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I’m annoyed by what I view as an unnecessary purchase


Quill
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I was away for awhile and have not read all the new posts. 

I would like to suggest that the purse is probably an ice berg tip so to speak or like the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back. It probably is not the first expense of hers to upset you and probably not the only issue in your life upsetting you. It has galvanized your distress and is symbolic to you. 

She truly cannot know what is going on in your head unless you share with her. No one can and it is unfair to ask anyone to read your mind and do what you desire or demand. 

The purse as I said is symbolic of your distress, and your distress is about more than what your dd is responsible for. In addition, you have probably not spoken up in the past so you have a lava flow of resentment building up inside. 

Letting it out in a calm and considered discussion and working out a plan of action is almost certainly going to be better than waiting for the next thing and exploding worse the next time but still not really expressing and sharing your situation in a way that will help. 

The purse expense probably would not have gone all that far toward a car, but many such little and medium doodads add up and fritter away ones money. 

Unless there is some extraordinary reason not to do this, Personally, I suggest that you let her know that dealing with car replacement will be completely on her. She may need to carpool or bus or bike ride. 

You also need to work out the trip repayment situation clearly. 

You perhaps might add sharing household expenses and budgeting with her as a learning tool in real life reality. 

Some families still need kids to pitch in to household expenses, others can afford to pay kid’s ways 100%.  It sounds like you are in between. It probably will not hurt her or you to share a good bit. Someday you may be unable to manage your affairs and your kids may be the ones to take over. Perhaps now is a good time for them or her at least to start catching on. 

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I feel what you are saying here Quill.  

One thing that was helpful for me to realize is that I have a cross class relationship with my own children.  This is a type of cross cultural communication gap that can be both challenging and illuminating.  I grew up poor and have been fortunate enough to raise my kids middle class or with the general sense of being middle class (for example, we have spent some years living on a lower income than previously but because of our resources (savings, community connections, and family) the boys never experienced those years with even the slightest degree of deprivation.  And we are talking modest means, not poverty by any metric.  My boys have college educated parents and have always had every need and a goodly portion of wants fulfilled.  That’s radically different than how my life looked and felt from birth to young adulthood.  

I realized that while there were negatives to them not learning some of the same lessons I did, there are also positives.  They have so much more in the way of opportunities than I ever did.  At the end of the day, I’m glad my son can tutor math for good money rather than babysitting for less than minimum wage.  I’m glad that he is spending the summer between 9th and 10th grades in a university class and sleepaway camp and on a family trip rather than doing what I was the summer I turned 15- working several low wage jobs and not knowing where we would live the next year.  I’m grateful that he will probably spend the summer between 10th and 11th grade in a paid internship or taking more university classes.  

I’ve tried to avoid telling him about poverty in favor of showing him what he can do about poverty.  

I’m not perfect.  Sometimes I am both wistful that I didn’t get the opportunities they are enjoying and, on rare occasions, mildly indignant that he doesn’t grasp what it’s like to worry over a lost $10 bill or make meals for 2 days out of a loaf of food bank bread.  Like come on dude, not everyone can afford to just get a new this or that.  

At the end of the day, we can’t get only the positives of every scenario.  What we perceive as the good comes with some things we may perceive as not as great.  

Hopefully by budgeting, she will realize that a splurge in one area means economizing in another.  Opening up about your finances and teaching budgeting in and intentional way can really help.  

I would also urge you to avoid thinking that your way = best.  Certainly you can reduce your financial support should you choose to do so, but I don’t think the value judgement helps.  I say this having made these value judgements myself.  My life got better when I stopped assigning value judgments to things that are objectively speaking different and not better or worse.  She’s going to need to figure some of this stuff out in her own.  Maybe you don’t spend $60 on a purse, but I am sure you have a spending priority or preference of your own.  We all do, somewhere.

It’s ok to feel what you are feeling!  Millions of families navigate these same waters with their kids (in both directions).  

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13 minutes ago, Quill said:

I feel like I might not have made this aspect clear, but she pays for her own stuff. She pays for oil changes and gas in the car, though we have paid for repairs and new tires. She pays for iced coffees or sushi or movies with her bf. She buys her own makeup and skin care and any clothing that isn’t a necessity like bras and underwear. The thing with all those expenses is, though yes, she pays for them, paying more money for those things means less money available to buy the new car and pay the debt from France, kwim? 

 

Yes. But have you explained your financial situation and your emotions around spending for frivolity before dealing with debt and upcoming expected expenses to her?

Are your expectations clear to her or only in your own head ?

13 minutes ago, Quill said:

 

I don’t understand what you mean by she buys the car and we put money in her account. How is that her buying it? The way I intend to handle the car is that we will buy it outright, preferably from a private seller, and then she will immediately pay us back a “down payment,” which will probably be around $500, and then pay is back some each month, possibly culminating with a final payment for the balance after she has full time employment next year. This would be so we do not need a loan, which would require more expensive insurance. (We pay all insurance at present.) 

 

Have you made a legally binding promise to her that you will provide a car for her as you describe and that she will pay you back as described?

 It sounds to me like a bad way to do it. Likely not to turn out the way you want. Likely to exacerbate and extend the same distress you had over the purse. 

She cannot learn to put things like transportation before sushi and iced coffees if you enable her. 

You are the adult. If you want her to put the car first, do not buy it for her. Or if you buy the car, don’t be surprised if she keeps buying doodads. 

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10 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

One thing that was helpful for me to realize is that I have a cross class relationship with my own children.

This is perfectly stated. I did not know to articulate it this way but that is precisely it. 

Quote

ot perfect.  Sometimes I am both wistful that I didn’t get the opportunities they are m enjoying and on rare occasions, I am mildly indignant that he doesn’t grasp what it’s like to worry over a lost $10 bill or make meals for 2 days out of a loaf of food bank bread.  Like come on dude, not everyone can afford to just get a new this or that.  

Eeeeexactly. I think this when we have turn-on-the-air-conditioning conflicts. Because I feel like, “Big whoop, it’s a little humid. I had zero air conditioning for my entire childhood.” And I know what that darned electric bill is going to look like. 

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3 hours ago, sassenach said:

I am 1000% with you, girl! My 21yo spends money like water and it's sooooo hard to know when to say something and when to shut up. She doesn't owe us money per say but she made a huge error with her bank account which ended up draining ours (we've since unlinked them) and she never even offered to pay us back. But she's been to plenty of concerts this month!

She was crying to me last night because she feels limited in her opportunities because she has to work (vs people who can take unpaid internships). There, there. Maybe if you paid off your credit cards, you wouldn't have to work so many hours? No, I didn't say that.

 

Rabbit trail  — I read this and started worrying that same could happen here   

How would one know if a child could drain ones parental account?

