"What can I use for homeschooling that is free and all online and requires no parent interaction and reads outloud becaus the child can't read"

[EmseB]

1 hour ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

 

Unless they've been taught to type a summation, which my kids have. And it depends on how a student was taught to study with notes.

Ah, okay, I thought you were not talking about summations but the fact that they were able to type faster than write so they could type more of what their prof was saying. Because the article does note this about typing notes vs. writing them, which is what I was responding to in your post.

But I think a lot of the research is showing that it doesn't matter how you study with the notes, but what happens in your brain when writing them vs. typing. 

There are always people who don't fall into the research parameters, I suppose. ?

[HomeschoolingHearts&Minds]

On 7/29/2018 at 6:00 PM, MarieCurie said:

I wonder if some this comes from the commercials for K12. I see commercials that say online school free in most states. So parents start to think "hey I can just put my kid in front of the computer for 7 hours a day and they'll learn everything they need."

 

This ad from Alpha Omega peddling Monarch as an "Instant Homeschool, just add student" has landed in my inbox several times in recent months---it seems every homeschool blog I subscribe to is getting paid to blast it to their list. It makes me so mad. If the homeschool curriculum providers are advertising this way, it is no wonder people think they can homeschool without investing any of themselves.

[Happy2BaMom]

I agree with the OP. I'm in my 9th year of hsing (only dd now, ds is a rising sophomore at the local ps) and I see A LOT more of the same type of questions on local support group pages (and I see a lot more marginally-educated hs children as well). We put ds in high school for several reasons, one of them was that we did not want him surrounded by the nearly-universal low standards of the high-school hsed teens here. And all of us were very happy with ds' freshman year (he is pre-IB).  

Homeschooling is devolving. It really is. I once read something about the life cycle of "movements" (this article wasn't about hsing). If I remember right, the first wave of a movement is started by the visionaries, who are fed-up and then get fired-up. The movement develops energy, life, positive results, enthusiasm. Stories of success start going round. More and more people, seeking to be part of something exciting and successful, start to jump in....but then, over time what happens is that results start to get watered down. The following waves of recruits don't share the same vision, let alone the same commitment or follow-through, necessary to ensure continued positive energy and successful results. Eventually, the movement peters out and dwindles away, as mediocrity replaces excellence and uninteresting results become the norm. How closely hsing will follow this life cycle is yet unknown, but it doesn't look promising. 

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Happy2BaMom

[Happy2BaMom]

On 7/29/2018 at 6:54 PM, kitten18 said:

I understand the frustration but what this increase says to me is that people are frustrated and desperate to get their kids out of public school. 

 

Perhaps, but there isn't evidence to support your view (and there isn't evidence against it)....we don't know, we only know that a lot more people want to homeschool without having to spend time or money homeschooling. 

Edited to add: my point is that the reason doesn't really matter. If people are desperate to get their kids out of public school, that doesn't (or shouldn't) automatically equate to "I don't have any time or money to spend homeschooling my child." Yes, sometimes, people have to pitch-hit for a few months if they have to pull their child in an emergency situation. That still doesn't equate to "what's free, online & able to be done by my child completely independently?". And the posts I've seen aren't "how do my husband and I arrange schedules to accommodate home-schooling our child/ren?" They're "how do we homeschool without having to invest anything at all?" And too many answers are along the lines of "anything is better than public school". It's frustrating. I don't align with so many of the values that are being expressed. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Happy2BaMom

[Dmmetler]

3 hours ago, EmseB said:

It seems counter intuitive, but evidence indicates writing notes seems to lead to better retention than typing. There is something about putting pen to paper that helps our brains remember things better than typing them.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-learning-secret-don-t-take-notes-with-a-laptop/

Typing is, of course, a valuable skill, but not necessarily for note-taking. I also think learning to type is not that difficult at older ages (says the person who learned 100wpm via AIM in my mid-teens and watched my dad learn in his 40s), whereas developing good handwriting is more difficult past the elementary years.

Not necessary for some people. If I am concentrating on writing, my ears stop listening and I miss a large amount of what is said. I can type in real time and summarize, and hear a lot more of what is going on. Blanket bans and statements like “it’s not necessary for note taking” bother me just like straw bans grate on those who require straws to drink. It means taking something that is currently a universal accommodation that I can take advantage of without having to point out “look, I’m disabled” and makes it something special that stands out. 

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, Happy2BaMom said:

I agree with the OP. I'm in my 9th year of hsing (only dd now, ds is a rising sophomore at the local ps) and I see A LOT more of the same type of questions on local support group pages (and I see a lot more marginally-educated hs children as well). We put ds in high school for several reasons, one of them was that we did not want him surrounded by the nearly-universal low standards of the high-school hsed teens here. And all of us were very happy with ds' freshman year (he is pre-IB).  

Homeschooling is devolving. It really is. I once read something about the life cycle of "movements" (this article wasn't about hsing). If I remember right, the first wave of a movement is started by the visionaries, who are fed-up and then get fired-up. The movement develops energy, life, positive results, enthusiasm. Stories of success start going round. More and more people, seeking to be part of something exciting and successful, start to jump in....but then, over time what happens is that results start to get watered down. The following waves of recruits don't share the same vision, let alone the same commitment or follow-through, necessary to ensure continued positive energy and successful results. Eventually, the movement peters out and dwindles away, as mediocrity replaces excellence and uninteresting results become the norm. How closely hsing will follow this life cycle is yet unknown, but it doesn't look promising. 

