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I am hoping someone might shed some light on a couple of transcript questions.  I have searched the blogs but not found anything similar - sorry if this has already been asked.  I have tried to ask my questions to some college counselors, but have been told homeschoolers can put whatever they want on transcripts and they can't advise me.  I have asked a high school counselor and was told the same thing.  I have asked other homeschool parents with the same end result.  I know I can put "whatever I want" on transcripts, but I am hoping for some guidance because I want the transcript to be somewhat consistent with other transcripts that the colleges will be receiving from private/public school students who take dual credit courses.

We live in Texas, so there are no regulations around the reporting of classes.  Also, my goal is not for DD to graduate high school with as many dual credit classes as possible.  We are anticipating around 6 dual credit classes total.  My purpose in the questions below is how to handle the recording of the classes for the high school transcript.

  1.  For dual credit classes, I read that one semester of college equals one full school year of high school credit.  For example, DD is taking HIST 1301 in the fall.  Should I count that as one full US history high school course for 2018/2019?  Even though she will take it for only one semester and it only goes thru 1877?  HIST 1302 would continue from 1877 to present.  Is that how public schools handle dual credit?  Do they take both HIST 1301/1302 in one school year and then show 2 years of high school credit?

In other words, if I want DD to have one high school year each of US History and World History, would I have her take only HIST 1301 (US thru 1877) and HIST 2321 (World history thru 1492) dual credit classes to meet those requirements?

2.  Based on her ACT score for English, DD was able to test out of ENGL 1301 at the community college.  How would I note that on her high school transcript?  Or do I just leave it off?  I thought it should go somewhere as a dual credit class, but I am not sure how to record it.

Thank you so much!

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Well, there is no set answer for your first question because different places do it different ways and sometimes they treat some classes one way and others another way. We on here have this discussion a couple tines a year. Some record it the way their state suggests/requires (when applicable), some do it like their local school district, some always use one way no matter what (like semester long classes that are three or more college credits translate to one year long high school course), and others try to equate the class with a high school equivalent (like the history example would be two semesters would be like two high school s ere nesters in content so they would only count each as a semester, but Calc would be a year credit). There is a legitimate reason you aren't getting a strait answer:  it isn't as easy as you think! Just come up with a plan, spell it out, and stick with it.

On question #2,  I don't think I can help. Did she get credit for the class on her college transcript? Or just skip to the next higher class?

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On the DE class, I personally would leave it off the high school Transcript. It will be on the college one, but since she didn't actually take the class, I (personally) wouldn't give credit.

I know at least one person who gives credit for passing CLEP exams with limited study, so you could show it, but I wouldn't.

Unless. . . Did you use that credit as her English credit for that year of high school? Because that would change my answer. 

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Credit-wise, you do whatever your local district does. You can usually google this. Mine gives the full credit for each college semester, so that's what I did for every class except precalc algebra, bc spreading precalc over a year is a choice at uni but it's more typical of high school. Had she taken the semester course that covered both sections of precalc, I would have given her the full credit.  

However, their DE credits did not affect my personal high school requirements. They had a full English course at home every year, so they wound up with 6 English credits (four at home, two college composition). I did not view comp as a substitute for English class. If you aren't sure about history or other courses, you can decide after they take it, or use the syllabus to judge if you want to plan ahead. Lower-level college history courses are generally surveys, so it wouldn't suit my purpose to have them take two of them and call it a day, but someone else might be more focused on STEM or performing arts and decide it suits them fine. 

For the class she tested out of but got credit for, I would list it with the abbreviation, with the abbreviation listed in my notes section. My notes section said stuff like: H denotes honors course; DE denotes dual enrollment at the University of XYZ. So I would just put, CE denotes credit by exam at Universit of XYZ (using the correct abbreviation, of course). They will have her college transcript as well, so you want everything to match. 

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12 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

On the DE class, I personally would leave it off the high school Transcript. It will be on the college one, but since she didn't actually take the class, I (personally) wouldn't give credit.

 

 

 

I would show it for just that reason - it's going to be on the college transcript. Life is much simpler when transcripts match and the admissions office doesn't call you with questions because they see a discrepancy. The college gave her credit, therefore she has credit. 

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The most common conversion for DE courses is one 3-4 credit semester class = 1 high school credit, although some schools/districts/states may do it differently. I looked for info specific to dual enrollment in Texas and found this:

The student can earn at least 1⁄2 credit toward a high school course for a one-semester college course. The student may earn a full credit for a one-semester college course if the district determines that the student has had an opportunity to demonstrate mastery of the Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills (TEKS) for an entire one-credit course.

