Adult child with misplaced priorities

[Catwoman]

11 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Whaaaat? Seriously, things do happen and people go on to get degrees, get jobs and have normal lives. On the  scale of horrible no good days/ semesters failing or getting bad grades and having to re do a semester is barely a blip.  Most people aren't trying to get into Big important Schools......and ultimately college is a business and if you have the money for another semester they aren't going to refuse you because you had a semester that that you totally screwed up.  

This whole 'a good school would not consider you' is just sickening to me.  It is a business people.  They take your money and if you perform they give you a degree.  

All that said, I think the OP's dd made a mistake planning  to miss 2 weeks of school.  Missing one week is better but not ideal.....but is her decision. 

 

I’m not sure where you went to college, but colleges can and absolutely do refuse students who “had a semester that they totally screwed up.”  

You don’t seem to have a particularly realistic view about college admissions, and I’m not sure why you seem so angry about the reality that good schools have high standards, and I’m not just talking about “big, important schools,” whatever that means. 

[Scarlett]

14 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I’m not sure where you went to college, but colleges can and absolutely do refuse students who “had a semester that they totally screwed up.”  

You don’t seem to have a particularly realistic view about college admissions, and I’m not sure why you seem so angry about the reality that good schools have high standards, and I’m not just talking about “big, important schools,” whatever that means. 

Cat, I went to college no where.  And yet, in the 35 years since, I have observed that college is a business and seriously, refusals are not that common and people can recover from a screw up of a semester. Please note that I am not suggesting the wisest course is for this student is to intentionally  screw up a semester of college over her best friend having a baby. I am suggesting that college is a business and it can be accomplished in a number of ways. 

[Scarlett]

And furthermore I would say YOU do not  have a realistic view of college and I am absolutely not angry at all. 

Edited August 19, 2018 by Scarlett

[unsinkable]

25 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Whaaaat? Seriously, things do happen and people go on to get degrees, get jobs and have normal lives. On the  scale of horrible no good days/ semesters failing or getting bad grades and having to re do a semester is barely a blip.  Most people aren't trying to get into Big important Schools......and ultimately college is a business and if you have the money for another semester they aren't going to refuse you because you had a semester that that you totally screwed up.  

This whole 'a good school would not consider you' is just sickening to me.  It is a business people.  They take your money and if you perform they give you a degree.  

All that said, I think the OP's dd made a mistake planning  to miss 2 weeks of school.  Missing one week is better but not ideal.....but is her decision. 

 

Every college and university has rules about Academic Probation, Suspension and Dismissal. It has nothing to do with the quality or reputation or what have you. State Us and Jucos have these rules, too. And students or parents can't just pay money to get removed from academic probation or pay to get reinstated if they are dismissed. 

There is no doubt that much worse than failing a few classes or failing out of school does happen to people every day. 

We're trying to give the best advice to AVOID failing or dropping out or getting kicked out.  

 

 

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

 

Every college and university has rules about Academic Probation, Suspension and Dismissal. It has nothing to do with the quality or reputation or what have you. State Us and Jucos have these rules, too. And students or parents can't just pay money to get removed from academic probation or pay to get reinstated if they are dismissed. 

There is no doubt that much worse than failing a few classes or failing out of school does happen to people every day. 

We're trying to give the best advice to AVOID failing or dropping out or getting kicked out.  

 

 

Well, obviously.  Clearly. I mean read the warning on the box and all of that.  But in general, a failed semester is not the end of the freaking world.  

[Catwoman]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Cat, I went to college no where.  And yet, in the 35 years since, I have observed that college is a business and seriously, refusals are not that common and people can recover from a screw up of a semester. Please note that I am not suggesting the wisest course is for this student is to intentionally  screw up a semester of college over her best friend having a baby. I am suggesting that college is a business and it can be accomplished in a number of ways. 

 

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

And furthermore I would say YOU do not  have a realistic view of college and am absolutely not angry at all. 

 

Wow, Scarlett, I don’t know why you seem to want to make this a competition, but please be assured that I have significant experience with both universities and graduate schools, and I don’t mean this in a nasty way, but you really don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to college admissions and what it takes to remain a college student and eventually graduate.

College admissions are not for sale at accredited colleges and universities. Students have to earn their admission by meeting certain qualifications. If they mess up and fail classes, money isn’t going to buy passing grades. Money isn’t going to keep them from being put on academic probation or even being dismissed. 

I don’t know what kind of colleges you’re talking about, but even less selective colleges have standards. You seem to be implying that all colleges are in it for the money and that as long as a kid can afford it, he can attend any school he wants, and that’s simply not true at all. It’s not that easy to get accepted into college — if it was easy, why would kids need to apply to multiple schools?

[unsinkable]

7 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Well, obviously.  Clearly. I mean read the warning on the box and all of that.  But in general, a failed semester is not the end of the freaking world.  

 

Except your last post implied you can fail a semester and as long as you paid tuition, you can go back with no consequences. 

That isn't necessarily true, esp. if a student already has a low GPA.

you can keep saying you're not angry...but you sure sound angry.

[umsami]

I would praise your daughter for trying to be there for her friend--even if it doesn't work out.  That's the type of daughter I'd like to raise.  I hope and trust that the friend will also understand that she can't miss so many classes--especially as first babies are often late, and nobody knows when the new baby will come. 

Hoping that the friend's baby comes easily and is healthy.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

 

Wow, Scarlett, I don’t know why you seem to want to make this a competition, but please be assured that I have significant experience with both universities and graduate schools, and I don’t mean this in a nasty way, but you really don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to college admissions and what it takes to remain a college student and eventually graduate.