 

Yes, that is exactly it. That life cycle of movements seems accurate to me, and does apply to hsing in my observation. 

[Guest]

BTW, due to this post, I am paying more attention to the FB posts and, just in the day since the OP put up this post, I have seen examples of everything mentioned in this thread. There was the lady railing against the “bullying” teacher who corrected her child’s papers. (Sentiment: Teachers are universally awful. Public school ruined her child.) There is a lady asking what is the “best Math and Language arts curriculum”. No apparent experience with homeschooling at all, just “tell me what to buy.” One lady is asking what I perceive as an honest question about how many hours of “direct, sit down work” she can expect to be doing, and how many days/week and months/year. One person responding said how “2 hours a day is good” and then she states that even her fifteen yo only does about 2 hrs a day. 

It is a mess. I can barely stand to see some of the responses. 

[EmseB]

30 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

Not necessary for some people. If I am concentrating on writing, my ears stop listening and I miss a large amount of what is said. I can type in real time and summarize, and hear a lot more of what is going on. Blanket bans and statements like “it’s not necessary for note taking” bother me just like straw bans grate on those who require straws to drink. It means taking something that is currently a universal accommodation that I can take advantage of without having to point out “look, I’m disabled” and makes it something special that stands out. 

 

First, you misread me. I didn't say "not necessary," I said, "not necessarily," meaning that current research suggests typing may not necessarily be the best way to take notes. That's hardly an absolutist statement and leaves room for exactly what you point out, that it may still work better for some people like yourself.

The point is that research suggests something. It's not meant to other people, and who knows about the methodology. It was just something I've read about lately that points out a place where the use of technology might do the opposite of what one thinks it might do.

I'm not making any moral judgements here, just posting some interesting research that indicates handwriting and cursive may yet still be valuable for some despite the speed advantage of typing. I can't control the research or the brain science, and I'm not trying to other anyone by posting a link to an article about it.

[SeaConquest]

1 hour ago, Happy2BaMom said:

I agree with the OP. I'm in my 9th year of hsing (only dd now, ds is a rising sophomore at the local ps) and I see A LOT more of the same type of questions on local support group pages (and I see a lot more marginally-educated hs children as well). We put ds in high school for several reasons, one of them was that we did not want him surrounded by the nearly-universal low standards of the high-school hsed teens here. And all of us were very happy with ds' freshman year (he is pre-IB).  

Homeschooling is devolving. It really is. I once read something about the life cycle of "movements" (this article wasn't about hsing). If I remember right, the first wave of a movement is started by the visionaries, who are fed-up and then get fired-up. The movement develops energy, life, positive results, enthusiasm. Stories of success start going round. More and more people, seeking to be part of something exciting and successful, start to jump in....but then, over time what happens is that results start to get watered down. The following waves of recruits don't share the same vision, let alone the same commitment or follow-through, necessary to ensure continued positive energy and successful results. Eventually, the movement peters out and dwindles away, as mediocrity replaces excellence and uninteresting results become the norm. How closely hsing will follow this life cycle is yet unknown, but it doesn't look promising. 

 

 

Sounds like the story of America at the moment.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

 

Sounds like the story of America at the moment.

Or our political parties...

 

[MistyMountain]

I saw this in real life with a meeting for beginning homeschooling parents interested in finding more about a homeschooling charter. I was the only one asking questions. Several parents were asking if they had online curriculum the kid could do on their own. Several made comments about not wanting to teach and were happy to hear when he said you do not have to. Luckily it did seem that they were not 6 year olds who could not read but it was kids having trouble at their previous schools. One was at least there because the kid wanted to homeschool and the kid had a plan on what they were wanting to do because they had career goals. 

[Lecka]

I have a relative who went with an online charter  for her daughter for high school.  Her daughter complained about high school and had a great attitude about doing the online charter.  The mom thought it would be great.  

In retrospect — of course the daughter went out with her boyfriend while her mom was at work, and told her mom she was getting her schoolwork done, for as long as she could get away with it.  

But there was a big undercurrent from the online charter, that the problem was with the public school, and that the students were getting distracted by school drama that wouldn’t be an issue at home.

It sounds right that home would be more wholesome and lack the negative influence of other kids, but in practice my relative still worked and so her daughter was not supervised during the day.

I can understand why people think it is a good idea, though.  It comes across like it will be a good idea.  But I think it is predictably a bad idea for a lot of kids, it was for my relative.  It is just so easy to think it will all be different, when it’s more predictable that it will be pretty similar.  

 

[mommyoffive]

On 7/30/2018 at 6:36 AM, Bluegoat said:

It occurs to me - I wonder what they see their kids getting in school in terms of one on one attention or even directed teaching?

 

Yes.  I am not going to debate the pros and cons of both.  But we just got done with summer school and talking to the kids there about what some classes where.  7 grade math is just Khan academy. 

When I was in 7th or 8th grade math at a PS the teacher never talked to us the whole year.  Just put the page numbers on the board.  Done. 

I don't think in all situations is PS better than homeschool.  

I haven't come across this at all in my years.  I am not on FB could that be it?  The only coop we do you have to be there and be part of it.    I don't talk much about things any more because the parents I know are more experienced than I am with hs.  I feel like we talked about what we were doing when we were all starting out in the first few years.  Now everyone has a path their are on. 

