I’m annoyed by what I view as an unnecessary purchase

[2squared]

19 minutes ago, Quill said:

She owed the IRS, but everyone owes 2017 taxes in spring of 2018, unless they are not people who pay on taxes; i.e., they get a refund, have a neutral balance or are not taxpayers. 

I don't understand the point? Yes, everyone's taxes were due in April for the prior year. If they aren't paid at that time, they are debt and the last debtor I want to have is the IRS. Financial prudence is to save for taxes throughout the year so the money is available for payment when due. If she isn't doing that, then you have another opportunity for financial education. 

[hjffkj]

6 minutes ago, Quill said:

But, hj, being fine with hearing different perspectives does not mean I want to be called names and have assumptions made about my character or have prior things I have shared here treated as evidence, i.e., “Ah-ha! YOU have a beautiful house with a freshly-painted door! How spendthrift you must be!” I even said I didn’t “want to be called a fun-sucker.” 

I don’t think not putting JAWM means, “Oh, please come assasinate my character!” There are posters in this thread who respectfully disagreed with my handling of the matter, among them, Pen. 

That milk thread was abusive towards Scarlett. 

This place has changed irrevocably. 

 

I hope I did not come across as judging you.  Because I truly didn't mean to.  I was purely trying to point out that you two may have difference values when it comes to spending money and there is nothing wrong with that for either of you.  I was truly trying to see it from both points of view and couldn't understand where your annoyance was coming from simply because you have 2 different views of what is a valuable way to spend your fun money.

[2squared]

Since someone mentioned the milk thread....my dh pulled me aside yesterday to tell me that my 14yo had consumed a gallon of milk in less than 24 hours. Dh was delighted, as I had expected when reading through Scarlett's thread. I jjust chuckled to myself as he was telling me.

My 14yo is 5'7", 130lbs, and growing. He eats and drinks everything in sight. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, 2squared said:

I don't understand the point? Yes, everyone's taxes were due in April for the prior year. If they aren't paid at that time, they are debt and the last debtor I want or have is the IRS. Financial prudence is to save for taxes throughout the year so the money is available for payment when due. If she isn't doing that, then you have another opportunity for financial education. 

She is doing that. She puts all her earnings in her savings account (which i have linked and can access digitally) and moves some (like $100) into her spend account to pay for gas or incidental stuff. So, before France, she had money saved up; I don’t recall how much exactly, but somewhere around $3k, some of which would be for paying taxes, the rest to pay for France. So, she would say this: “I have $2800 now, but remember around $600 of that is for paying taxes...” And then you know the rest...it wasn’t enough for France and taxes and she had no income during that time. 

ETA: I didn’t mean to sound like I was explaining it to a baby; I thought you were possibly not from the US and didn’t know how we do it. 

Edited July 22, 2018 by Quill

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

 

I hope I did not come across as judging you.  Because I truly didn't mean to.  I was purely trying to point out that you two may have difference values when it comes to spending money and there is nothing wrong with that for either of you.  I was truly trying to see it from both points of view and couldn't understand where your annoyance was coming from simply because you have 2 different views of what is a valuable way to spend your fun money.

I did interpret it that way. It made me regret posting any pictures of my house. 

My view is that she doesn’t really have fun money. 

[wintermom]

35 minutes ago, Quill said:

She owed the IRS, but everyone owes 2017 taxes in spring of 2018, unless they are not people who pay on taxes; i.e., they get a refund, have a neutral balance or are not taxpayers. 

She could not work in France; she was in school. She is a language major and this was a highly recommended option for her major. American students cannot earn while studying abroad in France. It is prohibitted. We agreed upon things she would need to pay to participate in this trip; i.e., plane fare, pleasure experiences beyond necessary for schoolwork, premium food. Those simply turned out to be more than expected. Mainly, I did not understand how crucial trams and trains are and that this would be a couple thousand dollars even without taking excessive trips. She also was required to be out of her host home for spring break, which I did not know ahead of time was a stipulation. 

If we had been living very close to the bone, obviously she would not have been able to do study abroad. But we weren’t. I didn’t anticipate the expenses exceeding my estimates so much, but fortunately we are not people who would be financially ruined by that surprise. Nevertheless, we are not at a place of, “oh, la-dee-dah, thousands of dollars more than expected. Tsk. Tsk.” 

Studying abroad truly is an investment. Given financial ability, I will assit my other kids in doing so if they want/it makes sense for their majors. But I also now know they should have around $5000 immediately available and no less than that. 

I completely agree with you about the study abroad trip as a wonderful investment for your dd's education and life learning. And it is expensive to travel and be a student. It's a testimony to your dd's hard work that she could afford the trip, apart from the unexpected additional expenses.  That's a great learning lesson as well. There are often these unexpected expenses in life, and learning how to navigate through them is part of life.

[hjffkj]

11 minutes ago, Quill said:

I did interpret it that way. It made me regret posting any pictures of my house. 

My view is that she doesn’t really have fun money. 

I’m sorry you felt judged and regret posting it. I personally enjoyed the pictures, and while I wouldn’t spend the money to paint a door could find joy in the joy it brought you. 

Why doesn’t she have fun money? Are you saying she shouldn’t have money because she owes people money or are you saying in her eyes it is all just money and she doesn’t differentiate between it.

[Guest]

@Arctic Mama that is why I said I did not want or intend to immediately remove all the money in her account. And I granted that small pleasures were fine; they are a part of my life and hers, too. I do not view $60 for a purse as a small pleasure, though. A coffee drink out once a month, yeah. 

[Guest]

See above. She has fun money for some little pleasure. I don’t view the purse in that category. 

[hippiemamato3]

3 minutes ago, Quill said:

@Arctic Mama that is why I said I did not want or intend to immediately remove all the money in her account. And I granted that small pleasures were fine; they are a part of my life and hers, too. I do not view $60 for a purse as a small pleasure, though. A coffee drink out once a month, yeah. 

 

I honestly feel that your views on finances are extreme. A coffee drink out once a month is hardly a luxury. Truly. I think you should have your DD pay you back now so that you don't have to think about her finances anymore. I don't think it's at all realistic, or even kind, to be judging her for not having your same views. I don't know a single young adult who would think a coffee out *once a month* would be a splurge. 

[Guest]

The one bright spot is that, I guess because I was so stressed out last night and only slept for three hours, I am finally beneath a certain weight loss barrier that it seemed I could never dip below. But I was below it this morning, despite eating three slices of lemon zucchini bread yesterday and not walking three miles because it was pouring rain all day. 

 So anxiety is always good for promoting weight loss with me. In another week I might disappear altogether. 