I'm not familiar with TEKS, so I don't know how (or if) that might apply to courses like US and World History, which are generally a one-year course in HS and 2 semesters in college. I would ask the college as well as the local high school how they assign DE credit for those courses, without mentioning that you're a homeschooler. Obviously as a homeschooler you can do whatever you want, but it might be a good idea to at least know how local schools do it.

I would not put the ACT-based English credit on the HS transcript as if it were an actual class, since there was no coursework and no grade. I've never heard of any HS giving a student a full year of HS English credit based on an ACT score, and this credit may not even be accepted for transfer by colleges that don't themselves give credit for ACT scores. Other colleges will see the CE designation on the college transcript and know what that means, they won't be confused by the fact that a college credit based on no coursework is not listed as a course on a HS transcript.

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7 hours ago, kwhdman said:

1.  For dual credit classes, I read that one semester of college equals one full school year of high school credit.  For example, DD is taking HIST 1301 in the fall.  Should I count that as one full US history high school course for 2018/2019?  Even though she will take it for only one semester and it only goes thru 1877?  HIST 1302 would continue from 1877 to present.  Is that how public schools handle dual credit?  Do they take both HIST 1301/1302 in one school year and then show 2 years of high school credit?

In other words, if I want DD to have one high school year each of US History and World History, would I have her take only HIST 1301 (US thru 1877) and HIST 2321 (World history thru 1492) dual credit classes to meet those requirements?

2.  Based on her ACT score for English, DD was able to test out of ENGL 1301 at the community college.  How would I note that on her high school transcript?  Or do I just leave it off?  I thought it should go somewhere as a dual credit class, but I am not sure how to record it.

Q1: Because there are so many different ways to designate credits and gpa weightings on transcripts (and so much time can be taken up thrashing around through all the options--which I did ?), in the end, I applied our local school system's credit and gpa weighting standards when creating transcripts for my ds's. That ultimately made my life easier and eliminated self-doubt.

  • So for our transcripts, one dual enrollment class = 1 high school credit (a full year)

My kids still took a full load of classes each semester. I did not lighten their load based on the DE class credits. DE gave them them the opportunity to take more classes in their areas of interest. They took the same number of classes each semester but earned more credits on their transcripts. If it were me, I would be very comfortable giving a full-year's credit for one semester of DE history, and then--if my student did not not want to take another DE history class in the spring--I would have that student take some other course to fill that slot--DE or otherwise.

Q2: I would not give credit--or indicate anything at all on the transcript--for testing out of a class. I would just show credit for the English class your student did take. The 4-year college your DD decides to go to may offers credit for a freshman English class based upon SAT/ACT/AP test scores, but I have not heard of high-schoolers including the exemption from taking a DE class as a recorded class on a transcript.

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Fwiw, the reason that you are getting the responses from counselors that you can put whatever you want is bc you are most likely being seen as your own individual school and there is no common practice across all schools. Unis get applications from across different states and different countries, all having different course offerings, different ways of calculating GPAs, different grading scales, etc. They are used to dealing with transcripts that are not "somewhat consistent with other transcripts that the colleges will be receiving from private/public school students who take dual credit courses."

The approach I take is to simply provide a key on the transcript that designates where the course was taken and give the exact same course title as the college's.  I give 1 credit per 1 course (for sciences with labs where the U gave separate credit, I merged them together on the transcript and still gave 1 credit.). I don't weight GPA. I do it on a 4 pt scale. I had to finally reach a consistent decision with one of my kids who took multiple 300 level math and physics courses at a local U. How much weight do you give an honors course vs an AP course vs a physics course that was full of college jrs when he was a high school sr?  I decided there was no good answer and just explained in my school profile that grades were not weighted.

i would not give cr for the course not taken only credit received. I would also be prepared for the fact that she might have to backtrack and take that cr at her destination school if the policies are different. Giving cr for English based on an ACTscore is not a universal practice. I would start investigating schools she is considering to see what they do. If they don't give cr, I would call and ask how they will treat her situation. More info is always helpful.

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I have a job now where I process academic documents for students applying for high school program, and I agree that there is no consistent transcript style. There can be huge variations even among schools in the same state, and when different states are compared it gets even crazier. Thrown in private schools and you can imagine all the differences that exist.

in general, I have not seen high school credits given for testing out of a course. Most just take the next level and give credit for that. I have seen both ways of f giving credit for dual enrollment- 1 year credit for one semester or 1 semester credit for 1semester of dual enrollement.

 

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In our state the law is that one 3 semester unit/5 quarter unit college class equals 1 high school credit.  So that's what the public schools do.

