Stuff on teaching reading

[PeterPan]

8 minutes ago, Mainer said:

Dang, I didn't see this earlier. ReadWorks is super! I never had the kids do the "Book of Knowledge" thing, but I really love the quizzes that accompany the articles. Very simple and good, I think. 

Cool! It's on my list of need to start next week stuff, lol. We've been ramping up, trying not to squig him out. We have the BEAUTIFUL new american history from Gander Publishing/LMB going and we got math going with three components a day. I'm really proud of that btw. Like we're finally back to doing math like I want to do math. I could see doing MORE, but we're doing it. Doing it is better than not doing it.

There's probably some moral there. 

[Kanin]

1 minute ago, PeterPan said:

Cool! It's on my list of need to start next week stuff, lol. We've been ramping up, trying not to squig him out. We have the BEAUTIFUL new american history from Gander Publishing/LMB going and we got math going with three components a day. I'm really proud of that btw. Like we're finally back to doing math like I want to do math. I could see doing MORE, but we're doing it. Doing it is better than not doing it.

There's probably some moral there. 

Yea! Way to go! 

Yup, probably some moral... haha ? Also, doing something and not getting burned out is way better than doing too much and then having to stop!

[PeterPan]

I'm fiddling around with Word Callers some more, trying to make sure we've done enough in chapter 5 to move on to chapter 6. Chapter 5 is flexible thinking, and it has you working on jokes, multiple meaning words, idioms, ambiguity, etc. I found this https://www.teacherspayteachers.com/Product/Structural-Ambiguity-accompanying-worksheet-3704745  that was pretty solid and the price was right (free).

I'm really liking the way they explain visualization in chapter 6. I'm thinking I'll go through it their way before trying the HN Visualization book. I have it and like it, but I think some precursor steps might be good. 

[PeterPan]

Couldn't decide whether to put this here or in its on thread. https://www.teacherspayteachers.com/FreeDownload/FREE-Morphological-Awareness-Assessment-K-1-2698197  This free morphological awareness assesssment appears to be what Wolter and Pike are using in this study https://lshss.pubs.asha.org/article.aspx?articleid=2107263&fbclid=IwAR0jP90rt2qflbeyFVLsjPvwQg5_HpS-BMpe2nf2OsUfZemAZZOHxUE7zBc which is explained more fully in this pdf https://ir.lib.uwo.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=scsdpres

Jist is they're demonstrating a link between morphological awareness and reading comprehension and giving you a way to assess it for free so you can target your intervention. So, for instance my ds is fine with plurals and possessives but he's falling down on participles (past and present) and gerunds. So if we can put words to it, then we can target it. And personally I think it should bump his expressive language more than his reading comprehension, since he seems to infer a lot in context for reading comprehension that he can't do actively, without models, as expressive language.

Edited October 20, 2018 by PeterPan

[PeterPan]

Well I don't know what it is, but ds is reading this whole book tonight The Stonekeeper (Amulet #1)  So that's a happy dance!!!!

I walked the library tonight a bit, just trying to get inspiration for ds, and ended up in the graphic novels section. It's rather large, and the librarian came over and offered to help. I said I had a 10 yo with dyslexia and autism who could read (high level) but wouldn't. She's like try this! 

The book is actually really beautiful, though I didn't go through it myself to see what in the world the plot is. I know graphic novels are all the rage, and frankly this is the first time I've ever seen anything of the shut the door, keep the light on, I'm gonna keep reading this... thing going. So if graphic novels will do that, then we'll do graphic novels! I know about Graphica (a book on using them for instruction) and have it here. I'm just really surprised he's taking to it so well, frankly. I had gotten rather hopeless, sigh. I mean the SLP is a bust, everything seems a bust, and now he's like oh of course I would read that. Go figure.

I do need to bring in more for language and decoding and keep moving him up. I assume language (syntax, morphology, narrative) is the reason he's not moving into longer works comfortably. I'll keep trying, sigh. But for tonight, one book at least is cool. 

[Lecka]

I don’t think you need to worry so much about moving him up.  It is fine for him to take time at a stage, and it’s fine for him to be where he is.  

He can build up breadth and a good foundation, even without moving up.

Think how long typical kids spend at each of these stages.  It’s not reasonable to “expect” to be able to make it shorter and faster.  If kids do move up more quickly, that is great.  But there is a need to respect where kids are developmentally.  