College admissions are not for sale at accredited colleges and universities. Students have to earn their admission by meeting certain qualifications. If they mess up and fail classes, money isn’t going to buy passing grades. Money isn’t going to keep them from being put on academic probation or even being dismissed. 

I don’t know what kind of colleges you’re talking about, but even less selective colleges have standards. You seem to be implying that all colleges are in it for the money and that as long as a kid can afford it, he can attend any school he wants, and that’s simply not true at all. It’s not that easy to get accepted into college — if it was easy, why would kids need to apply to multiple schools?

Holy crap Cat. Bla bla bla. Kids don't need to apply to multiple schools.  And all of your experience aside, seriously it is just a business and if you satisfy the requirements they give you a degree.  The requirements vary obviously,  but I guarantee, every educational institution has a screw up allowance.  Let's not make a college education more important than it really is.  

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

 

Except your last post implied you can fail a semester and as long as you paid tuition, you can go back with no consequences. 

That isn't necessarily true, esp. if a student already has a low GPA.

you can keep saying you're not angry...but you sure sound angry.

 

Yes, and acting like college is all about the money is also pretty insulting to college students who have worked very hard to get good grades in high school so they can be accepted into college, and who then work even harder to do well in their classes so they can eventually earn their degree.

 

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

 

Except your last post implied you can fail a semester and as long as you paid tuition, you can go back with no consequences. 

That isn't necessarily true, esp. if a student already has a low GPA.

you can keep saying you're not angry...but you sure sound angry.

I never said there are no consequences.  Obviously each school can set their own standards. But seriously are you people saying that one failed semester---for what ever reason-- is the end of an education? 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

Yes, and acting like college is all about the money is also pretty insulting to college students who have worked very hard to get good grades in high school so they can be accepted into college, and who then work even harder to do well in their classes so they can eventually earn their degree.

 

Again, I  never said it is all about the money.  I said  it is a business and IF you meet the standards they give you a degree.   That is not insulting to students who work hard to meet the standards.  Nor is it insulting to the student who had a semester that blew up for whatever reason.

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Holy crap Cat. Bla bla bla. Kids don't need to apply to multiple schools.  And all of your experience aside, seriously it is just a business and if you satisfy the requirements they give you a degree.  The requirements vary obviously,  but I guarantee, every educational institution has a screw up allowance.  Let's not make a college education more important than it really is.

 

“Bla bla bla?”  Seriously???

Have you spent any time at all on the college forums?  What gave you the idea that kids can get into whatever college they choose? That is completely inaccurate.

I’m honestly wondering where you’re getting your information.

Of course students have to meet the requirements in order to get a degree. That’s what unsinkable and I have been saying all along. You were the one who seemed to be saying that students can totally screw up, yet suffer no consequences because colleges just want their money.

I think your last sentence explains why we won’t agree on this, and why you may have such an unrealistic impression of what it really takes for a kid to be accepted into the college of his choice.

[Catwoman]

7 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I never said there are no consequences.  Obviously each school can set their own standards. But seriously are you people saying that one failed semester---for what ever reason-- is the end of an education? 

 

No one is saying that one failed semester is the end of an education. 

We are saying that it’s important to try to avoid that failure in the first place so there is no worry about facing unpleasant consequences.

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

“Bla bla bla?”  Seriously???

Have you spent any time at all on the college forums?  What gave you the idea that kids can get into whatever college they choose? That is completely inaccurate.

I’m honestly wondering where you’re getting your information.

Of course students have to meet the requirements in order to get a degree. That’s what unsinkable and I have been saying all along. You were the one who seemed to be saying that students can totally screw up, yet suffer no consequences because colleges just want their money.

I think your last sentence explains why we won’t agree on this, and why you may have such an unrealistic impression of what it really takes for a kid to be accepted into the college of his choice.

I never said kids can get into any college they choose? Why are you saying that? 

And I never said kids can just screw up and suffer no consequences because colleges just want their money.  Again why are you claiming I said that.? 

As for YOUR last comment , I do not have an unrealistic impression of what it takes for a kid to be accepted to a college of his choice.  This conversation was not even about that since CLEARLY the OPS child had already been accepted to the college of ( maybe) their choice. 

All i said was, college is a business, and a screwed  up semester is not the end of the world. 

 

[Scarlett]

12 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

No one is saying that one failed semester is the end of an education. 

We are saying that it’s important to try to avoid that failure in the first place so there is no worry about facing unpleasant consequences.

Ok, well I guess we agree, because that is EXACTLY what I was saying. 

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Cat, I went to college no where.  And yet, in the 35 years since, I have observed that college is a business and seriously, refusals are not that common and people can recover from a screw up of a semester. Please note that I am not suggesting the wisest course is for this student is to intentionally  screw up a semester of college over her best friend having a baby. I am suggesting that college is a business and it can be accomplished in a number of ways. 

 

Actually not true.  My husband's family had some issues in this regard.  My husband was the first to graduate college in his family.   He had two aunts who got kicked out for flunking out.  His sister was asked to leave a college due to grades, and my husband had to drop out of his major due to grades.

For some reason you think this is about money.  Money is only ONE factor.

[DawnM]

26 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Ok, well I guess we agree, because that is EXACTLY what I was saying. 

 

It can certainly cost you the college education you want.....you may be able to go back to CC or to a school that will accept you with low grades, but you could jeopardize the college you are in, possibly the major you want, and you WILL jeopardize any academic scholarship opportunities.