I decided to give my son 0.5 high school credits instead, because his DE classes didn't cover anywhere near a year worth of material when compared to our homeschool classes.  Now that I have another kid in classes at a public high school (APs even), I see that very little gets done at traditional schools, so if I were to do it again, I'd give a full credit for DE courses.

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Thank you all so much.  I really appreciate the information and think I understand it more clearly.  I had thought the DE classes were in place of HS curriculum, but based on some comments I see that is not always the case.  More decisions to be made!

As for testing out of ENGL 1301, I had not intended on giving her high school credit for that class.  I just wasn't sure if I should put it on her high school transcript.  At the CC, it allows her to take ENGL 1302 without taking the ENGL 1301 prereq.  The uni she is looking at requires ENGL 1302 & ENGL 1303.

Thanks again!  Back to the drawing board for me!  : )

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16 minutes ago, kwhdman said:

I had thought the DE classes were in place of HS curriculum, but based on some comments I see that is not always the case.  More decisions to be made!

I am not sure I understand this comment.  

Fwiw, my kids do not DE for high school equivalent work.  They DE for college level work. For some subjects the delineation is not quite so distinct. What is high school US history vs college level? Typically input/out/pace differences, but whether or not they are meaningfully different may just boil down to semantics vs actual differences. For other courses, dffEQ requires cal 2 as a prerequisite, so the delineation is simple.

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It may also depend on the college's requirements.  For example, our local CC has DE students, but they may not take courses that are required for high school graduation.  So, no English courses there until high school English requirements are met, etc. 

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3 hours ago, kwhdman said:

  I had thought the DE classes were in place of HS curriculum, but based on some comments I see that is not always the case. 

DE classes do count for HS credit, so I don't understand what you mean by this — can you clarify?

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My kids have all graduated and I teach high school science at one of the local ISDs now.

No school questioned the credits that I gave on their transcripts in Texas, New York, or Canada.

Knowing what I know now after teaching at a public high school, I would have no qualms at all about offering a full credit for each semester of any academic class.

What I gave my kids was one year of credit for each semester of chemistry, physics, biology, geology, English, computer science, government, and math. Mine didn't take US history through dual credit, but I would feel perfectly comfortable offering a full year of credit. In high school they do a full year of US History, but it's actually the history from HIST 1302. They do the first half of US History in 8th grade and then finish US history in 11th grade.

All the local ISDs offer a full year of credit for each semester of art, but since my dd did NO work outside of class for that and got an A, I deemed it worth only a semester of credit for each semester. The other classes required a ton of work outside of class.

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@Correleno - I meant that I had it in my mind to "substitute" DE classes for HS classes.  For example, taking HIST 1301 in place of US History for high school, instead of taking it in addition to a HS history class.  I'm thinking that might be still be okay for some classes, especially with DD not being crazy about history and being very STEM oriented due to vet school aspirations.

I have a friend who is basically using DE courses for almost all of her son's high school classes.  She wants him to graduate with an associate's degree at the same time as his high school graduation.  That is why I was thinking the DE classes should be used in place of the HS classes instead of being used as additional classes as well.

Hope that makes sense.  If it doesn't - it's probably because I am still confused!

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I used DE classes to satisfy high school requirements, so they were taken instead of high school level classes.

That's how I sold them to my kids too. You can either take one year of "fill in the blank" at home or you can take one semester at the cc and have it count as a full year AND you won't have to take it again to satisfy distribution requirements in college.

Teaching at a title I high school has been eye opening. I have only taught on-level science classes : IPC for 9th graders (mostly those who failed math or science in 8th grade), Chemistry for 10th-11th graders, and Forensics for 11th-12th graders. The average math level coming in to my classes has ranged from basic 3rd grade level (freshmen) to 6th grade level (juniors and seniors). The average writing level has ranged from 3rd grade level (freshmen) to 8th grade level (seniors). We're doing all we can to bring up their math and writing competencies, but it's an uphill battle because we are required to put all 9th graders in algebra I even though many of them would be much better served by prealgebra.  

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1 hour ago, kwhdman said:

@Correleno - I meant that I had it in my mind to "substitute" DE classes for HS classes.  For example, taking HIST 1301 in place of US History for high school, instead of taking it in addition to a HS history class.  I'm thinking that might be still be okay for some classes, especially with DD not being crazy about history and being very STEM oriented due to vet school aspirations.

I have a friend who is basically using DE courses for almost all of her son's high school classes.  She wants him to graduate with an associate's degree at the same time as his high school graduation.  That is why I was thinking the DE classes should be used in place of the HS classes instead of being used as additional classes as well.

