DS17 very interested in joining army after graduating next May... advice, real life experiences, info...

[Dianne-TX]

We don't have any military experience in our families, but support our military 100% and have always been very patriotic and appreciative of the country we live in.  We are so proud of him if he chooses this path, but would like to hear any real life experiences, info, advice...  We talked to a recruiter yesterday and it sounds great and DS is pretty excited and motivated, but hearing real life experiences and info would be helpful, especially for Mom.  ?  Educationally, how did the submitting diploma/transcript work?  I did see info. on the HSLDA website that was helpful.  Thanks!

[SJ.]

I have no help regarding transcripts. The biggest advice I can give is Do NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT, sign an open contract.  Have your son contemplate what he would like to do long term and find an MOS that is in line with that career. 

 

 

[Lori D.]

Totally agree with SJ.

Other things to be aware of: not all recruiters are up on homeschooling protocols, and some will try to tell you that you need a GED or an "accredited" diploma. Absolutely NOT true, and if you are told this, ask to speak to someone above the recruiter who understands how the Army accepts homeschoolers (which is with a parent-awarded diploma and transcript, and no requirement for outside validation).

Here is an article with links that may be helpful: The Homeschool Mom: "Homeschool to Military".

Also, be sure to check out several branches of the military for the best fit for what your DS would like to do -- Coast Guard, for example, or National Guard may be an option. And ROTC and getting a college degree first and then entering as an officer, rather than as enlisted might also be a preferred route. And if considering the Army Academy (West Point), now is the time to be finding out what is needed for admission/applying. Also consider exploring para-military career options, such as Emergency Services, Law Enforcement, Border Patrol, DEA, Merchant Marines, etc -- as many retired military personnel often find they have very limited career options after discharge, compared to somewhat similar civilian career areas.

And, DS can already be working on preparing himself to meet the required physical fitness test.

[Dianne-TX]

Thanks for your responses.  I should have also specified that he DOES want to go to college and joining the military is a path that he is considering to help him pay for that.  He is also now thinking about choosing the active duty, 20 year route in order to get all the benefits plus work on his degree and then basically "retire" from the military to begin drawing retirement after 20 years to then begin his civilian job in his career and degree field, hopefully.  We know a couple of military friends who did this.  The recruiter explained that the Army has really become education focused and if you want to pursue a degree, you may begin doing online classes with any university in the county after a certain time frame and while serving.  He is also thinking about reserves and the officer route after college.  We have a friend whose son is doing this now and I'm going to talk to her, too.  I'll read the article you linked, too, Lori.  He's a researcher/information gatherer and has already checked out the physical test requirements.  ?  He enjoys fitness and working out, so he should do good there, but it helps to see the requirements.  Any other info, helpful advice is welcome!  Thanks!

[egao_gakari]

This was a while ago, so times have probably changed a bit, but my older brother joined the Navy straight out of high school in '04. He longed to be a SEAL, and I think the recruiter kind of "worked" that to convince him to join, but then after he signed on the dotted line, it turned out that his eyesight was too bad to qualify for SEAL training. So that's one thing to be aware of, that they'll say whatever they feel they have to to get you to sign up.

Big bro worked with it though, and he's become highly successful in his chosen specialty, second-highest ranked non-commissioned officer, and is now only 6 years away from making his 20 and retiring at 38 years old. He's contemplating going for the 30 so that he'd be drawing on a bigger pension fund, but hasn't decided yet. When he first joined, he was keeping his options open regarding college, but now I don't think he plans to go even after he retires. His interests have shifted in directions that don't require higher degrees.

My parents were very anxious about his choice, as we're not a military family either, but they decided to trust him on it, and it turned out to be his first "best decision" as an adult. It was exactly the right path, and if it hadn't been, it wouldn't have been an expensive mistake the way college can sometimes be!

**Due to his specialty, I don't believe he ever saw combat directly although he was in combat zones sometimes. So that definitely affects our attitude about it! YMMV as usual ? 

[CAJinBE]

I admire your son's desire to serve. My dh entered the USAF as an officer after ROTC and did a full career. During that time he got his bachelors (ROTC scholarship) and two masters degrees paid for. I would encourage him to try for an ROTC scholarship that includes full tuition, books, and a monthly living stipend. He would have to take an ROTC class with weekly drills and a summer camp between his second and third years. I did it too and it was really fun and an instant group of friends. He would graduate and be commissioned as an officer with an active duty commitment of 4-8 years depending on his scholarship. Compare pay scales for an E-1 and an O-1 and retirement pay for an E-7 and O-5 for example. 

[Lanny]

OP there is some excellent advice in the replies before mine.  I would suggest not believing anything a Recruiter tells him. Get everything in writing. Read EVERY word of the contract. If there is anything ambiguous  (and there probably will be) watch out...

The Reserves would offer him the chance to go to the same Tech Schools as those who sign up for ~4 years and if he eventually decides he likes it, he can transfer from the Reserves to go active duty full time.

Congratulations to him on wanting to do this and for being in the 29% of the young men and women in the USA who are of the eligible age, who are qualified (physical fitness, health (physical and mental), no drugs, no criminal history) to enlist.

The U.S. Military is very Education oriented and they will encourage/push him to get more education.

He should explore other branches and see what the National Guard (Army and Air) have to offer and also the Reserves.

He should be very wary of any "guarantees" that are advertised, in writing or verbally. Verbally means nothing. In writing could be like when I was interested in the "Army Security Agency".  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Security_Agency

Well, when I read the written "guarantee" there were a lot of loopholes for the Army to get out of the contract. If they did not have a slot in the school, if they needed you for something else, whatever. That guarantee, IMO, was more or less 100% worthless to me.

And I went to take the Physical exam for the U.S. Army.  When I finished, a man told me, (and my wife and DD laugh when I tell them this) "you are fully qualified for the Paratroopers".   Well, with High Myopia I didn't think that indicated a lot of intelligence on the part of the U.S. Army.  If I jumped out of an airplane and lost my eyeglasses, I would be in deep trouble.