We belong to a public charter and it is going great for us.  But I am home all day long.  There are a lot of online classes for the kids to take plus we do our own studies too.   We school everyday.  Our own stuff when not doing the M-F thing with the public charter.  The PC has classes, field trips, and demands online work too.  I think it is great thing for us.  

Maybe some people are doing that?  Doing school everyday, but for only a few hours each day?    Or maybe they are not counting everything that would count at school?  

But I am sure that there are some people that are totally abusing HS just like there are people abusing PS.  

I could see how you could work F/t or p/t from home and do homeschooling too, but you would still have to put in time or oversee some of it.  

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

 

Yes.  I am not going to debate the pros and cons of both.  But we just got done with summer school and talking to the kids there about what some classes where.  7 grade math is just Khan academy. 

When I was in 7th or 8th grade math at a PS the teacher never talked to us the whole year.  Just put the page numbers on the board.  Done. 

I don't think in all situations is PS better than homeschool.  

I haven't come across this at all in my years.  I am not on FB could that be it?  The only coop we do you have to be there and be part of it.    I don't talk much about things any more because the parents I know are more experienced than I am with hs.  I feel like we talked about what we were doing when we were all starting out in the first few years.  Now everyone has a path their are on. 

We belong to a public charter and it is going great for us.  But I am home all day long.  There are a lot of online classes for the kids to take plus we do our own studies too.   We school everyday.  Our own stuff when not doing the M-F thing with the public charter.  The PC has classes, field trips, and demands online work too.  I think it is great thing for us.  

Maybe some people are doing that?  Doing school everyday, but for only a few hours each day?    Or maybe they are not counting everything that would count at school?  

But I am sure that there are some people that are totally abusing HS just like there are people abusing PS.  

I could see how you could work F/t or p/t from home and do homeschooling too, but you would still have to put in time or oversee some of it.  

Maybe, but I don’t think it’s the case with the people being discussed in this thread. 

For example, I know a very seriously-minded homeschool mom with 5 kids, whose older kids are in an accredited online program. Everything I see indicates that this is very rigorous and a TON of work, both for the kids in the program and for the parent(s) doing their part at home. These folks are not abusing hs at all. If anything, I don’t know how mom will be able to keep this pace as her kids age. 

The folks I see who are, IMO, ruining hsing for the rest of us do not understand learning/development/knowledge acquisition. They point to people like Abraham Lincoln and Thomas Edison and think that is what naturally happens when kids are not hampered by those nasty old boring textbooks and evil assessments. I spent a little time swimming in the Unschooling waters and saw a bazillion posts falsly reassuring parents that any minute now, their child’s latent genius was just going to blossom. I feel that I caused some issues for one of my kids just for the few years that I waffled on how much I needed to require - and I was not an unschooler, just “relaxed.” 

I do think if you haven’t seen it yet, it is because you aren’t connected with a community of new-to-homeschooling people. From this thread, it seems like the FB local and state groups are chock full of these newcomers. It does seem to be the trajectory of homeschooling now. 

[mom2scouts]

19 hours ago, Scarlett said:

  My son was also in a public charter the entire way 1-12.  K12 is the curriculum which seems like a decent one to me.  I was HEAVILY involved in his daily work...teaching every subject until he was probably in 6th or 7th grade...and even then although hew as much more independent I had to double check that he was actually getting his work done.  And see if he was remembering all assignments etc..  

 

The NCAA won't even accept coursework from K12 because it doesn't meet their requirements for high school coursework. I think these online public charters, which in my state are specifically NOT considered homeschooling, have totally confused people and made them believe homeschooling will be free and easy. People think homeschooling means you get your books and computer for free and put your kids in front of a computer with an online teacher for every subject. One father who used an online school asked me over and over and over about where I went for testing or if I attended the group activities and I could not convince him that homeschooling was completely different than what he was doing. Once, when school was repeatedly cancelled for bad weather, schools started sending home online schoolwork. My dd's dance instructor said, "Now we're doing the same thing you do!" and was surprised when I told her we don't do most of our work on the computer.

[SeaConquest]

In tandem with the issues mentioned above, the other thing that worries me is that the public mostly has no idea about the types of activities/products many of the charter schools in CA will fund. You want to study the physics of roller coasters? Great, the charter will pay for Disneyland annual passes. How about cooking? The charter will pay for cooking utensils/equipment. How about genetics? The charter will pay for 23 and Me. How about gardening? The charter will pay for supplies. How about the marine life in CA? The charter will pay for a trip to Catalina. How about summer camps? Sure. I personally just spent $500 in charter Monopoly money on strategy games for my kids -- things I normally would have given as Hanukkah gifts are now paid for by the charter. If you can make it sound remotely educational, the charter school will pay for it, and I am afraid that the gravy train will dry up real quick once the public and legislators find out what is going on. And, as so many people are moving to charters, my sense is that it is only a matter of time.

Edited August 1, 2018 by SeaConquest

[Scarlett]

33 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

In tandem with the issues mentioned above, the other thing that worries me is that the public mostly has no idea about the types of activities/products many of the charter schools in CA will fund. You want to study the physics of roller coasters? Great, the charter will pay for Disneyland annual passes. How about cooking? The charter will pay for cooking utensils/equipment. How about genetics? The charter will pay for 23 and Me. How about gardening? The charter will pay for supplies. How about the marine life in CA? The charter will pay for a trip to Catalina. How about summer camps? Sure. I personally just spent $500 in charter Monopoly money on strategy games for my kids -- things I normally would have given as Hanukkah gifts are now paid for by the charter. If you can make it sound remotely educational, the charter school will pay for it, and I am afraid that the gravy train will dry up real quick once the public and legislators find out what is going on. And, as so many people are moving to charters, my sense is that it is only a matter of time.