[Jaybee]

There are a few things that have gone through my mind as I've read this. One is that even though I try to be fairly frugal, and often agonize over small financial decisions, I still, even now at my advancing age (!), occasionally buy something that was a waste of money. I didn't mean for it to be, I tried to be wise, but it was. So it is not inconceivable that a usually financially responsible very young adult would make a few questionable financial decisions along the way, as well. So that next thought has to do with the question--overall, is she financially responsible? It sounds like she is. She may have slip-ups, or areas that she may later decide she should be more frugal in (make-up, lattes, perhaps), but overall, she makes responsible decisions. She is already being responsible to pay down her travel debts. She studies hard. She works. She was mostly responsible when she was traveling by eating from the store, and buying economy train tickets. Then I'd want to focus on that, giving her some leeway to make a few mistakes. (Though I do hope she will still be able to get some joy out of her new purse--I, personally, am not a person for whom purses matter very much.) Quill, I understand your frustration. But I don't think you really have to worry about your daughter rising to the occasion and being financially responsible as she heads into full responsibility. She will make some mistakes. She will make some decisions differently than you do. But I believe you have done a good job of teaching her, and the wrinkles will shake out as she takes over more of her own expenses. That may not eliminate your own worries right now, but it seems to me those worries are skewing things for you. I hope you can separate out those things, so that it doesn't drive a wedge between you. I spend differently than my depression-era parents did. My kids spend differently than we do. In some ways, more frugally, in other ways, more freely. But we place value on things/experiences a little differently, and our cultural times have an influence as well. I think my mom probably thinks we are (still) irresponsible in some ways. But she also chooses things I wouldn't. I try to remember that with my kids as well; granted, the ones I am referring to are not under our roof any longer. Anyway, sending hugs to you as you sort this out.

[Liz CA]

10 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

 

I honestly feel that your views on finances are extreme. A coffee drink out once a month is hardly a luxury. Truly. I think you should have your DD pay you back now so that you don't have to think about her finances anymore. I don't think it's at all realistic, or even kind, to be judging her for not having your same views. I don't know a single young adult who would think a coffee out *once a month* would be a splurge. 

 

This is why finances are such a hot button topic in marriages as well. What one considers frivolous, the other considers a necessity or hardly a luxury.

I suppose Quill and her daughter could sit down together, review her budget and see what she can reasonably pay back on the loan and contribute toward a car / repairs. I did see some posts dealing with France trip, etc. but I don't want to get into all this. To me, it seems moving forward is important now. France and the purse are in the rear view mirror -albeit the purse more recently and thus causing Quill the frustration if I understand this correctly.

Nixpix said it better than I could. Whenever we have not made our stance clear, we may feel grumpy or frustrated. Now is a good time to sit down together and find a solution - incrementally perhaps - to the impending expenses. Quill's dd can make a budget (maybe with Quill's help if it's needed) to ascertain how much fun money is in the pot or if there is little to none right now while the loans are paid but there will be later again. I think even if it's tight, there needs to be a little fun money, otherwise the whole thing is nothing but drudgery and the budget is likely to be abandoned because it seems too punishing. 

Instead of this being a punitive exercise, I would frame it as being concerned and not wanting dd deep in debt and offering assistance to finding a solution or at least making sure that there is a spending plan.

Realistic budgeting is a great skill to learn and even if Quill's dd may not appreciate it now, she will likely be grateful later to have acquired this skill.

[Bootsie]

14 minutes ago, Quill said:

I did interpret it that way. It made me regret posting any pictures of my house. 

My view is that she doesn’t really have fun money. 

Perhaps it would help if you made this view clear to her, if you haven't already.  If your view is that every penny of what she earns is to go to pay back the loan you made and to save for a car, and none of that money is for her to make decisions about or use as she wishes, it would help if that were explicit.  It might encourage her to pay things back more quickly so that she can begin making decisions on her own about how she will spend the money that she does earn rather than feeling like she has to answer for every purchase.  

Is it possible that she would prefer a new handbag, a latte everyday, and some other little indulgences rather than having a car at campus this next year?  I have had one who is in college who would much prefer a trip to Europe, a latte, a leather journal, a day at the spa... to a car.  I have another child who would subsist on bread and water before giving up a car at college (and would find a trip to Europe more painful than pleasurable).  DH and I finally realized that the way we spend money supporting the two during the college years is very different.

[hjffkj]

9 minutes ago, Quill said:

See above. She has fun money for some little pleasure. I don’t view the purse in that category. 

 

So you two have different financial values, which is fine. But if you are finding yourself annoyed and judging her spending you should probably step away from being part of her finances passed what you think a parent should still provide.

This is the last I’ll post in here since you were obviously hurt by something I thought would be a helpful insight you hadn’t considered. It is instances like this that have turned me into more of a lurker these days

[Pen]

46 minutes ago, Quill said:

But, hj, being fine with hearing different perspectives does not mean I want to be called names and have assumptions made about my character or have prior things I have shared here treated as evidence, i.e., “Ah-ha! YOU have a beautiful house with a freshly-painted door! How spendthrift you must be!” I even said I didn’t “want to be called a fun-sucker.” 

 

 

I n case this feeling came from my post about your thread, I want to clarify something. I did not at all mean that I think that you are spendthrift or anything like that. I don’t. 

What was in my mind is that your dd lives in a beautiful expensive looking house, and that not only may outsiders have the sense from that that you can easily afford more than you can, but your dd herself could think so. Especially if you are not sharing your struggles and worries with her, she may not realize that there is a real current financial issue and stress. 

There are parents of my generation who grew up in Great Depression and still live like they are in it because it was character shaping even if they are very well to do now. Others had that experience and are affected by it emotionally for always, but are also having actual financial problems in current circumstances. These are different and even a child in the family may not be able to tell unless the fact of current problems are disclosed. 

A young adult child could easily dismiss statements related to financial stress as just part of parental worry-wart personality and behavior, sort of a ptsd thing from the parent’s past, and not understand that there are current circumstances that call for tightening of belts and all family members chipping in as much as possible to make the family financial situation work for all involved. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, hjffkj said:

 

So you two have different financial values, which is fine. But if you are finding yourself annoyed and judging her spending you should probably step away from being part of her finances passed what you think a parent should still provide.

This is the last I’ll post in here since you were obviously hurt by something I thought would be a helpful insight you hadn’t considered. It is instances like this that have turned me into more of a lurker these days

Me too. I feel a sense of responsibility to this thread as long as it continues, but afterwards? I think Creekland is smarter than I. It is only because my DH is flying a homebuilt airplane this weekend (or rather, not flying due to weather, but stuck in Ohio) that I wanted to distract myself by being on here. But now I have wasted like 20 hours or something here and legit have done nothing useful since yesterday morning when I finished The Hunchback of Notre Dame on audiobook while walking three miles. 

(So now someone can wonder how my DH has an airplane while I go ape-shit about a purse...) 

[Liz CA]

37 minutes ago, Quill said:

I did interpret it that way. It made me regret posting any pictures of my house. 

My view is that she doesn’t really have fun money. 

 

Don't worry about your front door! I am willing to venture a guess that your financial situation and your daughter's are slightly different.

Paint is a great inexpensive way to spruce things up and moreover it's not the issue here.

In regards to fun money: I agree with Arctic's post that a budget without any fun money is doomed to fail because we all want something to look forward to be it ever so small - like you mentioned the occasional cup of coffee. The purse may have exceeded fun money amount and this is why a good budget will help your dd to reconsider.

[Lady Florida.]

33 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

You know, though, even as adults who was waaay cash strapped at the moment, we do make room in our budget for small pleasure spends that keep us from feeling too utterly deprived and hopeless.

This. It's like the people who say those on food stamps should never have a candy bar or a coffee they didn't make at home. Or they should cancel Netflix. Even Dave Ramsey says you have to budget some fun money. There has to be a limit of course, but to never allow yourself anything you want is thoroughly depressing. Some people simply can't because their financial situation truly won't allow it but if there's any wiggle room at all, one should allow for a little pleasure (and no, not all pleasurable activities/items are free). 