Edited August 19, 2018 by DawnM

[gardenmom5]

3 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

Well, clearly it was no biggie to you, but I would strongly suspect that most students (and certainly their parents as well) would be mortified at failing out of a semester, getting incompletes, withdrawals, and sub-C grades, as well at the absolute waste of both time and money. And with that kind of academic record at a junior college, most students would not be accepted into even a halfway decent four year university unless the program to which they applied was desperate for students. 

I think you must have gotten incredibly lucky, because I don’t think your experience is at all typical, at least not based on the stories I have heard IRL as well as on this forum and others. I’m sure you were more than capable of doing the work and getting excellent grades, but a university wouldn’t have known that when you submitted that transcript from the junior college. What degree did you end up getting, or did you drop out before graduating? (Sorry — I wasn’t entirely clear about that from reading your post.)

 

ds was all over the map when he first started college.  he took classes, he didn't apply himself, he failed out.  he took classes, he repeated classes, he changed his mind.  he dropped out.

HOWEVER - when he was ready to go back,  - he had to explain those previous failures to the admin board.   he'd started an entirely new program, nothing he took before applied.   the school was able to look at "just those classes that applied" and see a very healthy gpa,   but he had to explain himself about the previous forays.  while he's doing great now - he has blown years in his background that he can never get back.

regarding OP's dd.  if she's doing an ed program, and gets a lousy grade because she's not there - she'd have to retake the class to wipe out the lousy grade becasue it would affect her gpa for transferring.  (more time, more money).  and - even for ed majors, there are prereq's for classes, with minimum grade requirements.   even if she passed the class, if she didn't meet the minimum grade because she missed those first few classes, she would have to retake them (more time, more money) before she could move to the follow-on class.

[Bambam]

Colleges in TX do have limitations on how many classes you can drop (read the definition of drop though) that I posted at the end of this post. Do other states do this? 

I know at least two colleges I attended had minimum GPA (in your major) requirements as well as minimum over GPA requirements in order to be allowed to continue and graduate. 

So, depending upon how bad you "mess" up one semester, you could be kicked out of the school. 

Also - my understanding (which could be wrong) is that in Texas, you cannot take for college credit the same class you have already taken for college credit - unless you failed it. So if you get a C, you cannot take the class again to improve your grade to an A. My oldest was told this because she had most of her core classes and needed to take Honors classes in order to stay in the Honors program, but all the courses that semester she already had college credit for (dual credit in high school), so her only option was Independent Study.  So you might want to verify this idea that if you get a lousy grade, you can retake the class to wipe that grade out. 

For the original OP,  I think even planning to miss one week is a poor decision. If she gets sick later in the semester and has to miss another week for the flu, she made be a very bad position. But that is a big if. I personally would not do it. I never even skipped classes I *had* paid for. If I paid money, I was going to be there to get as much out of the class as I could. I can't imagine voluntarily not going to class. 

" Texas Education Code Section 51.907 “an institution of higher education may not permit a student to drop more than six courses, including any course a transfer student has dropped at another institution of higher education.” This law applies to courses dropped at public institutions of higher education in Texas, including community and technical colleges, health science centers that offer undergraduate programs, and universities. Some courses will not count against the six-drop limit. These include courses dropped at independent or private Texas institutions, courses dropped while the student is still enrolled in high school, developmental courses, non-funded courses or courses dropped at colleges in other states. For the purposes of this law, a “dropped course” is defined as a course that is dropped after the census date, but before the last day to drop."

Edited August 19, 2018 by Bambam

[teachermom2834]

My dh has taught online cc classes for about 12 years. He frequently has students missing for these reasons. He starts every semester with a bunch of emails from students saying “I’m getting married and going on a honeymoon and i’ll miss two weeks”, “I have a family reunion the week of the midterms so I’ll miss”, “I have a baby due mid semester so I’ll be out”, etc etc. The bar is very low in this class so these students do not fail. But they do end up with low grades. Some of them are applying to other programs where the grades will matter. 

So just because people do it and cc instructors are probably used to it doesn’t make it a good idea. Rarely is this a one off and the student is conscientious the rest of the year. It is normally a pattern of misplaced priorities and doesn’t bode well. Yes, cc students do often make these choices. The graduation rate at some cc colleges is also dismal. 

Now, I am not saying that school is more important than having a baby or going on a honeymoon or a family reunion. What I am saying is a college student has to make a choice and that means taking a semester off if you have a major event or not planning a major event mid semester. Sometimes people need to make choices. Even if you pay money you aren’t entitled to take a few weeks off mid semester without consequence. 

 

[elegantlion]

8 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

It can certainly cost you the college education you want.....you may be able to go back to CC or to a school that will accept you with low grades, but you could jeopardize the college you are in, possibly the major you want, and you WILL jeopardize any academic scholarship opportunities.

? (where is our little I agree dude?) I graduated in May with my BA and would have jeopardized all my aid (including scholarships, grants, and loans) by missing 1-2 weeks of class. The money and admin stuff aside,  I might have jeopardized letters of reference from professors and my own reputation about taking school seriously. A bad grade would have certainly affected my ability to move up in classes. 

As someone who has worked, then went to school recently as an adult, and is now TAing, so I'm seeing how/why attendance requirements are set (some federal requirements, some university specific), college is like a job. It's like one that everyone starts on the same day, training and orientation are all done in those first few weeks. Missing the first week or two of a job, one in which the hire date is set, is not something I imagine many of us would advise our children to do. College is not like in a job in that you can necessarily catch up as quickly, the pace of a semester is tight and most classes hit the ground running. 