One of my cousins is an eminent M.D. in his specialty. Recently he wrote to me that he Enlisted, twice, in the U.S. Marine Corps.  In retrospect, he wishes that he had waited until he graduated, and gone in as an Officer.  Hindsight is usually 20-20.

"Look before you leap" is a very good thing for him to do at this time. He should explore the various boards on the web as well as the official https://www.defense.gov/

web sites, in a leisurely manner.

Good luck to him with his decision!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Probably the most important thing i would tell him is that joining the military is an exchange. He is offering his service, his physical well-being, and possibly his life in exchange for pay, training, opportunity for service, lifestyle,  excitement, etc.  It is easy to lose sight of the fact that the potential volunteer can walk away of the exchange isn't a good one. 

Walking away from one recruiter doesn't mean walking away from all.  Waiting for a new quarter or new fiscal year might be advantageous.  Often another service has a similar role (ex. Navy and Marine Corps aviation in addition to the Air Force.  Even Coast Guard aviation.)

Other comments.

Just because a program exists doesn't mean an individual service member will be able to take advantage of it.  Enlisted to Officer commissioning programs exist, but have eligibility requirements and mat be highly competitive.  College programs exist but might be less accessible if one is deployed, on shift work, or in the field frequently for training.  (Ex. One of my ships had colleg instructors onboard for intro math and English classes.  But if a sailor was obligated for a watch it was a challenge to make it down for the classes.)

Also programs like GO Bill or retirement or health care post retirement change all the time. Just because something is the policy today doesn't mean it will be the policy in 6 months or 20 years.

Corollary.  What old veterans tell you about their service is related to their experience and limited by time, place, and military specialty. Also time has a way of highlighting both the highs and the lows.  Seeking out current servicemember in areas of interest can be useful.

I have experience both as a vet, military spouse, and parent of two Navy ROTC students.  Ask lots of questions. There is a lot of military experience here.

[....]

I was in the army for 7 years...most of my family has been in the army.  My sister just got out as a captain.  Feel free to pm me if you have any specific questions.  I wouldn't make any long-term plans like "I plan to be in for 20 years, etc".  He might get in and absolutely hate it or get injured or even get married and not want to stay in.  You have to be very flexible.

I'll make a list.

Bad Things: 

• They trashed my body...well and my sister's body and my BIL's body.  Both my sister and BIL are on partial disability now (and they are only in their 30s).  They don't care about you, they don't care about your physical condition later in life.  The medical care is awful.  You basically get punished for going to the doctor.  We did all kinds of things that caused permanent damage - running on concrete constantly, running in boots...heck, running in boots on concrete! (Lol)  My sister can not stand without wearing tennis shoes.  I had stress fractures everywhere in my feet at one point and had to wear custom orthotics for years.  I ended up losing 2 molars while I was in the military, because the dental care was so bad.
• You basically live in a building with about 100 wild kids in their late teens with little adult supervision.  *ahem*. Yep, all kinds of stuff went on that I'm not going to post on here.
• The stress to be perfect in everything you do...down to what you weigh...can be overwhelming for some people.  There were a lot of attempted suicides/people losing it/people running away, etc.  I also have all kinds of stories that I don't feel comfortable posting on here.
• You don't make very much money.  To the point where around the bases, there is a little "payday loan problem".  Our 1st Sergeant once said that if the base picked up and moved, all that cr@p would pick up and follow it.  Lol.  
• They can make any changes they want to your career and there isn't anything you can do about it.  I was actually overseas when I ETS'd (end of time in service) and everybody just forgot about it or didn't care.  We all thought that was funny.  They ended up extending my contract.  So, I didn't get out when I thought I would. 

Good Things:

• You make some of the best friends you will ever make in your entire life.  I saved someone's life by just being in the right place at the right time.  I watched as my friend saved another person's life (she came within inches of being crushed by a helicopter wheel as she was trying to hook up something and my friend grabbed her by the LCE and pulled her out of the way).  Well, you get the idea. You become close friends after stuff like that.  I still miss friends I made during those years.  Every once in a while, I will even have dreams that I'm with my platoon-mates again.
• You become a "get stuff done" person.  I still have a hard time understanding why civilians take so long to do things or why they get overwhelmed with tasks that look simple to me (sorry, everybody!  just being honest).  Or how people can sleep until 10am (what the heck??).  Or why people are so easily offended.  You don't get the luxury of being offended in the army.
• I did go to college for free.  I was a resident of a state where you got free tuition for 4 years at one of the state universities if you were a veteran.  So, that came in handy.  Plus, I had bought the GI Bill (so I got a stipend while I was in college).
• Traveling.  I won't list all the places I've been to, but it's pretty incredible.

Sorry for rambling.  Hope something out of there was helpful.

 

[Free Indeed]

We have a family history of service, and after some research my son decided to join the Navy. The recruiter we had was very upfront and helpful. The “getting in” wasn’t an issue- the level of security clearance he needed for his job was a little more difficult being homeschooled, but not over the top. The hardes part was the lady who kept asking me what curriculum provider we used for our homeschool- I kept telling her there were several we didn’t just use 1 company, she needed a name to fill in her blank and I was being “difficult”- so I gave her a name of a popular curriculum and that was that. ? 

My son has done well and enjoys his job. He has a military personality though- get it done- etc... He has been in 3 years now. 

I do agree with the comment above about 100 young people all living under one roof-  their is accountability, but not all is seen. My son has driven many a drunk puking sailor back to base when they called for help. 

My next daughter is considering joining once she gets her nursing degree as an officer- she wants to serve- and she thinks it would be awesome that her brother would have to salute her. ?

my middle girl isn’t the right personality fit for military service, but my 15 year old is also considering it. 

[Dianne-TX]

Thank you ALL for your time and responses!  I appreciate every single one and I am sharing them with DS, too.  Thank you!

[Lecka]

I am skipping to the bottom but the Army is in the process of changing all their retirement benefits.

My impression is my husband is grandfathered into the traditional pension, guys a few years younger than him picked in the last year to have a traditional pension or a 401 (k) type thing, and new people have a 401 (k) type thing.

Honestly I’m not following it at all as it doesn’t effect us, but I saw your son interested in the traditional 20-year retirement and I think it’s something for him to look into and make sure it’s an option for him.