[Lady Florida.]

30 minutes ago, Quill said:

See above. She has fun money for some little pleasure. I don’t view the purse in that category. 

Because you don't view the purse in that category doesn't mean it's not in that category. I personally don't view it as a fun item for me, but I recognize for others such an item is a fun splurge. 

[katilac]

51 minutes ago, Quill said:

 My view is that she doesn’t really have fun money. 

 

 

36 minutes ago, Quill said:

 And I granted that small pleasures were fine; they are a part of my life and hers, too. I do not view $60 for a purse as a small pleasure, though. A coffee drink out once a month, yeah. 

 

 

So $5 per month? That isn't impossible, but, if that's where your head is, you need to make that very clear to her. I don't think most people, even frugal people, equate small pleasures being fine to being restricted to $5/month. 

I mostly think you just need to have dd pay you back, right now. I honestly don't see why you don't want to do this if you also don't want her to spend any money. Send her with tampons and deodorant and leave the rest up to her. If something comes up, she can ask you about it, and you can either provide the money or not, and make it explicit whether it is a gift or a loan and what the repayment terms are. It would be a fresh start. 

[ktgrok]

5 hours ago, Quill said:

No, no, no. It’s not, “I am upset that I can’t buy a $60 (whatever thing).”  I have $60. It is not about recouping the money she owes me. Though that will be handy. Because - teeth. 

It is because she does not “have” the money. She *technically* has it because -look! Here it is! So, for that @Pen is correct. Perhaps I should just comfiscate 100% of the money she owes me, nag my accountant and confiscate that money, and then let her figure out what to do about the car with only pocket change left until she earns more. 

FTR, I would be equally irritated if she spent $60 on, say, concert tickets. 

Also, @Tibbie Dunbar is right; I’m sure you have heard of a straw that broke the camel’s back. She has floated the idea of getting such a purse before, but I have said I think it is unnecessary and not worthwhile. She bought a new leather wristlet last month. I agreed with this purchase and I am sure in a part of my head, I thought this was satisfying the wish for such a purse - that she had decided on a cheaper but nice-looking wristlet instead. But now she got the purse too. So the camel came crashing down. 

Yeah, I think we misunderstood, and maybe your daughter did too? That if some purchases that are frivolous are okay with what is, rightfully, your money, why was the purse the issue? But it honestly sounds like she's taking advantage of you a bit, and you are trying to be nice, but then being resentful because your niceness is being taken advantage of. I hope I'm clear that I TOTALLY get being upset that she's making frivolous purchases when she should be paying you back. I think the problem is that either 1. she doesn't understand that she should pay you back ASAP, or 2. She doesn't have a good sense for money/budgeting yet despite your example, 3. she just is being selfish. 

Probably a bit of all three, given her age? I mean, not selfish in a bad way, but in a typical adolescent way? Does she show poor money management normally? If so, maybe this isn't something she can learn by example and needs more explicit teaching about? Like me and fashion, lol. My mother is a great example of fashion - tasteful clothing that is timeless. But despite that example, I suck at it, lol. Maybe your daughter needs an actual class or to spend time watching some youtube videos or even you insist she spend part of that money she has in her account on budget software like YNAB? ( I like the way YNAB only budgets money ou have, rather than relying on a steady income, which she doesn't have, and it has LOTS of videos, podcasts, articles, etc to help her really GET it. And it's fairly fun and upbeat, not shaming and "beans and rice forever" like some of the ones that might turn off a young lady of her age. It's even colorful, lol.)

so yeah, the money issue needs to be addressed, and the communication issue needs to be worked out. It is HARD as they go from "child" to "adult but still dependent"! Our communication has to change, to more how we deal with other adults, but if we can, I think it's a gift to teach them how to communicate about hard subjects (and money is the hardest). It will help her when she marries one day, to have your example of sitting down calmly and expressing your frustration and concerns without attacking her, and then asking what solutions she has, listening to her opinion, etc. Rather than not wanting to cause hard feelings by confronting her or issuing boundaries, but then being resentful, etc. 

But beyond that, I'd be annoyed too. I do think working out some kind of payment plan, even if rather than a set amount per month it is a set percentage of her income, to allow for her variation in working hours, would do you relationship a lot of good. Because when I owe my bank money for my car loan, as long as I keep making my payments they won't get mad at me if I also buy new shoes, you know? So if she's paying you, (and putting other money into a car fund if you guys work that out..I missed those details) then she gets to by whatever, and no one has to be upset by it or feel controlled or whatever. But again, getting her signed up with YNAB and creating a budget might do that AND give her the tools to continue to budget. 

Ideally, I'd say you guys take a laptop and head to Starbucks or wherever and make it a mother daughter bonding time, but I'm almost hesitant to suggest buying expensive coffee now, LOL! Maybe instead you two sit down with some homemade goodies or a bowl of popcorn and do it? Maybe deduct the cost of the software from what she owes you, to sweeten the deal a bit? 

I really really don't mean to attack you, or say you don't ahve a right to be upset. You do. I just think at this point you are facing an opportunity to create more communication between you AND teach her better money management in a different way, since teaching by example hasn't been picked up. (and for a funny, my purses come from my parents, who insist on buying me expensive designer purses I never end up using because I am not into that, lol. I actually traded one of them for a used baby crib when I was pregnant with one of the kids - DH had a coworker with an upcoming wedding anniversary and his wife loved Coach purses. We had no money, but had that darned purse still in the gift bag and they had a used baby crib they were going to sell. So we traded. So I get where you are coming from, lol.)

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I n case this feeling came from my post about your thread, I want to clarify something. I did not at all mean that I think that you are spendthrift or anything like that. I don’t. 

What was in my mind is that your dd lives in a beautiful expensive looking house, and that not only may outsiders have the sense from that that you can easily afford more than you can, but your dd herself could think so. Especially if you are not sharing your struggles and worries with her, she may not realize that there is a real current financial issue and stress. 

There are parents of my generation who grew up in Great Depression and still live like they are in it because it was character shaping even if they are very well to do now. Others had that experience and are affected by it emotionally for always, but are also having actual financial problems in current circumstances. These are different and even a child in the family may not be able to tell unless the fact of current problems are disclosed. 

A young adult child could easily dismiss statements related to financial stress as just part of parental worry-wart personality and behavior, sort of a ptsd thing from the parent’s past, and not understand that there are current circumstances that call for tightening of belts and all family members chipping in as much as possible to make the family financial situation work for all involved. 

Yeah, but I seriously cannot see how any child living here would think this. We had to evict a tenant this past spring; I talked about it on here as I do everything. Well, while that was going down, my kids absolutely heard and saw all aspects of this, in both the sense of warning as how it is bad to be as a tenant and also how much loss this cost us. So several thousand dollars in income, lost. And then a couple more thousand cleaning it out. And no new renter there now. 

And then, on Memorial weekend, the six properties we manage suffered a devastating flood, two years, not even, since the last devastating flood. So -no income from those properties until everyone can move back and we get new tenants for the vacancies. 

Anyway - didn’t mean to go on that tangent necessarily, but the point was meant that our kids SEE that these things are lost income. Money not made. Good money after bad. They couldn’t miss it. I am sure an individual kid does not necessarily internalize it as well as another might like, “wow...that’s probably going to make them reluctant to spend money for a while...” But presumably, they would still recognize that none of these events are good. 