College courses are run by people, including people on this board, not administrators. Many are parents trying to juggle work/home/life balance and realize that many students also have to balance those things. One of my professors this semester has 3 young children and a heavy teaching load. I don't envy her. That said, they may be sympathetic to the OPs request, but in the policies I've read lately, being out of town is not an excused absence. She may not be able to make up ANY of the missed work. Those policies are in place so as there can be no favoritism. 

 

 

[regentrude]

28 minutes ago, Bambam said:

 

Also - my understanding (which could be wrong) is that in Texas, you cannot take for college credit the same class you have already taken for college credit - unless you failed it. So if you get a C, you cannot take the class again to improve your grade to an A. 

That is the case at my college as well. Students may retake a class if they got a D or F; there is no way to improve a C.

[regentrude]

24 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

My dh has taught online cc classes for about 12 years. He frequently has students missing for these reasons. He starts every semester with a bunch of emails from students saying “I’m getting married and going on a honeymoon and i’ll miss two weeks”, “I have a family reunion the week of the midterms so I’ll miss”, “I have a baby due mid semester so I’ll be out”, etc etc. 

As a college instructor,  I consider these scenarios not comparable. I will bend over backwards to accommodate a student who is having a baby or who undergoes medical treatment, or who is called for military duties,  so that they can continue their education,  but have little sympathy for a student who *chooses* to schedule her honeymoon during the semester.  Pregnancy or illness are outside your control, but traveling is a choice.

Edited August 19, 2018 by regentrude

[unsinkable]

10 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Whaaaat? Seriously, things do happen and people go on to get degrees, get jobs and have normal lives. On the  scale of horrible no good days/ semesters failing or getting bad grades and having to re do a semester is barely a blip.  Most people aren't trying to get into Big important Schools......and ultimately college is a business and if you have the money for another semester they aren't going to refuse you because you had a semester that that you totally screwed up.  

This whole 'a good school would not consider you' is just sickening to me.  It is a business people.  They take your money and if you perform they give you a degree.  

All that said, I think the OP's dd made a mistake planning  to miss 2 weeks of school.  Missing one week is better but not ideal.....but is her decision. 

 

9 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I never said there are no consequences.  Obviously each school can set their own standards. But seriously are you people saying that one failed semester---for what ever reason-- is the end of an education? 

 

12 hours ago, unsinkable said:

If a Mom came on the board, panicking, and said...

"My kid missed the first 2 weeks of classes bc XYZ reason and got dropped from her classes. Now she's missing this semester and it is going to delay her transfer or graduation." OR "My kid didn't get enough credits this semester bc XYZ and now it is going to delay her transfer or graduation."

...I know the majority of posters would rally around her, reassure her, talk her down. "it will be OK. Not the end of the world. Don't worry. Let's come up with a plan." Etc...

That is completely different than advising a student to put herself in that situation deliberately. I think it is spectacularly bad advice to act like it is NBD to miss the first weeks of the semester bc the consequences aren't the end of the world. No, the consequences aren't the end of the world...but at this point, in this situation, they are avoidable. 

 

10 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Whaaaat? Seriously, things do happen and people go on to get degrees, get jobs and have normal lives. On the  scale of horrible no good days/ semesters failing or getting bad grades and having to re do a semester is barely a blip.  Most people aren't trying to get into Big important Schools......and ultimately college is a business and if you have the money for another semester they aren't going to refuse you because you had a semester that that you totally screwed up.  

This whole 'a good school would not consider you' is just sickening to me.  It is a business people.  They take your money and if you perform they give you a degree.  

All that said, I think the OP's dd made a mistake planning  to miss 2 weeks of school.  Missing one week is better but not ideal.....but is her decision. 

 

9 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I never said there are no consequences.  Obviously each school can set their own standards. But seriously are you people saying that one failed semester---for what ever reason-- is the end of an education? 

 

I thinking I'm messing up the quotes...

but I tried to quote where I said that no, I don't think one failed semester is the end an education. It could be a very big painful bump, though, and that is what we're trying to help people understand. 

Scarlett, you also wrote what I bolded above: If you have the money for another semester, they aren't going to refuse you bc you had a semester you totally screwed up.

This is not correct. It depends on many factors. You keep saying stuff like read the box and obviously there are rules, but the bolded is one of your first posts.  It sure reads like you think money is THE factor in continuing.

[teachermom2834]

23 minutes ago, regentrude said:

As a college instructor,  I consider these scenarios not comparable. I will bend over backwards to accommodate a student who is having a baby or who undergoes medical treatment, or who is called for military duties,  so that they can continue their education,  but have little sympathy for a student who *chooses* to schedule her honeymoon during the semester.  Pregnancy or illness are outside your control, but traveling is a choice.

Yes. And dh does offer lots of assistance in these cases. But there is a limit to what he can do. The issue seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of the commitment a college class is for most (not all) of these students. He allows late work, drops a couple quizzes and labs, and will substitute the exam final grade for a missed midterm. But there are limits and many of these students expect to take a lengthy maternity leave mid semester and he just can’t excuse them from half of the class. But I do agree with you!

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

My dh has taught online cc classes for about 12 years. He frequently has students missing for these reasons. He starts every semester with a bunch of emails from students saying “I’m getting married and going on a honeymoon and i’ll miss two weeks”, “I have a family reunion the week of the midterms so I’ll miss”, “I have a baby due mid semester so I’ll be out”, etc etc. The bar is very low in this class so these students do not fail. But they do end up with low grades. Some of them are applying to other programs where the grades will matter. 