 

 

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3 hours ago, Quill said:

 

I was trying to avoud saying, “you must pay me $——— each month on the 10th until you are paid up AND in a position to replace the car,” because her main earning ability is NOW, but will be curtailed once school resumes.

 

How about, 

Daughter, I expect you to pay me $____ each month on the 10th of the month until you are paid up for your trip to France  

I further expect you to take over paying for your own transportation in full. Car Insurance included. A replacement car if needed, and once you have the replacement car, all its upkeep. 

We will continue to pay for your _______ at this time, but gradually over the next couple of years we expect that you will become responsible for 100% of your expenses as an adult person. 

Adding: she could then negotiate for a temporary loan repayments freeze during the school year, but your expectations would be made known. 

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7 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Yes. But have you explained your financial situation and your emotions around spending for frivolity before dealing with debt and upcoming expected expenses to her?

Are your expectations clear to her or only in your own head ?

 

Have you made a legally binding promise to her that you will provide a car for her as you describe and that she will pay you back as described?

 It sounds to me like a bad way to do it. Likely not to turn out the way you want. Likely to exacerbate and extend the same distress you had over the purse. 

She cannot learn to put things like transportation before sushi and iced coffees if you enable her. 

You are the adult. If you want her to put the car first, do not buy it for her. Or if you buy the car, don’t be surprised if she keeps buying doodads. 

By example since forever, she has always seen and heard that you take care of the obligations before the frivolities. But I have thought, she doesn’t yet see that “Latte Factor” thing that many young people dont grasp. They know the money goes away but they arent really thinking its the three bucks here and the ten bucks there. She doesnt yet see, I dont think, that she could make an iced coffee at home for pennies and a small time investment. 

No legally binding promise yet, because there is no car we are yet on point of buying. I don’t see a better option for the car because, honestly, I dont want her situation to suck that badly when it is possible to help. Her college is in the middle of East Podunk, Nowhere, USA. It feels excessively cruel to make that car entirely her problem because the car just did not last. 

Im not saying you dont make a good point, though. 

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4 hours ago, Quill said:

Well, everybody, the cat is out of the bag and she does know how I feel now. She was thrown by my dental care comment and so I just explained it more. She said it sounded like I was raining on her parade and I said some things reflective of what I just said here - that I am finding it hard to be happy for her about the purse because I don’t feel she is in a position to buy fancy purses and I feel resentful because I could not do such things at her age. I think it will all work out and we have a good relationship in general and I won’t be saying another word about the purse from this day forward. But I don’t like conflict and stuff like this is hard, as I said. She lives with such privaledge but she doesn’t really see it because it is just “normal”to her for our economic class and the people we are around the most. 

 

4 hours ago, Quill said:

Probably at regular price, in the $300 range. But “super on sale!” is $60. 

It’s interesting because I have an expensive-purse story from my early 20s. I had some gift money and Coach purses were the thing at that time; all my friends and work associates had one. I rationalized that, hey, this is present money, I am going to go buy one of those Coach purses. So, I went to the expensive mall and looked at the expensive store that sold them and then agonized over each choice. What if this is too small? What if this is too big? What if this doesn’t turn out to be the most versatile color? And on and on, I hemmed and hawed. Then it dawned on me that I did not want a Coach purse, only thought I should have one because that’s what other ladies like me had. So I never did buy one. I probably bought contact lenses instead. Or groceries. 

I think I just wish in my heart that this would have been the same epiphany she would have had. But she doesn’t feel that sting because she is still dependent, so here we are. 

 

4 hours ago, Quill said:

It’s that I am torn - on one hand - HORRAY! She got to study in France! She has a car she can use and that she did not have to buy herself! She does not have to put off things like dental care, which I did. I enrolled in a study program at NIH for dental care when I was 20-something. I am glad. 

I just don’t feel like I’m doing these things so she can buy a fancy purse. 

 

3 hours ago, Quill said:

I am upset because it is a designer purse. If she spent $60 on...something that I thought had lasting importance - maybe like a winter coat or something, if she didn’t have a coat at all - I would not be upset. I am entirely upset because of what a designer purse represents, which, to me, is nothing but image and trying to show off. 

About your first paragraph, there was never any expectation on either of our part that she would pay for her dental care. And I still don’t expect her to pay for that. I just thought she would realize that it’s a big deal. It’s a thousand dollars and I had her arrange a payment plan because it is a lot of dough. It just seems to me like she would realize that but it doesn’t feel like she does. And the car - she knows she will have to pay for the purchase of a replacement car; we have always said so. BUT she is not in a position to buy one herself, so that will be payments to us as well. This is where I feel like yelling, “DON’T you get it?! You need to focus on paying for the stuff that CANNOT WAIT!” 

 

1 hour ago, Quill said:

I know this aspect is a bit of a topic tangent, but when I think of something like a designer purse or shoes as an investment, it is not for a 21-yo young lady. It’s for someone who is interviewing for a career job, maybe. And even then only very maybe, because IME, young ladies who bought designer bags were never making an investment purse for the next ten years. They were getting this Doonie & Burke bag or that Coach purse because it is a status symbol. And in usually a year at most, maybe two for my more frugal co-workers, they would replace it with another designer bag. 

I only know one person who has had a single designer purse for like fifteen years and that is my MIL, and, the ironic thing is, she did not buy it. She would never buy a purse like that. It was a gift from one of the status-conscious DIL’s. 

But I am very biased against purses of any kind. I have a wristlet and a couple tote bags and two purses for special ocassions. That’s it. No investment purses. 

 

I want to support you here, Quill, but you’re not making it easy for me.

I was thinking you were going to say she spent thousands of dollars on a handbag, but $60 is an incredibly low price for a nice handbag, designer or not. I get it that you are resentful of people who buy designer handbags, but I have no idea why you feel so strongly about it. Were you always envious of people who could afford to buy things that you couldn’t afford? You seem very intense and resentful about something that most people don’t even think about. Why did you ever care so much about what brand of handbag other women are carrying? And far more importantly, why are you so jealous of your own daughter for having a nice purse? You also seem resentful that she buys quality makeup and has things you didn’t have when you were her age, but it doesn’t make sense to me at all, because don’t you want your dd to have an easier life than you had? Aren’t you glad that she hasn’t had to struggle for everything?

I understand that you’re worried about finances right now, so maybe you should have taken the time to work out a payment plan so she knew how important it was that she pay you back the money she owes you, so she would have realized long before now that you were serious about it and so you wouldn’t have been building up all of this resentment toward her. I really don’t understand why you are suddenly getting so upset over a $60.00 purchase, particularly when it was for an item she will probably use every day for quite a while to come — but then again, I have never met anyone who was “biased against purses of any kind.”