This is overall language development, and it takes time.  

 

[PeterPan]

Oh I meant moving his skills up, not the material. I agree I'm very happy for him to be here, reading graphic novels, read through that section, and let the next step unfold naturally. That's what I really liked about last night, that it was the first time I saw him interacting naturally with text the way you WANT to see someone interacting, wanting it, choosing to read more, etc. It was like we found his perfect happy spot right now, something he can read, by choice, and just keep reading. 

55 minutes ago, Lecka said:

This is overall language development, and it takes time.

I finally went through his IEP and wrote out for myself all the language goals (just the numbers), trying to see who on the team was working on what. There were 12 goals!!! And they were almost all assigned, even in the IEP itself, to the SLP, not the intervention specialist. So it's no wonder the SLP was feeling overwhelmed and not hitting goals and rotating through stuff. Even using activities designed to hit multiple goals at once, she still couldn't get there, not in 45 minutes a week. 

And then it also makes sense why I get overwhelmed. Because if a paid professional is overwhelmed, I probably am allowed to be too, lol. We all know there's high potential, but the range of what is affected is just astonishing. And for these LA areas, so many of those goals come TOGETHER to let stuff happen, sigh.

He doesn't have decoding goals in his IEP. I just think that LizB's comments about moving his decoding forward to a much, much higher level have some merit. I've been thinking quite a bit how to do that. I think it fits with why this Amulet book went well, because it was the convergence of skill and something at a level it was finally worth doing for him. If he doesn't LIKE the books, if he doesn't find them interesting, then it doesn't matter if they're decodable to him or easier or whatever. Easier may actually backfire with him. It has to be that convergence of harder and within reach. So the more I can bump what is in reach, the more I can open to him things that are harder that will interest him. That's what I meant by moving up. I cannot keep walking through the easy reader section of the library and saying they ought to work, even though they're charming, blah blah. He's got a high IQ, is 10, and wants to read what his brain wants to read. That's where the librarian's advice was so insightful, because she's like this is the more mature choice for kids in that position.

 

[Lecka]

If he likes that, I bet there are a lot of similar books he will like!

My older son is in an anime club at school, too, it is a popular hobby right now, and I think just gets more popular as kids get into middle school.  

[PeterPan]

Some links on TPT to work on complex sentences. 

https://www.teacherspayteachers.com/Product/Complex-Sentence-Builder-2465793

https://www.teacherspayteachers.com/Product/Christmas-Sentence-Builder-160-cards-056230600-1385905170

Zipoli 2017 on what syntactic structures to target to improve reading comprehension https://www.smartspeechtherapy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Unraveling-Difficult-Sentences.pdf 

1-passive voice

2-adverbial clauses, causal/temporal

3-relative clauses (middle embedding)

4-sentences with sentences with 3+ clauses embedded

And they point out that dc with language impairments struggle with WORD ORDER. So those sentence builder tasks are actually really advanced, because you're both putting words that were out of order into order AND working on a new syntactic structure. My theory right now is to start with          Learning Advantage CRE6006 Super Sentence Game      which does it at the phrase level, then move to single words. That's also why they start with passive. Not that it's so terribly useful or desirable, but it's building that flexibility to rearrange word order and still get meaning. Zipoli gives instructional ideas in the article too. 

So my plan right now is to start with passives and use some old SPARC for Grammar units for a sequence of pictures to riff and turn into passive. Definitely don't need to sit there drawing pics when I already have pics, and SPARC was golden for him. There are enough samples of the SPARC for Grammar units on Linguisystems that anyone else could do this for free if they just needed a dab. 

 

[PeterPan]

https://jslhr.pubs.asha.org/article.aspx?articleid=2706433&utm_source=asha&utm_campaign=JSLHR&cmp=1&utm_medium=enewsletter&fbclid=IwAR2Swh42vzByEicc0O5P4KUJ9zyE3g8iZ4tXSdwgbK2-oOb_VpsNGv2sa9g  And now to learn what in the world "elaborative inferencing" is!

I'm on the lead with some stuff by a Dr. Timothy Rasinski that I'm excited about. He has something called Vocabulary Ladders that works on meaning nuances and actually has grade levels (2-6). He has some more I'm looking into too, just mid-process. I'm cleaning too. Call it mental health, lol.