So just because people do it and cc instructors are probably used to it doesn’t make it a good idea. Rarely is this a one off and the student is conscientious the rest of the year. It is normally a pattern of misplaced priorities and doesn’t bode well. Yes, cc students do often make these choices. The graduation rate at some cc colleges is also dismal. 

Now, I am not saying that school is more important than having a baby or going on a honeymoon or a family reunion. What I am saying is a college student has to make a choice and that means taking a semester off if you have a major event or not planning a major event mid semester. Sometimes people need to make choices. Even if you pay money you aren’t entitled to take a few weeks off mid semester without consequence. 

 

two weeks???? There is no reason to do that *during* a term. absolutely zero. no sympathy at all.  dd got married during her last year of grad school.   the "honeymooon" - was after she graduated.   (what caused her the most trouble were the stress hives, which were out of her control . . . . )

and having a baby - you KNOW you're going to be nine months pg and delivering a baby during the term, and should have an idea about all the upheaval that causes - take the term off.  yes, I have friends who had babies when they were in college. 

if they're not held accountable - they don't' have to "THINK" about reality, planning, and consequences.  and it will end up biting them.

1dd is a manager - she's now encountering these types in the workplace, if they got hired, she ends up firing them.  if they think this is ok in college, they think it's ok in the workplace.  sure it may have damaged their education by taking longer, or losing financing, having to change schools, etc. - they will also hurt themselves by what job offers they'll receive.   but if they don't learn, it carries into the workplace, who can't afford to be "tolerant" of the nonsense, and they lose their job. 

 

 

2 hours ago, elegantlion said:

? (where is our little I agree dude?) I graduated in May with my BA and would have jeopardized all my aid (including scholarships, grants, and loans) by missing 1-2 weeks of class. The money and admin stuff aside,  I might have jeopardized letters of reference from professors and my own reputation about taking school seriously. A bad grade would have certainly affected my ability to move up in classes. 

As someone who has worked, then went to school recently as an adult, and is now TAing, so I'm seeing how/why attendance requirements are set (some federal requirements, some university specific), college is like a job. It's like one that everyone starts on the same day, training and orientation are all done in those first few weeks. Missing the first week or two of a job, one in which the hire date is set, is not something I imagine many of us would advise our children to do. College is not like in a job in that you can necessarily catch up as quickly, the pace of a semester is tight and most classes hit the ground running. 

College courses are run by people, including people on this board, not administrators. Many are parents trying to juggle work/home/life balance and realize that many students also have to balance those things. One of my professors this semester has 3 young children and a heavy teaching load. I don't envy her. That said, they may be sympathetic to the OPs request, but in the policies I've read lately, being out of town is not an excused absence. She may not be able to make up ANY of the missed work. Those policies are in place so as there can be no favoritism. 

 

 

I AGREE   ?

 

there are grad programs that very much are "like a job".  they go year round, they are 9 - 5, they are five days a week.  part of what they're doing is to get them in the mindset of "this is what working a job is like".

[Pen]

@extendedforecast Has your daughter formulated a plan for getting what she misses that first week and making up that first week of work?

[dirty ethel rackham]

On 8/17/2018 at 11:42 AM, extendedforecast said:

The policy is that they can miss the equivalent of two weeks of classes. 

The friend is 1cm dilated, 75% effaced and baby is in station -3. How imminent is labor?

This means practically nothing.  She could have the baby tomorrow or in 3 weeks.  With my first, I was dilated 2 cm, 100% effaced and at zero station for 3 weeks.  With my 2nd, I was not dilated, not effaced and -1 station and had the baby the next morning after a 3 hour labor.  

14 hours ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

This is not the college world that my kids and their peers live in. Incompletes, withdrawals, some C's (let alone D's or F's), and not only will people care, they will lose their GPA-dependent merit scholarships, or get into other serious trouble with their financial aid and their competitive programs. They will not have success in the long run. They will have failure, and washing out, and more student debt than they can pay in a lifetime.

I'm not saying I think that's true for an ed major at a junior college. I honestly don't know. But for the benefit of parents reading who are new to the college scene in this era, and are as yet under-informed about how it's a Whole New World since they were in college, I think that's why we're all still saying something. The OP's dd has made her choice, and we all genuinely hope it will be totally fine. But for many college students, this isn't a one-off "people before things." The consequences will not be tiny life lessons. They will be door closers and deal breakers.

Yep.  When I was an education major many years ago, I needed a certain gpa to continue in the program.  I would not have been allowed to student teach without a B in certain classes and would not have been allowed to continue.  Retaking the class would only have averaged the grade.  The program I am applying to next spring has 100 applicants for 18 spots.  Getting a B in any of the critical classes would mean not getting in.  And this program is at a junior college.

14 hours ago, Katy said:

The friend can also choose to be induced at 39 weeks.  A few different studies have come out saying that's safer even for low-risk moms and ends up reducing the number of c-sections dramatically.

Any induction carries risks.   A non-medically necessary induction does not reduce the number of c-sections.  It actually is part of the reason why our c-section rates are so high that our maternal mortality rates are going UP.  

12 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Whaaaat? Seriously, things do happen and people go on to get degrees, get jobs and have normal lives. On the  scale of horrible no good days/ semesters failing or getting bad grades and having to re do a semester is barely a blip.  Most people aren't trying to get into Big important Schools......and ultimately college is a business and if you have the money for another semester they aren't going to refuse you because you had a semester that that you totally screwed up.  