[LucyStoner]

You place a positive value on having a car (something that many students do actually live without) and on studying abroad.  You place a positive or neutral value on a small pleasure like a coffee.  You clearly place a negative value on a designer bag. What a lot of people are saying is that none of these things are intrinsically good or bad.  

A new, non-designer handbag is what, $30ish?  I don’t know because I literally don’t carry any handbag because I’m a tomboy but I think I saw some at Target for $30 at some point when I was looking for some sort of beach tote (a search which I gave up in favor of my much beloved IKEA shopping bags).  Say she decided to get one black and one brown non-designer handbag (bags are kinda supposed to match your shoes, that’s a thing, right?) and had spent the same $60.  Would the purchase bother you to the degree that it does?  

I think you need to make explicit things you have been assuming she should have gleaned implicitly. 

If she needs to pay you back, make that schedule explicit.  If she needs a new to her car, consider if it is realistically in your means to play even Steven and make sure both kids have cars.  

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, nixpix5 said:

Granted, I have not read many replies but I did read about the dental work text and it made me think this is less about your DD and more about you (said with heaping mounds of friendly affection). I find I get irritated when my boundaries are wishy washy. We are happier when we let our yes mean yes and no mean no so to speak. It may mean you need to set a new boundary. I might say " I find myself being a bit annoyed lately and this isn't your fault, it's mine. I have paid for some things that I now feel a bit bitter hearted about. I don't like that feeling. I am going to be more clear about what I am OK helping you with while letting you take more financial responsibility in your life" 

There is nothing wrong saying " I will pay 200 of the bill and you pay 100" and do it because you want to, not because you feel obligated. This transition is so hard for young people. They have blind spots to parent spending on them because it is all they have ever known ?

YES!  Boundaries are part of what I was trying to get at but failing. That and communication. Whenever I start feeling taken advantage of it means I need to re-examine my boundaries and if I am communicating them clearly. That doesn't excuse other people being selfish but it does help solve the problem. I can't control other people's attitudes, but I can control my boundaries. 

[LucyStoner]

There’s a great book about Boundaries with Teens.  It’s an easy read or audiobook listen.  

[Caroline]

It’s been a tough year for you all. And you are adding in a second college student. I’m sorry this has all come down at once. Hugs to you, Quill. 

[ktgrok]

Also, in this very thread you have said both that she doesn't have any fun money, and that she of course should have some fun money. So yeah, that sounds a bit like mixed messages, hence her and you not being on the same page. 

[katilac]

14 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I n case this feeling came from my post about your thread, I want to clarify something. I did not at all mean that I think that you are spendthrift or anything like that. I don’t. 

What was in my mind is that your dd lives in a beautiful expensive looking house, and that not only may outsiders have the sense from that that you can easily afford more than you can, but your dd herself could think so. Especially if you are not sharing your struggles and worries with her, she may not realize that there is a real current financial issue and stress. 

There are parents of my generation who grew up in Great Depression and still live like they are in it because it was character shaping even if they are very well to do now. Others had that experience and are affected by it emotionally for always, but are also having actual financial problems in current circumstances. These are different and even a child in the family may not be able to tell unless the fact of current problems are disclosed. 

A young adult child could easily dismiss statements related to financial stress as just part of parental worry-wart personality and behavior, sort of a ptsd thing from the parent’s past, and not understand that there are current circumstances that call for tightening of belts and all family members chipping in as much as possible to make the family financial situation work for all involved. 

 

Yes. You have raised your dd in a certain way, but living in an affluent neighborhood is going to have influence as well, it is going to affect her view of what is typical. Combine that with different personalities, and it's not surprising the two of you have different views. 

And, however much it hurts our parental feelings, half the time all they hear when we are talking is wah wah wah wah wah, Charlie Brown style. I saw your next post that says they have seen and heard things about evictions, floods, and so on, but it is not atypical for a young adult to shove that in a box marked "things old people worry about" and ignore it. It's just immaturity.  I have kids who would be sent into severe anxiety attacks over that kind of stuff, and I promise you that's no picnic either. 

Don't lament her lack of overall financial judgment for now. Simply address the issue at hand, which is that she owes you money, and you are each interpreting the loose agreement to pay it back very differently. Spell it out. Have her pay back a substantial amount from her savings, if not the whole amount.  Put this behind you and get a fresh start. 

 

11 minutes ago, Quill said:

Me too. I feel a sense of responsibility to this thread as long as it continues 

 

 

There is no need for that. Threads can be released into the wild with no harm, lol. If it's not benefitting you, bow out. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

You place a positive value on having a car (something that many students do actually live without) and on studying abroad.  Yiu place a positive or neutral value in a coffee.  You clearly place a negative value on a designer bag. What a lot of people are saying is that none of these things are intrinsically good or bad.  

A new, non-designer handbag is what, $30ish?  I don’t know because I literally don’t carry any handbag because I’m a tomboy but I think I saw some at Target for $30 at some point when I was looking for some sort of beach tote.  Say she decided to get one black and one brown non-designer handbag (bags are kinda supposed to match your shoes, that’s a thing, right?) and had spent the same $60.  Would the purchase bother you to the degree that it does?  

I think you need to make explicit things you have been assuming she should have gleaned implicitly. 

If she needs to pay you back, make that schedule explicit.  If she needs a new to her car, consider if it is realistically in your means to play even Steven and make sure both kids have cars.  

I would probably think it was stupid to buy two $30 Target purses just so she could have two colors. I imagine it would irritate me a bit less because the fact of a designer purse is much less necessary than simply *A* purse, any purse, to be one’s daily purse. But in reality, I would still think buying two purses at once was foolish, except perhaps if they were literally yardsale or thrift store buys for a few dollars each. But I don’t carry purses and, back when I did, I had one at a time (though I had something like a silver clutch for a wedding too). But only ONE purse to be my main purse for a few years until I was tired of it and/or it was worn out. After my car window was smashed in and my purse was stolen at a soccer game in broad daylight, I ceased ever carrying a purse of the usual type. (Except at a wedding or event.) So yeah - purses are meaningless to me. 

Also, I forget who asked but she definitely does value having a car to drive. She would NOT be one of those people who would say she would rather drink lattes and ride a bike or bum a ride. She would have no way of seeing her bf, not least of all, except for him to come to campus, which is not a great regularly-occurring option.She was super inconvenienced just by having a dead car for a few days. 

[itsheresomewhere]

I don’t spend a lot on myself but 60 for a purse of good quality that could last for years is not bad to me.  DH has a backpack that at the time was a 100 and a waste purchase to his parents.  That bag has gone on trips galore and is used daily for work.  Now many years later, he is looking to replace it with the same one.  And how funny how his parents say that now they see it not like what they thought at the time of was a waste of money.  They see why he bought it what he did.  I would like to hope that in a few years when that purse is still in great condition and she takes it places, you laugh and think why was it such a big deal at the time. Just don’t make this what changes your relationship for the worse. 

[Liz CA]

18 minutes ago, Quill said:

Yeah, but I seriously cannot see how any child living here would think this. We had to evict a tenant this past spring; I talked about it on here as I do everything. Well, while that was going down, my kids absolutely heard and saw all aspects of this, in both the sense of warning as how it is bad to be as a tenant and also how much loss this cost us. So several thousand dollars in income, lost. And then a couple more thousand cleaning it out. And no new renter there now. 