My biggest issue with this entire thread is that you sound almost jealous of your own daughter, and I don’t understand that.  All I can think is that you’re upset about a far bigger issue in your life that probably has nothing to do with your daughter, and you’re taking out your anger on a $60.00 handbag, because you don’t usually get this upset over something so minor. 

I am sorry that you’re upset, though. I really am.

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3 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

But why?  Is there a really specific reason you and her dad can’t have frank money discussions?  I think those are super important with older children and young adults, TBH, and big lessons are learned if mom and dad are humble enough or transparent enough to share.

 

Its tough if you and your spouse aren’t on the same page on that though, I get it.

Yes. There is. 

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Woah, woah, woah, @Catwoman! You are WAY off! I am not in any way envious of anybody's purse. I don’t want one for myself. I think designer purses are a very silly waste, full stop. Just like many, many, other things that ordinary people - not super-wealthy folks, just regular people - buy. I think purses that cost hundreds of dollars are foolish. Same with lipsticks that cost $30. I am not jealous that she has these things; I think she is NOT in a position to buy them. And she does not appear to realize it yet. Although now she might. 

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3 minutes ago, Quill said:

Woah, woah, woah, @Catwoman! You are WAY off! I am not in any way envious of anybody's purse. I don’t want one for myself. I think designer purses are a very silly waste, full stop. Just like many, many, other things that ordinary people - not super-wealthy folks, just regular people - buy. I think purses that cost hundreds of dollars are foolish. Same with lipsticks that cost $30. I am not jealous that she has these things; I think she is NOT in a position to buy them. And she does not appear to realize it yet. Although now she might. 

 

Well, you actually posted that you are resentful because you couldn’t do such things at her age.

Your posts are incredibly judgmental toward people who have different priorities and make different choices than you do. You’re assuming that women who buy designer purses — including your own daughter and her friends — are basically nothing more than shallow, wasteful status-seekers, and I think that is a pretty big (and mean) assumption to make. 

Why is this such a big deal to you? It’s a handbag and it was only $60.00. She might have spent $60 on a night out with her friends and have nothing to show for it. As it is, she didn’t buy a handbag until she saw one on a deeply discounted clearance price. That sounds pretty frugal to me. She got a quality item at a great price.

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Quill, I totally get it.

I do think that some more directness might help instead of letting it be something she doesn't see because it is normal for her. I don't know if I'll be any better off when my kids are in young adulthood. They see us buying things we want or going out to eat now and just think that's how things are. But they don't see that it's not how things were when I was 19, 20, etc. Of course, they know that I joined the military right out of high school so that I could support myself and was totally financially independent by 18, so maybe that will lodge itself somewhere in their brains. Maybe.

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1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

Well, you actually posted that you are resentful because you couldn’t do such things at her age.

Your posts are incredibly judgmental toward people who have different priorities and make different choices than you do. You’re assuming that women who buy designer purses — including your own daughter and her friends — are basically nothing more than shallow, wasteful status-seekers, and I think that is a pretty big (and mean) assumption to make. 

Why is this such a big deal to you? It’s a handbag and it was only $60.00. She might have spent $60 on a night out with her friends and have nothing to show for it. As it is, she didn’t buy a handbag until she saw one on a deeply discounted clearance price. That sounds pretty frugal to me. She got a quality item at a great price.

Buying a $60 handbag one doesn't need is never frugal. It's especially not frugal if you have necessary expenses coming around the bend that need to be budgeted for. It's not resentful for a parent to point that out to their kid when the parent is the one fronting the loan for the necessary expenses.

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And it's not just a matter of different priorities. It's a matter of owing someone money and spending it on a luxury item instead. That might make even the best of us resentful, or at least a bit perturbed at that person's "different priorities."

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15 minutes ago, Quill said:

By example since forever, she has always seen and heard that you take care of the obligations before the frivolities. But I have thought, she doesn’t yet see that “Latte Factor” thing that many young people dont grasp. They know the money goes away but they arent really thinking its the three bucks here and the ten bucks there. She doesnt yet see, I dont think, that she could make an iced coffee at home for pennies and a small time investment. 

No legally binding promise yet, because there is no car we are yet on point of buying. I don’t see a better option for the car because, honestly, I dont want her situation to suck that badly when it is possible to help. Her college is in the middle of East Podunk, Nowhere, USA. It feels excessively cruel to make that car entirely her problem because the car just did not last. 

Im not saying you dont make a good point, though. 

 

Ok. I hear you.   But how are you then going to deal with it when she is spending frequently for doodads that you may not even get for splurges for yourself, whilst you have added getting her a car on top of France trip debt?

 I don’t think most kids learn how to budget by example without explicit training anymore than they learn about geology just by standing on the earth surface every day. 

I am planning to sit down with my ds and work out a budget for him based on what he could get if he had a minimum wage job, and on ‘as if’ he were paying all his own expenses. I am not going to limit him to that, but do plan to make it clear where the Bank of Mom is supporting a much more luxurious lifestyle than he would be able to manage himself   I am not sure if that will help with learning, but I will try. I know he has no realistic sense of expenses at this time. And I know he won’t just absorb it from the zeitgeist. 

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31 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I want to support you here, Quill, but you’re not making it easy for me.

I was thinking you were going to say she spent thousands of dollars on a handbag, but $60 is an incredibly low price for a nice handbag, designer or not. I get it that you are resentful of people who buy designer handbags, but I have no idea why you feel so strongly about it. Were you always envious of people who could afford to buy things that you couldn’t afford? You seem very intense and resentful about something that most people don’t even think about. Why did you ever care so much about what brand of handbag other women are carrying? And far more importantly, why are you so jealous of your own daughter for having a nice purse? You also seem resentful that she buys quality makeup and has things you didn’t have when you were her age, but it doesn’t make sense to me at all, because don’t you want your dd to have an easier life than you had? Aren’t you glad that she hasn’t had to struggle for everything?

I understand that you’re worried about finances right now, so maybe you should have taken the time to work out a payment plan so she knew how important it was that she pay you back the money she owes you, so she would have realized long before now that you were serious about it and so you wouldn’t have been building up all of this resentment toward her. I really don’t understand why you are suddenly getting so upset over a $60.00 purchase, particularly when it was for an item she will probably use every day for quite a while to come — but then again, I have never met anyone who was “biased against purses of any kind.”

My biggest issue with this entire thread is that you sound almost jealous of your own daughter, and I don’t understand that.  All I can think is that you’re upset about a far bigger issue in your life that probably has nothing to do with your daughter, and you’re taking out your anger on a $60.00 handbag, because you don’t usually get this upset over something so minor. 

I am sorry that you’re upset, though. I really am.

 

While I understand what you are saying here Cat, and I agree with a lot of it, I would remind you that Quill is experiencing something that you have not experienced.  Cross cultural communication is a challenging thing.  