This whole 'a good school would not consider you' is just sickening to me.  It is a business people.  They take your money and if you perform they give you a degree.  

All that said, I think the OP's dd made a mistake planning  to miss 2 weeks of school.  Missing one week is better but not ideal.....but is her decision. 

The financial impact could be more than "just a blip."  It could be a deal breaker.  And your second statement is false.  Maybe diploma mills would do this, but accredited schools can and do refuse to give degrees (or even admission to competitive programs).  And that can seriously derail someone's plans.  For some, that can be a permanent derail and a different life path altogether.  

11 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Well, obviously.  Clearly. I mean read the warning on the box and all of that.  But in general, a failed semester is not the end of the freaking world.  

Maybe not the end of the world, but can have serious impacts on one's educational goals.  Sometimes the financial hit is big enough that that avenue becomes completely closed.  

[extendedforecast]

59 minutes ago, Pen said:

@extendedforecast Has your daughter formulated a plan for getting what she misses that first week and making up that first week of work?

 

 DD has drafted an email explaining the situation. In it, she has a sentence that states something along the lines of, If these two absences will have a detrimental effect on my overall grade, please let me know so that I can rethink my decision. She also asks her professors the best way to keep up if they allow her to miss. I haven’t read the email yet, but we’ve discussed what she wants and needs to say. 

DD will either change her flight to come home before school begins or not go, depending on the responses. She may also withdraw early and skip this semester - my least favorite option.  DD would then have to make up the classes missed over the summer. 

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

There are grad programs that very much are "like a job".  they go year round, they are 9 - 5, they are five days a week.  part of what they're doing is to get them in the mindset of "this is what working a job is like".

Seriously? Grad programs where you are only required to work 9 to 5 on week days??? IME, grad programs are nothing like a job; they require much longer work hours and weekend work and make a full time job look like a vacation 

[DawnM]

20 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Oh man.  This thread.  It explains so many attitudes.

I think people have been pretty straightforward with facts.  The OP asked a question and people are answering it.  None of us want to see her daughter suffer negative consequences based on a decision that may cause that to happen.   

Edited August 19, 2018 by DawnM

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, dirty ethel rackham said:

This means practically nothing.  She could have the baby tomorrow or in 3 weeks.  With my first, I was dilated 2 cm, 100% effaced and at zero station for 3 weeks.  With my 2nd, I was not dilated, not effaced and -1 station and had the baby the next morning after a 3 hour labor.  

Yep.  When I was an education major many years ago, I needed a certain gpa to continue in the program.  I would not have been allowed to student teach without a B in certain classes and would not have been allowed to continue.  Retaking the class would only have averaged the grade.  The program I am applying to next spring has 100 applicants for 18 spots.  Getting a B in any of the critical classes would mean not getting in.  And this program is at a junior college.

Any induction carries risks.   A non-medically necessary induction does not reduce the number of c-sections.  It actually is part of the reason why our c-section rates are so high that our maternal mortality rates are going UP.  

The financial impact could be more than "just a blip."  It could be a deal breaker.  And your second statement is false.  Maybe diploma mills would do this, but accredited schools can and do refuse to give degrees (or even admission to competitive programs).  And that can seriously derail someone's plans.  For some, that can be a permanent derail and a different life path altogether.  

Maybe not the end of the world, but can have serious impacts on one's educational goals.  Sometimes the financial hit is big enough that that avenue becomes completely closed.  

1.    2nd babies are not first babies and your body knows the difference.   a primagavada's cervix rarely goes as fast as a multis.

 

2. .I don't understand the thinking induction is ok for *convenience*!!!!  for pity's sake . . . induction often can lead to further interventions and should only be done for medical need.

 

. 3. - this.  and impact on educational goal WILL have impact on careers/jobs.   and yeah - some of the attitudes towards college . . . one reason why counselors in high school will tell the students - if you are not ready to be an applied student, do NOT do running start because those grades will follow you with more negative impact than any high school grade.

 

7 minutes ago, extendedforecast said:

 

 DD has drafted an email explaining the situation. In it, she has a sentence that states something along the lines of, If these two absences will have a detrimental effect on my overall grade, please let me know so that I can rethink my decision. She also asks her professors the best way to keep up if they allow her to miss. I haven’t read the email yet, but we’ve discussed what she wants and needs to say. 

DD will either change her flight to come home before school begins or not go, depending on the responses. She may also withdraw early and skip this semester - my least favorite option.  DD would then have to make up the classes missed over the summer. 

why does this have to be dependent upon the responses?   her profs are not her babysitters.  skipping the semester is actually preferable to skipping the first two weeks and expecting it to not impact her performance in those classes. (which will have a chain reaction.)

2ds has done summer classes - he vowed never to do it again because the term is shorter - but it's just as much material.

[Bootsie]

3 hours ago, regentrude said:

That is the case at my college as well. Students may retake a class if they got a D or F; there is no way to improve a C.

I have taught at a public university in Texas and students could retake a class.  If the first attempt was an "F", the second attempt grade replaced the first attempt in the GPA calculation (I can't remember how the first attempt appeared on the transcript).  If the first attempt was a "D-" or higher, both grades factored into the GPA.  This led to odd situations where a student who made a "C" and retook the class and made an "A" had the same GPA as a student who made an "F" and then a "B".  It also led to odd situations of students who had a D average in a class asking to fail the class instead of receiving a D.
 