That is not how K12 through the public charters work at all.  

[Happy2BaMom]

32 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

In tandem with the issues mentioned above, the other thing that worries me is that the public mostly has no idea about the types of activities/products many of the charter schools in CA will fund. You want to study the physics of roller coasters? Great, the charter will pay for Disneyland annual passes. How about cooking? The charter will pay for cooking utensils/equipment. How about genetics? The charter will pay for 23 and Me. How about gardening? The charter will pay for supplies. How about the marine life in CA? The charter will pay for a trip to Catalina. How about summer camps? Sure. I personally just spent $500 in charter Monopoly money on strategy games for my kids -- things I normally would have given as Hanukkah gifts are now paid for by the charter. If you can make it sound remotely educational, the charter school will pay for it, and I am afraid that the gravy train will dry up real quick once the public and legislators find out what is going on. And, as so many people are moving to charters, my sense is that it is only a matter of time.

 

WA State used to allow stuff like this through the "Alternative Learning Experience" homeschool-partnership programs. Then word did get out to legislators & they almost deep-sixed the whole thing. Eventually, they just severely limited what people could spend money on and any expenses have to be pre-approved, etc. 

[frogger]

22 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

I don’t know, Alaska has had that for years and though there are limitations on things like sporting equipment and repayment with withdrawal because of some abuses, overall they haven’t been a big issue.  The overall funds allowed are only a fraction of what the public school spends per student.

 

Yes, rather than get rid of charters or correspondence programs they just started having more oversight. Some don't allow field trips to a zoo or even a nature center educational program much less a theme park, definitely no animals but yes, I wonder what public school parents who have to pay all the extra fees would think if they realized.

Also, I'm not sure the majority of Alaskan Charter or Correspondence work the same way as in other states. The school districts have high costs in the rural areas and actually make money from the state off their distance students. Most public school districts have started some form of correspondence program for that reason and they advertise to try to get parents to switch from other districts. If you have a special needs student they will start hounding you early because you are worth more, as a relative of mine found out.  They get the same funding as a regular student but don't have to actually teach the student. I'm pretty sure the Galena School district is greatly helped by taking on a large number of cheap distance education students and only giving a tiny portion back to the student in the form of an allotment and keeping the rest for their district so there would be much hand wringing and/or restructuring if they went away. I do think Alaska has a longer history of distance education since there are often no roads to school in the bush. 

 

Edited to clarify.

Edited August 1, 2018 by frogger

[Katy]

11 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

That is not how K12 through the public charters work at all.  

 

How it works is different in every state.  Definitely don't judge school funding by the way Oklahoma figures it, OK has the most convoluted school funding equation I've ever heard of.

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

How it works is different in every state.  Definitely don't judge school funding by the way Oklahoma figures it, OK has the most convoluted school funding equation I've ever heard of.

Well true, but it wasn't operated that way in AR either.  And funding may be funky but the OK K12 Charter isn't handing students any free money to do any old thing they want.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Scarlett
Oh and not to mention OK K12 charter is funded differently than public schools. They weren't affected at all by the teacher strike.

[SeaConquest]

17 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

That is not how K12 through the public charters work at all.  

 

I am speaking of public, independent charters in California. 

[Scarlett]

4 hours ago, mom2scouts said:

The NCAA won't even accept coursework from K12 because it doesn't meet their requirements for high school coursework. I think these online public charters, which in my state are specifically NOT considered homeschooling, have totally confused people and made them believe homeschooling will be free and easy. People think homeschooling means you get your books and computer for free and put your kids in front of a computer with an online teacher for every subject. One father who used an online school asked me over and over and over about where I went for testing or if I attended the group activities and I could not convince him that homeschooling was completely different than what he was doing. Once, when school was repeatedly cancelled for bad weather, schools started sending home online schoolwork. My dd's dance instructor said, "Now we're doing the same thing you do!" and was surprised when I told her we don't do most of our work on the computer.

NCAA is not my standard for what makes a decent curriculum.  The state charters that use K12 are not all created equal.  But the curriculum---K12-- is good.  Is it the best ever?   As top shelf as what some on this board are teaching?  Probably not.  However, if it is used correctly and the parents are involved a quality education can be achieved.   My son did K12 all the way and he didn't transition to 'on line' stuff until about 7 and 8th grade.  I was hands on with him.  We still did reading aloud, math manipulatives, phonics, history and art projects.  The  K-3rd grade history curriculum was written by SWB.  And K12 can be purchased independently.  Btw, the K12 International Academy is NCAA accredited for those to whom that matters. 

I have seen independent homeschoolers whose parents do a terrible job and those who do a great job.  I have seen public charter 'school at home' kids whose parents are doing a great job and parents who are doing a lousy job.  And I have seen public school kids who have thrived and those who have been failed by their own parents and by the system.  

I do agree that many many people that I run into think all homeschooling is only K12 (OVCA) or Epic.  Those are the two big ones in this state.  I am sure other states have even more as SeaConquest mentioned.  And Yes I realize that these public charters are technically public schools, so I guess I should use the words 'schooling at home.'  Ultimately it comes back to the parent.  The parent/s have to be involved and responsible.  