Edited October 27, 2018 by PeterPan

[Kanin]

Dr. Rasinski is a big deal in the academic world of teaching reading. I read a whole bunch by him for my M.Ed. - he's published a ton about fluency. I hadn't heard about his vocabulary things. Just looked up his university page, and his email is right there - you could send him an email! ?

 

[PeterPan]

That Rasinksi stuff is published by Teacher Created Materials, and they have 20% off through 11/30/18 with the coupon code FALL20. It was on their FB page, score.

It looks like the code GHOST gets you off even more!!!!!!!!!

Edited October 27, 2018 by PeterPan

[PeterPan]

Can't remember if I already posted this, but here's the Nippold article on language disability factors affecting reading comprehension in adolescents. There's something called unlock that you can add as a browser add-on and if the article is available for free elsewhere (like this was) it will link you. Jist is 3 factors: decoding, lexical development, and syntax. So can they decode it, do they know what the words are, do they get how they're working together in the larger sentences and flow. Not rocket science but sorta rocket science. 

And think about how their data is taking aim at the whole guided reading movement and the idea that we can 28 strategy our way to reading comprehension. All those 28 strategies work WHEN these other foundational pieces are in place. And the Zippoli study was saying the gains from working on syntax weren't even dose dependent! Think about that. That means if they worked at the syntax (adverbal clauses, relative clauses, objective complements) once a week or 2-3 times a week, the kids still made significant gains. Means an SLP or motivated intervention person actually could make a difference even targeting only once a week. Boom.

I'm starting to look at ds' read alouds and stuff he's willing to read afresh, noticing the syntactic complexity. I think I was working around it and didn't see the pattern.

[Kanin]

8 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Can't remember if I already posted this, but here's the Nippold article on language disability factors affecting reading comprehension in adolescents. There's something called unlock that you can add as a browser add-on and if the article is available for free elsewhere (like this was) it will link you. Jist is 3 factors: decoding, lexical development, and syntax. So can they decode it, do they know what the words are, do they get how they're working together in the larger sentences and flow. Not rocket science but sorta rocket science. 

And think about how their data is taking aim at the whole guided reading movement and the idea that we can 28 strategy our way to reading comprehension. All those 28 strategies work WHEN these other foundational pieces are in place. And the Zippoli study was saying the gains from working on syntax weren't even dose dependent! Think about that. That means if they worked at the syntax (adverbal clauses, relative clauses, objective complements) once a week or 2-3 times a week, the kids still made significant gains. Means an SLP or motivated intervention person actually could make a difference even targeting only once a week. Boom.

I'm starting to look at ds' read alouds and stuff he's willing to read afresh, noticing the syntactic complexity. I think I was working around it and didn't see the pattern.

 

This is fascinating! I can't see the link, though - could you tell me the title of the article and the author(s)?

[PeterPan]

https://lshss.pubs.asha.org/article.aspx?articleid=2617770  This is the article. You need the browser extension unpaywall. It works on chrome, not sure about what other browsers. So unpaywall will put an unlocked symbol on the side of the screen if a free version is available, and that's what I had clicked and linked to. So you can do the same yourself, and then you'll have the unpaywall thing. 

[PeterPan]

http://unpaywall.org  You want it, you'll love it.

[PeterPan]

You know you're itching to read another article on grammatical intervention and using it to bump narrative language and reading comprehension...

Ten Principles of Grammar Facilitation for Children ... - Semantic Scholarhttps://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/2c6a/711e5d32eecea380b3b79d08d03b5fcd6e71.pdf

and a few ideas here https://thedabblingspeechie.com/2016/01/effective-grammar-intervention-resources/

Edited October 29, 2018 by PeterPan

[Kanin]

Haha, thanks!

Question: When are you getting your PhD in one of these areas?! You could be the practitioner you've been searching for!! (I know you already are, but you could charge the big $$$!)

  

[PeterPan]

Would it be boring to report that ds has now read *4* of the books in the Amulet series and two Encyclopedia Brown books? 

[PeterPan]

On October 29, 2018 at 5:18 PM, Mainer said:

Haha, thanks!

Question: When are you getting your PhD in one of these areas?! You could be the practitioner you've been searching for!! (I know you already are, but you could charge the big $$$!)