[gardenmom5]

6 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Seriously? Grad programs where you are only required to work 9 to 5 on week days??? IME, grad programs are nothing like a job; they require much longer work hours and weekend work and make a full time job look like a vacation 

sorry -I wasn't clear. dental students interfacing with patients while they're IN THE UNI from 9-5. (or 8 - 4) I wasn't including all their homework/prepwork.  

[extendedforecast]

7 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

why does this have to be dependent upon the responses?   her profs are not her babysitters.  skipping the semester is actually preferable to skipping the first two weeks and expecting it to not impact her performance in those classes. (which will have a chain reaction.)

2ds has done summer classes - he vowed never to do it again because the term is shorter - but it's just as much material.

Because she’s an adult and has decided to get a feel for what they say before throwing in the towel. She says the majority of her previous instructors would have been okay with the absences. I’ve reeled her in so much this far, but ultimately she needs to make the decision. 

Edited August 19, 2018 by extendedforecast
Edited to show the part of gardenmom5’s post to which I responded.

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

10 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Seriously? Grad programs where you are only required to work 9 to 5 on week days??? IME, grad programs are nothing like a job; they require much longer work hours and weekend work and make a full time job look like a vacation 

 

YES! Grad school is literally the most difficult thing I’ve ever endured. I loved every minute of it, but boy is it an all encompassing experience.  

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

36 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Oh man.  This thread.  It explains so many attitudes.

 

You are reading the attitudes of people who don't have endless disposable income, scholarships, and time, and neither do their kids, to get college right. Do you have any idea how many young people in this nation have, at most, ONE run at an undergrad degree?? If they blow it, or if it gets blown due to circumstances beyond their control, they will still have to grow up and support themselves somehow. There are other means of livelihood, nobody is disputing that, but this ONE run is the reason some people treat their college attempt as a primary thing.

If you've had luck, or money, or parental support, while you floundered about and let scholarships go and got Ds and Fs, then hooray for your safety net, but you also are demonstrating some attitudes of elitism that are useless to anyone who has to make their own way.

[Bootsie]

13 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Holy crap Cat. Bla bla bla. Kids don't need to apply to multiple schools.  And all of your experience aside, seriously it is just a business and if you satisfy the requirements they give you a degree.  The requirements vary obviously,  but I guarantee, every educational institution has a screw up allowance.  Let's not make a college education more important than it really is.  

How much a university is "just a business" varies greatly.  Some universities have more students than they have space; they don't worry a bit about having one less customer/student.    While there may be a screw up allowance, so that a screw up does not prevent one from receiving a college education, it can have costly consequences.  These consequences can be monetary, such as loss of scholarship, loss of financial aid, missing out on paid internships, or having to pay a higher tuition rate for repeated classes.  Or, the consequences may be not getting in a desired major, not gualifying for graduate school,  delaying graduation due to course sequencing, more difficulty in getting into advanced classes because of not meeting minimum hour requirements for early registration.  

It is not impossible to complete a college degree (or get into grad school or get a job) with one (or even more) bad semester.  However, it is highly likely that it will make those things MORE difficult.  Exactly how much more difficult will depend on a number of specifics.   

[Lang Syne Boardie]

20 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Yeah.  The girl who got kicked out and went to college so she could have the flexibility to work through the remainder of high school, had almost zero parental support, and had to navigate the entire thing alone and long distance.  Elitism.  SMH.

It is precisely the treating of college like it’s one golden shot and you’re hosed if it isn’t perfectly executed at precisely the right time that is such an issue.  

 

 

 

I was also homeless as a minor, and clawed my way up, with some mistakes along the way. The difference between us is that I don't glibly recommend it, just because it rather astoundingly worked out for me. I have zero reason to teach a young person who has the CHOICE that they can be blithe about their own future.

What I would say to a young person in the process of clawing, is "don't give up, there are always options and your attitude is the main thing." But I am not talking to that young person who is in trouble right now, in this thread. We, meaning myself and everybody else here but you and Scarlett (who never went to college), are talking to parents, with the purpose of encouraging them to support their young person at college because while there may be many paths in life, there are not unlimited tracks to an undergrad degree without a dangerous level of debt.

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by Tibbie Dunbar

[marbel]

50 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Yeah.  The girl who got kicked out and went to college so she could have the flexibility to work through the remainder of high school, had almost zero parental support, and had to navigate the entire thing alone and long distance.  Elitism.  SMH.

It is precisely the treating of college like it’s one golden shot and you’re hosed if it isn’t perfectly executed at precisely the right time that is such an issue.  

 

 

But your experience, admirable as it may be, isn't universal. There are people all over the place working in crappy jobs because they missed their one shot at college. I know people like that; my kids have met people like that and some of those people are encouraging my kids to put school above everything else.  ("Stay in school, J, don't turn out like the rest of us" is a direct quote my son got from a coworker, while others around him agreed.)  Glad it worked out for you --> that's not snark, I am glad when it works out for anyone. But don't present it as if it's typical or normal and everyone else is wrong on the topic.

Edited August 19, 2018 by marbel

[catz]

26 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Yeah.  The girl who got kicked out and went to college so she could have the flexibility to work through the remainder of high school, had almost zero parental support, and had to navigate the entire thing alone and long distance.  Elitism.  SMH.

It is precisely the treating of college like it’s one golden shot and you’re hosed if it isn’t perfectly executed at precisely the right time that is such an issue.  

But for some parents it IS their one golden shot to help!  They have 2-5 years they can financially help their offspring to some degree and/or have maybe a possible challenging young adult living in their space.  Having plenty of resources for retirement is also a huge gift to your kids.  If you did it all yourself, of course you have full autonomy.   If this student was employed, could get 3 weeks of vacation (unlikely), was living in her own space and had the money/scholarships to cover college fully, I said stay out of it.  