 

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Scarlett

[vonfirmath]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Ultimately it comes back to the parent.  The parent/s have to be involved and responsible.  

 

 

 

This is what my dad keeps telling me. That education is always the responsibility of the parent and it was a parent's job to stay involved, no matter what option they choose to educate their kid.

[PeachyDoodle]

11 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

 

This is what my dad keeps telling me. That education is always the responsibility of the parent and it was a parent's job to stay involved, no matter what option they choose to educate their kid.

I remember hearing Dave Ramsey saying something like this years ago on his radio show. He was counseling someone with massive debt who insisted that their kids had to go to a pricey private school. He said, "Look, I've had my kids in private schools, I've had them in public schools. What I've learned is: I have to be a parent either way." I think the same applies to homeschooling as well.

Just saw another one on Facebook today. Not a new family this time, but one whose circumstances have changed and really don't seem to be thinking through the pros and cons of continuing to homeschool despite their experience. It's painful to watch.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Happy2BaMom said:

 

WA State used to allow stuff like this through the "Alternative Learning Experience" homeschool-partnership programs. Then word did get out to legislators & they almost deep-sixed the whole thing. Eventually, they just severely limited what people could spend money on and any expenses have to be pre-approved, etc. 

There was a private fund in Maryland, too (might have been just my county? I don’t recall) and it was eliminated. Families who were homeschooling or private schooling could access up to some amount of money for those costs. It may have been per kid or it may have been capped at something like $1500/yr. I personally was very uncomfortable with it because I believe those schooling options are a choice that I agreed to fund. (I did not have a problem with it for needy families, but I felt thos was not meant for me.) 

It is moot now because someone caught wind of that and it was dismantled. 

[Scarlett]

23 minutes ago, Quill said:

There was a private fund in Maryland, too (might have been just my county? I don’t recall) and it was eliminated. Families who were homeschooling or private schooling could access up to some amount of money for those costs. It may have been per kid or it may have been capped at something like $1500/yr. I personally was very uncomfortable with it because I believe those schooling options are a choice that I agreed to fund. (I did not have a problem with it for needy families, but I felt thos was not meant for me.) 

It is moot now because someone caught wind of that and it was dismantled. 

The one here in OK that dss uses is called Epic.  They get to pick from a list of curriculum.  The cost of that is deducted from a learning fund. Dss's curriculum last year cost $125 which I felt was ridiculously inexpensive....and he didn't use any of the balance of his learning fund.  This year I ordered him a lap top---he has to give it back, but it will be nice for him to have it for the school year.  His first year he used the rest of his learning fund for guitar lessons.  That was nice.  A lot of my friends use it for dance.  

[poppy]

Today:
"What would be a good online program to teach my daughter with dyslexia and dysgraphia how to write? Something that is not teacher intensive, as I work and cannot assist her".

FIRST of all: None!! Even kids without a language disability arent' going to learn to write by watching videos.

Second: "teacher intensive"  used to mean "a lot of prep time and high engagement in most lessons".  Not "assist the child at all". 

I can't even.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

54 minutes ago, poppy said:

Today:
"What would be a good online program to teach my daughter with dyslexia and dysgraphia how to write? Something that is not teacher intensive, as I work and cannot assist her".

FIRST of all: None!! Even kids without a language disability arent' going to learn to write by watching videos.

Second: "teacher intensive"  used to mean "a lot of prep time and high engagement in most lessons".  Not "assist the child at all". 

I can't even.

 

I left our state homeschool association's FB group because I couldn't let stuff like this lie, and they did NOT want to hear what I had to say. There were some of my way of thinking, but only a few because the others had long since dropped out. But there were also plenty of people there who were ready to endorse an elementary aged child with learning disabilities being left alone at home, all day long, homeschooling herself while her parents worked. As long as it wasn't public school where nobody learns anything, anyway.

I think if we see it, we have to say something. But we might have to move to where we can't see it, after awhile...

To be fair to the state hs'ing org, due to threats against homeschooling freedom because of stuff like this, the leaders of the org. had definitely started telling people that they must obey the law: Provide an equivalent education (as somewhat defined by Wisconsin v. Yoder as ending up comparable to ps students, as far as knowledge, skills and a chance in life, by high school graduation)…and keep attendance records. They were trying. But that horse was way, way out of the gate. A decade of bad advice given and tolerated has taken its toll.

[maize]

On 7/29/2018 at 1:08 PM, Arctic Mama said:

 

Put the child in school if you aren’t willing or able to consistently educate 4 days a week, ten months a year, or some equivalent split of time that is completed, daily, with short but focused effort.

At age 6?

I didn't.

I didn't stick them in front of a screen either.

Based on their stellar performance in rigorous university summer programs this year I would say my older kids have thrived with enriched unschooling as their primary early years education.

I do tend to agree that most kids would likely be better off in school than in front of a screen expected to work independently at that age.

Edited August 2, 2018 by maize

[maize]

1 hour ago, poppy said:

Today:
"What would be a good online program to teach my daughter with dyslexia and dysgraphia how to write? Something that is not teacher intensive, as I work and cannot assist her".

FIRST of all: None!! Even kids without a language disability arent' going to learn to write by watching videos.

Second: "teacher intensive"  used to mean "a lot of prep time and high engagement in most lessons".  Not "assist the child at all". 

I can't even.

What is the motivation for homeschooling in general in your area?

I don't see this kind of post here.

