Need help with teen's sleep issues

[....]

Hi, thanks in advance for any suggestions.

DD16's sleep is very messed up and we can't seem to get her on a normal sleep schedule again.  It's to the point where we had to completely cancel school for the month of July while we work on this (we school year-round).

Our neighbors have 8 young kids (like 11 and younger) and since school let out for the summer, they have been outside ALL night, every night.  Sometimes until 4am...screaming, riding bikes, playing outside, honking horns, running up to dd's window and through our yard...you get the idea.  DD16's bedroom is right in the front of our house and she hears them all night.  So, she started falling asleep every night around 4am (when the kids go inside).  If she has a doctor's appointment (which she has 1-2 x week - long story), she tends to only get 2-3 hours of sleep.  Then, she's falling asleep everywhere all day - in my bed, on the couch, etc.  She obviously doesn't feel well and even stopped doing a lot of the activities that she's always done.

We got the kids next door to quiet down, so now we are trying to get dd16 to fall asleep at a normal time now.  She can't.  She even tried Benadryl last night and still could not fall asleep.  She basically sat on the couch all night last night until she fell asleep this morning.  It's 2:30pm and she is STILL asleep.  We are afraid to wake her up and we're afraid she won't be able to fall asleep again tonight.

I'm frustrated.  The neighbors basically ruined school for us over the summer.  She's frustrated and I don't know how to get her sleeping normally again.  Any ideas?

   

[AK_Mom4]

Ok. I have one kid who (like his mom) battles insomnia.  The fast way to reset is to stay up, but it’s super hard to do by yourself.    I would recommend that YOU spend a few days getting some extra sleep and just let her go along.  Then, the two of you stay up together all night - watch movies, talk, go for a ride or a walk - play games.  Whatever it takes.  Then keep each other awake until at least 6pm the next day.  7pm is even better. 

Often the reset will last my kid 3-4 weeks before he slides back to his natural schedule (2am bed time).  But it’s not easy. 

[freesia]

I remember from my mom of little ones that dh and I had a saying--sleep begets sleep.  The more over tired you are, the harder it is to get sleep.You didn't say how long it's been since the kids quieted down, so it's hard to tell how long she's been out of whack but it's been quiet.  I think what I would do is pick 2 days in a row with no doctor's visits and let her sleep when and however she can--no waking her. Then the third day I would have her go to bed 1 hour earlier than she fell asleep and I would let her sleep as long as she needs. Then I would keep pulling her sleep back by 1 hour (actually hoping for 30 minutes of actual earlier sleep).  Those days I wouldn't allow naps.

Magnesium can help with sleep, too.  It also would help with any anxiety she is having bc of not sleeping. 

[Katy]

If/when this happens in the future, she should keep some earplugs (they sell them at the drugstore) and she should call your local police. There are noise ordinances almost everywhere, and letting kids stay up until 4am is a sign of probable child abuse and neglect.

Depending on her weight she may be able to double dose on benadryl safely. Check with her doctor to be sure. Then have her stay up later every morning.  I think it's been shown in multiple jet lag studies that it's easier for adults to stay up later than to go to bed earlier. At 16 she's probably already in that pattern.   Also, take away electronics at night and have her read instead. Also, don't have her eat overnight.  Switching her snacks and meals - especially high protein at breakfast - is one of the fastest ways to overcome jet lag.

 

 

 

[Pen]

Since she has frequent medical visits, I suggest you call her health care provider to ask what is safe for her to improve sleep. 

For example, possibly melatonin, tryptophan, or a combination herb and nutraceuticals formula like Deep Sleep, or Night Rest would work for her better and more safely than Benadryl. 

Calms, Plus Calcium could help. 

[Pen]

Also things like a warm bath(possibly with Epsom salt); warm milk to drink; soothing music; a massage — getting one can be nice, but giving one can be tiring (and T-touch with excess circles); and/or a calming book before bed might help. 

[Hilltopmom]

Not answering your sleep question- but this is a huge red flag to me.

I know you’ve gotten the kids to quiet down, but are they still running around until 4AM outside? That’s concerning & indicative of something odd going on in the home. One night for a family party or camping out, ok. Multiple nights in a row... that’s a call to CPS, IMO. But I’m a mandated reporter. Do you know the parents, what is their explanation? What are they doing all night?