And then, on Memorial weekend, the six properties we manage suffered a devastating flood, two years, not even, since the last devastating flood. So -no income from those properties until everyone can move back and we get new tenants for the vacancies. 

Anyway - didn’t mean to go on that tangent necessarily, but the point was meant that our kids SEE that these things are lost income. Money not made. Good money after bad. They couldn’t miss it. I am sure an individual kid does not necessarily internalize it as well as another might like, “wow...that’s probably going to make them reluctant to spend money for a while...” But presumably, they would still recognize that none of these events are good. 

 

Yes, I remember those threads and can well understand that you feel a bit tight right now and this is why your dd's purchase frustrated you. I do think kids (even at 21) still think parents have a magic way of resolving all difficulties and money will appear. Even while your kids witnessed all those incidents, they probably think of you and your dh as being resourceful enough to get over it (resourceful in some "magical" indefinable way :) ) 

I hope you will sleep better tonight, I hope your dh gets back from Ohio and you and your dd can work on a budget without there being ill feelings. 

AND please don't spend another thought on what people think about your front door!!!

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Also, in this very thread you have said both that she doesn't have any fun money, and that she of course should have some fun money. So yeah, that sounds a bit like mixed messages, hence her and you not being on the same page. 

I said she doesn’t really have fun money. Fun money yes = have a cup of coffee out. Pick up a Krispy Kreme fresh with bf. Fun money no = go to mall. Buy a purse. Stop in Sephora and see what new lipsticks are coming out. Have dinner at Chipotle. 

I agree I could spell this out to her better. I don’t want to, though. Not least of which I will legit cry. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

4 minutes ago, katilac said:

 

 

 

 

There is no need for that. Threads can be released into the wild with no harm, lol. If it's not benefitting you, bow out. 

 

That is fabulous. Add it to the Hive lexicon. Going forward, let's all help each other release our threads into the wild when it's time (or four pages past time).

So much less violent than the ol' "Die, Thread, Die!"

[hippiemamato3]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

I said she doesn’t really have fun money. Fun money yes = have a cup of coffee out. Pick up a Krispy Kreme fresh with bf. Fun money no = go to mall. Buy a purse. Stop in Sephora and see what new lipsticks are coming out. Have dinner at Chipotle. 

I agree I could spell this out to her better. I don’t want to, though. Not least of which I will legit cry. 

 

Have her pay you back. Get the money out of her savings. She can rebuild it because she won't owe you anymore and you can offer her help to learn how to budget, and she can accept or not. 

Please, please don't let this cause further damage to your relationship. Have her pay you back today, or this week, and leave it behind you. If you don't - you will continue to feel resentful and judgmental and it will ruin your relationship. Getting the money from her now ends all of that. You can move forward. Do that.

[Scarlett]

31 minutes ago, Quill said:

Me too. I feel a sense of responsibility to this thread as long as it continues, but afterwards? I think Creekland is smarter than I. It is only because my DH is flying a homebuilt airplane this weekend (or rather, not flying due to weather, but stuck in Ohio) that I wanted to distract myself by being on here. But now I have wasted like 20 hours or something here and legit have done nothing useful since yesterday morning when I finished The Hunchback of Notre Dame on audiobook while walking three miles. 

(So now someone can wonder how my DH has an airplane while I go ape-shit about a purse...) 

Quill I was thinking about this board in general as I was cleaning toilets for pay this afternoon. I am cracking up thinking about your dd splurging on purses and trips to France and Mr. Quill splurging on an airplane while you splurge on paint for your family’s front door and a coffee once a month with a friend.  I thought yep sounds about right. 

 Seriously though, put your daughter on a payment plan and let that be that . I think someone Up threadwas correct and positive and saying that your daughter is going to be just fine and the lessons you’ve taught her will put her on a path to being a responsible adult-it just may not be a straight path. 

[Murphy101]

I haven’t read too many replies. Cause holy moly is like milk in crock pots and shoes in houses.

I think if you are going to give money to someone, even close family living under your roof, you need to presume at least privately, and preferably openly, that it’s been given and let go of any worry of pay back. If you can’t, then it is really best to not give it at all. Either give and never mention it again or don’t give it  

I’d start nipping financial strings if she isn’t managing money well. I wouldn’t make it about character or punishment. It’s just about growing up and learning about making tough financial choices.  Such as, I’d have made her pay the taxes and  accrue the debt for her dental care even if I was willing to help make the payments. She’d have to discuss payment arrangements and set it up herself and I’d explain, if she doesn’t pay them, when she needs dental work later they won’t take her. Or that the irs is going to come and take it with lots of additional expensive fees added on.

I don’t really monitor my adult kids spending other than to sit them down and discuss budgeting if they seem to need advice on it. But we also aren’t paying for much for them either. We help where we can but there isn’t much cash to spread around these days. And frankly, it’s a luxury to be able to afford to argue over France, designer purses, painting doors, and dental work. There’s a huge number of people who can’t afford any of that no matter how well they budget.  So I have difficulty feeling any genuine angst for this situation.  Basicly you regret giving her money for things she either didn’t need and or could have paid for herself - so don’t do that again.  Lesson learned.  Boundary found.  Moving on.

I don’t care what kind of purse it is.

As for cars and fairness/equality to kids. Life isn’t fair. And equal doesn’t always mean same. I do what I can for all my kids, but they are individuals and have to be treated as such. It’d be flat out bad parenting on my part to ignore that.  And parental circumstances change too.

[Soror]

@Quill I just want to give you more hugs. I don't get why everyone is up and arms, we all get aggravated sometimes and not everyone will understand where we are coming from, that's life. We all have those moments, NBD. Your daughter is well cared for by any reasonable standard. She is blessed. I'm certain you will get it sorted and be on your way, you're a smart woman who obviously cares for your kids, so what if your money values don't line up with everyone here, pfft, they aren't living in your house, paying your bills, and raising your kids.

[Chris in VA]

I didn't read all the middle pages, just the first two and page 5, so forgive me if I've missed something. 

Quill, maybe you can think of that purse as 10 trips to Starbucks. I mean, as an indulgence equal to yours, just not as spread out. 

And maybe your daughter will see the true markup on that purse--if it's sold that low, and they are still making a profit, then what is it really worth? If she sees that, maybe she will see she was manipulated by the marketing into thinking it was a bargain when it was really just...a purse that cost $60. 

But honestly, I don't have a problem with her getting a purse. I do see them as something you want to last, and I guess I'm a victim of the same marketing, as I don't find it that unreasonable.

Maybe (and maybe someone mentioned this), she doesn't seem grateful for all she already has, and that grates on you. I had that discussion with my daughter. She is, but I told her I wanted to give her things but I didn't want her to act entitled, and I very honestly and somewhat humorously said, "I don't think you are fawning enough." We did laugh, and I said that I just was afraid a little that she was developing an entitled attitude. 

Because really, when we have these feelings that our kids aren't doing what they should, it's often our fears that are coming into play. Dealing with our own fears we hold for our children is the first step in letting them go, and letting them grow, experiencing all the consequences of their actions. It's hard to do that. 

I hear you saying, between the lines, the gratefulness thing, and the fear for her thing. 

I don't know if that's accurate. 