Poor or middle class or affluent or rich.  It’s  not good or bad but there are cultural values and norms attached to each.  

My kids are the first generation out of generational poverty.  I don’t resent them but I am navigating uncharted waters with them at times.  I do feel wistful that they don’t get the same level of street smarts and the level of frugality that can only be born of sheer necessity.  I also feel incredibly proud that they have a sense of security and freedom that I never did as a child.  I realized long ago I couldn’t provide them with the advantages I wanted them to have AND the same degree of struggle, that for better or worse, formed me into who I am.  This means that while I am incredibly close to my sons there are some things they may struggle to fully understand about me and some things I will probably struggle to fully understand about them.  

I suspect the reaction Quill is having is a visceral one that she really can’t edit fully.  She can shift her perspective, she can try to be more proactive about letting her daughter make her own financial decisions but she can’t just stop feeling this way simply because she’s told it doesn’t make sense to someone from a different economic class than she grew up in.  

It’s easier for you to relate to Quill’s daughter on this than Quill because of the very real issue of socioeconomic class.  

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3 hours ago, Quill said:

I am upset because it is a designer purse. If she spent $60 on...something that I thought had lasting importance - maybe like a winter coat or something, if she didn’t have a coat at all - I would not be upset. I am entirely upset because of what a designer purse represents, which, to me, is nothing but image and trying to show off. 

About your first paragraph, there was never any expectation on either of our part that she would pay for her dental care. And I still don’t expect her to pay for that. I just thought she would realize that it’s a big deal. It’s a thousand dollars and I had her arrange a payment plan because it is a lot of dough. It just seems to me like she would realize that but it doesn’t feel like she does. And the car - she knows she will have to pay for the purchase of a replacement car; we have always said so. BUT she is not in a position to buy one herself, so that will be payments to us as well. This is where I feel like yelling, “DON’T you get it?! You need to focus on paying for the stuff that CANNOT WAIT!” 

(Bolded)

Is that why she wanted it? To show off? If so, your parental sensibilities are understandably offended.

However, if she portrayed that she got the person because she likes it -- and it was on sale -- then you may be far off base. Oddly enough, there are people who legitimately like the look and style of purses that happen to be designer brand. And it's been my personal experience that, with bags, you get what you pay for. DH insisted I buy a ridiculously priced designer purse about 10 years ago. It is STLL in great condition -- three kids (and their pacifiers, crackers, crushed juice boxes, etc.) later, and while the inside lining is a bit on the dim side, it looks great and is holding up. Whereas, prior to that I was intent on buying cheap and serviceable, I had to buy a new purse at least every year. When I did the math, that one-time bigger purchase saved me money in the long run. It can be worth it. And my having a designer bag has zero to do with me wanting to "showing off"  ?

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2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Well, you actually posted that you are resentful because you couldn’t do such things at her age.

Your posts are incredibly judgmental toward people who have different priorities and make different choices than you do. You’re assuming that women who buy designer purses — including your own daughter and her friends — are basically nothing more than shallow, wasteful status-seekers, and I think that is a pretty big (and mean) assumption to make. 

Why is this such a big deal to you? It’s a handbag and it was only $60.00. She might have spent $60 on a night out with her friends and have nothing to show for it. As it is, she didn’t buy a handbag until she saw one on a deeply discounted clearance price. That sounds pretty frugal to me. She got a quality item at a great price.

I am resentful because I dont feel that the point of reaching a level of comfort for my kids that I did not enjoy was so that my kid could buy unnecessary things. Im thrilled my kids have many awesome opportunities i did not have. But i dont value branded goods. 

And don’t kid yourself, Cat. Why is there such a thing as a Lexus when it is essentially the same thing as a Ford? It’s because a Lexus is a status symbol while a Ford is not. I don’t care if my neighbor buys a Lexus. But my daughter cant because she cant afford one. 

I dont care what ALL women use to carry their keys and spare tissues, but I care what my still-dependant kid uses because her financial choices impact me! 

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5 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

 

While I understand what you are saying here Cat, and I agree with a lot of it, I would remind you that Quill is experiencing something that you have not experienced.  Cross cultural communication is a challenging thing.  

Poor or middle class or affluent or rich.  It’s  not good or bad but there are cultural values and norms attached to each.  

My kids are the first generation out of generational poverty.  I don’t resent them but I am navigating uncharted waters with them at times.  I do feel wistful that they don’t get the same level of street smarts and the level of frugality that can only be born of sheet necessity.  I also feel incredibly proud that they have a sense of security and freedom that I never did as a child.  I realized long ago I couldn’t provide them with the advantages I wanted them to have AND the same degree of struggle, that for better or worse, formed me into who I am.  This means that while I am incredibly close to my sons there are some things they may struggle to fully understand about me and some things I will probably struggle to fully understand about them.  

I suspect the reaction Quill is having is a visceral one that she really can’t edit fully.  She can shift her perspective, she can try to be more proactive about letting her daughter make her own financial decisions but she can’t just stop feeling this way simply because she’s told it doesn’t make sense to someone from a different economic class than she grew up in.  

 

I may be wrong or imposing some of my own issues onto how I have read this, but I think the problem is much greater than a divide between generations. I think Quill fears for her own future economic stability. The purse isn’t seen as being a merely a doodad that Quill could not afford when she was her daughter’s age. It is being experienced as spendthrift behavior at a time when Quill feels a current, not just residue from childhood, economic uncertainty, worry, precariousness. 

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1 hour ago, Quill said:

I feel like I might not have made this aspect clear, but she pays for her own stuff. She pays for oil changes and gas in the car, though we have paid for repairs and new tires. She pays for iced coffees or sushi or movies with her bf. She buys her own makeup and skin care and any clothing that isn’t a necessity like bras and underwear. The thing with all those expenses is, though yes, she pays for them, paying more money for those things means less money available to buy the new car and pay the debt from France, kwim? 

I don’t understand what you mean by she buys the car and we put money in her account. How is that her buying it? The way I intend to handle the car is that we will buy it outright, preferably from a private seller, and then she will immediately pay us back a “down payment,” which will probably be around $500, and then pay is back some each month, possibly culminating with a final payment for the balance after she has full time employment next year. This would be so we do not need a loan, which would require more expensive insurance. (We pay all insurance at present.) 

I'm meaning that she would be the one to take out the loan. You would put a set amount of $$ in her acct each month for the payment, but she is the one who would take out the loan and be responsible for making the payment. Because the loan would be in her name, she wouldn't have yet another thing to pay you back for. 

If I'm reading this right, part of your frustration is that she's not paying you back and instead is spending her money on things for herself instead of what she owes. I'm trying to eliminate the part where she owes you more money. I can understand not wanting to take out a loan that requires more insurance and will save money, so this idea probably wouldn't work for you.

