like NYU. And they are known for taking lots of out of state applicants and charge them only a few thousand dollars more per year in tuition. Plus, it’s in a high COL city. So there is basically no low cost option for students here, unless they are lucky enough to get admitted and get lots of non-loan aid somewhere.

 

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I think it's about time. Far too many schools, with massive endowments, claim to provide a public good and shield their investments from taxes, while charging students outrageous tuition and fees, both graduate and undergraduate alike. Maybe university officials are starting to listen to the unhappiness about the cost of higher-level education, particularly in health-related fields. If we want to lower medical expenses, we need to start by lowering the cost of a medical education. May more schools follow NYU's lead.

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1 hour ago, TechWife said:

NYU is already a top ranked medical school - #3 in research behind Harvard & Johns Hopkins. There's more that goes into the rankings than the qualifications of the students. This sure will be interesting to watch, though. Does free tuition make for better physicians? If so, how? I wonder what the current differentiators are between the admitted students and the other applicants? I imagine that all medical schools get top notch applicants as far as academics go, so what makes one applicant better than another?

 

This is what I was wondering as well. IOW how crazy will it get? Better docs because those who have a real calling / talent / genuine interest in healing will get a chance? Could be. And I am not saying every other doctor does not have a genuine interest but I also know a few who freely admitted it was the prestige of the white coat and the income that was a factor in their decision making process. However, I do think that the prestige around an MD is somewhat waning.

Edited by Liz CA

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4 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

 

This is what I was wondering as well. IOW how crazy will it get? Better docs because those who have a real calling / talent / genuine interest in healing will get a chance? Could be. And I am not saying every other doctor does not have a genuine interest but I also know a few who freely admitted it was the prestige of the white coat and the income that was a factor in their decision making process. However, I do think that the prestige around an MD is somewhat waning.

Unfortunately, I think it’s almost impossible to separate the two groups during the admissions process. People know full well what an admission committee wants to see/hear and with so many applicants for every spot, decisions have to be made relatively quickly. It’s ridiculous that we even have any doctor shortages in this country when we have so many qualified, interested students and so much wealth. Internationally, we actually rank quite low on training our own citizens relative to the number of doctors needed. We rely quite a bit on bringing in doctors from other countries for residencies, and they usually have far less debt than US citizens. 

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1 hour ago, TechWife said:

ETA: Hospitals must be accredited by the Joint Commission in order to bill Medicare and Medicaid. It's a requirement of participation. If a hospital were to lose their accreditation, they would become financially insolvent and would quite literally have to close their doors. Accreditation is a rigorous process, taken very seriously by all involved.

 

In the past JCAHO could grant Medicare certification but Medicaid was more complex in some states. That changed in 2010 with MIPPA. CMS is now the Medicare authority. Medicaid is still regulated largely at the state level and several states do not recognize JCAHO for state facility licensure. 

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5 hours ago, TechWife said:

The information I read on this is that the free tuition is offered regardless of financial need or academic performance. They will still need to pay for room, board and books. They are also starting it effective this year for everyone who is enrolled, including the returning students. This is great news for some of the lower paid specialties as well as those who serve in rural, lower paying areas.

NYU is already a top ranked medical school - #3 in research behind Harvard & Johns Hopkins. There's more that goes into the rankings than the qualifications of the students. This sure will be interesting to watch, though. Does free tuition make for better physicians? If so, how? I wonder what the current differentiators are between the admitted students and the other applicants? I imagine that all medical schools get top notch applicants as far as academics go, so what makes one applicant better than another?

 

A graduate degree in a biology sub field, undergraduate research experience, stellar test scores, and fluency in a foreign language.  If a high school kid has enough AP credits to spend a semester abroad to demonstrate fluency, even better.  The research experience is often more widely available in state university honors programs than it is in top ranked universities. I've known someone given full rides at a couple top medical schools that came from a state school honors program and someone from MIT who couldn't get into the same programs. Both had 4.0 GPA's and perfect test scores.  The obvious difference was a couple years of research experience and study abroad. I wouldn't have insight into written recommendations though.

5 hours ago, sassenach said:

I recently had a convo with my ds's doctor and he was telling me that he is actively discouraging his daughter from pursuing an MD. He cited the expense plus the long delay before they start earning an income. If she goes into medicine, he wants her to pursue something like PT/OT or nursing so she can start her earning career earlier, with less debt.

 

This is why I went into nursing. I was more interested in primary care and a couple friends of the family that were doctors warned me that I would make basically the same income and have less debt if I chose nurse practitioner instead. Plus, if I worked while in school hospitals will pay for nursing school through grad school, at least in the area I was in.  I just had to pay for an advanced CNA class so I could learn the stuff hospital techs know - sterilizing surgical equipment, draining ports, less technical ultrasounds, etc... I can't remember what else was involved. Basically everything RN's do except IV's and meds, at least in the state I was in.  I ended up getting married and having kids before I made it to grad school, but if you're in a state where nurse practitioners can practice independently, they really might make the same sort of income minus the debt as a primary care practitioner.  Also, it helped that I liked nurse practitioners better than most physicians. All that time at bedside tends to make them better at reading people and less pompous than physicians.

5 hours ago, Frances said:

One of the most interesting ideas I’ve heard to reverse this trend is to make medical school free, but charge for residencies. So the longer, more specialized but more lucrative specialties would cost more and the shorter family practice ones would cost the least.

 

Interesting idea, but I don't know how that would be legal, as residencies are considered labor. At that point they are paid, and when you take into account the hours they work, they are already paid less than minimum wage.

5 hours ago, Frances said:

Thousands and thousand of qualified students already do not get into even one medical school every year, about 60% of applicants. The competition is already fierce, especially for those from states that don’t have a state medical school (or an agreement with another state) or have very few state spots relative to population or take lots of out of state students. Unfortunately, our state medical school is usually the most expensive public one in the country with tuition similar to private schools like NYU. And they are known for taking lots of out of state applicants and charge them only a few thousand dollars more per year in tuition. Plus, it’s in a high COL city. So there is basically no low cost option for students here, unless they are lucky enough to get admitted and get lots of non-loan aid somewhere.

 

Yes, the lack of increasing spaces in medical schools has had a negative effect everywhere. Our population has gone way up, but the medical school slots has been stagnant. It's a problem, but convincing anyone to change it is also a problem.  I suspect it will require legislation to change, because there are significant forces to keep things the same.

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