  

Btw, you realize how many I CAN'T DO THIS moments I have?? Sigh. Oh my. Every time I start looking for another provider, trying to find help, that's always why. And in the end, almost invariably, I've had to suck up, pull up my pants, take a deep breath, whatever, and do it myself. Even with an almost $30k a year scholarship I can't find the people ready to engage at this level. I've been watching the Good Doctor in english as a follow-up to the korean series that I loved. This is a clip of a quote from there, and it's sort of in that vein. There's a lot of other mangled mess along the way, but the sentiment at the end is what I have to tell myself sometimes. Like now I'm starting this Interoception stuff and it's like wow, how in the WORLD am I supposed to do that??? But fine, we'll suck up and we'll figure it out. After all, we can do anything. I mean, he's 10 and he will now read a book. A brief book, a graphic novel, something aimed at 1st/2nd graders, nevertheless a BOOK. And he's picking these books up himself and choosing to read them and choosing to stay up and laugh and engage. And that's a miracle and it reflects lots of hard work on language and helping him be ready to understand and engage with all the aspects of reading (decoding, narrative, syntax, etc.). And no, even my doubled down two MA (one in English and one in SLP) wouldn't engage with him on syntax. I kid you not. I end up doing it. We have to suck it up deep in our souls and tell ourselves the truth.

 

[PeterPan]

I'm now diagramming Encyclopedia Brown sentences with him daily. I think it's brilliant, honestly. I'm doing it because he needs flexibility to understand meaning even when the word order changes. I am using the language he's reading, because I figure it will make him more attention while he's reading. It seems to be working. He's so super bright and he's just responding really well to it, catching on. He'll also then say it fries his brain, lol. We only do two sentences, but I pick them for instructional value, not ease. They really make him think and push his envelope of comprehension. 

I have the two Rothstein PowerBooks for Syntax and am hoping to start them this week. They'll probably be an extension of our diagramming work, more in that vein. They're giving me an outline to follow, but even then I need to kick them up with more expressive language work.

So I'm pretty psyched. He has eased into this reading thing so nicely. He's saying that it makes his brain feel fried, but that was after a whole book of Amulet and seems reasonable. He's wearing his glasses, so presumably it's not vision, yes? Does that feeling of fatigue with reading get better? Amulet has really choppy language and wouldn't even be worth it to diagram, so it's not the complexity of the language. 

[Kanin]

On 11/4/2018 at 2:33 PM, PeterPan said:

Would it be boring to report that ds has now read *4* of the books in the Amulet series and two Encyclopedia Brown books? 

 

That is AMAZING!!!! Could he be... enjoying reading?

[Kanin]

On 11/4/2018 at 2:46 PM, PeterPan said:

Btw, you realize how many I CAN'T DO THIS moments I have?? Sigh. Oh my. Every time I start looking for another provider, trying to find help, that's always why. And in the end, almost invariably, I've had to suck up, pull up my pants, take a deep breath, whatever, and do it myself. Even with an almost $30k a year scholarship I can't find the people ready to engage at this level. I've been watching the Good Doctor in english as a follow-up to the korean series that I loved. This is a clip of a quote from there, and it's sort of in that vein. There's a lot of other mangled mess along the way, but the sentiment at the end is what I have to tell myself sometimes. Like now I'm starting this Interoception stuff and it's like wow, how in the WORLD am I supposed to do that??? But fine, we'll suck up and we'll figure it out. After all, we can do anything. I mean, he's 10 and he will now read a book. A brief book, a graphic novel, something aimed at 1st/2nd graders, nevertheless a BOOK. And he's picking these books up himself and choosing to read them and choosing to stay up and laugh and engage. And that's a miracle and it reflects lots of hard work on language and helping him be ready to understand and engage with all the aspects of reading (decoding, narrative, syntax, etc.). And no, even my doubled down two MA (one in English and one in SLP) wouldn't engage with him on syntax. I kid you not. I end up doing it. We have to suck it up deep in our souls and tell ourselves the truth.

 

Do you suppose nobody can do it so far, because everything you need to do is so specialized for your DS? Or do you think providers are just doing generic help-y stuff, that helps somewhat for most people, but doesn't really get to the root of the issues? 

If you can't find people to spend the $30k scholarship, can you spend it on things for your DS - like interoception materials, conferences, books, etc? Tutors?

[PeterPan]

3 minutes ago, Mainer said:

That is AMAZING!!!! Could he be... enjoying reading?