Hope that makes sense.  If it doesn't - it's probably because I am still confused!

You can DE and use those courses to satisfy high school course requirements while getting college credit.

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My older kids took math, science, English and a foreign language at the CC.

I counted each semester course as a full high school credit.  

This did mean that they graduated with more than 4 math and science  credits.  They still took math and science all four years if high school.

The CC classes filled the requirement for that subject for high school.  In other words if they were in general chemistry at CC they didn't also take a 2nd science at home.

I don't know how every college viewed their transcripts, but they had several selective acceptances.

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5 hours ago, Corraleno said:

DE classes do count for HS credit, so I don't understand what you mean by this — can you clarify?

I don't know what the OP meant, but I do know that some colleges won't transfer DE credit if it was used to satisfy high school graduation requirements.

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40 minutes ago, EKS said:

I don't know what the OP meant, but I do know that some colleges won't transfer DE credit if it was used to satisfy high school graduation requirements.

 

Do you have any examples of colleges that do this.  I've seen this caution before but didn't notice it as a policy at schools my kids applied to.  Is this more common in particular states?

 

Eta: For clarity let me specify that I'm asking about situations where a high school student 1) takes a College level course 2) on campus at a college in a class with college students and 3) the high school awarded high school credit for the course in an area of required credit. 

So I'm not talking about a course taught at a high school with only high school students or a course taught by a high school teacher under college supervision.

Also I'm familiar with the fact that each college decides which courses transfer and how. I'm curious about colleges that won't transfer courses specifically based on the course also meeting a high school requirement.

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52 minutes ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

 

Do you have any examples of colleges that do this.  I've seen this caution before but didn't notice it as a policy at schools my kids applied to.  Is this more common in particular states?

 

Eta: For clarity let me specify that I'm asking about situations where a high school student 1) takes a College level course 2) on campus at a college in a class with college students and 3) the high school awarded high school credit for the course in an area of required credit. 

So I'm not talking about a course taught at a high school with only high school students or a course taught by a high school teacher under college supervision.

Also I'm familiar with the fact that each college decides which courses transfer and how. I'm curious about colleges that won't transfer courses specifically based on the course also meeting a high school requirement.

 

Stanford says that one of the conditions of granting credit for transfer courses is that "The course work did not count towards secondary school diploma and/or graduation requirements."  I got the impression that DE courses that were above and beyond HS graduation requirements could be used, but I don't remember where I read that (maybe CC?).

I believe U Penn used to have the same restrictions, but now they just say they don't accept any DE courses at all. 

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6 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

 

Stanford says that one of the conditions of granting credit for transfer courses is that "The course work did not count towards secondary school diploma and/or graduation requirements."  I got the impression that DE courses that were above and beyond HS graduation requirements could be used, but I don't remember where I read that (maybe CC?).

I believe U Penn used to have the same restrictions, but now they just say they don't accept any DE courses at all. 

 

Thanks. I must have missed the Stanford policy since my kid there was planning to repeat the courses that could have transferred elsewhere (calc and foreign language).

Stanford also give credit for only a few AP scores.

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13 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

 

Stanford says that one of the conditions of granting credit for transfer courses is that "The course work did not count towards secondary school diploma and/or graduation requirements."  I got the impression that DE courses that were above and beyond HS graduation requirements could be used, but I don't remember where I read that (maybe CC?).

I believe U Penn used to have the same restrictions, but now they just say they don't accept any DE courses at all. 

 

I did find a similar policy at Harvard, along with a lot more restrictions on types of courses accepted.

https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/application-process/transferring-harvard-college/transfer-credits

So is this mostly something encountered at the most selective colleges?

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8 minutes ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

 

I did find a similar policy at Harvard, along with a lot more restrictions on types of courses accepted.

https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/application-process/transferring-harvard-college/transfer-credits

So is this mostly something encountered at the most selective colleges?

 

Personally, I have only seen it at highly selective colleges. For example here is Duke's policy, which states that "the course was not used to meet high school diploma requirements" (among many other restrictions), and students must provide written proof of this from their HS.

 

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14 hours ago, Brigid in NC said:

My kids still took a full load of classes each semester. I did not lighten their load based on the DE class credits.

 

21 hours ago, katilac said:

However, their DE credits did not affect my personal high school requirements. They had a full English course at home every year, so they wound up with 6 English credits (four at home, two college composition). I did not view comp as a substitute for English class.

