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Paradox5

Is this Normal Speech Development?

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Captain is 22 1/2 mos. He has limited vocabulary which I will list below. Is this normal language acquisition?

Mum/Mom

'Addy (Daddy)

Oh, Wow!

Hi

'ei [long /i/ sound] (think it means no. He says this when he doesn't want, say the doctor to touch him.)

'bah (think it means please. He says this when we say "say 'please'".)

And that is about it for words.

I did get him to say the sound /t/  and /h/ once. If I say 'book', he will say /b/.

I can see his mouth forming the sounds, but he isn't articulating anything. He was severly tongue-tied at birth but we had that clipped at around Day 4. He does stick out his tongue.

I have had 3 kids be speech delayed and 2 be precocious. I'm not sure what Is normal anymore. His pedi. at his 18 mos. said wait and see but Early Childhood Intervention cuts off at 3. If he needs them, I would rather do it earlier than later.

Is this normal?

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They want to see MINIMUM 50 words by age 2 (24 months), and words includes animal sounds. So if you do an animal sound toy or animal book and ask what a sheep says, what a cow says,etc., those count as words. 

It's interesting to me that he has an /I/ because that is a dipthong for motor planning, starting with a jaw drop for an /a/ sound and then with retraction of the lips to an /E/. Say it super slowly with a mirror and you'll see what I mean. So if we were thinking apraxia (motor planning) as an explanation for delay, that would be a curious sound to have, just saying. It has more complex motor planning.

That 50 words is super minimum. That's the cutoff EI around here uses. I think the peds, the speechies, etc. want 200 at 2 (though honestly I forget as my ds had zilcho basically), and they want to see a progression, that he's increasing. So it's not just where he's at but the trajectory and that he's adding. Is he adding? Is he LOSING?

Yes, I would get intervention and connect with your EI. There's no harm in intervention, but there's regret in waiting if you need the intervention. Intervention at this age (and for a long, long time) will be play, all play. He'll probably love it. They'll probably come to your home, and it will be a highlight. 

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Thank you, PeterPan. I knew I could count on you to respond with helpful advice.

Captain makes a weird closed mouth barking squeak for dog. He has a LeapFrog Scout dog that makes a similar sound for a bark. He also sing-songy says 'ei, ei, o' as in Old MacDonald Had a Farm. He is no where near 50 words or separate sounds.

We did ECI with Sons 3 and 4, and it was such a blessing! I think I am going to call them Monday. I relate to your zilcho comment. Mine were the same.

Tomorrow, I am going to try to track what sounds/words he says. 

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You already know this, but you want to be talking with your ped about screening for spectrum as well. The EI people can probably help that, but when you say the language issues and that sing-songy... I don't know, I'm just taking that kind of literally. Just make sure you're doing screenings and keeping him in the loop. Some clinics have a long wait for private evals, so you don't want to be hitting say 3 and wishing for evals and then having a 6-9 month wait. You'd rather be doing that wait now. 

I look back at my ds' pictures from age 2 and it was so obvious, sigh. 

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You could check your library for this book:

Teach Me How to Say It Right

https://books.google.ca/books?id=pto8AAAACAAJ&dq=Teach+me+how+to+say+it+right&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiawYPLscPcAhUKJDQIHZ19CsgQ6AEIJTAA

It will give you some info on language development and it is a short read, about 145 pages. 

Yes, I would look into it. You could start by speaking with your pediatrician.

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This is a long time ago for me, but I took my twins at 18 months, and they wanted a minimum of 4 separate words.  

My son didn’t have 4 separate words.  My daughter did but she still qualified, I don’t remember how she qualified.  

Both of them ended up having fluid in their ears and getting tubes, which the EI person was extremely, extremely helpful in figuring out.  

My son did also get missed for autism and it’s too bad.  I would hope that EI would do a better job with that now in the town where I lived, because I think a lot more has come out about early signs of autism in just the past 5 years.  But I agree it’s worth looking for early signs of autism, and asking for a referral if there is any concern at all.

On the other hand, my daughter completely caught up within a month of getting tubes in her ears ?  

