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CLE math vs Singapore


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We have done all of Miquon orange book and part of red. My son says it is his favorite. We will keep going with it. But it just feels like it needs a differe t spine to focus on building skills and practice. 

So I bought Singapore 1A and 1B. We were going along with it, but I haven't been thrilled with it. It feels like I still need to come up with stuff and pull too much together. 

I got a sample from CLE. They sent me the lightunit 104. We have done five lessons so far. It seems to be so easy (in a good way) and has a good amount of variety in the lessons. 

I guess I am wanting something more planned out for me so I don't feel like I am creating gaps or having to plan so much! But I already have Singapore for all of first. 

Should I stick it out with Singapore since I have it? Or buy CLE since it feels like a good fit? Or is math just always going to feel like I need to be pulling thungs together and planning? 

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I don't know if my advice helps at all. But, something about Singapore in the 1A-2A levels, I don't know. When I have started Singapore at 2B, it goes so well. But at 1A, it just goes on and on and on..and doesn't seem to bring joy or anything. I am not sure why. Maybe the presentation doesn't work as well at this age. You could just do CLE for the year and then re-evaluate.

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Well that may be what it is. I just don't love the way it presents everything. 

I picked singapore based on all the reviews and I really do love the concept behind Asian style math. Which is why I was so reluctant to look into CLE. But I figured a free sample wouldn't hurt. I just don't want ds to only learn the procedure and not understand the why. Which makes me hesitate to go full into CLE. 

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I would stick with Miquon and Singapore and for variety or targeted skill practice add in some of:

Greg Tang picture books and free worksheets from his website

Math Start picture books

Prodigy Math free online game

These are not project based extra type stuff so doesn't require any prep beyond requesting books from your library and setting up an online account.

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I liked Singapore in the earlier grades, but when my kids got to about 3rd or 4th grade it really got hard to teach. And my kids struggled. Now,  I just start everyone with CLE and I have to say, I think CLE does a fabulous job with fractions.

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They are both solid programs.  The more important thing is to pick one and stick with it.  Singapore must be implemented correctly in order to fully benefit--use the HIG, teach the concept, use the textbook and workbook.  (I'm mentioning this because a common mistake people make with Singapore is to just use the workbook.) CLE is incredibly thorough and the review is excellent.  I started my kids with Rightstart and moved them to Singapore at Level 2.  My math-minded DS has done very well with Singapore and I have no regrets about his math education.  My DD has always struggled to retain the concepts and needed more repetition.  We supplemented with Math Mammoth along the way for specific concepts (long division and fractions) as Singapore was not enough for her to master them.  She did MLFLE last year.  I'm switching her to CLE for 7th grade and we have had a lot of gaps to fill in this summer. If I could go back, I would have started her with CLE and done that the whole way through. But for my DS, Singapore has been perfect.  

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I want to add that I disagree about the HIG. Originally, the HIG was not available. And it was written by an American publisher. It is not made by the same people. You do need to use the textbook and if you are uncomfortable teaching math in general, then the HIG won't hurt. But many people taught Singapore Math just fine well before the HIGs came out. I know not everyone will agree with me, this is just my opinion. 

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16 hours ago, Janeway said:

I don't know if my advice helps at all. But, something about Singapore in the 1A-2A levels, I don't know. When I have started Singapore at 2B, it goes so well. But at 1A, it just goes on and on and on..and doesn't seem to bring joy or anything. I am not sure why. Maybe the presentation doesn't work as well at this age. You could just do CLE for the year and then re-evaluate.

I agree with this.  Well, except, I like 2A.  But 1A and 1B are a slog.  Of course, when I did them, there was no HIG, so maybe that was the problem.  Do you have the HIG?  If not, I'd start there.

The best thing we did when we were in that boat was to switch to RightStart B.  It was perfect.  We did maybe 3/4 of B and then went into 2A and it was smooth sailing from there.

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17 hours ago, lolo said:

I picked singapore based on all the reviews and I really do love the concept behind Asian style math. Which is why I was so reluctant to look into CLE. But I figured a free sample wouldn't hurt. I just don't want ds to only learn the procedure and not understand the why. Which makes me hesitate to go full into CLE. 

My experience in teaching math to my kids over the past 20+ yrs is that the forums' arguments that Singapore and its like are the only math programs teaching concepts and the rest only teach math procedurally are highly exaggerated.   If you find an elementary math program you like and can teach well, you will find that teaching math concepts is more than likely a natural part of the teaching process.

