Jump to content

Menu

Spelling Problems


Momof3plus
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi, my new 2nd grader has been doing Sequential Spelling, he's on day 80 and whilst it had been going well, we seem to have regressed. He doesn't seem to have retained many of the word patterns from the earlier lessons.  When he's asked to write a word such as 'soak', he's spelling it as 'soke', but when I prompt him to really think about it he goes through all the possible combinations and eventually gets it right.  I feel like he needs a lot more practice than what Sequential Spelling offers and we're moving too fast. What can I do to provide more practice? This programme already involves a fair bit of writing especially when combined with WWE etc. What Spelling programmes are there that teach to mastery and provide more practice? Please don't say AAS as although I know it has great reviews I really don't want to go back to the beginning, plus its expensive and takes time to teach.

x

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spalding. You can see that AAS has its roots in Spalding :-) but Spalding only requires a one-time purchase of the manual (Writing Road to Reading) and a set of phonogram cards, around $40; has no "levels"; and children who already have some reading and spelling skills can zoom ahead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like he needs to do dictation. We used SWR (sister to WRTR, grandparent of AAS), but it was dictation, just lots of dictation every day, that got us from sorta knowing to actually fluent and using it. SWR has placement tests and they'll crank out an overall spelling level and a mastery level. Dictation bumped her *mastery* score and could bring it up closer to her overall spelling level. (Mastery was first missed on the placement test whereas overall spelling score was how many total you got right, including later harder words, etc.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi, thanks for all the replies. I’m currently re-looking at SWR and AAS. SWR looks like a lot of work but I do like the idea of dictation. He needs something that has constant review built in. 

Also, I may sound a bit dim but how does a child know that a word is spelled with one particular vowel team and not another, eg soak and not soke? Is it just down to visual memory? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sequential Spelling really didn't work for my kids either. We went to AAS, and honestly it didn't take any more time than going through SS had taken us--you just work for 15-20 minutes. 

49 minutes ago, Momof3plus said:

Also, I may sound a bit dim but how does a child know that a word is spelled with one particular vowel team and not another, eg soak and not soke? Is it just down to visual memory? 

 

For O-E vs. OA, yes, it's mainly a visual difference, plus O-E is much more common than OA. Learning them incrementally and reinforcing them in multiple ways can help kids master them. Many patterns do have rules though (for example, we don't use OA at the end of words for the long O sound.) Good spellers tend to use a variety of strategies: phonetic, rules-based, visual, and morphemic. AAS walks them through how to use the different strategies and then how to analyze words.

 

7 hours ago, PeterPan said:

We used SWR (sister to WRTR, grandparent of AAS),

Well, to be technical, they are more like cousins ?. AAS is Orton-Gillingham based, not Spalding-based. O-G came before Spalding--Spalding is an off-shoot of O-G but goes in some directions that O-G programs don't. Both can be good, just different! 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, MerryAtHope said:

For O-E vs. OA, yes, it's mainly a visual difference, plus O-E is much more common than OA. Learning them incrementally and reinforcing them in multiple ways can help kids master them. Many patterns do have rules though (for example, we don't use OA at the end of words for the long O sound.) Good spellers tend to use a variety of strategies: phonetic, rules-based, visual, and morphemic. AAS walks them through how to use the different strategies and then how to analyze words.

 

Thanks that’s good to know. I think that’s the problem, he’s not getting enough ways to use the words in order to cement them in his memory. 

 

I read recently that its possible to go through the first level of AAS pretty quickly with an older child, would you agree? 

Mill have a look at words their way also, I’ve not heard of this. 

 

Xx

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im second guessing myself as to what we need! Do I really need a programme like AAS or do I just need to give him more practice/review using the words he’s learnt? Is there plenty of review of the words learned in AAS? 

Would a workbook type approach work? eg. ‘Fill in the blanks’ and ‘Find the correct spelling’ etc... (I’ve previously stayed away from misspelled words as I think it’s confusing). 

I dont want want to spend a lot of time and money if it’s not going to work. I was taught with simple random word lists that we had to memorise and tested on each week and I’m a pretty natural speller. However my son doesn’t seem to have a great visual memory, he’s much more auditory and although he loves to follow rules and know rules he can get confused easily. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You might want to look at Apples and Pears. The entire program is viewable online. The teacher book has the lesson material and the student workbook follows its directions. It has been the only spelling program that has helped my kids who cannot easily retain how to spell.  https://www.soundfoundations.co.uk/en_US/product-category/apples-pears-en_us/ (AAS did not work for my worst spellers and dictation was disastrous.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

You might want to look at Apples and Pears. The entire program is viewable online. The teacher book has the lesson material and the student workbook follows its directions. It has been the only spelling program that has helped my kids who cannot easily retain how to spell.  https://www.soundfoundations.co.uk/en_US/product-category/apples-pears-en_us/ (AAS did not work for my worst spellers and dictation was disastrous.)