[Lecka]

There is night and day between people who provide an enriched environment and/or spend time with their kids and/or read and talk with their kids, and people who do not.  

Really.  

It is night and day.

I know two amazing, amazing sets of parents who say things like this, and they are the most enriching, thoughtful parents I have ever been around. 

I don’t know if they don’t realize how much they do, or if they don’t realize how little some people do.  

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, maize said:

At age 6?

I didn't.

I didn't stick them in front of a screen either.

Based on their stellar performance in rigorous university summer programs this year I would say my older kids have thrived with enriched unschooling as their primary early years education.

I do tend to agree that most kids would likely be better off in school than in front of a screen expected to work independently at that age.

At age 6 we didn't due full days either.  Maybe 2 hours a day......but I don't know...at that age our entire life was education....just not much seat work . It sure was fun.  I miss those days so much.  

[ksr5377]

The one on my state homeschooling FB page today:

Looking for an online program for my 8 year old that she can pretty much do all by herself.  She'll be at work with me but I can't be the teacher all the time.  The less it costs the better.

 

I don't understand this at all.  It takes me less than 2 hours to do seat work with my 8 year old.  I feel like replying that they would be better off schooling in the evening.

Edited August 2, 2018 by ksr5377

[Targhee]

2 minutes ago, ksr5377 said:

The one on my state homeschooling FB page today:

Looking for an online program for my 8 year old that she can pretty much do all by herself.  She'll be at work with me but I can't be the teacher all the time.  The less it costs the better.

 

I don't understand this at all.  It takes me less than 2 hours to do seat work with my 8 year old.  I feel like replying that they would be better off schooling in the evening.

You should!

[Happy2BaMom]

1 hour ago, ksr5377 said:

The one on my state homeschooling FB page today:

Looking for an online program for my 8 year old that she can pretty much do all by herself.  She'll be at work with me but I can't be the teacher all the time.  The less it costs the better.

 

I don't understand this at all.  It takes me less than 2 hours to do seat work with my 8 year old.  I feel like replying that they would be better off schooling in the evening

2

 

That just makes me sad....the thought of an 8-year-old who is expected to educate herself by using a boring online program (and it will be boring if it is the sole source of the homeschool education, especially when the sole criterion for selection is "low cost"). And I won't even address the fact that the 8-year-old then has to hang out at her mother's workplace for (most likely) 8 or more hours a day every day where her mother will be otherwise occupied.

 

[Carrie12345]

Like a previous poster's relative, dh's boss had the impression that we get ps books and just learn 'em at home. It was an interesting client dinner for dh, lol.  For one thing, dh can't even verbalize what we do (not that I'm much better at it) AND they were with a client, so how far can you really contradict your boss???

I feel like I fall on the very relaxed end of the spectrum, but that's only if you take away all of the people who believe in idea of learning without teaching. (And I'm not talking about dedicated unschoolers.)  When you add in the no-teaching people, I feel like I'm almost hardcore in comparison!

I'm only directly teaching each of my kids 3 subjects this coming year, and two of them are being combined for my high schoolers. And yet I'm still deep in summer research mode, not only for those 3 subjects, but for carefully cultivated books, movies, toys, activities, opportunities, blah, blah, blah. (Plus planning my co-op classes, because that's part of sustaining my kids' wonderful co-op classes.)  Research and planning, in addition to teaching, is as regular a part of my life as vacuuming, walking the dog, buying groceries and pumping gas. 

I don't believe that everyone should homeschool the way I do, but I'm becoming more and more convinced that it should be a requirement (ethical, not legal) for homeschoolers or potential homeschoolers to sit down and devise some sort of mission statement before they're allowed to ask (or answer) any questions on internet homeschool groups.  People who ask "What is the best 4th grade curriculum?" need to take a step back in their thought process.  People who respond with "_____ curriculum" are not being helpful.  When has a list of 200 random options ever helped anyone???

I don't want to discount emergency situations. I can understand reflexively yanking a kid out of school and suddenly finding oneself in a completely foreign, overwhelming land.  We should be helping those people but, again, not with a list of 200 random options.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Targhee said:

You should!

I agree with pointing it out, but I also agree with what Tibbie said - after a while you just start to feel like you can’t police everybody and they are not listening anyway. 

[....]

9 hours ago, maize said:

At age 6?

I didn't.

I didn't stick them in front of a screen either.

Based on their stellar performance in rigorous university summer programs this year I would say my older kids have thrived with enriched unschooling as their primary early years education.

I do tend to agree that most kids would likely be better off in school than in front of a screen expected to work independently at that age.

 

Yeah, we're "done around lunch" homeschoolers, so I'm not joining in on the "we have to sit at the table for 9 hours a day to be homeschooling properly" comments (no offense, draconian homeschoolers *insert evil laugh*).  

But, yes, our homeschooling by lunchtime is our formal curriculum.  That does not count for learning lifestyle stuff like all the reading we do, discussions, projects...  After "school", my kids do not play video games, watch TV or Ipad.  My son designed and built a computer all by himself last year: installed all the hardware and software.  It was all over the kitchen table - it looked like a giant 3D puzzle when he was figuring out how to install all the components.  Yesterday, he built a robotic forklift out of his Vex IQ kit and spent an hour chasing the 3 year-old around the house with it, lifting play doh containers and lego towers while the 3 year-old screamed in terror.  DD16 has a room-full of plants, aquariums and an aquaponics set-up she designed.  DD13 spent most of yesterday evening painting and making jewelry with metal wire and beads.  I also have one kid teaching himself piano and taking guitar lessons, one kid teaching herself drums and piano, two kids taking violin lessons, etc.  