It's a little trickier when there's only so much money in the pot and so many different places it needs to go. If she made the down payment on the new car herself, then she couldn't use that money to pay you back for France. It's a cycle that you'll be in until she is able to get a full time job.

 

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1 minute ago, Pen said:

 

I may be wrong or imposing some of my own issues onto how I have read this, but I think the problem is much greater than a divide between generations. I think Quill fears for her own future economic stability. The purse isn’t seen as being a merely a doodad that Quill could not afford when she was her daughter’s age. It is being experienced as spendthrift behavior at a time when Quill feels a current, not just residue from childhood, economic uncertainty, worry, precariousness. 

 

I get that.  We are living in somewhat perilous times economically and many families are facing the reality of losing economic ground.  What I am saying is that this is informed by Quill’s experiences with money from birth all the way to now.  It’s not that now and worry about the future is not relevant, but that the paradigm from which Quill faces whatever the future holds is guided by lessons she learned decades before she was Quill, mother.  

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3 minutes ago, Quill said:

I am resentful because I dont feel that the point of reaching a level of comfort for my kids that I did not enjoy was so that my kid could buy unnecessary things. Im thrilled my kids have many awesome opportunities i did not have. But i dont value branded goods. 

And don’t kid yourself, Cat. Why is there such a thing as a Lexus when it is essentially the same thing as a Ford? It’s because a Lexus is a status symbol while a Ford is not. I don’t care if my neighbor buys a Lexus. But my daughter cant because she cant afford one. 

I dont care what ALL women use to carry their keys and spare tissues, but I care what my still-dependant kid uses because her financial choices impact me! 

 

But maybe your dd does value branded goods. And so do her friends. And so do a lot of other people. Because a lot of those branded goods are actually better looking and better quality. And most women carry handbags every single day, so spending a bit more on a better quality bag can end up being the best value in the long run.

And are you seriously saying that there’s no difference between a Ford and a Lexus? Many people buy luxury cars because they are nicer, made with better quality and more attractive materials, and because they drive and handle far better than less expensive options. 

You are far more judgmental than I ever realized. You resent a lot of people just because they choose to spend their money differently than you do. 

Look, I understand that you want your dd to be wise about her spending. I also understand that she owes you money and that you want her to pay you back. Those things make sense. But judging people because they carry a certain brand of handbag or drive a particular kind of car? And judging your own daughter because she values nice makeup and handbags? That makes no sense to me. Just because people have different priorities doesn’t make them shallow and status-seeking. Maybe they’re very nice people who just happen to like things that you don’t care about. You seem to resent a lot of people just because they choose to spend their money differently than you do.

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1 minute ago, Pen said:

 

I may be wrong or imposing some of my own issues onto how I have read this, but I think the problem is much greater than a divide between generations. I think Quill fears for her own future economic stability. The purse isn’t seen as being a merely a doodad that Quill could not afford when she was her daughter’s age. It is being experienced as spendthrift behavior at a time when Quill feels a current, not just residue from childhood, economic uncertainty, worry, precariousness. 

YES. Every day now, I go through a set of mental gymnastics: should I put my youngest in school so I can work FT? But then I will have one and a half jobs, plus homemaking. And then ds may suffer from the lack of caregiving his sibs had. So maybe it is best just to keep more of what we now make. But what if xyz happens with dh’s work? Then i will have to work FT. And then xyz will be a bigger problem...

so I did not have brain space for “see my new purse?” 

But it is also not wrong the cross class thing. 

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20 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Well, you actually posted that you are resentful because you couldn’t do such things at her age.

Your posts are incredibly judgmental toward people who [live in your home, have a relatively low income, owe you money, and have some large impending expenses] have different priorities and make different choices than you do. You’re assuming that women who buy designer purses — including your own daughter and her friends — are basically nothing more than shallow, wasteful status-seekers, and I think that is a pretty big (and mean) assumption to make. 

Why is this such a big deal to you? It’s a handbag and it was only $60.00. She might have spent $60 on a night out with her friends and have nothing to show for it. As it is, she didn’t buy a handbag until she saw one on a deeply discounted clearance price. That sounds pretty frugal to me. She got a quality item at a great price.

 

I get the feeling that maybe you enjoy a designer handbag in your life. Which is totally great, because I imagine your income supports that little luxury and that's wonderful.

However, I think you need to insert a few more words into your sentence above.

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4 hours ago, Danae said:

I think you should set up a repayment schedule for the money she owes you. As long as she makes her payments on time what she does with the rest of her money is her choice. Having you second-guessing her choices and justifying it because she owes you money is a recipe for resentment on both sides.

 

4 hours ago, Quill said:

I guess this is why it is an issue, because she knows what she owes me and she knows that if she has to replace the car, she will owe me still more, so, TO ME, it seems like she should be on an utter wallet fast until she has paid off her debt and gotten ahead of the car issue. Then buy the stupid purse if you must.

She knows that once school is back in session, in one month, her earning ability will be halted or severly curtailed until winter break. Yet it doesn’t press upon her and that is where I’m feeling put out. 

In general I feel under enormous financial pressure because of some other things I can neither discuss with her nor mention here and I’m just mad that it’s not on her radar screen that she should be paying financial attention to the imperative things and ignore the doodads for now. 

I was trying to avoud saying, “you must pay me $——— each month on the 10th until you are paid up AND in a position to replace the car,” because her main earning ability is NOW, but will be curtailed once school resumes.

 

Kids who have never lived on their own and have never felt the burden of having to pay monthly bills just aren't going to feel that burden. The burden is one of the key pieces of the puzzle to teach them how to think about money and how to make choices. For right now, I think the only way for her to really know and feel it is to have her sit down and think through a repayment plan and come to you with the plan--and then the two of you negotiate until you agree on it. You also probably need to walk her through her future expenses--how to save for a car each month, how to set aside money for college spending or whatever she needs to put money aside for. Have her think about her budget for the next school year and come to you with what she thinks her financial goals are, and then help her refine what she's not yet thinking about. I think it's unrealistic to think she'll not spend any money on her own stuff until she pays you back if you haven't discussed that before. She's just not going to understand the pressure you feel or the choices you make (she may not even notice that you are not buying "wants" right now while you're in this season of being weighed down by her dental expenses, covering her unexpected France expenses, and unseen financial needs.) In a kid's mind--sure, dental expenses are a lot, but mom/dad *have* the money if it's spread out a bit. France was expensive, but when it was needed, mom/dad had the money to make it work. She doesn't see that you have to sacrifice to make that happen because she's not privvy to your full financial picture. It's still kind of magical to a kid's mind. She still sees mom/dad as her financial safety net, so she doesn't have to make hard choices. She doesn't yet understand hard choices in this realm. Or, maybe like someone else said, she does--and she looks at this summer as a time for the "release valve," to enjoy some financial freedom before the constraints of fall. You and she just have very different expectations, and the only way to reconcile them is to really walk her through the bigger picture, find out what she's thinking and expecting, and set up some kind of payment plan. That plan could mean paying some now, not paying through the school year, and then paying again next summer starting on X date--whatever works. But agreeing on something will really help. 