[scholastica]

44 minutes ago, Hilltopmom said:

Not answering your sleep question- but this is a huge red flag to me.

I know you’ve gotten the kids to quiet down, but are they still running around until 4AM outside? That’s concerning & indicative of something odd going on in the home. One night for a family party or camping out, ok. Multiple nights in a row... that’s a call to CPS, IMO. But I’m a mandated reporter. Do you know the parents, what is their explanation? What are they doing all night?

That was my thought too. 

OP you’ve gotten great advice for helping your dd.

What the heck is going on next door? Is there a curfew in your city or town? Kids under 18 here can’t be out after midnight unless they are going to or from work. CPS or the police or both would be involved on my street. There’s no way the neighbors would put up with that. 

[....]

Thanks for the suggestions!  

Earplugs - I told her to sleep with earplugs, too.  But, she's always had some sensory issues and she refuses to even try.  :(

I thought a white noise machine...or an app on her phone...but she doesn't like white noise, she says.  *sigh*

I think I am going to get her taking some vitamins, too.  She's been a little depressed over the past few weeks (because of health issues and her doctor said she can not play sports this season) and I'm wondering if that isn't making the insomnia worse.  Plus, all of our activities/classes/sports ended and now the teens are like completely unanchored.  Even ds15 told me he wasn't sure what day it was anymore.  

About the neighbors (Lol).  It's a long story, but they're Syrian refugees and the entire neighborhood is trying to be very understanding, but the family is really having a hard time adjusting to living here.  There's 8 kids under the age of 11, but the mom is obviously overwhelmed and the dad never seems to be home.  The kids are ALL over the block tearing up people's landscaping plants, they uprooted a tree, they dented the garage door across the street, they killed a bunch of our grass in our front yard, they're riding their bikes right in front of cars in the street and people are honking at them...they were ringing our doorbell around 10-10:30 at night until dh went out there and told them to stop (he gets up for work at 4am, so that was a big problem for him).  They are swearing in English outside while they're playing like somethin' awful.  Their 3 year-old was dumping our trash can and I told him to leave it alone and he called me a wh*re.  *ahem*  Sheesh.  None of us are willing to call the police on them, but we've been trying to tell them they have to be quiet around 8-9pm and you can't be ringing people's doorbells, you can't swear like that (especially in Texas - Lol), etc.  DD13 and dd10 have become close friends with one of the girls in the house, so they have been trying to tell them what's ok and what isn't in the Kid World here in Texas.  The kids are having a couple of other issues like they've learned how to create a Youtube channel and people are posting on their channel, daring them to do things and the kids are filming it with their phone and posting it.  DD13 and dd10 told me what was going on, so I pulled all the kids aside and told them how dangerous that was/be careful talking to strangers on the internet/etc.  I don't think the parents know how to go online and they don't speak English.

Even with all the drama, like I said, our block is trying to help them.  I bought their boys a football at Target this afternoon and the girls brought it over and gave it to them (which they were happy about).

Sorry for rambling...thanks for the ideas!  This has just been a rough summer.        

[popmom]

Remember the much maligned Dr. Ferber? His book Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems? It was very interesting. You would think the book was solely about sleep training babies, but he addresses problems throughout the teen years. I still remember that section because it was so interesting. He said left to our own devices, humans will go to bed about an hour later each night and wake about an hour later each morning. So long story short--his suggestion is to go with it.  If she falls asleep at 4am and wakes at 2pm, the next night have her stay up till 5 am and sleep till 3pm. Then 6 am to 4pm. Continue until she's reached a normal sleep schedule and then stick with it. Never tried it, but it makes good sense. 

Benadryl makes me feel like I'm going to jump out of my skin. My dd's p-doc told us that when using melatonin, to take it about 2 hours before you want to fall asleep. It works well for my kids.

[....]

Just now, stephensgirls said:

Benadryl makes me feel like I'm going to jump out of my skin. 

 

Yep, I asked her this afternoon if the Benadryl helped and she said it made her feel hyper.  ?

[Tanaqui]

Oh, I see. Evanthe, is there any sort of free or low-cost summer camp that will take them during the day? Even though summer vacation has started they may have some vacancies due to no-shows. (The kids could probably benefit from free counseling as well.)