I've always said that we would be great unschoolers!  Lol.  All these things are child-directed, so I don't always count them as school...  Not sure where the line between formal schoolwork ends and child-directed learning begins.  

[....]

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Like a previous poster's relative, dh's boss had the impression that we get ps books and just learn 'em at home. It was an interesting client dinner for dh, lol.  For one thing, dh can't even verbalize what we do (not that I'm much better at it) AND they were with a client, so how far can you really contradict your boss???

I feel like I fall on the very relaxed end of the spectrum, but that's only if you take away all of the people who believe in idea of learning without teaching. (And I'm not talking about dedicated unschoolers.)  When you add in the no-teaching people, I feel like I'm almost hardcore in comparison!

 

Ugh!  Not the "textbooks from the public school" thingie again!  Where do people get this from?!  Lol.

I agree with the last paragraph.  I've always considered us relaxed homeschoolers, but maybe that's just my imagination.

[maize]

I just went and read through the last couple weeks worth of posts on our local Facebook group and didn't find anything like what people are describing here. The questions asked all seemed quite reasonable to me.

[maize]

37 minutes ago, Evanthe said:

 

Yeah, we're "done around lunch" homeschoolers, so I'm not joining in on the "we have to sit at the table for 9 hours a day to be homeschooling properly" comments (no offense, draconian homeschoolers *insert evil laugh*).  

But, yes, our homeschooling by lunchtime is our formal curriculum.  That does not count for learning lifestyle stuff like all the reading we do, discussions, projects...  After "school", my kids do not play video games, watch TV or Ipad.  My son designed and built a computer all by himself last year: installed all the hardware and software.  It was all over the kitchen table - it looked like a giant 3D puzzle when he was figuring out how to install all the components.  Yesterday, he built a robotic forklift out of his Vex IQ kit and spent an hour chasing the 3 year-old around the house with it, lifting play doh containers and lego towers while the 3 year-old screamed in terror.  DD16 has a room-full of plants, aquariums and an aquaponics set-up she designed.  DD13 spent most of yesterday evening painting and making jewelry with metal wire and beads.  I also have one kid teaching himself piano and taking guitar lessons, one kid teaching herself drums and piano, two kids taking violin lessons, etc.  

I've always said that we would be great unschoolers!  Lol.  All these things are child-directed, so I don't always count them as school...  Not sure where the line between formal schoolwork ends and child-directed learning begins.  

 

I've decided to call my educational approach flex schooling. Basically, my job is to find and facilitate whatever resources and opportunities best meet the needs and promote the development of each child--within the limitations and necessities of life circumstances of course. 

Sometimes this is very unschooly, sometimes it is more structured learning at home or in another setting. 

I'm very comfortable with learning being both something that can happen in a classroom and something that needs no classroom or textbook. What is necessary is experience and opportunity and motivation and support.

Right now I am so enjoying watching my older children stretch their wings and fly--I am seeing exactly the interest and joy in learning that I had hoped to cultivate.

I have younger kids in a public school setting and think a lot about how to keep that spark of joy alive in them as well. I think it is all too easy for kids at school to come to view learning as something that is fed to them.

Edited August 2, 2018 by maize

[teachermom2834]

I get this question frequently from someone with a large family who isn’t very interested in the process but is romantic about the idea of homeschooling and adamant about avoiding public school. 

I just keep saying that I managed to do a good job homeschooling when mine were all little and a toddler underfoot because it was my job and my hobby. I worked it during the day and enjoyed spending evenings planning, prepping, and researching. There is no curriculum online or otherwise, free or expensive, that is going to make it easy to educate a bunch of kids from K through high school. It is hard and it has to be a priority. It is flexible but it can’t be the least important task on your list each day.

Now heading into my 16th year I am burned out on some of it and I do outsource. But it isn’t cheap and I do still spend a ton of time researching and plan the individualized path for each child. And my children that are online are very independent. But I still am home supervising and supporting. And I laid a very solid foundation when they were young. 

I cringe when people ask about homeschooling. My older kids do honestly do their classes online. But they are live classes with teachers and deadlines. But people think it is the equivalent of something like Khan Academy across all the subjects. 

I am guessing there are a lot of factors but the advances in technology are surely up there. When I started this venture we had unreliable dial up. And social media wasn’t a thing. The endless blogs and social media postings about homeschooling as a romantic and perfect family lifestyle are so prevalent. Back when I started I had to go to the library and check out actual books and read them to learn about homeschooling. And the authors had to actually go to the trouble of writing a book. If that step was still necessary it would weed out a lot of people that shouldn’t be doing this and the “expert” homeschoolers that slap some staged pictures on a blog or Instagram and tell everyone how easy homeschooling is.

[wendyroo]

I see this attitude a lot from local homeschooling moms.  They say things like "I don't believe in curricula" and I start thinking about how hard it would be for me to educate my children with no curricula.  But then as we continue to talk, I realize that by "curricula" that actually mean "education".  They don't really believe in any type of schooling, even the unschooling variety, and the kids, even upper elementary and middle schoolers, spend most of their days playing Minecraft and going to extracurriculars.  Recently one mom told me she didn't worry about most subjects because her kids weren't interested in them, but that she did absolutely insist that her 5th grader do a couple pages of an Even Moor math workbook every week!!  She told me this like I would be awed by her dedication and rigor.