[ktgrok]

15 minutes ago, Quill said:

I said she doesn’t really have fun money. Fun money yes = have a cup of coffee out. Pick up a Krispy Kreme fresh with bf. Fun money no = go to mall. Buy a purse. Stop in Sephora and see what new lipsticks are coming out. Have dinner at Chipotle. 

I agree I could spell this out to her better. I don’t want to, though. Not least of which I will legit cry. 

And that right there is a communication problem. You don't want a confrontation. You don't want to be the bad guy. You don't want to overshare your own persona finance issues. So you don't say anything, and then resent it when she doesn't figure out what you are not saying. That is pretty much HOW to ruin a relationships with someone, be it a spouse, sibling, or adult child. I know it's hard, but good communication IS hard. (which is why we all try to avoid it, lol). But it's SO important. Give her that gift, of learning how to have hard conversations. Her future spouse will thank you. How many marriages hit the rocks over financial issues and not being able to discuss them? A LOT. So do this now. 

And besides, this time the hard conversation is finances. Next time it may be something else - how to spend the holidays, or issues with grandchildren, or whatever. You need to work out how to have hard conversations with each other in a respectful way, adult to adult. Otherwise you are going to have a lifetime of having things you don't want to talk about cause resentment between you. No one wants that. 

As an example, when I got divorced I moved in with my parents. At first, it was free. But then at some point, I think after the first year, they sat me down and said that although they loved having me, they did think it would be best and most fair if I kicked in some money towards living expenses, rather than them continue to pay my room and board as an adult. So we decided together I'd start paying the electric bill (which at the time was sometimes as high as 400 dollars a month) and start doing some specific chores beyond just normal cleaning up. IT was a respectful conversation, and I had no problem doing what they asked, and our relationship was the better for it. I hate to think what would have happened if they just kept silently wishing I'd chip in, and resenting when I didn't, etc. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Chris in VA said:

I didn't read all the middle pages, just the first two and page 5, so forgive me if I've missed something. 

Quill, maybe you can think of that purse as 10 trips to Starbucks. I mean, as an indulgence equal to yours, just not as spread out. 

And maybe your daughter will see the true markup on that purse--if it's sold that low, and they are still making a profit, then what is it really worth? If she sees that, maybe she will see she was manipulated by the marketing into thinking it was a bargain when it was really just...a purse that cost $60. 

But honestly, I don't have a problem with her getting a purse. I do see them as something you want to last, and I guess I'm a victim of the same marketing, as I don't find it that unreasonable.

Maybe (and maybe someone mentioned this), she doesn't seem grateful for all she already has, and that grates on you. I had that discussion with my daughter. She is, but I told her I wanted to give her things but I didn't want her to act entitled, and I very honestly and somewhat humorously said, "I don't think you are fawning enough." We did laugh, and I said that I just was afraid a little that she was developing an entitled attitude. 

Because really, when we have these feelings that our kids aren't doing what they should, it's often our fears that are coming into play. Dealing with our own fears we hold for our children is the first step in letting them go, and letting them grow, experiencing all the consequences of their actions. It's hard to do that. 

I hear you saying, between the lines, the gratefulness thing, and the fear for her thing. 

I don't know if that's accurate. 

It could not be more accurate. 

There is a gratefulness thing, no question. I want some fawning, too. 

There is a fear thing. When I was growing up, I saw my parents make a lot of puzzling choices. I did not have the feeling of safety that kids need to not grow up to be neurotic about purses. They still do things that don’t make sense. My sister, too, when she was alive, made horrible financial decisions. She constantly bought frivolous doo-dads. She wasted tens of thousands of dollars. It ruined her marriage. So yes, I am hyper-vigillant about the slightest whiff of money mismanagement. Because we just cannot be like this, you know? Seven P’s and all that. 

DS18 is a total squirrel. It’s mind-boggling how logical he is about expenses. He works his butt off. And then he saves fanatically. And with him, I have to convince him I don’t mind buying him some protein bars to keep at college in his room. 

[Bootsie]

55 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

 

This is why finances are such a hot button topic in marriages as well. What one considers frivolous, the other considers a necessity or hardly a luxury.

This shows up in a number of ways.  In the past few years, I have had to take over more and more responsibility in helping my mother handle her finances (not paying for things for her, but handling investments, taxes, etc.).  I look at things and want to say, "Mom, do you really think you have enough money to get your nails done?"  I know she wonders how I have money to take a vacation (which costs less than what she spends in a year on manicures).  She just bought a new car and a new chair, both of which seemed like luxuries to me.  She would probably not buy these things if I simply said she could not afford them.  The fact is she does have the money, but my preference would be to have it in savings or spent on other things.

[Katy]

46 minutes ago, Quill said:

Yeah, but I seriously cannot see how any child living here would think this. We had to evict a tenant this past spring; I talked about it on here as I do everything. Well, while that was going down, my kids absolutely heard and saw all aspects of this, in both the sense of warning as how it is bad to be as a tenant and also how much loss this cost us. So several thousand dollars in income, lost. And then a couple more thousand cleaning it out. And no new renter there now. 

And then, on Memorial weekend, the six properties we manage suffered a devastating flood, two years, not even, since the last devastating flood. So -no income from those properties until everyone can move back and we get new tenants for the vacancies. 

Anyway - didn’t mean to go on that tangent necessarily, but the point was meant that our kids SEE that these things are lost income. Money not made. Good money after bad. They couldn’t miss it. I am sure an individual kid does not necessarily internalize it as well as another might like, “wow...that’s probably going to make them reluctant to spend money for a while...” But presumably, they would still recognize that none of these events are good. 

 

She's an adult. It's never occurred to her that she's anything but financially secure because you've always been financially secure, and even when you feared you weren't, you weren't oversharing the difficult details and ramifications.  I'm not judging your beautiful house, or front door, or DH's hobby, and frankly I think YOU could do well with a bit more splurges in your own life. But it's not as if DH was selling his plane or you discussed absolutely not being able to replace her car because of the financial setbacks you've had recently. If you want her to understand that things aren't okay, you might need to spell it out in literal detail.

21 minutes ago, Quill said:

I said she doesn’t really have fun money. Fun money yes = have a cup of coffee out. Pick up a Krispy Kreme fresh with bf. Fun money no = go to mall. Buy a purse. Stop in Sephora and see what new lipsticks are coming out. Have dinner at Chipotle. 

I agree I could spell this out to her better. I don’t want to, though. Not least of which I will legit cry. 

 

I tend to be more logical than emotional, so shove this advice in the trash if you wish, but generally, when I'm that emotional about something it has more to do with me and my boundaries and some unprocessed trauma from the past than it does whatever irritating thing my family member is doing right now. If you're positive you're going to have a breakdown about this, maybe bite your tongue for a few more days, at least until DH is safely at home and that anxiety is in the past, and give yourself more time to think about this, about what your expectations are and what you really want out of her. I think it's absolutely fine to think $10ish per month is reasonable, but it's not fine to think she should know that without you telling her.  She can't read your mind, and she's grown up with drastically different circumstances than you have, not the least of which is that you haven't expressed your financial anxiety to her in a way she couldn't dismiss as typical mother anxiety.