Hi, I’ve looked at apples and pears and whilst it does look good, the tracing is in manuscript. My kids do cursive (Abeka), is there another way to use the programme without using manuscript? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We did 4 levels of AAS. The first 3 levels had most of the rules. The 4th level was mostly memorising words with similar patterns. Also the words were quite easy. My DS9 could spell them all. I decided not to continue with levels 5-7. After completing 4 levels my son has similar problems to your son because it all comes down to memorising words. There is no rule that tells you why in one word it's a long o and in the other it's oa. I have a workbook that has lists of words and some rules (Spelling Age 7-9 Practice Workbook).  We do the workbook. Then I test my son (on a different day) to see how many words he can spell. The words that he misspells go onto the list I create on the site called Spelling City (I use the free version. By the way there are tons of lists there, including all the levels of AAS). Then I make up sentences with those words and dictate them (3-4 sentences per day). It works for us. 

Edited by cupcake333
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would try the combination of Spelling Plus and Spelling Dictation by Susan C. Anthony.

https://www.amazon.com/Spelling-Plus-Words-toward-Success/dp/187947820X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1533853999&sr=8-1&keywords=spelling+plus+by+susan+anthony

https://www.amazon.com/Dictation-Resource-Book-Susan-Anthony/dp/1879478218/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1533853999&sr=8-3&keywords=spelling+plus+by+susan+anthony

CBD also has them with samples, and she has samples on her website.  K-6 spelling in one book, words organized by BOTH pattern and spelling rule, companion book has dictation sentences for the words.  It also teaches the most frequent 1,000 words, which account for 90% of any running text.

http://www.susancanthony.com/bk/sp.html

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A newly second grade child substituting "soke" for "soak" sounds like a fairly age appropriate spelling mistake to me. It is a phonetic spelling of the word 'soak' so it does show that he was trying to apply the rules he knows. He just went with the wrong one which I would just chalk up to lack of experience. There are some sound combinations that it really just comes down to lots of exposure and experience before it becomes second nature. Lots of reading, lots of writing, many many exposures before the word becomes part of their permanent memory. I would be more worried if the spelling he chose was not phonetic at all and just seemed random or if he was 2 - 3 years older and still making the same mistakes.

If you are having more issues with Sequential Spelling and just feel like it is time to change things up, then by all means find a new program. You mentioned SWR looks complicated and you are absolutely right, it LOOKS way more complicated than it actually is. I've been using SWR with my kids since my grown children were little and we just started with my youngest. I've never been to a training seminar. I'm sure it is helpful for some people but I cringe when I hear people say it is necessary. I honestly don't  believe it is necessary, just nice if you are inclined to do so. You can absolutely implement the program without a seminar. I've been doing it for years.

Another program you might look into is Logic of English, not the lower levels that are designated by letters (Level A, Level B...) but the book for the upper level I think it is actually called "Unlocking the Logic of English" or something like that. A lot of people find LOE a lot easier to implement than SWR.

One last suggestion, you might check your library for The Writing Road To Reading. IMO, the easiest edition for those new to Spalding to understand is the 4th Edition. You absolute do not need the newest edition of The Writing Road To Reading. A good used copy of a previous edition or a borrowed copy from the library will work fine to just try it out and see if it will work for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Momof3plus said:

Im second guessing myself as to what we need! Do I really need a programme like AAS or do I just need to give him more practice/review using the words he’s learnt? Is there plenty of review of the words learned in AAS? 

 

AAS has a customizable review with the word cards, so you review as much or as little as your student needs, and only focusing on the things that need practice. I had students with significant spelling struggles (one spelled ask "aic" in 4th grade), and we really made good use of that review box! 

You certainly can try what you have with more practice/review worked in. I'm sure for some kids that would work. My kids really needed and benefitted from AAS.

Someone mentioned there not being a lot of rules in Level 4--that level actually does include more words that rely on visual patterns, but there are more rules in levels 5 and up (in fact, one of the rules in level 6 helped me with one of my own frequent spelling bugaboos!). The upper levels also spend more time helping kids learn how to analyze words instead of just telling them what to do--that was really valuable for my kids. I loved the upper levels because in 5 & up, everything starts to come together. All of the foundational concepts and phonograms are in place and you really start to build longer words then. Anyway, not trying to talk you into it, just offering a different perspective!