I hate to suggest that you jump in and try to solve the neighbor's problems, but... them being busy during the day would keep them in bed at night, and do a world more to help their socialization here. How long have they been in the US?

[Katy]

6 minutes ago, Evanthe said:

Thanks for the suggestions!  

Earplugs - I told her to sleep with earplugs, too.  But, she's always had some sensory issues and she refuses to even try.  ?

I thought a white noise machine...or an app on her phone...but she doesn't like white noise, she says.  *sigh*

I think I am going to get her taking some vitamins, too.  She's been a little depressed over the past few weeks (because of health issues and her doctor said she can not play sports this season) and I'm wondering if that isn't making the insomnia worse.  Plus, all of our activities/classes/sports ended and now the teens are like completely unanchored.  Even ds15 told me he wasn't sure what day it was anymore.  

About the neighbors (Lol).  It's a long story, but they're Syrian refugees and the entire neighborhood is trying to be very understanding, but the family is really having a hard time adjusting to living here.  There's 8 kids under the age of 11, but the mom is obviously overwhelmed and the dad never seems to be home.  The kids are ALL over the block tearing up people's landscaping plants, they uprooted a tree, they dented the garage door across the street, they killed a bunch of our grass in our front yard, they're riding their bikes right in front of cars in the street and people are honking at them...they were ringing our doorbell around 10-10:30 at night until dh went out there and told them to stop (he gets up for work at 4am, so that was a big problem for him).  They are swearing in English outside while they're playing like somethin' awful.  Their 3 year-old was dumping our trash can and I told him to leave it alone and he called me a wh*re.  *ahem*  Sheesh.  None of us are willing to call the police on them, but we've been trying to tell them they have to be quiet around 8-9pm and you can't be ringing people's doorbells, you can't swear like that (especially in Texas - Lol), etc.  DD13 and dd10 have become close friends with one of the girls in the house, so they have been trying to tell them what's ok and what isn't in the Kid World here in Texas.  The kids are having a couple of other issues like they've learned how to create a Youtube channel and people are posting on their channel, daring them to do things and the kids are filming it with their phone and posting it.  DD13 and dd10 told me what was going on, so I pulled all the kids aside and told them how dangerous that was/be careful talking to strangers on the internet/etc.  I don't think the parents know how to go online and they don't speak English.

Even with all the drama, like I said, our block is trying to help them.  I bought their boys a football at Target this afternoon and the girls brought it over and gave it to them (which they were happy about).

Sorry for rambling...thanks for the ideas!  This has just been a rough summer.        

 

Given that information, I would call CPS.  Not to get the kids taken away, but to get the family some support services.  They're doing unsafe things, and even with an understanding neighborhood, those kids need to understand that ruining or stealing the wrong person's property could get them killed. Swearing at a stranger while dumping out their trash on the other persons property might not be so charitably interpreted everywhere. Filming stupid stunts for YouTube has gotten more than one person killed. Someone impartial needs to explain that isn't going to fly, especially not in Texas. And with support services the family might qualify for free therapy and daycare (depending on your county).  If you're friends with a police officer, that might be a good option too.

[....]

1 minute ago, Tanaqui said:

Oh, I see. Evanthe, is there any sort of free or low-cost summer camp that will take them during the day? Even though summer vacation has started they may have some vacancies due to no-shows. (The kids could probably benefit from free counseling as well.)

I hate to suggest that you jump in and try to solve the neighbor's problems, but... them being busy during the day would keep them in bed at night, and do a world more to help their socialization here. How long have they been in the US?

 

They told me this is their second year, but they've only been in this house for a few months.  They were living in some sort of refugee camp...and then some kind of government housing (??) and the government housing was a BAD environment.  They said people threw rocks through their windows, people yelled at them to "go back to their country"...they told me some story about a deranged man entering their apartment and he wouldn't leave and it scared them.

I don't know about camps, but our school district has free preschool for ESL families and I told them about it, but they won't send the younger kids (which they NEED to, because the younger set does not speak English).  

[....]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

 

Given that information, I would call CPS.  