8 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

And that right there is a communication problem. You don't want a confrontation. You don't want to be the bad guy. You don't want to overshare your own persona finance issues. So you don't say anything, and then resent it when she doesn't figure out what you are not saying. That is pretty much HOW to ruin a relationships with someone, be it a spouse, sibling, or adult child. I know it's hard, but good communication IS hard. (which is why we all try to avoid it, lol). But it's SO important. Give her that gift, of learning how to have hard conversations. Her future spouse will thank you. 

 

This.  If you don't have that hard conversation eventually, she's going to resent you for it and distance herself. Which is not to say you should have it right now, when you're emotional and afraid. Because if you do break down and say something you'll regret later, she might pay you back in anger and start hiding all her financial decisions from you.

4 minutes ago, Quill said:

It could not be more accurate. 

There is a gratefulness thing, no question. I want some fawning, too. 

There is a fear thing. When I was growing up, I saw my parents make a lot of puzzling choices. I did not have the feeling of safety that kids need to not grow up to be neurotic about purses. They still do things that don’t make sense. My sister, too, when she was alive, made horrible financial decisions. She constantly bought frivolous doo-dads. She wasted tens of thousands of dollars. It ruined her marriage. So yes, I am hyper-vigillant about the slightest whiff of money mismanagement. Because we just cannot be like this, you know? Seven P’s and all that. 

DS18 is a total squirrel. It’s mind-boggling how logical he is about expenses. He works his butt off. And then he saves fanatically. And with him, I have to convince him I don’t mind buying him some protein bars to keep at college in his room. 

 

This is a personality difference, not a character flaw.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, soror said:

@Quill I just want to give you more hugs. I don't get why everyone is up and arms, we all get aggravated sometimes and not everyone will understand where we are coming from, that's life. We all have those moments, NBD. Your daughter is well cared for by any reasonable standard. She is blessed. I'm certain you will get it sorted and be on your way, you're a smart woman who obviously cares for your kids, so what if your money values don't line up with everyone here, pfft, they aren't living in your house, paying your bills, and raising your kids.

Yup. And you know, I don’t exist in a vaccum; my kids have all come and gone into the room I am in and I had a conversation with dd about the purse and I asked her to forgive me for being snippy and I said that I am under tremendous financial stress...and then I stopped talking so I would not legit cry. But now she is off to an illegally-taxed nanny gig for the evening, so it’s all good. Except maybe for the illegal taxing thing. Also assuming the car does not break going or coming. 

Thanks for the props. 

[LucyStoner]

22 minutes ago, Quill said:

I would probably think it was stupid to buy two $30 Target purses just so she could have two colors. I imagine it would irritate me a bit less because the fact of a designer purse is much less necessary than simply *A* purse, any purse, to be one’s daily purse. But in reality, I would still think buying two purses at once was foolish, except perhaps if they were literally yardsale or thrift store buys for a few dollars each. But I don’t carry purses and, back when I did, I had one at a time (though I had something like a silver clutch for a wedding too). But only ONE purse to be my main purse for a few years until I was tired of it and/or it was worn out. After my car window was smashed in and my purse was stolen at a soccer game in broad daylight, I ceased ever carrying a purse of the usual type. (Except at a wedding or event.) So yeah - purses are meaningless to me. 

Also, I forget who asked but she definitely does value having a car to drive. She would NOT be one of those people who would say she would rather drink lattes and ride a bike or bum a ride. She would have no way of seeing her bf, not least of all, except for him to come to campus, which is not a great regularly-occurring option.She was super inconvenienced just by having a dead car for a few days. 

 

I do not have a purse (and have only ever owned three purses, which never got used and got sold or donated).  My beach tote is an IKEA shopping bag.  I buy no makeup beyond chapstick.  Just making it very clear that we seem to have a lot in common on this front and that my comments aren't coming from a place of defensiveness.  Why is it foolish or stupid to have any particular purse or no purse at all?  

If you let go of the idea that people who do things differently are stupid or foolish, even when, or perhaps ESPECIALLY when, those people are your children, I promise you things will be a lot less stressful.  For you.  Even just a slight shift of perspective can help.   Borrowing from my cereal fueled marriage crisis example, there's a big difference between "you are an idiot for buying so much gd cereal, why are you doing this to me you stupid spoiled jerk?" and "I see that you bought a lot of cereal.  I didn't grow up eating this and I perceive it as being super expensive.  I am worried that we may be spending too much on groceries.  Can we look at the budget together and make a plan for breakfasts and snacks?"  Similarly, there's a big difference between him responding "You are crazy, it's just cereal, who could ever possibly be so poor as to not be able to afford cereal, everyone I know eats cereal" and his responding "I'm accustomed to eating a lot of cereal.  I would be happy to learn about what you eat instead of cereal.  Of course, we can look at the budget.  Also, BTW there are big sales on cereal sometimes so that's when I stock up."  Fortunately, we both landed closer to the second in each example, but it took some flexibility.  

Assume positive intent

Communicate clearly

Set boundaries (i.e. I expect to be paid back $X a month)

Make room for differences 

You are totally justified in feeling as you do.  But parts of your thinking are adding to, rather than alleviating your stress and distress.  

[Lady Florida.]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

I would probably think it was stupid to buy two $30 Target purses just so she could have two colors. I imagine it would irritate me a bit less because the fact of a designer purse is much less necessary than simply *A* purse, any purse, to be one’s daily purse. But in reality, I would still think buying two purses at once was foolish, except perhaps if they were literally yardsale or thrift store buys for a few dollars each. But I don’t carry purses and, back when I did, I had one at a time (though I had something like a silver clutch for a wedding too). But only ONE purse to be my main purse for a few years until I was tired of it and/or it was worn out. After my car window was smashed in and my purse was stolen at a soccer game in broad daylight, I ceased ever carrying a purse of the usual type. (Except at a wedding or event.) So yeah - purses are meaningless to me. 

 

The bolded is what keeps jumping out at me in a number of your posts. I actually agree with you on a lot of your points. I have a young adult living at home, working part time while attending local college, and living mostly on our dime. I feel he makes some poor financial decisions even though we both did our best (or so we thought) to instill good money habits. He pays for his own personal care items, we kind of go back and forth on him or us paying for clothes, but he's not into fashion much. Jeans and tee shirts are fine by him, plus work clothes. He doesn't pay towards groceries but he'll buy food or drinks he wants or sometimes buy food for general consumption.

He's supposed to pay for insurance on the car. It's actually the newer vehicle and dh and I drive the 2004 van. We're okay with that because he's still precious cargo to us and we wanted him to have the newer safety features that the Camry has. The car is in our name to keep insurance down (Hello. Male driver under 25) but it's essentially his car. He cleans it, puts gas in it, pays the insurance. We pay the current payment but the plan is to soon refinance it so the payments are within his budget and have him take over. In the meantime insurance, gas, cleaning, and general maintenance like oil changes (not tires though) are his responsibilities. His hours were cut during the summer. You would expect summer to be  busier but the cafe where he works is actually slower in summer. As a result we let some ins. payments slide. Earlier this month he went to a sci-fi/comic/cosplay convention in Atlanta - about an 8 hour drive from here. He did his best to keep costs down, his friends who with him contributed gas money, they crashed at the home of some GA friends in order to not have a hotel bill, and ate simply. Still, I loaned him money for his tickets because he needed to buy them early enough to get a lower price than at the door. Since he came back he has not started paying back the tickets ($99) nor has he restarted paying for insurance, even though his hours have started picking up again. Like you, we didn't give him specific dates and amounts so some of the blame falls on us. 