Yes, it's almost scary to think, after all this time, he might be!!!

I really feel validated, like pat me on the back something is working. And the Cooking to Learn stuff is awesome and fitting him beautifully. He's having SO much fun with that. And our math is going ok, with steady forward progress in Ronit Bird and kit math and the block design book. We're now hitting read alouds every day, meaning we're covering Bible, history, science, literature. It's really just astonishing. He's doing well with his language too, working on changing passive to active, back and forth, diagramming sentences and being flexible. There's a lot of guidance there, Vygotsky kinda thing, not independent, but still. 

So yes, it's amazing. We actually had a good day.

 

[PeterPan]

2 minutes ago, Mainer said:

Do you suppose nobody can do it so far, because everything you need to do is so specialized for your DS? Or do you think providers are just doing generic help-y stuff, that helps somewhat for most people, but doesn't really get to the root of the issues? 

If you can't find people to spend the $30k scholarship, can you spend it on things for your DS - like interoception materials, conferences, books, etc? Tutors?

Yes, that has been the bitter pill to realize that the school system (even autism schools) is set up to do generic therapy. The SLP does the same "therapy" with all the kids that day. The OT is gonna do the same thing with every kid that walks in the door that day. I kid you not. And I was walking in with these really nuanced, persnickity issues and they were like buzz off and let us go back to our routine. They would SAY they wanted to work with me, but they wanted to go right back to their own thing, generic, prep one way for everyone and hope it fits.

And I think in general it makes sense and I see why. But I didn't need general intervention, sorry. I needed really targeted, really nitpicky thorough intervention to hit stuff. I have VERY HIGH expectations for where I think he can be, and I can't get that with generic therapy that is meant for every kid in that autism school. And I beat my head and wasted so much time not understanding they weren't going to get me there. I wasted HOURS trying to go back and forth and complaining and asking. 

Oh the scholarship, I don't know. This will sound terrible, but last year I was on antibiotics 3 or 4 times, I forget (like so many I literally lost track). I just decided this year I was gonna ignore dollars, do what we want, and not stress over it. It's the first year in several that I've had no problems with my asthma, zero. After the sickness from the final IEP meeting, it has just been OVER, gone, poof. It was the stress just killing me. So I have to kind of de-stress, even if it means I leave money on the table.

I do have options that can hog money too, like there will be summer camps, etc. I have an OT opening up a spot in December-ish if we want it. I have another OT offering to come to my house. I have in the back of my mind an idea to hire some college workers just to come talk with him and interact with him on subjects. If I were credentialed, maybe I could be a provider and pay myself, haha.

But no, for now, I'm just trying to keep things in a lull and not get sick. Think about the improvements here. He is now timidly starting to read, actually read, and read by choice. He's staying calm and working with me. We've got a lot of good things going, and we're having to do it our own way. I was thinking about that overnight and today, about friends I've had in the past, and I really don't think it was about right or wrong ways to do things. I think some cases are just so hard that we need to be left alone in a way to do it our own way. We had to plow our own path and go this is what's right for HIM and this is the mix that's working FOR HIM. 

I think the school here looks at him and thinks there are things they'd do better. I think there are things, subtle, deep things, that I'm doing that are important. And I decide what is important, not them. I might be wrong, but I decide. So when the therapy voices are quietly saying just shut up and let us do what we think is best, that's really offensive. I have goals because I've thought really hard about what would be pivotal and open up the world for him. And there are things they were doing that were going well and something snapped. I haven't figured out what it was. I think maybe they did some things that hit at the same time as his (really amazing, big, 1 1/2" in a few months) growth spurt, and it just all seemed really good and came together nicely. It made him look more functional. But then when I was like ok now this is the next step logically, then they still wanted to keep it generic. I can't do that, because I've got to keep moving forward.

But I guess name me the last 4th grader in an autism school who was diagramming sentences and identifying adverbial clauses and what they modify and rearranging sentences to explore how meaning changes and we'll talk. Like it's really cool what he does! He's growing as a PERSON. He made french toast this morning!!! That's so huge. The OT at the autism school was telling me he needed to do 4 step tasks (making slime, that kind of thing) and he's here COOKING with 10-12 step tasks!!! Such a huge difference in expectations and what I'm willing to prepare and make happen. He pulled all the supplies, followed the steps, and then cleaned things up. It was amazing AND yummy.  But that discontinuity, that difference in vision is a lot. The SLP wants to work on social and I'm like no hello I want him to be able to speak in complex sentences (because, so, adverbials, etc.). Complex syntax drives complex thought which allows you to have the conversations and recognize the flow in the social. I'm trying to build his understanding of narrative and she's having him memorize/script social. Pisses me off. I spent how long undoing scripting and that was her vision, for him to memorize social scripts. I swear. 