 

[Lecka]

Okay it’s called “Blended Retirement System” and with a very short google my impression is if your son joins now he would be getting a 401(k) type of retirement plan and not a pension.  But I did not read an entire article to see if he can opt in later or something like that.  

Edit:  I looked again and there is an annuity with a reduced amount compared to now, so I guess it is like a pension.

Still something to check on I think.  

[Lanny]

Lots of outstanding comments in thsi thread. About retiring in 20 years.... Sometimes although that is what the person would like, it's not what the military will permit.

An example of this is a "RIF".  One of the definitions of that acronym is "Reduction in Force".  If they reduce the number of people, some need to go...

Another thing that can happen is that one is passed over for promotion. Sometimes they will allow that person to get their 20 years in (if they are close to that) and other times not. 

There are a lot of pros and cons as have been pointed out here.

[chiguirre]

Quote

 

If your son is interested in the Merchant Marine, take a look at TAMU-Galveston.

http://www.tamug.edu/corps/

[Lecka]

Right now in the Army the officer promotion rates are extremely high, at least through Major.  Extremely, extremely high.  They have been for 10-15 years.

But it is true that sometimes a Captain isn’t promoted to Major and has to leave the Army and not be eligible for retirement.  But that happens on the early side; not close to 20 years.  

We have seen many more officers be medically discharged.  

[RootAnn]

I live in an area where lots of people are ex-military (mostly ex-Navy). I wanted to echo the retire-after-20-years thing is never a guarantee. We've seen a handful of people forced out after 17, 18, or (in one case) 19 years.

My brother fell for an enlusted recruiting promise and ended up in a grunt job. He grew up a lot quickly and fought the long way into the Naval Academy. It was good for him, but I do think if you have the personality for it, I'd go ROTC / officer if possible.

We are a military family (brother, DH, my dad & many uncles on both sides, maternal grandfather, etc) but I don't know if any of my kids will chose that route. It is a very different environment than what my DH went through but that has been almost 20 years ago that he got out. Kudos to your son (and the others mentioned in this thread) who are willing to serve. 

[Lecka]

Also my understanding is the reduction in troop levels in the Clinton administration was mostly due to fewer troops being posted along the border with the Soviet Union.  

There has been some reduction in troop levels since the increase during the Iraq War.  But it’s not on the same level as what happened with the Soviet Union. 

Anyway, right now at least, it is not common for people to not be permitted to stay in until retirement.  But never say never, they will certainly change regulations and policies to suit what they want to do at the time.  

[Lecka]

Personally I have only known of people getting medical discharges being put out at 17, 18, 19 years.  But there are big differences between the different services, locations, job areas, etc.

I am disappointed to hear that is happening, I don’t think it is fair at all.  

[Sneezyone]

DH is Navy and just hit 20 this year. He’s also been an officer programs recruiter (many come from other occupations so they can be in their hometowns for a while).

We also have a nephew who enlisted in the Army last year so we’ve given this same advice to our own loved ones. Reiterating a few things too...

Make sure you enlist (or go officer) with a specialty/designation lined up (one that you can live with). My bestie went AF officer and accepted Missileer because it’s ‘what they had open’. It was a horrible fit. She’s still in, will get to retire, and ended up working in treaties (and loving it!) BUT that work is not valued in missileer advancement so no more promotions for her! Lots of people enlist as Navy hull technicians (HTs) not knowing that they’ll be responsible for toilet issues aboard ship too. So, as they say in the Navy, you choose your rate you choose your fate!

If there are no jobs currently available in the career field that you want, wait for the next quarter or fiscal year when more jobs open up. 

Don’t accept the recruiter’s assessment of what jobs you qualify for without checking around. My DH enlisted as a ETSN (a submarine nuclear electronics technician). Our nephew had higher ASVAB scores than DH and the recruiter suggested he become an MA (a master at arms, basically a policeman). NOT GOOD. The training you get in the tech fields (especially nukes) is second to none and much more valuable in the civilian world.

Lastly, don’t let anyone convince you that you ‘can just switch’ from E to O. Those programs are **extremely** competitive and it’s not just based on testing. You’d need a sustained, superior record over 4+years. My DH actually did make the switch and has helped a dozen others do it too but that’s about one sailor every other year and these folks are OUTSTANDING. I’m talking sailor of the quarter or year, nothing less than must promote evals, excellent fitness, bachelor’s and/or master’s degrees while on active duty, etc.

One more thing on the retirement front, yes, new people have an annuity/401k type plan. If you have ANY inkling that you might want to stay until retirement, you must contribute to that plan every month, without fail, from your own pay. If you do, the value of your retirement benefit may actually exceed that of current 20-year, high-three, cliff retirees. If you don’t, you will find your retirement benefit is significantly less than theirs.

DHs service has afforded us tremendous opportunities and I’m glad he does what he does but everything he’s done has been the hard way. ?

 

[Pen]

Subbing.  

[...................]

I have a lot of military family...all really served because they really wanted to...

Some have benefited and used their GI Bill and had a great second career with no major hitches or setbacks.  Others stayed in for the whole 20 years and retired after climbing very high in the ranks to the highest NCO positions available but suffer from a bit of depression from being at war over and over as well as physical problems from the strain on the body.  Others have been exposed to chemicals during employment, suffered strange and unexplained diseases and immune problems and been medically discharged. Still others are  in the beginning stages and do not really yet know where the journey will take them.

It's important to understand that you are enlisting as an officer of the ARMY or ARMED forces of the United States. You are agreeing to give your entire self, your body, even your life for your country.  While it is great that we take care of our men and women in arms, provide GI Bills, college, lifetime medical and decent retirement plans, it is not the primary reason to go in.  The primary reason has to be the desire to serve this great nation and its people.

Also, a side note...they no longer do "fat Camp" in boot camp, so if your kid is even a little bit overweight he has to get in shape *before* they will allow him to enlist. A lot of kids get turned away for this nowadays. 

EVERY single one of them would encourage your kid to become an officer through ROTC if at all possible ?