I think the OP was referring to these two replies - which are probably not the norm. My DD is taking an online college English course this summer and that is taking the place of her English class for this upcoming school year. (I'd looked into the requirements at the schools she is looking at applying to and almost all of them require one or two semester of standard Freshman Comp class regardless of whether you could transfer in a DE class. They required THEIR Freshman Comp class. If you had AP credit at a certain level or higher or a high enough ACT score, you simply have to take the more difficult Comp class. So, she isn't taking the local college's Freshman Comp - she's taking a higher level English class that involves Dystopian Lit. :biggrin:)

She's taking Chemistry this fall & that's the only science class I'll require this year. How all of us use DE differs!

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I had not heard that the DE classes wouldn't count as college credit if used for HS.  I have only looked at state universities though, so maybe it is not an issue.  I will have to double check with them.

I had spoken with Texas A&M for DS who wants to be a mechanical engineer.  The counselor suggested that DS take DE classes instead of AP classes.  She said the DE classes will show that my DS is ready for college workload.  She didn't tell me those credits wouldn't transfer - in fact she she provided me a list of courses that would transfer (even if taken as DE classes).  She also said that for some classes (i.e., Calculus), it would be very unusual for them to accept AP credit because they want the students to take the college level Calculus class for the engineering school to ensure they are prepared for the rigorous math classes to follow.  I don't want to start a debate between AP and DE classes... I was just providing the information FWIW.

 

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9 hours ago, Corraleno said:

 

Stanford says that one of the conditions of granting credit for transfer courses is that "The course work did not count towards secondary school diploma and/or graduation requirements." 

 

I've seen this for some colleges (not only super selective ones) but most seem to be fine with DE classes that were used for HS requirements. Dd refuses to consider any colleges that won't give her credit for her DE classes that should transfer (for example, she expects a class like Intro to Psychology to transfer, but not Trigonometry).  

ETA:  Case Western's policy:  In addition, to be considered for transfer credit, such courses must not have been used to fulfill high school graduation requirements. 

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8 hours ago, kwhdman said:

I had not heard that the DE classes wouldn't count as college credit if used for HS.  I have only looked at state universities though, so maybe it is not an issue.  I will have to double check with them.

I had spoken with Texas A&M for DS who wants to be a mechanical engineer.  The counselor suggested that DS take DE classes instead of AP classes.  She said the DE classes will show that my DS is ready for college workload.  She didn't tell me those credits wouldn't transfer - in fact she she provided me a list of courses that would transfer (even if taken as DE classes).  She also said that for some classes (i.e., Calculus), it would be very unusual for them to accept AP credit because they want the students to take the college level Calculus class for the engineering school to ensure they are prepared for the rigorous math classes to follow.  I don't want to start a debate between AP and DE classes... I was just providing the information FWIW.

 

The golden rule of college app discussions is "it depends on the school." ?  

Fwiw, the discussion about not "double dipping," using DE credit for both high school and college graduation requirements, applies to only a small handful of schools. It is not the norm.

The more typical scenario is whether or not courses transfer in 1-to-1 for equivalent coursework or if they just get reclassified as gen ed credits with no direct benefit toward graduation credits.  One simple solution is to investigate the transfer courses that have already been approved between the CC and the universities your child is interested in. Many times, state schools and their CC systems have already established course transfer agreements. 

You can use this link to search for your CC and specific courses that have already been approved for transfer to TAMU and what courses they replace. Compare those to degree requirements. https://compass-ssb.tamu.edu/pls/PROD/bwxkwtes.P_TransEquivMain?te_type=inst

 

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13 hours ago, RootAnn said:

So, she isn't taking the local college's Freshman Comp - she's taking a higher level English class that involves Dystopian Lit. :biggrin:)

She's taking Chemistry this fall & that's the only science class I'll require this year. How all of us use DE differs!

 

 

I would have let a college lit class sub for English also. And we were super-delighted to schedule a semester of chem and call it a day senior year, lol. 

At our DE college, you could not take any history or lit or lots of other things before taking the composition course.

Oldest dd did wind up having to take composition again, poor child. 

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42 minutes ago, katilac said:

At our DE college, you could not take any history or lit or lots of other things before taking the composition course.

This particular class had no prereqs despite being a 400-level class.

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Also, UT said if you, as a "school," value, say, English 1301, a one semester community college class, as high school English 3, a year long class, they would agree. A semester of college work, in general, to them is worth a year of high school work. It seems the high school transcript is a different animal than the college transfer transcript. 

 

Callthe admissions and transfer student office of your child's top three schools to find out specifically what they like to see on the homeschool transcript. They are pretty cool people! 

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