And the worst part is, I could still be wrong. In their calculus, having all these parts isn't valuable if you don't comply and don't fit in the system and won't work in the system. I guess I'm sorta anti-system and don't care about the system anyway. But that isn't very good preparation for working in the system. He'll be different and he's going to have some holes. He might be able to function well at certain things (ADLs, go on a cruise or to Disney) and really suck at others. Maybe I'm just picking the things I want to win at and want him to be able to do. I want him to be able to travel, because I think it makes life good. To me it's important and something I want to win at. That's my next thing, to figure out how to cruise with him. He's a little freaked out and thinks all of mexico is as unsafe as the caravan images he's been seeing on the news.

[PeterPan]

Went to an AMAZING talk at OCALICON (autism conference) on working with gifted+ASD students and the speakers referred to an article on reading comprehension that I wanted. Here's the link in case anyone wants to read it. They basically are doing in their gifted+ASD program a lot of the same stuff we're doing here on the boards (Zones, etc. etc.). They step up how they do things, using more analysis, etc., but it's still the basics. They're working on Interoception with some of the kids, yes. And they said their two biggest areas to intervene on were SEL (social emotional learning) and reading comprehension. SEL is the term that's all the rage now.

http://plo-psikologi.ugm.ac.id/images/foto/28FEDC50B2EE9106-27991.pdf

[Lecka]

Wow, this looks great!  

[PeterPan]

4 hours ago, Lecka said:

Wow, this looks great!  

OCALICON was mind-boggling too. I haven't bothered to go to a homeschool convention in several years because ds was just so on his own planet for how to be approached. It was amazing to walk into a hall and be able to go to session after session that all applied to him. I went to sessions on using legos for narrative language and math and... sessions on working with gifted + ASD. Sessions on challenging behaviors. I went to jampacked sessions on just a zillion tips. They had sessions on OTs and BCBAs and all their best stuff for schedules, waiting, manips, supports. And they would bring stuff and give it away. And they had the authors of lots of books, so you could ask questions and see how they got there. They were sometimes explaining their new books and upcoming materials. It was AMAZING. 

It made it all come together, like OH THAT WAS HOW IT WAS SUPPOSED TO LOOK!!! And, drum roll, I finally realized it costs around $200 to be RBT trained. I don't know why I never thought to do it myself. Just so much to get in the loop on. And they had ways they would say things and tips for how to handle stuff. There was this one phrase someone suggested "I'm ready when you're ready." Like we don't have to fight, you can melt down, do what you need to, and I'll be ready when you're ready. 

So I'm kinda turbocharged now, with more sense I'm on the right track. Went to a Ruth Aspy talk on some new work they've done on outcomes where they challenged people to reimagine how to get in enough hours on key areas (conversation, etc.) to build proficiency. Then we could ask her questions and she clued us in on a new book that she co-authored on conversation. She said the SLP behind it has kids with BEAUTIFUL conversation, so I'm all psyched. We'll finish out what we're using now (which is good, like it a lot, very age-appropriate!) and then go into that. And just to hear her SNORT at the popsicle sticks, like dude that was totally worth the $75. Well not really, but it was still good. 

We get so in our bubbles with our resources, so it was just this step into this other universe of MORE resources. And then to go ok, if you seemed unhappy with one set of resources you have, that's ok because other people think the same thing and have developed more options and it's fine to move on.

[Lecka]

I have heard so many good things about OCALICON.  So cool you were able to attend!

[Lecka]

I read the article.  It makes me feel better about my son’s progress, lol.  He’s working on predictions and generating predictions right now.  He does generate some questions when we read now (with no prompts) and about half the time they are good (about the same as what I am wondering about) and about half the time they do not make a lot of sense (about a detail that isn’t really pertinent).  

A lot from the article seemed familiar to me, though, lol.  