I've also seen you insinuate in some threads that young adults shouldn't be taking advantage of their parents.  Well this is an example of an adult child mooching off of a parent's goodwill.  And I don't know the exact circumstances, the OP is handling how she is comfortable which is fine.  Every family might have different ways of handling this.  Insinuating that a parent is horrible because they expect a young adult going to school on their dime to take it seriously is  quite over the top..  Like I said, most adults can't just walk away from their life and responsibilities for 3 full weeks without pay.  

Edited August 19, 2018 by FuzzyCatz

[TechWife]

13 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

No one is saying that one failed semester is the end of an education. 

We are saying that it’s important to try to avoid that failure in the first place so there is no worry about facing unpleasant consequences.

I’ll add to this - this is a potential failure that is avoidable. Students with low GPA’s are put on academic probation. At many universities & colleges there is a limit to the number of semesters that a student can be on probation. When that limit is reached, the student moves to academic suspension. This means they can’t take classes for a prescribed period of time (a year or two) and  have to apply for readmission, and it’s not easy to gain readmission when you have a failing GPA. It is also not easy to gain admission to a different school. 

This student is willingly engaging in behavior that could cause her to fail a class or classes. There maybe be a point or points  in the future that the student has much less control over whether or not they fail a class or classes. If that were to happen, it could, indeed, derail the students’ education, finances and/or planned career. 

This is a student that doesn’t seem sure about a career path. If she fails classes, she is certainly closing the door to some careers. Not only careers in the near future, but in the distant future as well. 

The reality is that missing the beginning of a semester is a bad decision with ramifications that are, quite honestly, unknown in full. 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, extendedforecast said:

 

 DD has drafted an email explaining the situation. In it, she has a sentence that states something along the lines of, If these two absences will have a detrimental effect on my overall grade, please let me know so that I can rethink my decision. She also asks her professors the best way to keep up if they allow her to miss. I haven’t read the email yet, but we’ve discussed what she wants and needs to say. 

DD will either change her flight to come home before school begins or not go, depending on the responses. She may also withdraw early and skip this semester - my least favorite option.  DD would then have to make up the classes missed over the summer. 

 

That is sounding pretty good.

It possibly should also go to her counselor if any, and registrar, or people who, in addition to her professors, would know about possible other important issues and impacts she should be aware of. 

Changing flight to come home before school begins,  to me keeps seeming like best compromise between friendship and doing well at school, even if professors sound lenient. 

[DawnM]

24 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Reassuring a mom who has a child already set on the idea is where I’m at.  Obviously she knows the way she’d like her daughter to handle this.  That’s not what’s happening.

 

Reassure her that everything will be peachy and work out and there will be no consequences?  I can't do that.  I don't know that to be true.

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, extendedforecast said:

 

 DD has drafted an email explaining the situation. In it, she has a sentence that states something along the lines of, If these two absences will have a detrimental effect on my overall grade, please let me know so that I can rethink my decision. She also asks her professors the best way to keep up if they allow her to miss. I haven’t read the email yet, but we’ve discussed what she wants and needs to say. 

DD will either change her flight to come home before school begins or not go, depending on the responses. She may also withdraw early and skip this semester - my least favorite option.  DD would then have to make up the classes missed over the summer. 

 

If your dd is even remotely considering skipping this semester to help her friend, please ask her what she would do if this time next year, that same friend is pregnant again and getting ready to give birth to baby #2. Because it could happen. And at that point, the friend would have a one year-old baby plus a new baby. Would your dd skip another semester to help that friend again? 

[unsinkable]

26 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

If your dd is even remotely considering skipping this semester to help her friend, please ask her what she would do if this time next year, that same friend is pregnant again and getting ready to give birth to baby #2. Because it could happen. And at that point, the friend would have a one year-old baby plus a new baby. Would your dd skip another semester to help that friend again? 

 

Well, Arctic Mama, Sneezymom, and Tanaqui and all their friends can go help her if that happens.

[Tanaqui]

Sure, let's just jump off that slippery slope. Her friend will ALWAYS be pregnant, and she will NEVER go back to school, and the ONLY things that matter are your education and your actual blood relatives (but only if they're, like, on their death beds) and friends can go screw themselves. But why stop there? Surely, once all your relatives are on their death beds they will no longer require your assistance. You should just stay home.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Tanaqui

[Sneezyone]

OP has said her child is not in a demanding STEM field at a major university (so missing two weeks of quantum physics is not an issue). The pregnant friend's MIL may or may not be of assistance b/c their relationship is iffy and the pregnant friend's family is not available for whatever reason(s) (so speculating about other familial assistance is pointless). OP's child is an adult and has been informed of the potential consequences of her choice and given some good advice as to how to make her time with friend as helpful as it can be. OP's student is also working to minimize the negative effects of this choice by communicating with instructors in advance. What more needs to be said/done? The rest is up to OP and her child.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Sneezyone

[DawnM]

3 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

Sure, let's just jump off that slippery slope. Her friend will ALWAYS be pregnant, and she will NEVER go back to school, and the ONLY things that matter are your education and your actual blood relatives (but only if they're, like, on their death beds) and friends can go screw themselves. But why stop there? Surely, once all your relatives are on their death beds they will no longer require your assistance. You should just stay home.

 

And leap down the other side?  

We all make decisions.  We do the best we can given the info we have.  We are just trying to offer all the info.  

Edited August 19, 2018 by DawnM