[Sneezyone]

One more thing, I know a lot of people poo-poo enlisted pay and, in many cases that’s justifiable (advancement in some rates is very slow). However, when DH enlisted his sign on package included accelerated advancement and very large bonuses. For nukes it’s varied from 7.5K to 15K per year (on top of regular pay and allowances). Because of that, a lot of ppl in his field made Chief in as few as 8 years. For us, that meant we could comfortably buy our first home at 20 and 22. We are still reaping the benefits of that.

It was also NOT a no-brainer for him to go officer after making Chief so early. He loved leading/mentoring sailors and gets to do a lot less of that as an officer. The roles are very different. He often lamented that he couldn’t keep doing what he loved and continue to increase income for our family.

Ppl. join up for all sorts of reasons and you will interact with all of them. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t have some love for the nation and all but not everyone is rah-rah about it. The longer DH is in, the less he cares about that and the more he cares about the relationships/friendships he’s developed along the way. Eager-beaver-ness only gets you so far. There’s also an element of cold, hard calculus. For DH, a big part of that was money and benefits (like transferring the GI Bill to our kids) and finding mentors who could help him choose plum assignments and map out his path years in advance.

Some officers get bonuses too, of course, and not just pilots and doctors/nurses either. The current bonus for Surface Warfare Officers is up to 105K for about 8 years of commissioned service. Obv, the bonus is high because the work is demanding but, for those with the aptitude and inclination, it can be quite lucrative.

 

[Lecka]

The officer/enlisted thing is different for us, too.  My husband is in the Infantry (in the Army) and right now he is on staff, he doesn’t like it that much, he goes to meetings, he sits at a desk and types on a computer and answers phone calls.

It is not why he joined the Army at all.  

He joined to do cool soldier things.  

He got to do that about the first 15 years of his career.  His last 5 years will be staff/teaching.  

Officers in his branch get very good, cool, name schools while they are young.  They get them while they are lieutenants or while they are still in college.  Like — Ranger, Airborne, things like that.

Those schools can be harder to get as enlisted. Probably enlist with Airborne school in your contract if that is desired!  

But overall there is much more cool soldier stuff in my husband’s career than for an officer.  They do much more planning and being-in-charge where they are in an office or in a command tent or something.  They aren’t really out doing stuff in the same way.  

Then at the same time they also aren’t doing the monotonous or menial things, either.  

But it can depend what people want to do and what they are drawn to.

I agree that it is hard to go from enlisted to officer.  

There are a lot of ironies too, when it comes to branches.  Infantry is a prestige branch within the Army for sure, and Quartermaster (Logisics) is a loser branch.  But when it comes to civilian jobs, Quartermaster officers have got great, marketable, desirable skills.  

For officers they often (I don’t know all the details) don’t get to choose their branch.  It is competitive and then they also balance people so some higher-performers go to the less-popular branches.  

Its not like enlisted where you do get to choose what branch you will be in, and can enlist for things like Airborne school.

So for officers the most prestige branches to a lot of people are things like Infantry, Armor, and Scouts.  

But then someone could want Infantry but then get assigned to Quartermaster.  

That is just how it goes for officers, at least for the Army.  

I think for some branches if that is what you want to do, the chances are excellent, because they are not popular.  But these can be the kinds of things that are very sensible and have good civilian-related skills and training. 

Something with ROTC also is that not everyone may be offered an active duty commission at the end of ROTC, some people may be offered a National Guard commission.  So going to ROTC doesn’t guarantee an active duty commission or a desired branch.

But for a motivated and talented young person — I think they have an excellent chance of getting an active duty commission and their branch of choice.  But it’s not guaranteed.

You can also ask at ROTC programs how many of their cadets commissioned into different branches and how many commissioned into active duty.  It is something you can ask and see what the different programs have in common or where they are different.  

Edit:  the sensible people who want technical training or job training probably do not think Quartermaster is a loser branch!  But come on, it is the Army, a lot of people want to do the cool stuff like in a movie.   

It is one of those things where there are very different mentalities.  

And then some people think people in the Infantry are stupid and think “why would you want to do that.”  

But my husband did cool stuff for 15 years and then now he is doing deskwork and taking online college so he has a 4-year degree when he retires.  Definitely I know people my age right now whose husbands have technical civilian careers lined up for after they retire.  It is something for sure.  My husband will be okay too, but he needs his degree!  

[Lecka]

This is a little separate, but my husband has made decisions to prioritize his family over his career a few times, and it has led to him not meeting some goals he had as a young person.  He has been conflicted over that, sometimes a lot.  

Some things are very demanding and you hear about divorce rates and time away from home, and it can get to be something where sometimes it’s a choice to make not to pursue it because of the commitment level.  

Also for people my husband knows, it is very hard to see their kids if they get a divorce.  They are still PCSing hither and yon, while their ex-wife stays put.  

It is very stark for my husband.

 But socially I know people where the husband and 2nd wife have school-year custody, and where I would say it is working out well for them and the kids.  But those are people I meet through kids’ activities.  The people whose kids are with another parent in another state during the school year, are not people I ever meet at kids’ activities.  

 But my husband always knows sad guys in this situation, at work.  

And then often, there may not be job opportunities available for someone to quit the Army and live back in their hometown, so it’s not as easy as quitting the Army to live where the kids are.  It can be a really poor or unrealistic option sometimes, even if it’s also reasonable for the kids to live there and be around extended family.  It just is not very nice for the dad, and a lot will miss their kids but feel like they need to stay in the Army to be responsible.  

[Sneezyone]

56 minutes ago, Lecka said:

The officer/enlisted thing is different for us, too.  My husband is in the Infantry (in the Army) and right now he is on staff, he doesn’t like it that much, he goes to meetings, he sits at a desk and types on a computer and answers phone calls.

It is not why he joined the Army at all.  

He joined to do cool soldier things.  

He got to do that about the first 15 years of his career.  His last 5 years will be staff/teaching.  

Officers in his branch get very good, cool, name schools while they are young.  They get them while they are lieutenants or while they are still in college.  Like — Ranger, Airborne, things like that.

Those schools can be harder to get as enlisted. Probably enlist with Airborne school in your contract if that is desired!  