Edited by MerryAtHope
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sequential Spelling seems a little advanced for a 2nd grader. It was my understanding that it was designed for the 10 and up crowd. Maybe I'm making that up. ?

I do Spelling Workout for 1st-3rd grade. Levels A, B, and C (B, C, and D for my advanced reader.) No prep, 15 min lessons for the win! And mirrors our public school spelling experience you mentioned. I am a natural speller, too. Then in 4th grade we make the switch to Sequential Spelling.

I ignore retention during the Spelling Workout years. It's about laying a foundation. So my current 2nd grader is doing Spelling Workout B and the workbook style has lots of hand holding and just gently practices groups of words that follow a particular spelling rule. If he doesn't seem to be retaining a particular rule, I just remind him as it comes up and keep going. On the final test day, I give as much coaching as he needs and tons of praise. Like if I call out "soak"  I will say "think about the silent vowel this week." And we correct if needed before moving on to the next word. Which would probably be something like "foal" and I'd say "well this is great now you know exactly where to put that sneaky silent vowel." Lots of coaching as needed. I have found more than being able to recall how to spell words correctly, it helps their reading level advance. 

Then when they start Seqential Spelling in 4th grade, their spelling takes off! They are able to make connections and really see how words are built. At least, that's what happened with dd and I'm hoping happens with ds. He is now coming to me to ask how to spell words when he is writing and drawing in his free time. A few months ago, he didn't care if words were spelled correctly or not.

Dictation was a disaster here, too. We tried the Susan C Anthony style, we tried Spelling City. We tried Spelling Power. Uggh. It was all too complicated. The simple workbook style in the early years finally did the trick. No stress, no fuss.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, MrsRobinson said:

Sequential Spelling seems a little advanced for a 2nd grader. It was my understanding that it was designed for the 10 and up crowd. Maybe I'm making that up. ?

I do Spelling Workout for 1st-3rd grade. Levels A, B, and C (B, C, and D for my advanced reader.) No prep, 15 min lessons for the win! And mirrors our public school spelling experience you mentioned. I am a natural speller, too. Then in 4th grade we make the switch to Sequential Spelling.

I ignore retention during the Spelling Workout years. It's about laying a foundation. So my current 2nd grader is doing Spelling Workout B and the workbook style has lots of hand holding and just gently practices groups of words that follow a particular spelling rule. If he doesn't seem to be retaining a particular rule, I just remind him as it comes up and keep going. On the final test day, I give as much coaching as he needs and tons of praise. Like if I call out "soak"  I will say "think about the silent vowel this week." And we correct if needed before moving on to the next word. Which would probably be something like "foal" and I'd say "well this is great now you know exactly where to put that sneaky silent vowel." Lots of coaching as needed. I have found more than being able to recall how to spell words correctly, it helps their reading level advance. 

Then when they start Seqential Spelling in 4th grade, their spelling takes off! They are able to make connections and really see how words are built. At least, that's what happened with dd and I'm hoping happens with ds. He is now coming to me to ask how to spell words when he is writing and drawing in his free time. A few months ago, he didn't care if words were spelled correctly or not.

Dictation was a disaster here, too. We tried the Susan C Anthony style, we tried Spelling City. We tried Spelling Power. Uggh. It was all too complicated. The simple workbook style in the early years finally did the trick. No stress, no fuss.

 

This is EXACTLY how I did it with DD. She had years of spelling rule exposure through Spelling Workout and Explode the Code and then developed muscle memory through Sequential Spelling in Grade 4 and 5. DS is a more intuitive speller but we're using the SS lists for cursive practice.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

After much thinking and rethinking and going around in circles and praying, I decided yesterday that I wasnt going to overthink it and I’m just going with a simple workbook style approach. I found one that is used by teachers and homeschoolers alike. 

I think going back to basics and using a simple approach that is very similar to how I learned, will hopefully help him. It includes some lists, rules and very basic dictation and some look, cover write exercises - which is how I remember learning.

I do do really like sequential spelling but I think you’re correct Mrs Robinson et al. It’s better suited to future use. I still think he’s benefitted from SS, oddly he can spell some quite long words which I wouldn’t have thought he’d remember. 

Anyway, for now, I feel at ease with my decision, praying it works! 

Xxx

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...