I don’t have official numbers on it, but I have felt like there is a maybe 2-year gap between reading level and comprehension level..... it was very interesting to see that for most of the kids on one of the charts.  

I really do believe that every bit of progress is worthwhile, but my goodness, it is so slow and hard-won.  

[Kanin]

10 hours ago, PeterPan said:

So I'm kinda turbocharged now, with more sense I'm on the right track.

Hurrah!

[NorthernBeth]

13 hours ago, PeterPan said:

 

It made it all come together, like OH THAT WAS HOW IT WAS SUPPOSED TO LOOK!!! And, drum roll, I finally realized it costs around $200 to be RBT trained. I don't know why I never thought to do it myself. Just so much to get in the loop on. And they had ways they would say things and tips for how to handle stuff. There was this one phrase someone suggested "I'm ready when you're ready." Like we don't have to fight, you can melt down, do what you need to, and I'll be ready when you're ready.  

 

I probably missed it on one of the pages, but what is RBT?  

[Lecka]

It is a certification in the United States for ABA.  It is someone who works with kids with autism.  

https://www.bacb.com/rbt/

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, NorthernBeth said:

I probably missed it on one of the pages, but what is RBT?  

It used to be that a behaviorist (later certified as a BCBA) would just hire workers or the school would hire paraprofessionals. No minimum or training requirements, just high school diploma and alive. The RBT is a training cert and the person can work under a BCBA. It's 40 hours and can be done online inexpensively. What I'm finding at these conventions is that schools are having ALL their paras trained, just swoosh. Raises the bar to a baseline on understanding data collection and basics of interaction.

My theory was just it couldn't hurt. There are no restrictions on who can do it, and it's usually around $200.

https://www.fit.edu/continuing-education/applied-behavior-analysis/ This place was at OCALCON but this list has more options. https://www.appliedbehavioranalysisprograms.com/certification/rbt/online-training-providers/  There seems to be some variety in how much feedback or interaction there is, etc., but I think the standards make sure everything gets covered no matter what.

Edited November 21, 2018 by PeterPan

[PeterPan]

Well this is awful. Ds is reading the Branches Dragon Masters books on his kindle when he could be playing apps. 😁

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

 

Edited November 24, 2018 by PeterPan

[Lecka]

Awesome!  Those are great books 🙂

[Kanin]

Yay!! Love those Dragon Masters books!!!

Your DS is so adorable ☺️

[PeterPan]

Well when your son comes out WITH A BOOK in his hands, you don't get in the middle of that!! LOL He actually did!!! And it's not a Dragon Masters ebook with simple syntax but a print book with more text!! It's something about WW1 I think, and it's one of those Timberdoodle style, heavy on the graphics. Still, he came out with a book!!!

He read Dragon Masters for several hours last night. I bought him the rest of the kindle versions, through book #13, but book 6 is missing on amazon, go figure. There's another series with squirrels that looked similar (swords, etc.) so I got him three of those too. At $2.99 and the ability to use digital credits from your $1 promotions on amazon, I can afford books for him, hehe. 

So this is CRAZY. After being so frustrated for so long, it's finally happening. I definitely think it's the syntax work. Every time we've pushed language his spontaneous reading has gone forward, and now we're pushing his syntax really hard (diagramming compound, complex sentences, working through the Rothstein books on syntax, etc.) and it's coming together. It's like we had to make words mean something and then we had to build those words into sentences that meant something. So now he's actually reading!! Heavy picture support, but we'll take it. Considering the extent of the disability, we'll take it. I think 2 hours a day with pictures is better than no hours a day. And with the way he's going now, I think I could get him to 2-3 hours a day just by keeping him stocked. He's finally figuring it out, realizing he could enjoy it. He has been SO BORED because he couldn't read. Reading was a natural outlet for his brain energy and curiosity and enthusiasm, and not to have that has cause all kinds of behaviors and problems. Think about what a kid does 2-3 hours a day if he's NOT reading like he should? It means he's on apps or lining up toys. So this is really good. So psyched.