But overall there is much more cool soldier stuff in my husband’s career than for an officer.  They do much more planning and being-in-charge where they are in an office or in a command tent or something.  They aren’t really out doing stuff in the same way.  

Then at the same time they also aren’t doing the monotonous or menial things, either.  

But it can depend what people want to do and what they are drawn to.

I agree that it is hard to go from enlisted to officer.  

There are a lot of ironies too, when it comes to branches.  Infantry is a prestige branch within the Army for sure, and Quartermaster (Logisics) is a loser branch.  But when it comes to civilian jobs, Quartermaster officers have got great, marketable, desirable skills.  

For officers they often (I don’t know all the details) don’t get to choose their branch.  It is competitive and then they also balance people so some higher-performers go to the less-popular branches.  

Its not like enlisted where you do get to choose what branch you will be in, and can enlist for things like Airborne school.

So for officers the most prestige branches to a lot of people are things like Infantry, Armor, and Scouts.  

But then someone could want Infantry but then get assigned to Quartermaster.  

That is just how it goes for officers, at least for the Army.  

I think for some branches if that is what you want to do, the chances are excellent, because they are not popular.  But these can be the kinds of things that are very sensible and have good civilian-related skills and training. 

Something with ROTC also is that not everyone may be offered an active duty commission at the end of ROTC, some people may be offered a National Guard commission.  So going to ROTC doesn’t guarantee an active duty commission or a desired branch.

But for a motivated and talented young person — I think they have an excellent chance of getting an active duty commission and their branch of choice.  But it’s not guaranteed.

You can also ask at ROTC programs how many of their cadets commissioned into different branches and how many commissioned into active duty.  It is something you can ask and see what the different programs have in common or where they are different.  

Edit:  the sensible people who want technical training or job training probably do not think Quartermaster is a loser branch!  But come on, it is the Army, a lot of people want to do the cool stuff like in a movie.   

It is one of those things where there are very different mentalities.  

And then some people think people in the Infantry are stupid and think “why would you want to do that.”  

But my husband did cool stuff for 15 years and then now he is doing deskwork and taking online college so he has a 4-year degree when he retires.  Definitely I know people my age right now whose husbands have technical civilian careers lined up for after they retire.  It is something for sure.  My husband will be okay too, but he needs his degree!  

 

This made me smile. DH had a CO on one ship that loved, I mean REALLY loved firing missiles. That was his reason for serving. He’d wax on for eons about flight paths and intercepts, etc. whereas DH would talk about nothing but ‘his’ sailors, helping them grow personally/technically and make the most of their careers. It takes all kinds to make it work. ?

[Lecka]

My husband was a SAW gunner (before we met) and still talks about it.  It is basically a big machine gun and it’s very heavy.  He LOVED shooting it.  

He does care about mentoring soldiers too, but he gets really excited by stuff like that.  The last thing like that, he went to a school to be the guy who sits on a rappel tower, and does the safety checks and whatever.  He loved it, he got to slack line off of a tower.  I think he rappelled out of a helicopter, I’m not sure.  

He loved it.

But he did not love sitting on top of the tower for hours, while other people rappelled.  He didn’t hate it or anything, but it’s just a different thing. That is why he was sent to the school, though, they needed somebody to do it.  

He also went to bus driver school for that job.  

It is just how it goes, sometimes you are rappelling, sometimes you are driving a bus.  

And sometimes driving the bus to the place with the rappell tower.  

[....]

7 hours ago, Lecka said:

I think he rappelled out of a helicopter, I’m not sure.  

 

At the risk of giving out TMI about myself, I almost lost my finger rappelling out of a helicopter.   ?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

1 hour ago, Margaret in CO said:

Just want to throw this out there--Senior Military Colleges offer Active Duty if you want it. Civilian ROTC programs do not guarantee that. However, if you don't want the military lifestyle IN college, a SMC is not for you. My ds told me he is glad he did ROTC at a civilian school. My dd is glad she picked a SMC.  Sobering time this evening--went to the 75th anniversary of a B-24 crash in the mountains to the north of us--the day my dd left for AF training. 

 

A young ensign, a couple years ahead of my oldest from his smc and NROTC unit died during small boat training last week.

[Lecka]

I’m sorry to hear that, also.  

[Ravin]

14 hours ago, Evanthe said:

 

At the risk of giving out TMI about myself, I almost lost my finger rappelling out of a helicopter.   ?

 

That should be on the list: you might lose body parts. I knew a girl in the Navy who almost lost her finger when a hatch closed on it. It was severed and had to be re-attached.

The military involves hazardous work at least some of the time no matter what your MOS/Rating. 

One of my favorite books that talks about the values vs. hazards of service is Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein. I highly recommend it as a read for any young person considering military service. It reflects the universals, not the particularities (given that it's about a fictitious military). Heinlein was a Naval officer at one point in his life--he was, iirc, forced out by a tuberculosis infection (this was in the 1930's I think). 

Anyway, the point I'm getting to is that if it's where you want to be, the downsides are all worth it.

Some downsides I haven't seen listed:

You will have to work with unpleasant people. Bullies, queen bees, lazy people, people who don't like you for your race/religion/gender/politics, or who gossip about you or others, etc. No matter how unpleasant your coworkers or immediate supervisors are, quitting is not an option. Depending on the circumstances, there are avenues to involve your higher-ups in correcting problems, but often it's just a matter of learning to deal with people who are drastically different from you in a professional way. 

At the same time, you find great friends, too, often friends you'd never make in any other environment, as others have mentioned.

Just remember, when someone tells you that the military experience will be an adventure, the definiton of "adventure" is, "someone else in very bad trouble, very far away."

Still worth it.

[Dianne-TX]

Thank you, again, for all this wonderful information, insight, advice, sharing experiences...  it is so incredibly helpful!  We're still learning and I have a few questions regarding ROTC and Reserves...

ROTC...

Can anyone do this at their particular college/univ or is it only if you are awarded the scholarship and chosen?  Also, does the 8 year commitment include the 4 years of college or does the 8 years begin after graduation? 

After college option...