I have never seen CLE math before, but if it is anything like Horizons (and people say it is more comprehensive than Horizons), the concepts are being taught. When posters repeatedly say that Horizons does not teach concepts, I wonder exactly what math they are teaching bc the concepts are incorporated in the text. (I have yet to have a student not completely understand elementary math concepts by using only Horizons. ? ) If you like CLE and find it best suits your teaching style, don't stress that you are hampering your child's math comprehension. )

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1 hour ago, Janeway said:

I want to add that I disagree about the HIG. Originally, the HIG was not available. And it was written by an American publisher. It is not made by the same people. You do need to use the textbook and if you are uncomfortable teaching math in general, then the HIG won't hurt. But many people taught Singapore Math just fine well before the HIGs came out. I know not everyone will agree with me, this is just my opinion. 

I understand what you are saying, but not everyone can teach the concepts intuitively.  The OP said that she wants something planned out to avoid gaps. Personally, I needed the HIG to teach me how to teach math.  I think that the majority fall into that camp; for those that don't, more power to you!  ?

22 minutes ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

My experience in teaching math to my kids over the past 20+ yrs is that the forums' arguments that Singapore and its like are the only math programs teaching concepts and the rest only teach math procedurally are highly exaggerated.   If you find an elementary math program you like and can teach well, you will find that teaching math concepts is more than likely a natural part of the teaching process.

 

I think that difference is that some programs emphasize the "why" before teaching the algorithm. It's not that the other programs never teach the "why" or that Asian style programs never teach the algorithm. Singapore is also heavy on the mental math.  This was very challenging for my daughter.  I always had to introduce the algorithm to her before she fully grasped the concept and she needed a lot more repetition than my son.  

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5 minutes ago, kristin0713 said:

 

I think that difference is that some programs emphasize the "why" before teaching the algorithm. It's not that the other programs never teach the "why" or that Asian style programs never teach the algorithm. Singapore is also heavy on the mental math.  This was very challenging for my daughter.  I always had to introduce the algorithm to her before she fully grasped the concept and she needed a lot more repetition than my son.  

I have never seen CLE, but Horizons does emphasize concepts prior to algorithms. For example, they have students separating ten rods and regrouping into 10 1s (23 is represented as 2 10 rods and 3 one rods regrouped into 1 10 rod and 13 ones) long before they ever have children doing subtraction with "borrowing." Yet, to read the forums you would be convinced that the kids are simply taught pure algorithm with no understanding of what they are doing if they "borrow."

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On 7/24/2018 at 7:24 AM, kristin0713 said:

They are both solid programs.  The more important thing is to pick one and stick with it.  Singapore must be implemented correctly in order to fully benefit--use the HIG, teach the concept, use the textbook and workbook.  (I'm mentioning this because a common mistake people make with Singapore is to just use the workbook.) CLE is incredibly thorough and the review is excellent.  I started my kids with Rightstart and moved them to Singapore at Level 2.  My math-minded DS has done very well with Singapore and I have no regrets about his math education.  My DD has always struggled to retain the concepts and needed more repetition.  We supplemented with Math Mammoth along the way for specific concepts (long division and fractions) as Singapore was not enough for her to master them.  She did MLFLE last year.  I'm switching her to CLE for 7th grade and we have had a lot of gaps to fill in this summer. If I could go back, I would have started her with CLE and done that the whole way through. But for my DS, Singapore has been perfect.  

 

I was trying to choose between MLFALE, CLE, or Singapore for my 2nd and 3rd graders.  Did you not like MLFALE?

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5 hours ago, RoseS8 said:

 

I was trying to choose between MLFALE, CLE, or Singapore for my 2nd and 3rd graders.  Did you not like MLFALE?

I found MLFLE to be behind most other homeschool programs. The 6th grade level barely had any pre-algebra and most other programs do, so we have had to do a lot of that this summer to prepare her for 7th grade. 

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17 hours ago, kristin0713 said:

I found MLFLE to be behind most other homeschool programs. The 6th grade level barely had any pre-algebra and most other programs do, so we have had to do a lot of that this summer to prepare her for 7th grade. 

 

I think I heard that Masterbook's Principles of Mathematics is a two year pre-algebra program (7th and 8th).  I guess if someone was going to continue on with POM it wouldn't be a problem, but I know not everyone will want to move on to if after MLFALE.

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I like CLE.  If you want to add more interesting word problems with another resource, then you're only adding one thing and that's easy to do.  IMHO, with Singapore there's more you have to consider adding - flashcards and other fact practice, extra practice, extra review, maybe staggered review.  Then you never know if you're doing enough or too much.  CLE is the whole package - and definitely less decision making about how to make it complete.  

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6 hours ago, RoseS8 said:

 

I think I heard that Masterbook's Principles of Mathematics is a two year pre-algebra program (7th and 8th).  I guess if someone was going to continue on with POM it wouldn't be a problem, but I know not everyone will want to move on to if after MLFALE.

That is true. Principles has a ton of reading and that would not work for my DD for math. 

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