Wendy

[Mimm]

All these poorly educated homeschool students are going to grow up and speak out against homeschooling. Eventually, the backlash is going to be loud enough that homeschool rights are very threatened, or regulations will be adopted everywhere.

This morning I came across a post on a local homeschool group expressing shock that people homeschool 5-6 hours a day and saying they must count video gaming and chores. I live in Missouri where we have to count hours and getting that 1000 hours a year in is a preoccupation for a lot of people. 1000 hours is a bit much in the younger years so you end up counting anything remotely educational at first. But by the time they're in like 5th or 6th grade (maybe earlier, maybe later, depending on how fast or slow your child works), it's totally doable using only actual school work. I counted all the reading my kids did and never had trouble getting to 1000. But people are still counting going to the grocery store or having normal every day parenting conversations as school hours.

[itsheresomewhere]

2 hours ago, wendyroo said:

I see this attitude a lot from local homeschooling moms.  They say things like "I don't believe in curricula" and I start thinking about how hard it would be for me to educate my children with no curricula.  But then as we continue to talk, I realize that by "curricula" that actually mean "education".  They don't really believe in any type of schooling, even the unschooling variety, and the kids, even upper elementary and middle schoolers, spend most of their days playing Minecraft and going to extracurriculars.  Recently one mom told me she didn't worry about most subjects because her kids weren't interested in them, but that she did absolutely insist that her 5th grader do a couple pages of an Even Moor math workbook every week!!  She told me this like I would be awed by her dedication and rigor.

Wendy

This reminds me of when I went and sold stuff at a what was supposed to be a used curriculum sale ( was so not a curriculum sale).  We were the only ones with actual curriculum and one lady said to me “ We don’t use books in our homeschool”.   ?

[Dmmetler]

2 hours ago, Mimm said:

All these poorly educated homeschool students are going to grow up and speak out against homeschooling. Eventually, the backlash is going to be loud enough that homeschool rights are very threatened, or regulations will be adopted everywhere.

This morning I came across a post on a local homeschool group expressing shock that people homeschool 5-6 hours a day and saying they must count video gaming and chores. I live in Missouri where we have to count hours and getting that 1000 hours a year in is a preoccupation for a lot of people. 1000 hours is a bit much in the younger years so you end up counting anything remotely educational at first. But by the time they're in like 5th or 6th grade (maybe earlier, maybe later, depending on how fast or slow your child works), it's totally doable using only actual school work. I counted all the reading my kids did and never had trouble getting to 1000. But people are still counting going to the grocery store or having normal every day parenting conversations as school hours.

At our recent getting started meeting, there was a discussion on days/hours (180 days/4 hours). For a 5 yr old, yeah, you probably won’t spend four hours of seat work a day, and a lot should look like play and field trips to the “touch a truck” day the local band puts on as a fundraiser.  But by middle or high school, well, the only response I could make is “trust me, if you actually teach everything that your child needs to be college ready, you’ll be over the days/hours required”. I do think it still takes less time than PS, though-DD is generally able to get her school work and outside class work and classes in during what would be a normal school day, while her same age-friends are doing several hours a night on top of that. But yeah, she probably puts in from 8:00-3:00 daily. And that’s not counting reading for fun, music practice, sports practice, or her herp stuff. 

[Targhee]

7 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

I have noticed that it is harder to sell used curriculum (good, solid stuff, not Evan Moor workbooks). People are looking for the lastest hands-free online stuff instead of actual books. 

Oh no - you mean my cupboards of treasure are now worthless ?

[Sneezyone]

Just saw another one of these today. Parent wants as close to free as possible and 100% online. This is for a 5 and 7yo. SMDH.

[BarbecueMom]

3 hours ago, Mimm said:

All these poorly educated homeschool students are going to grow up and speak out against homeschooling. Eventually, the backlash is going to be loud enough that homeschool rights are very threatened, or regulations will be adopted everywhere.

This morning I came across a post on a local homeschool group expressing shock that people homeschool 5-6 hours a day and saying they must count video gaming and chores. I live in Missouri where we have to count hours and getting that 1000 hours a year in is a preoccupation for a lot of people. 1000 hours is a bit much in the younger years so you end up counting anything remotely educational at first. But by the time they're in like 5th or 6th grade (maybe earlier, maybe later, depending on how fast or slow your child works), it's totally doable using only actual school work. I counted all the reading my kids did and never had trouble getting to 1000. But people are still counting going to the grocery store or having normal every day parenting conversations as school hours.

I think this is the first year (5th grade) that our actual butt-in-seat work plus music practice plus assigned reading is > 1000 hours.  However that’s not including camps and outside classes and field trips and free reading and anything athletic and their own personal projects.  Just planned out curriculum.  Free reading alone would put us way over that line but I cannot keep track of all of their free reading any more.  I’m not even awake for some of it.

I do think we put more emphasis on writing skills than others, and I suspect that’s where the hours are lagging behind in the middle grades.  Conflict avoidance, undiagnosed LDs, lack of confidence in teaching it?

My 3rd grader’s planned work is slightly under 1000 hours, but there’s certainly more than enough hours of the other stuff to fill in the rest.

I suspect that the public school year doesn’t equal 1000 instructional hours/year before middle school, but most kids are doing summer school now to push over that mark.  Not entirely sure that’s a good thing for most kids, though.

Edited August 2, 2018 by BarbecueMom