If he goes to college just as he would normally, non-military, could he then enlist and still be considered an officer or be able to go to officer's training when he enlists or would he still start out as a private (?)/beginning recruit? (sorry, I don't know what the appropriate title is...)

Reserves...

He's not seeing much financial help for school with this option, can you help us understand it better?  Also, is he committed to the Reserves after college as well or is it just during his college years up to graduation?  And, would he still go to basic with this option and then just come back home to begin college wherever he decides to go?  Who is best to talk to about reserves?  The recruiter we talked to said he was more active duty recruitment.  Is there a different recruiter for Reserves?

Other military branches...

Are other military branches similar in what they offer for tuition help, jobs, etc.?

Thanks again!

 

[Dianne-TX]

Oh, forgot one more question...

What is the reality of basic and barrack living?  I can only imagine what a bunch of young adult men might do when they get together (not higher rank because of the consequences at that level, I'm sure), especially the jerks (sorry, I know some personally).  I can envision bullying, hazing, initiation-type stuff and no one telling because "you just don't do that".  I know it might be a step up from what I'm imagining because it is the military after all, but some of that might still go on, am I right?  Sigh.  Sorry if I sound like a prude, but...need to know and not ashamed to ask.  This might also be why many suggest ROTC or going in as an officer?  Thanks for honest answers.

[Lecka]

Officers make much more money. 

Officers have to have a 4-year degree (as far as I know).  Enlisted do not, and usually don’t earn one while in active duty, but some do.  

As far as I know (I know about one ROTC program lol) anyone can show up for freshman and sophomore ROTC.  Junior and Senior year they intend to commission.

There are some 4-year scholarships and some of these are National Guard scholarships, so some people do get scholarships and always intend to join the Nat’l Guard.  But more often many want to join active duty and are competing for an active duty slot, with people who don’t make an active duty slot getting a Nat’l Guard slot. 

I know little about the Reserves other than active Reserves.  I think talk to a Reserve recruiter. 

I think for many of your questions contact a ROTC program and ask, they will have a recruiter whose job it is to answer your questions.  

As far as bad behavior — there is a lot of drinking.  There is a lot of drinking for both officers and enlisted.

However officers are all a bit older, they have been to college.  Many enlisted in barracks are just out of high school.

As far as I know most barracks are suite-style now in the continental US.  

Edit: and as far as I know single officers often rent apartments off post, or rent a house with roommates.  I am not aware of them living in barracks.  

[Lecka]

It is possible to become an officer with a college degree, but I think it would be better to do ROTC or a service academy.  They are getting experience and training, and chances to meet people and ask questions, while they are there. It’s a big advantage.  

Edit: also for some branches I don’t think it is at-all common to get them other than through ROTC or a service academy.  So if he would want to do certain things that would matter.  

There is competition for some branches.

That is all for officer — for enlisted you can enlist in a specific MOS.

I only know about the Army!  There are differences but I don’t know what they are lol.

 

[Lecka]

As far as bad behavior — I do think you choose your friends, to some extent, and need to make wise friend choices.  

Not everyone drinks but for me personally with my husband’s job, there is a lot of drinking, it is common.  

As far as drug use there is regular drug testing.  

[Lecka]

I don’t hear about hazing other than sending new people to ask for a “left-handed wrench.”  But would I?  So I would say I don’t have an impression that there are hazing issues, but I don’t know that I would hear about it.  

[Lecka]

For me to share my top concerns from what I hear about, number one is poor choice in romance, and dating people who treat them poorly.  Number two is getting a huge car loan and then being broke from it.  Number three is getting ripped off with a used car from a car lot that targets young soldiers.  

 

[Lecka]

The summer training that ROTC can do is a huge, huge advantage compared to someone who wants to join as an officer post-college.  

And it can be training that isn’t as easy to get later!  

For my husband just because he wants to attend a certain school, it doesn’t mean that there is a slot for him to go, or that his unit can spare him.  That is a big reason to do the schools early.  

Plus some schools are looked on very favorably for years to come, especially for certain jobs.  

Whatever someone’s career ambitions are, that can start with choosing what schools they want to attend while they are still in ROTC.  

And then — they can be thinking about it their freshman and sophomore year.

That is all my impression, I do not know really, but it is how it comes across.  

[....]

2 hours ago, Dianne-TX said:

Oh, forgot one more question...

What is the reality of basic and barrack living?  I can only imagine what a bunch of young adult men might do when they get together (not higher rank because of the consequences at that level, I'm sure), especially the jerks (sorry, I know some personally).  I can envision bullying, hazing, initiation-type stuff and no one telling because "you just don't do that".  I know it might be a step up from what I'm imagining because it is the military after all, but some of that might still go on, am I right?  Sigh.  Sorry if I sound like a prude, but...need to know and not ashamed to ask.  This might also be why many suggest ROTC or going in as an officer?  Thanks for honest answers.

 

My experience is as enlisted, so keep that in mind.  My sister's and uncles' experiences as officers were different.

Barracks living in training locations = once a week standing outside in the middle of the night in formation for 2 hours while being screamed at, because someone "lost" $50.  In basic training, one person in my barracks threatened to kill everyone.  Some cliques...some minor bullying...some people crying, because they want to go home.  Some people really staying to themselves and trying to stay out of trouble.

Barracks living at your permanent duty station...ours were co-ed.  Usually all the lower-ranking people lived together and the higher-ranking people lived somewhere else.  All the married people lived off on their own, too.  We would have a handful of lower-ranking NCOs in the building (me and a few others- Lol).  It would run the gamut.  Some soldiers just played video games constantly, some drank a TON, there would always be one really religious guy, some partied a lot, there were 2 suicides in our barracks, one guy accidentally lit our barracks on fire, etc.  If I could pick one thing to complain about, it was drinking.  There was just a ton of drinking where I was stationed.  I guess there was nothing else to do.  I did see a really bad fistfight in the barracks and ironically, it was between two higher-ranking guys.  So, yes, some trouble.  

It's kinda like you're 17 and you live in a big apartment building with your 150 teenage brothers and 5 sisters...and your parents are hardly ever home.  And when you know they're on their way, everyone cleans.  That basically describes it.        

[Lecka]

I also see a lot of drinking.  