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17 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

 

While I understand what you are saying here Cat, and I agree with a lot of it, I would remind you that Quill is experiencing something that you have not experienced.  Cross cultural communication is a challenging thing.  

Poor or middle class or affluent or rich.  It’s  not good or bad but there are cultural values and norms attached to each.  

My kids are the first generation out of generational poverty.  I don’t resent them but I am navigating uncharted waters with them at times.  I do feel wistful that they don’t get the same level of street smarts and the level of frugality that can only be born of sheer necessity.  I also feel incredibly proud that they have a sense of security and freedom that I never did as a child.  I realized long ago I couldn’t provide them with the advantages I wanted them to have AND the same degree of struggle, that for better or worse, formed me into who I am.  This means that while I am incredibly close to my sons there are some things they may struggle to fully understand about me and some things I will probably struggle to fully understand about them.  

I suspect the reaction Quill is having is a visceral one that she really can’t edit fully.  She can shift her perspective, she can try to be more proactive about letting her daughter make her own financial decisions but she can’t just stop feeling this way simply because she’s told it doesn’t make sense to someone from a different economic class than she grew up in.  

It’s easier for you to relate to Quill’s daughter on this than Quill because of the very real issue of socioeconomic class.  

 

I think you’re probably right — I can definitely relate better to Quill’s dd than I can to Quill in this situation. But if Quill is raising her dd in an environment where nice houses and nice cars and nice makeup and nice handbags are the norm, I’m not sure why she would think her dd wouldn’t want those things, too. And it’s not like Quill’s dd has been deprived of things — the trip to France wasn’t exactly a super-frugal thing — so spending $60 on a handbag probably doesn’t seem like a big deal to her dd. I’ll bet her dd was thrilled that she got it at such a huge discount.

It just seems like it’s okay to spend a substantial amount of money on a trip to France, but it’s not okay to spend $60.00 on a handbag, and the only reason that one thing was okay and the other wasn’t is because Quill valued the trip to France, but she doesn’t value the handbag. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I may be wrong or imposing some of my own issues onto how I have read this, but I think the problem is much greater than a divide between generations. I think Quill fears for her own future economic stability. The purse isn’t seen as being a merely a doodad that Quill could not afford when she was her daughter’s age. It is being experienced as spendthrift behavior at a time when Quill feels a current, not just residue from childhood, economic uncertainty, worry, precariousness. 

 

If that’s the case, it’s certainly understandable that she was upset, but if she hasn’t been open with her dd about the family’s current financial situation, it’s not really fair to get upset with her dd about the handbag. Her dd may not realize that anything has changed or that her mom is very stressed over money right now.

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6 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

But maybe your dd does value branded goods. And so do her friends. And so do a lot of other people. Because a lot of those branded goods are actually better looking and better quality. And most women carry handbags every single day, so spending a bit more on a better quality bag can end up being the best value in the long run.

And are you seriously saying that there’s no difference between a Ford and a Lexus? Many people buy luxury cars because they are nicer, made with better quality and more attractive materials, and because they drive and handle far better than less expensive options. 

You are far more judgmental than I ever realized. You resent a lot of people just because they choose to spend their money differently than you do. 

Look, I understand that you want your dd to be wise about her spending. I also understand that she owes you money and that you want her to pay you back. Those things make sense. But judging people because they carry a certain brand of handbag or drive a particular kind of car? And judging your own daughter because she values nice makeup and handbags? That makes no sense to me. Just because people have different priorities doesn’t make them shallow and status-seeking. Maybe they’re very nice people who just happen to like things that you don’t care about. You seem to resent a lot of people just because they choose to spend their money differently than you do.

 

I'm just going to be straight, I don't know you or your finances, but over the years I've come to believe that you are wealthy. This assumption of mine stems from the way you think and respond to posts having to do with resources. I hope you can hear me, I do not think this is a bad thing or that there is anything wrong with it. I am pointing this out because I'm trying to emphasize that the cross-class conflicts in the way you think and the way those of us who either have less or grew up with less think are palpable. It's the reason you are fixated on Quill's opinion of brands while some of us can relate to her down to the letter. I'm not sure there's anything that any of us can do to bridge that gap in our thinking other than acknowledge it.

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20 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Ok. I hear you.   But how are you then going to deal with it when she is spending frequently for doodads that you may not even get for splurges for yourself, whilst you have added getting her a car on top of France trip debt?

 I don’t think most kids learn how to budget by example without explicit training anymore than they learn about geology just by standing on the earth surface every day. 

I am planning to sit down with my ds and work out a budget for him based on what he could get if he had a minimum wage job, and on ‘as if’ he were paying all his own expenses. I am not going to limit him to that, but do plan to make it clear where the Bank of Mom is supporting a much more luxurious lifestyle than he would be able to manage himself   I am not sure if that will help with learning, but I will try. I know he has no realistic sense of expenses at this time. And I know he won’t just absorb it from the zeitgeist. 

The second paragraph is what we've done. It worked well for our oldest, seems to be working (mostly) for our younger daughter, and we'll see with our son in a year when he starts college.

DH told each of them how many $$ we could help them with, then he set up a budget, running the numbers so each child could see what they would need to come up with on their own. Oldest dd got lots of scholarships, younger dd choose to work. I think ds will do a combo of the two.

Each year, the student assumes more responsibility towards bills. We transfer money into each checking acct for items we said we would pay for. The kids are then responsible for ensuring the bills get paid. There have been some close calls, but stuff has been paid on time. The first year we cover almost everything but the tuition and books. The second year, we stop paying for gas and repairs on their car. The third year, they pay their own insurance and cell phone bills. This is all built into their budget and much to the kids' chagrin, DH goes over it with them frequently. I don't think they really internalize the costs and how to budget until they are forced to handle financial stuff themselves.

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16 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I think you’re probably right — I can definitely relate better to Quill’s dd than I can to Quill in this situation. But if Quill is raising her dd in an environment where nice houses and nice cars and nice makeup and nice handbags are the norm, I’m not sure why she would think her dd wouldn’t want those things, too. And it’s not like Quill’s dd has been deprived of things — the trip to France wasn’t exactly a super-frugal thing — so spending $60 on a handbag probably doesn’t seem like a big deal to her dd. I’ll bet her dd was thrilled that she got it at such a huge discount.