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My middle dd's speech development sounds similar. She went through EI starting at 24 months. At about two she had ah-ah (Mama), 'Ab-eee (Daddy), ay-eee (older sister & baby), ow, oh (no), and sign language. 

He sounds closer to 12 month speech development than 24 month honestly. I would call EI if it were my child. 

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I mentioned starting with your pediatrician because, depending on where you live, you may need a referral. I'm not in the US. Here, we needed a referral for the autism evaluations and diagnoses my boys received. I just checked and EI here also requires a referral. I don't know what the situation is in the US, but if you don't need a referral, you could certainly just contact EI directly.

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Even my kid who needs speech was precocious about timing and how many words he had, but I'm going to chime in for anyone lurking to say that having language doesn't mean having good language or being problem-free--my second one has motor planning issues. He's just more non-traditional about it (jaw stability in his case seems to be causing the problem, and the jaw instability is probably due to his connective tissue disorder). He's apraxic, but not the more typical little-to-no spoken language sort of apraxia.

 

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I do not have autism concerns at all. He doesn't have any markers for it-- just speech.

I will call the Pedi first tomorrow. Good idea, y'all. 

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On the flip side, people shouldn't freak out and assume a serious problem at less than 50 words. Almost all of my kids were slow talkers, but the words the did say were clear and normal. 

I remember when our dd started talking in full paragraphs at 16 months bc it was so foreign to how our older kids had developed speech. 

Their receptive language was normal, though. I could ask them to go get something and they would know exactly what I was saying.

What the OP is describing, however, does not sound like just delayed speech. But it is hard for me to understand the pronunciation issues. 

Our 4 yr old grandson's speech was equally delayed. He has no language deficiencies now. He didn't talk hardly at all until he was almost 2. My dil was panicky, but he was very much like his dad.

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Coming back to update. Captain had his ECI eval Tuesday. In every area EXCEPT expressive speech, he was at or far above normal for his age. His speech is around 12 months old. 

They suggested teaching him sign langauge but I do not feel right about doing that. Go with yer gut, right?

He is going to have a SLP come 3 times a month, and we will have assignments from her. 

Not sure what else to do except keep trying to get him to repeat sounds and use words rather than body language. We read constantly!

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I don't think skipping ASL out of concern that it will hold back speech development is an evidence-based practice. Google for the research and see, but there are doubtless studies on it. Our SLP expert in apraxia WANTED us to use ASL and she used it in sessions interchangeable with speech when ds started at that age. ASL is language and is working that language part of the brain, meaning it's just good. You can use ASL *and* speech. I got the entire Signing Time dvd set for my ds at that age. It has tons of language, so you can watch it together, do the signs together, say the words. What was telling with my ds was that he actually couldn't get his thoughts out with ASL any better than with spoken language. So it's really valuable to you to go ahead and start doing ASL with him. Do BOTH. That way you can see more what is going on.

9 hours ago, Paradox5 said:

Not sure what else to do except

They inventoried his speech, right? And he has some kind of something he gets out?  With my ds, we were working up from nothing at that age. The biggest principle is require language for everything. Anything he wants requires language. Every bite of food he eats, every time he wants up to change his diaper, every next piece in the game, EVERYTHING requires language from now on. Want another bite? Say /a/ (or whatever he has). You're reading books to him, so want the next page, say /a/ (or whatever he has). And so on. It doesn't have to be perfect language or the final thing you want him to say when he's 15, lol. Just pick something he *can* say and have him use it more. We used vowels, syllables, whatever we had built up that he had. 

No, I wouldn't try to push with repeating sounds. Even SLPs don't necessarily do that. It's unnecessarily stressful. Just take what he has and USE it more. Language has to have power for him so he wants to use it.

The SLP hopefully will have really good suggestions too! If you want private therapy, you can look into Hanen and Play Project. Both will be really conducive to a natural style of interaction and how you like to work at home. 

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18 hours ago, Paradox5 said:

 They suggested teaching him sign langauge but I do not feel right about doing that. Go with yer gut, right?