 

CPS was actually just there a couple of days ago.  They actually showed up at my house once, looking for the kids, because the mom had a medical emergency and was taken to the hospital.  The kids got home from school with no key to get in and came to our house.  They also have some kind of sponsor who checks on them.

I do agree they are not being taken care of educationally.  I'm almost ready to call the school myself.

[Tanaqui]

Sounds like the whole family, but especially the kids, could benefit from some trauma counseling.

I think you'll have to call child services. They don't just swoop in and take the kids away - well, not usually, not with parents who are just overwhelmed. They try to get the family the help and services they need, and by being a government presence they can probably convince the parents to send the kids to a publicly funded camp this summer (if there is such a thing), to publicly funded counseling, and yes - to preschool.

[JessReplanted]

That is bizarre about the neighbor kids!

As someone who has a hard time sleeping, ear plugs and a white noise machine are necessities. Also, I started using melatonin this year and it is a game changer (both for me and for my child who was a terrible sleeper). 

I have also found that the problems sleeping lead to anxiety about not sleeping, which keeps me from wanting to go to bed at night. So making myself go to bed at a certain time can be helpful.  

[....]

So, sorta update.  We are working really hard on this.  Two nights ago, she slept from 4am-8am, so we were losing hope that this was going to get resolved.  Last night, she actually had the first full night of sleep in a long time: she slept 9 hours.  Still working on it...  Thanks for all the suggestions!

[scholastica]

On 7/13/2018 at 9:12 PM, Evanthe said:

Thanks for the suggestions!  

Earplugs - I told her to sleep with earplugs, too.  But, she's always had some sensory issues and she refuses to even try.  ?

I thought a white noise machine...or an app on her phone...but she doesn't like white noise, she says.  *sigh*

I think I am going to get her taking some vitamins, too.  She's been a little depressed over the past few weeks (because of health issues and her doctor said she can not play sports this season) and I'm wondering if that isn't making the insomnia worse.  Plus, all of our activities/classes/sports ended and now the teens are like completely unanchored.  Even ds15 told me he wasn't sure what day it was anymore.  

About the neighbors (Lol).  It's a long story, but they're Syrian refugees and the entire neighborhood is trying to be very understanding, but the family is really having a hard time adjusting to living here.  There's 8 kids under the age of 11, but the mom is obviously overwhelmed and the dad never seems to be home.  The kids are ALL over the block tearing up people's landscaping plants, they uprooted a tree, they dented the garage door across the street, they killed a bunch of our grass in our front yard, they're riding their bikes right in front of cars in the street and people are honking at them...they were ringing our doorbell around 10-10:30 at night until dh went out there and told them to stop (he gets up for work at 4am, so that was a big problem for him).  They are swearing in English outside while they're playing like somethin' awful.  Their 3 year-old was dumping our trash can and I told him to leave it alone and he called me a wh*re.  *ahem*  Sheesh.  None of us are willing to call the police on them, but we've been trying to tell them they have to be quiet around 8-9pm and you can't be ringing people's doorbells, you can't swear like that (especially in Texas - Lol), etc.  DD13 and dd10 have become close friends with one of the girls in the house, so they have been trying to tell them what's ok and what isn't in the Kid World here in Texas.  The kids are having a couple of other issues like they've learned how to create a Youtube channel and people are posting on their channel, daring them to do things and the kids are filming it with their phone and posting it.  DD13 and dd10 told me what was going on, so I pulled all the kids aside and told them how dangerous that was/be careful talking to strangers on the internet/etc.  I don't think the parents know how to go online and they don't speak English.

Even with all the drama, like I said, our block is trying to help them.  I bought their boys a football at Target this afternoon and the girls brought it over and gave it to them (which they were happy about).

Sorry for rambling...thanks for the ideas!  This has just been a rough summer.        

Wow! What a challenging situation. My heart breaks for the family. It’s great that the neighbors are trying to help. I agree with other posters that the situation is above neighbor help and needs other involvement. You guys can be support, but they need intervention and services at a whole other level

[Amy in NH]

Try melatonin at her regular bedtime, and GABA with l-arginine in the morning before breakfast. NOW brand is good.  Run a fan to cover the noise outside.  It may take a few days for this combination to work well, but it will be worth it.

I agree with the others about cps.