My husband says with the suite-style barracks and this different way of assigning rooms he thinks they (lower enlisted) just go hole up in their rooms.

They do not assign rooms by unit anymore, or they don’t currently, in the Army (or at least at our current and former posting), so instead of living and working together and always hanging out, they get assigned to a room in a random barracks.  

But that’s one of those things, who knows how long it will last.  

Also my husband’s finger is not on the pulse lol.  

[Lecka]

I will say for the Army they have spent a lot of money on housing (on-post family housing) and barracks and there has been a lot of new construction and renovation in the last ten years.  

A lot you might hear about housing is out-of-date, it’s much nicer now.  

[Sebastian (a lady)]

8 hours ago, Dianne-TX said:

Thank you, again, for all this wonderful information, insight, advice, sharing experiences...  it is so incredibly helpful!  We're still learning and I have a few questions regarding ROTC and Reserves...

ROTC...

Can anyone do this at their particular college/univ or is it only if you are awarded the scholarship and chosen?  Also, does the 8 year commitment include the 4 years of college or does the 8 years begin after graduation? 

After college option...

If he goes to college just as he would normally, non-military, could he then enlist and still be considered an officer or be able to go to officer's training when he enlists or would he still start out as a private (?)/beginning recruit? (sorry, I don't know what the appropriate title is...)

Reserves...

He's not seeing much financial help for school with this option, can you help us understand it better?  Also, is he committed to the Reserves after college as well or is it just during his college years up to graduation?  And, would he still go to basic with this option and then just come back home to begin college wherever he decides to go?  Who is best to talk to about reserves?  The recruiter we talked to said he was more active duty recruitment.  Is there a different recruiter for Reserves?

Other military branches...

Are other military branches similar in what they offer for tuition help, jobs, etc.?

Thanks again!

 

 

Let me take a swing at some of these.  My background is as an alumna of the US Naval Academy and as the parent of two Navy ROTC midshipmen, both on scholarship.  My comments will mostly apply to Navy programs.  There is a lot of overlap with other services, but also many differences.

I would highly recommend the website serviceacademyforums.com for info on ROTC, specific ROTC units, and also other officer commissioning programs.

I would also very much recommend that he do as much of the research as possible himself.  Perhaps with your guidance or the mentoring of another trusted adult.  Joining the military is pretty serious stuff.  He will probably make a better decision if he has done more of the research.

ROTC is an officer commissioning program in which students at civilian schools take part in military training through weekly drills and regular classes.  Graduates are commissioned as 2nd Lieutenants or Ensigns.  Units vary by school from very large units, such as what you see at a senior military college (which has a dedicated Corps of Cadets), to very small, to even smaller detachments that do drill and classes at another nearby college (crosstown units).  So Virginia Tech might have around 1200 cadets in the Corps of Cadets, with around 400 in each ROTC unit.  A large university might have 120 midshipmen in the unit.  A small crosstown detachment might have fewer than 10 students at the college, who drive each week to the other school in order to attend drill and classes.

Some ROTC students are on scholarship.  This covers tuition, fees, uniforms, a book stipend, and a monthly stipend.  It does not cover room and board.  Scholarship students are committed after the first year of scholarship for freshmen and sophomores.  

Students may affiliate with the unit even if they are not on scholarship.  They participate in drills and take the same classes.  They apply for scholarships as current midshipmen.  In the Navy this is called being a College Program student.  I believe that students must apply for advanced standing in order to remain active midshipmen as juniors and seniors, if they are not on scholarship.  It is possible to have advanced standing and end up with a commission, even without ever having a scholarship.

The Navy leans very heavily towards students who are doing engineering and technical majors.  It is very uncommon to receive a scholarship unless you are in a Tier 1 (mostly engineering) or Tier 2 (other technical) major.  Scholarship students also have a gpa requirement to retain the scholarship.  http://www.nrotc.navy.mil/scholarship_criteria.html  The national 4 year scholarship process has many parts and is quite competitive.  Students who don't earn a 4 year scholarship may still earn one once they are in the unit, especially if they demonstrate lots of leadership and academic potential.  

If someone enlists, they are enlisted (example private, corporal, sergeant, petty officer, chief petty officer).  Enlistments are for a particular period of time.  Someone might enlist with a guarantee of a particular job field (MOS, specialty, or Rate) which is usually based on ASVAB scores, how in demand the job is, and sometimes physical ability.  It is also possible to enlist without a particular job training guarantee.  This is usually not a good idea.  The servicemember will not go directly to an advanced training school, but will report as a lower skilled person (unrated, in Navy terms).  Then they have to try to strike for a specialty through on the job training, self-study, and approval of the command, while also doing a full day's work in whatever work center they were assigned.  In the Navy, this would involve a lot of cleaning, chipping paint, painting, working in the scullery, work parties for line handlers or hauling boxes full of supplies and other not great tasks.  It is much better to go through boot camp and then go to a specialty school and report to the first real command with a rate and a useful skill set (like welder, electronics technician, operations specialist (think radar), gunner's mate, engineman, etc).

Reserves.

Yes, there are special recruiters for the Navy Reserves.  There are also recruiters who do just officer recruiting.  Within officer recruiting, there can also be specialization by designator (job specialty).  For example, there might be an officer recruiter for surface warfare and another one for reserve naval intelligence.

For the Navy, I don't think there are many tuition assistance programs within the Navy Reserves.  Some reservists who are activated (called to active duty for more than routine training - think several years of active duty) can be eligible for Tuition Assistance or for the Post 9/11 GI Bill.  https://www.military.com/education/money-for-school/reserve-tuition-assistance.html

Navy Reserves  https://www.todaysmilitary.com/joining/navy-reserve

FWIW, I would only recommend the reserves to someone who is willing to be recalled to active duty.  In some cases often and for long periods of time.  During the cold war, reserves might have been a weekend a month and a couple weeks in the summer.  That isn't the reality for most reservists anymore.  