It just seems like it’s okay to spend a substantial amount of money on a trip to France, but it’s not okay to spend $60.00 on a handbag, and the only reason that one thing was okay and the other wasn’t is because Quill valued the trip to France, but she doesn’t value the handbag. 

 

 

I want to stress that I don't think it is wrong for Quill's daughter to have different priorities than Quill.  It's also not wrong for Quill to not understand the allure of things that were long inconceivable to her.  

The example I usually use to describe a cross-cultural gulf around socioeconomic class is that when I was first married, I was convinced we were headed for disaster, financially anyway.  I really believed this.  Why?  Because my husband ate gobs and gobs of name brand boxed cereal.  He'd come home with like 5 boxes at a time and I was just like "what makes you think we can afford this?!"  It had never occurred to me that ordinary people could afford such "extravagances".  I was baffled.  He was baffled by me.  And why not?  I was worried about cereal.  

Was my husband wrong to like cereal, something his very affluent family could afford in spades?  Nope.  Was I wrong for thinking boxed cereal was way more expensive than grits and eggs?  Nope.  We were both right.  We could afford cereal.  He could also learn to eat cheaper and more filling things.  We were able to meet in the middle.  I now eat Cheerios sometimes and he now appreciates the relative value of an egg on toast.  

ETA:  I knew full well going into the marriage that I'd have a cross-class relationship with my husband.  We came from vastly different places.  What I was not prepared for was having that with my children.  At the end of the day, it's a very bridgable gap but it's not an easy peasy one for most people.  It takes some degree of flexibility from all directions.  

 

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@Catwoman guess you don’t think you’re judgemental about people who don’t value expensive branded things. *rolleyes*

Do not kid yourself. There are varying price points on all goods and the larger reason why one thing is $100 when another of the same thing is $20 is image. There’s no reason, for example, why a toddler needs to wear Nike tennis shoes or an UnderArmor swimsuit. I grant you, they might have a cuter design or what-not, but no parent buys those things because it’s performance-necessary. 

For the sake of full disclosure, I own some things that are nicer or branded things. I have been known to choose certain brands of some things because I believe it is worthwhile. Years ago when I wore contact lenses, I always bought a certain brand of sunglasses and I was very careful with them and I would keep a pair for close to a decade. But I also liked them because they were cool

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5 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

I believe the lost point here is that it is irresponsible to purchase anything unnecessary when one is indebted to another. 

Words like resentful and jealous are harsh, and whether or not they're applicable can be set aside to actually consider the fact that at the most basic level, it's certainly *disrespectful* to knowingly fail to pay a debt to a person (whose roof you're living under!) while you boast about a great deal on an item you don't have to have in the first place. 

 

Would you really expect your kid to not buy anything at all if she owed you money until the entire debt was paid? Would you really be that harsh? 

If Quill’s dd had agreed to pay her a certain amount of money every week and this week she told Quill she wasn’t paying her because she’d bought the handbag, I would agree that she shouldn’t have purchased it without asking Quill first, but it doesn’t really sound like there was any kind of payment schedule at all, so the dd probably assumed that Quill was in no hurry to be paid back. 

I don’t think it’s fair to judge the dd if Quill never made repayment a priority.

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To be fair, it is quite common for a young adult to make various mistakes before realizing what a sensible purchase is.  I made them.  Even though I didn't have two extra cents to rub together, I managed to screw up in the process of learning.  For example, someone introduced me to some "great sales" and I bought some very discounted stuff that were still more expensive than other reasonable options.  Some of them I regretted (mainly because I rarely or never used them), but most of them were just steps to learning how to be smarter about money.

So I am not on board with being angry about a $60 designer purse, but I do believe it's appropriate to have a budgeting lesson / assignment, especially given that dd owes money to Mom.

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My impression is that she's not expected to pay for enough, so she doesn't really grasp the value and cost of things.  Based on the frivolous items listed throughout the thread and what Mom and Dad are paying for, I think she should be expected to contribute more financially to her own life.

My adult daughters are opposites financially.  One, who makes much more money, is frugal and far sighted by nature.  The other is impulsive and emotional.  My husband grew up middle class and avoids confrontation, I grew up poor at first and then just barely middle class and come from a family who knows how to tell it like it is, like it or not.  I would've had impulsive kid paying more earlier on and then cut her off earlier if husband could've emotionally handled it.  Now that she's on her own because we moved to another state and she moved a couple of states over for a job, it's amazing how her priorities instantly changed and she's suddenly more frugal. Not that we don't help sometimes with some medical bills and moving expenses, we do, but she's made quite a change in the last few months living on her own. 

One thing I often wonder about is if people who are afraid to let their kids struggle some are still resentful of their own struggles and have never come to deeply value the struggles they had and the life lessons it taught them.  I value what I learned the hard way after I had to been warned but didn't listen.  Do some people not experience that?

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6 minutes ago, sassenach said:

I'm just going to be straight, I don't know you or your finances, but over the years I've come to believe that you are wealthy. This assumption of mine stems from the way you think and respond to posts having to do with resources. I hope you can hear me, I do not think this is a bad thing or that there is anything wrong with it. I am pointing this out because I'm trying to emphasize that the cross-class conflicts in the way you think and the way those of us who either have less or grew up with less think are palpable. It's the reason you are fixated on Quill's opinion of brands while some of us can relate to her down to the letter. I'm not sure there's anything that any of us can do to bridge that gap in our thinking other than acknowledge it.

 

My reason for posting in this thread is because I felt sorry for Quill’s dd. It seemed that Quill was far more upset with her than seemed reasonable over a single purchase. I was wondering if there was a deeper issue, and apparently there is — and there also seems to be some financial stress in the home right now. 

But the thing is, Quill’s dd doesn’t seem to know about it. How is she supposed to know that she needs to economize if she doesn’t even know there is a problem? And how is she supposed to know it’s important to repay Quill the money she owes her if Quill doesn’t have her pay a certain amount every week? One minute the kid is on a great trip to France, and the next she’s in trouble for spending $60.00. How would she not be confused by that?

 

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1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

 

Would you really expect your kid to not buy anything at all if she owed you money until the entire debt was paid? Would you really be that harsh? 

If Quill’s dd had agreed to pay her a certain amount of money every week and this week she told Quill she wasn’t paying her because she’d bought the handbag, I would agree that she shouldn’t have purchased it without asking Quill first, but it doesn’t really sound like there was any kind of payment schedule at all, so the dd probably assumed that Quill was in no hurry to be paid back. 

I don’t think it’s fair to judge the dd if Quill never made repayment a priority.