He spends money on upgrading his gaming computer, or on new games, or gaming headphones, or yet another guitar or guitar speaker. He usually saves up for those things rather than just blowing a paycheck on them. That said, he doesn't go out much. I know he had a blast going to Dragoncon, and having done road trips with friends at his age on very little money I know the wonderful memories they create. I don't begrudge him that trip but after reading this thread I plan to get more literal about a repayment plan for his con tickets as well as paying for car insurance again. 

Dh hopes to retire in a few years, once I'm eligible for Medicare (yes, sadly I'm not that far from eligibility). We're in pretty good retirement shape for us, and will be able to continue our current lifestyle but it doesn't include supporting a young adult. We need to start weaning him off our money even more than we've done so far. Decent housing is expensive here even if you have roommates so he'll probably live with us a good 5 more years, but will be paying his way more and more.

I also have the cross cultural issues @LucyStoner brought up, having grown up very poor. (Dh is frugal but by choice. He was never food insecure and he and his siblings had all of their needs plus many of their wants covered.) Still, I try not to let my upbringing affect my dealings with ds. I want him to have better than I did. I'm very happy he hasn't had to grow up financially insecure like I did. 

All of that is to show that I do know where you're coming from but I think you're also allowing some of your own prejudices and possibly your background to get in the way. You think purses are wasteful period. Designer purses even more so. You don't understand why anyone would carry a purse. They're silly accessories so why pay $60 for one? Etc., etc. Which brings be back around to my first sentence. You're letting your extreme (and I do think it's a bit extreme) dislike of purses get in the way. Let it go. Talk to your dd about her spending habits, her bills. Set up a payment plan to pay you back. But let go of the purse thing. It's not going to help and might only cause her to shut down needed communication. 

[Guest]

But @LucyStoner, I did not say she is stupid or foolish, I said I think that decision is stupid or foolish. I think buying a bunch of purses - that behavior - is foolish. My sister did that. It was foolish. My sister was NOT a stupid person. But her spending choices were excessively foolish. 

[SKL]

4 hours ago, Quill said:

My daughter has no authority over whether I paint my door or not. That is the difference. I did not ask her for money to buy groceries and then paint the door. She is dependent upon me and therefore, how she spends money is of a concern to me. I am not dependent upon her. What I buy she may agree or disagree with but it is moot because she doesn’t fund anything I do. 

My anxieties about money are more about the future and mostly are about this next year. I hope I will not bitterly regret taking one more year to homeschool DS13 rather than go earn money or go earn my degree. A lot can change in a year. 

I think people need to take a step back here.  She is largely dependent on you financially, but she is an adult with the same rights as every other adult.

If she had borrowed student loans for example, and bought the exact same purse, it would be nobody's business to tell her off about her values or her priorities.  If she failed to make her payments on her student loans, the issue for the lender would be the payments, not what she spent the money on instead.  (And the way student loans work, she would not even have to deal with that until some time after she graduated.)

Adults who are living off money they did not earn are given some limitations up-front on how they can use the money, but beyond that it is nobody's business.  We've had that discussion many times ... people can and will judge frivolous purchases, but have no right to prevent or punish them.  (Maybe it would be better in the long run if everyone could chide their neighbor about patently stupid choices, but that isn't how we do things.)

So ... the real issues are -

First - OP as lender needs to set clear boundaries as soon as possible about how principal (and possibly interest) gets paid back.  It is on OP that this did not get done at the time of the loan or soon thereafter.  It was predictable that any young adult is going to make mistakes as she learns.  Staking your priority claim on what she earns can help her experience a more realistic financial situation and help you get your money back sooner - both without a lot of drama - assuming she honors her payment commitments.

Second - OP as parent of a young adult should give advice on how to keep in financial health, while understanding that mistakes will be made.  The purpose is not to shame or bring her down a peg or make her think like us.  It's to help her think ahead to the things she will want for her own future household and how her present choices play into that.  It's to give her better tools to pursue what SHE values in the long run.

[Frances]

24 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I haven’t read too many replies. Cause holy moly is like milk in crock pots and shoes in houses.

I think if you are going to give money to someone, even close family living under your roof, you need to presume at least privately, and preferably openly, that it’s been given and let go of any worry of pay back. If you can’t, then it is really best to not give it at all. Either give and never mention it again or don’t give it  

I’d start nipping financial strings if she isn’t managing money well. I wouldn’t make it about character or punishment. It’s just about growing up and learning about making tough financial choices.  Such as, I’d have made her pay the taxes and  accrue the debt for her dental care even if I was willing to help make the payments. She’d have to discuss payment arrangements and set it up herself and I’d explain, if she doesn’t pay them, when she needs dental work later they won’t take her. Or that the irs is going to come and take it with lots of additional expensive fees added on.

I don’t really monitor my adult kids spending other than to sit them down and discuss budgeting if they seem to need advice on it. But we also aren’t paying for much for them either. We help where we can but there isn’t much cash to spread around these days. And frankly, it’s a luxury to be able to afford to argue over France, designer purses, painting doors, and dental work. There’s a huge number of people who can’t afford any of that no matter how well they budget.  So I have difficulty feeling any genuine angst for this situation.  Basicly you regret giving her money for things she either didn’t need and or could have paid for herself - so don’t do that again.  Lesson learned.  Boundary found.  Moving on.

I don’t care what kind of purse it is.

As for cars and fairness/equality to kids. Life isn’t fair. And equal doesn’t always mean same. I do what I can for all my kids, but they are individuals and have to be treated as such. It’d be flat out bad parenting on my part to ignore that.  And parental circumstances change too.

I will say that as someone who lived paycheck to paycheck and tracked every single purchase to the penny for many, many years and is now in a quite different position financially, it is actually very hard to be the parent who could fulfill all needs and wishes to know exactly when and where to draw the financial line. When you don’t have the money, as neither my nor my husband’s parents did when we were growing up and we didn’t for many years, there really is not much to think about. Basic needs are met and there is little to nothing left for wants. Anything extra the child wants, and even sometimes some necessities, has to be earned by the child. You don’t have to worry about spoiling your child or giving them too much or knowing where and when to draw the financial line. So even though it may seem like a luxury to some, and I fully acknowledge the many blessings of our current financial situation, the angst is very real. 

[Lady Florida.]

38 minutes ago, Quill said:

Fun money yes = have a cup of coffee out. Pick up a Krispy Kreme fresh with bf. <snip>Have dinner at Chipotle. 

 

All of those things can quickly add up to $60 and there's nothing to show for it. You ate the donut and Chipotle. You drank the coffee. It's gone. If that's you're idea of fun money the fact that it's gone isn't a problem. But if it's not your idea of a good time it's wasteful, just as the purse seems wasteful to you. As others pointed out she'll likely have the purse for a long time because it's good quality (and so what if she likes the idea of the label, that doesn't lessen its quality). To her that was fun.

As far as the makeup I could go there where you went about the purse. I do think that's wasteful. I might even have a conversation with her about it, about why she insists on it, and maybe even ask her to do some online research about comparable makeup that costs less. But again, that would be my own prejudices. I've always worn drugstore makeup and never understood the "need" for Lancome or Clinique. Even if I discussed it with her I'd try to recognize what I'm bringing to the discussion.