[CAJinBE]

Sebastian did a great job of explaining everything. I would just like to add that when you are in ROTC at a civilian school you go to your classes like everyone else, but once a week for Freshmen and Sophomores and three times a week for Juniors and Seniors, you will wear your uniform to class. So as you walk around campus all day you will be saluting higher ranking cadets, wearing a cap that you have to remove and put on at appropriate times, etc. Civilian students will be lounging around on the quad or sitting in a relaxed posture in class, but on the days you wear the uniform, you will be behaving like an officer in training. On top of your regular classes you will have to attend ROTC class where you will learn all about the service branch you're entering, career fields, history, etc. And for us, one night a week was drill where we all got together to march around the armory building or sometimes do PT. You very quickly learned who was in your classes and could make study groups. We also socialized after drill night. There was drinking but not too much since no one wanted to lose their scholarship. There were clubs to join too like drill team, sports teams, or honor societies which led to opportunities to travel. I attended a large university (30.,000+) so ROTC was my instant connection to friends and support. 

[SJ.]

16 hours ago, Evanthe said:

 

My experience is as enlisted, so keep that in mind.  My sister's and uncles' experiences as officers were different.

Barracks living in training locations = once a week standing outside in the middle of the night in formation for 2 hours while being screamed at, because someone "lost" $50.  In basic training, one person in my barracks threatened to kill everyone.  Some cliques...some minor bullying...some people crying, because they want to go home.  Some people really staying to themselves and trying to stay out of trouble.

Barracks living at your permanent duty station...ours were co-ed.  Usually all the lower-ranking people lived together and the higher-ranking people lived somewhere else.  All the married people lived off on their own, too.  We would have a handful of lower-ranking NCOs in the building (me and a few others- Lol).  It would run the gamut.  Some soldiers just played video games constantly, some drank a TON, there would always be one really religious guy, some partied a lot, there were 2 suicides in our barracks, one guy accidentally lit our barracks on fire, etc.  If I could pick one thing to complain about, it was drinking.  There was just a ton of drinking where I was stationed.  I guess there was nothing else to do.  I did see a really bad fistfight in the barracks and ironically, it was between two higher-ranking guys.  So, yes, some trouble.  

It's kinda like you're 17 and you live in a big apartment building with your 150 teenage brothers and 5 sisters...and your parents are hardly ever home.  And when you know they're on their way, everyone cleans.  That basically describes it.        

This describes barracks enlisted life perfectly. I have experienced this living in barracks with two different services.

[importswim]

I haven't read the other responses, but wanted to put a plug in for the Coast Guard if he's at all flexible on which service he joins! DH went in as an officer directly out of college and went into flight school directly out of Officer Candidate School (OCS). During flight school (Navy, Marines, and Coasties all attend Navy flight school) he got lots of comments from fellow pilots that they wish that they had known that the Coast Guard has an aviation side (or even that the Coast Guard was military! HA!) A large number of them wished that they could transfer over. The Coast Guard is the 5th military branch and has all of the exact same benefits as the other services. The mission is also pretty cool, but I'm biased. ? 

Of course, your DS may not at all be interested in aviation, but I say that to recommend that he really do his research as to which branch, but especially which specialty he'd like to do and what job he COULD do for 20 years (if he's planning on staying in until retirement). 

[G5052]

Take your time making the decision and talk to a lot of people. My oldest just came home last month from Basic/AIT and is in the Army National Guard. He wanted a state-focused mission and was given a unique opportunity to join an elite unit. I'm not giving too many details here because of that. If you go into the Guard, you have to be prepared to not necessarily get the career you want right away because there has to be an opening in your state's units. He didn't get his top choices, but in retrospect, what he chose fits him perfectly. He wants a supplement to his planned career, not a full career.

He's a commuting junior in college, and this will pay for all of his college expenses including books and a basic meal plan. He eats so much that it would tough to carry enough food, and all-you-can eat actually is a really good deal for him. LOL. 

We were very blessed to have an honest recruiter. He was very hands on and enthusiastic, but never once did my son feel pressured. They've crossed paths several times since in town and at Guard events, and he continues to be a great source of information and an encourager. He's actually going to be running the ROTC program at my son's college in the fall.

[G5052]

Also, I agree with the comments about the barracks.

Mine expected that and found his "tribe," but there will be many wild things going on. If they are caught, the entire platoon or company may be punished. Once they had to stand in the rain outside nearly all night. My son's platoon was apparently one of the worst ever at his base. Some were court martialed and sent to Leavenworth and others were kicked out or sent back to start over. When he went to his first drill, he found out that recent graduates from other bases had heard about them.

He loved it though and has said that it was one of the best experiences of his life. He's very happy to be a "citizen soldier" said that he wouldn't want to do that full-time. Interestingly, 2/3 of his class were either National Guard or Reserves. One of his favorite drill sergeants was initially in the Army National Guard and then switched over because he wasn't satisfied being part-time though. 

 

[PeterPan]

I wanted to comment on the 20 years and then a civilian career thing. That might happen for some, but the reason people retired after 20 is because military life can be quite hard on you. My dad left after 20, is on 100% disability, and has lived in assisted living for the last few years. He's, um, mid-60s. Now not everyone's path is like that, but it happens. He could have service-related injuries or disabilities that shape the rest of his life. Military service can be a significant sacrifice of his health, his time with family, on and on.

If he enlists, go to Shades of Green and hit Disney. They'll treat you like kings and queens. 

[aprilleigh]

As a veteran, I strongly recommend that you get everything in writing that the recruiter tells you. If they aren't willing to put it into writing, and it's not an Army reg you can actually look up to verify, assume it won't happen or at least it won't be as simple as they'll make it appear. They are not your friend, your buddy, or your counselor, they are doing a job, which is to recruit soldiers. Yes, they care that the people they recruit will work out, but they absolutely are not above telling you things that are not necessarily accurate to encourage what they see as a good candidate. It could be as simple as telling you that you can bring your dog once you get out of training, without telling you that's only if you qualify for family housing or off-base housing, or as misleading as telling you that if you don't sign up for a specific MOS now, you'll still have some say once the Army decides where they need you (you have no say in your assignment unless it's in your contract, and you only get a say if the Army offers you two or more choices). GET IT ALL IN WRITING IF IT'S IMPORTANT TO YOU!