 

That's kind of the point of her posting. In her world (and mine), the paying back process would have already commenced. I think she's pretty clear on the fact that her daughter isn't like, "screw you, mom! I'm buying this bag!" It's more like, why doesn't my daughter think of all of these debts and expenses before making an unnecessary purchase? When you have limited resources, you must rank your priorities. This is something that those who live or have lived without do on almost an instinctual level. I don't remember ever being taught to do it and I bet Quill doesn't either. But our kids who have grown up in better circumstances are completely lacking this instinct and it's jarring, to be honest.

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When I was 19 I bought my first car that was 100% for status symbol reasons.  I borrowed money from my parents.   I was that girl, buying a Coach purse for $100 and ONLY Lancome make up.  I had so much clothes that I was giving bags and bags away every time seasons changed.  But I also did worked almost full time, I paid 100% of my college costs and my subsequent car.  And I eventually paid my parents back.

By the time I was mid-20's I was investing in RE and $100 purses were no longer in my world.  Now, a few decades later, my husband sold that $100 Coach purse for $75 on ebay.  My cars are much more sensible and I rarely buy new clothes.  (Although, I AM going on a shopping spree once I loose the weight)

So.....you would think I would be all sympathetic with Quill's daughter.....but if my kid was doing that kind of thing, I would be more than annoyed.  I would be pissed.  Bc now, at 40+ I can see the foolishness and irresponsibility of those type of decisions. It's also incomprehensible to me now to spend money on ANYTHING if you owe money already.  But if I am honest with myself, I can only see how a 20 yr would be making those decisions.

I would NOT be able to keep my mouth shut (and I didn't think Quill's comment was that terrible) and I would be doing a lot of hoping and praying that once my child's brain fully matures, all my teachings will resurface in their minds and they will be on path to make smart financial decisions.

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9 minutes ago, Quill said:

@Catwoman guess you don’t think you’re judgemental about people who don’t value expensive branded things. *rolleyes*

Do not kid yourself. There are varying price points on all goods and the larger reason why one thing is $100 when another of the same thing is $20 is image. There’s no reason, for example, why a toddler needs to wear Nike tennis shoes or an UnderArmor swimsuit. I grant you, they might have a cuter design or what-not, but no parent buys those things because it’s performance-necessary. 

For the sake of full disclosure, I own some things that are nicer or branded things. I have been known to choose certain brands of some things because I believe it is worthwhile. Years ago when I wore contact lenses, I always bought a certain brand of sunglasses and I was very careful with them and I would keep a pair for close to a decade. But I also liked them because they were cool

 

Actually, I don’t care whether anyone values branded things. My issue is that you seem to be judging people’s character based on their purchasing decisions, and that you are even judging your own daughter simply because she values something you don’t.

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42 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

 

Would you really expect your kid to not buy anything at all if she owed you money until the entire debt was paid? Would you really be that harsh? 

If Quill’s dd had agreed to pay her a certain amount of money every week and this week she told Quill she wasn’t paying her because she’d bought the handbag, I would agree that she shouldn’t have purchased it without asking Quill first, but it doesn’t really sound like there was any kind of payment schedule at all, so the dd probably assumed that Quill was in no hurry to be paid back. 

I don’t think it’s fair to judge the dd if Quill never made repayment a priority.

Look. Here’s the actual financial situation of my kid. <edited>

so, given that picture, the frivolities should be minimized until she is on the other side of indebtedness and has the car situation squared away. 

Please dont quote this part. 

Edited by Quill
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2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Actually, I don’t care whether anyone values branded things. My issue is that you seem to be judging people’s character based on their purchasing decisions, and that you are even judging your own daughter simply because she values something you don’t.

She is dependant and still living under our care. It’s not the lady down the street. I’m pretty sure most parents strive to have their children share their values. 

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3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Actually, I don’t care whether anyone values branded things. My issue is that you seem to be judging people’s character based on their purchasing decisions, and that you are even judging your own daughter simply because she values something you don’t.

 

Once again, you are very much, and I'm going to say intentionally, miscategorizing why Quill was upset about the purchase. I'm not sure why you are choosing to do that other than you felt personally judged. It's been clarified ad nauseam.

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14 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

If that’s the case, it’s certainly understandable that she was upset, but if she hasn’t been open with her dd about the family’s current financial situation, it’s not really fair to get upset with her dd about the handbag. Her dd may not realize that anything has changed or that her mom is very stressed over money right now.

 

I agree with you that Quill needs to be open with her dd if she wants her dd to understand. 

I n the threads about door paint color, the house that Quill apparently lives in, to me with my modest means, shouts “wealthy!”  It may be a modest home in Quill’s neighborhood.  I don’t know.  But it is not a house that suggests to me that a $60 purse would be out of range  for its inhabitants.

I don’t know how her dd can understand that there are financial worries with out being explicitly included in that knowledge. 

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1 minute ago, Quill said:

She is dependant and still living under our care. It’s not the lady down the street. I’m pretty sure most parents strive to have their children share their values

Core values, yes, but preferences, no.

Hate to think of how many fights I'd have with my daughter over nail polish, which I think is the most frivolous purchase on the planet, LOL.

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3 minutes ago, Quill said:

Please dont quote this part. 

 

I didn’t quote the financial stuff — I just wanted to to know which post I was responding to, so I quoted that tiny little bit. 

Please don’t think I believe you’re wrong for wanting your dd to be more sensible! If you had told me that you’d gone over the finances with her and helped her come up with a budget for paying all of her debts and she realized she couldn’t afford to buy anything new for a while, and then she went out and bought the handbag anyway, I would have absolutely agreed that she shouldn’t have bought it. The thing is, it doesn’t appear that she realized how important this is to you. 

Now that you’ve explained more about the money issues, I understand why you’re worried and upset. I just hope you can share that with your dd so you and she can get on the same page. 

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It sounds like Quill is OK with her daughter spending on *some* "wants," just not the ones that she considers both frivolous and expensive.

I think it's natural to have different views about which wants are worth spending on and which aren't.  It's possible dd considers some of mom's purchases frivolous, not that it's any of her business to say so.  ?

On the positive side, this issue will pass soon, as long as Quill doesn't lend dd a bunch more $$ and dd pays off the debt in a reasonable amount of time.

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6 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Once again, you are very much, and I'm going to say intentionally, miscategorizing why Quill was upset about the purchase. I'm not sure why you are choosing to do that other than you felt personally judged. It's been clarified ad nauseam.

 

Her posts weren’t just about the purchase. She generalized about other people she knew, as well. 

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8 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I agree with you that Quill needs to be open with her dd if she wants her dd to understand. 

I n the threads about door paint color, the house that Quill apparently lives in, to me with my modest means, shouts “wealthy!”  It may be a modest home in Quill’s neighborhood.  I don’t know.  But it is not a house that suggests to me that a $60 purse would be out of range  for its inhabitants.

I don’t know how her dd can understand that there are financial worries with out being explicitly included in that knowledge. 

 

Yes. This. Exactly.

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