For a child with normal hearing and no receptive language delay teaching sign will not hinder speech development. Your child has received sufficient auditory access for normal brain development in the auditory processing areas.

Now for a child with a hearing impairment who is not getting full auditory access, then there is a very real risk that using a visual language will hinder the child's ability to learn a spoken language. Dr. Anu Sharma, who is a neuroscientist at the University of Colorado-Boulder, has done a lot of research using neuroimaging to show that in deaf children the visual parts of the brain start to take over the auditory areas and that auditory-based intervention reverses that effect.

But that's not going to happen if your child has normal hearing and you're just using sign to help bridge the gap between what he understands is being said to him and what he can produce.

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We started my daughter in EI at 15 months for speech.  We had done a handful of signs (milk, more, please/ thank you, I think) before that, but when she qualified, the speech therapist said, "ASL will help."  So we started watching Signing Time and using the signs we learned in daily conversation.  It was ROCKET FUEL for her.  She had normal hearing, didn't need tubes or anything, but she went from an expressive language level of 6 months (and I think receptive was also delayed, although less so) to a 36 month level by her second birthday.  She had over 300 signs by then.  Her trajectory went from nothing to signing to once the signing was established to using the spoken word.  Because the ASL had taught her language skills, when the oral motor improved enough, it just automatically transferred, because she already had the language skills.  She had some oral motor issues, though not at the level of apraxia, but she really needed the bridge of ASL.  Everyone told me I was nuts calling EI when she was only 15 months old, but my gut said something was wrong, and I'm so glad we intervened then, because it was so much easier to catch her up.  She's now almost 15 and has no issues at all.  (Ironically, her younger sister who was extremely precocious verbally DOES have issues, but that's another story.)  

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53 minutes ago, Paradox5 said:

Ok- y’all have convinced me. I’m going to check my library for those dvds today.

Coming in late with another Signing Times recommendation story. I was told at my DD's interview to set up therapy through our school district that she was "THE best behaved, speech delayed child" the therapist had ever seen. The lady told me she didn't have hardly any frustration based behavior problems like the other kids because she was able to be understood through sign. 

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And then I caught the tummy bug two other sons so kindly brought home...

I think I’m going to see if amazon prime has them for streaming.

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On 9/20/2018 at 10:19 PM, Paradox5 said:

I think I’m going to see if amazon prime has them for streaming.

I don't know if you had success finding them, but we bought all 4 of the Baby Signing Time DVDs streaming on Amazon and they were amazing. I felt they were a lot more functional for DS (who was probably 20 months at the time), because they moved a lot slower than the regular Signing Time. The signs were also a lot more functional for a young child, "more" "potty" "drink" whereas the other DVDs we have were less common signs. We were focused on teaching him how to get his wants and needs met.

Another thing we did was whenever we encountered a situation where we didn't have the sign he needed for a particular event, I would do a quick youtube search and demonstrate it. That way we were always adding to his vocabulary with things he may encounter again. 

DS took really well to sign and it really helped his speech take off. I was also worried that once he saw how well signing worked he wouldn't want to put the work into speaking, but it's been the opposite. ASL has given him the bridge he needed to get his wants and needs met without frustration and now he uses a lot more words, but will still rely on a sign if we can't seem to understand what he is saying.  It's also helped with his oral motor planning. The sign is a silent prompt to himself to make his mouth move in a certain way. He is getting better at single words, but still can't string them together without a 1 to 1 prompt of some kind. He's about 30 months now with maybe 20 words that are understandable, but over 100 signs and he often tries other words that I can decode based on context.

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Another thing I liked about the "Baby Signing Time" dvds is that all the children featured in them are under three, so you see how REAL toddlers make the signs.  My daughter clearly would try to make the "cracker" sign, but she simply wasn't capable of it or the official water sign, but I saw other kids on the Baby Signing Time dvds making the exact approximations that she did.  I found that very helpful.  I agree that for the little ones, Baby Signing Time is better, but when Anna was little, they were just coming out, so we started with the regular ones since those were what was available and bought the baby ones when she was around 2, when they came out.  They're ALL awesome.  Rachel is really an amazing woman!  

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