Oh, I ordered Drawing a Blank with the AAPC sale.                                  Drawing a Blank                              They have another book on literacy that I didn't order only because I can get it for free through the OCALI lending library, score. But right now with everything from AAPC 40% off plus another 10% for signing in, the deals are phenomenal. DaB is focused on hyperlexia and explores functional definitions of hyperlexia. Remember I had been saying that ds was a dyslexic hyperlexic, and people were like no you can't say that, hyperlexia is always little kids who learn early and don't comprehend. But DaB explores our situation directly and says kids of ANY age who begin reading who have autism-driven word-calling (complete lack of comprehension due to language disability) should be labeled hyperlexic. It explores whether hyperlexia should be added as an SLD and tries to differentiate it from an SLD of reading comprehension. 

So I don't know how technical DaB will be, but I was ready just to have a mental conversation with someone who has been down the same road. It has been funky weird, that's for sure. 

[Lecka]

That sounds exciting!

I have read the "Last Firehawk" series to my son.  He loves them.  The next book in the series comes out in January.  

I have looked at Drawing a Blank, it looks good!  But it's hard to know what it will be like, if it will be information I have heard before.  Or if it might be too advanced for my son.  I have had a little bit of an impression it might be too advanced for him.

Here, things are coming together, but with Level 2 readers.  He can read Elephant and Piggie, and FlyGuy, and sound great, use expression, everything.  Then Level 2 readers are challenging but not too hard.  I have got a lot of them, and I'm expecting him to be in them for a long time.  There are vocabulary words that come up in Level 2 readers, and he struggles with a lot of 2-syllable words, and 3-syllable words he usually struggles with.  So -- Level 2 is a good level.  But he is sounding good a lot of the time.  

For listening comprehension, he is doing surprisingly well with Geronimo Stilton!  He doesn't have awesome comprehension, but he has good-enough comprehension, and there are always things to talk about.  

You might look at them.  They are wordier than Branches books, they have some longer sentences and a lot more adjective, and there are more idioms, so those things are harder.... but they have nice color pictures on every page.  They are very appealing to my son.

They had been harder for him than some books with less pictures, but I got to a point he wasn't doing that well with books without pictures, but now he can do Geronimo Stilton.  I think they are harder than early Magic Tree House books, but easier than the later books.  I wanted to read him the Merlin MIssions, and he liked the first two, but the third one got too hard for him to listen to.  

He does not pick up books on his own, but he can sit on his own and read if it is "time to read."  I don't have to sit right by him.  I also believe he reads at his desk in school and isn't just sitting there.... he picks out library books at school and then there are times to sit and read, and I think he does it (and he says he does it)..... in the past I would have objected because I would have thought he was just sitting there and not engaged.  

 

[PeterPan]

Ooo, I'll look at the Geronimo Stilton! I've heard of them but haven't looked at them. He's so fledgling, I figure I'll do everything Branches till we exhaust that, then, if he seems bored, move it up. He was commenting that Last Firehawk series has more words but that it's good. So he's very cognizant that things are hard and that he's working hard.

Yes, DaB is basically about hyperlexia. Autism mom got some credentials, worked with her ds, and he was hyperlexic. So even though she has credentials, she's not trying to be exhaustive for ALL the issues. The Quality Literacy book would be more in that vein. Quality Literacy Instruction for Students With Autism Spectrum Disorders OCALI has it, so that's how I was hoping to get a copy. Checkout is 3-4 weeks, so I'll have to be fast.

21 minutes ago, Lecka said:

he picks out library books at school and then there are times to sit and read,

Yes, exactly! That's what I wanted to be able to work toward, using reading for leisure, for independent work, for breaks. The worker had tried to do that a couple years ago, and I wasn't pleased with how it went. Now he has more ability to actually do it, to interact with the books and glean something he'll find interesting, so it's a task that will make sense.

[PeterPan]

Ok, I looked up those GS books. They're VERY $$$$ on kindle!! Gotta see if the library can do them. I can't be paying $10 per book, mercy. 

Score, our library does have them! So are they a sequential series or stand-alone books that could be read in any order? He's getting kinda rigid on series things, so it would be easier if they were stand alone. That way if a book is not available, we could jump around. He got burnt on the Amulet series because he missed some essential plot parts and couldn't figure out why stuff was happening later. I had returned the earlier books to the library, so he couldn't go back and figure out where his comprehension dropped. Now he's a bit freaky about it. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by PeterPan

[Lecka]

The main books are stand-alone.  

There is another series with him that are longer books.  I ordered book 1 of it from eBay to give it a try.  I am not sure if they are in order or not.  

https://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Fantasy-Geronimo-Stilton/dp/0545980259