Adjusting to new social norms when moving (subtitle: is everyone in New England really this rude?) UPDATE AT PAGE 7 or SO

[JessReplanted]

23 hours ago, whitehawk said:

That's true here as well. But, see, the New Englanders *would* be faking it, in most cases. They were raised to keep their eyes off other people's stuff and/or not make comments. It's more polite there to move the line along as fast as possible. Maybe the customer is embarrassed to be buying some of the things in that cart. It's entirely possible that the clerk, or the next customer who could hear the conversation, cannot afford to buy something that's going by. So if you have an interest in a product, you'd make a mental note to look for it yourself sometime, but not comment out loud.

It's interesting to me to be a parent in NC after having been a child in CT: every time I've corrected my super-curious child about not interrupting people doing something important (like using sharp tools), they've been like, "Oh, no, he's fine." And he is, here. He's just taking an interest. If you do that in New England (aside from places like Mystic Seaport or Old Sturbridge Village that are designed for it), you're being rude. You ask your parents the question when you get out of earshot.

This is so true!

[JessReplanted]

20 hours ago, moonflower said:

I've been campaigning to move to the NE for years - finally this spring DH said, why not Maine?  Yay! I said.  Finally! I said.

Ironically, he likes the directness and lack of (what I perceive as) friendliness.  He's never been one for social niceties.  I said to him about a week ago, wanna know a secret? 

What? he said.

I don't like Maine, I said.

Who knew?

I do really like the food, and the nature (the water especially), and the weather (so far!), and the ocean.  I like that there's a small natural foods store in every small town.  In Missouri you could be in a city/suburb of 50,000 people and have no natural foods store; here there's one in every town with 5k people.  They also seem to be (strangely, considering their social interactions) fairly community oriented, at least in the summer - lots of festivals and bean suppers and book sales.  Great old houses (I LOVE old houses) and architecture and I like that old ladies here, even most middle aged ladies, don't dye their gray hair.  People walk around outside a lot.  Thrift stores abound.

We had a very hard time moving from PA to TX. It took 4 years for us to like it. By year 5 we all LOVED it. It has now been 6 years and we are all so sad to be moving.  

Hopefully you will like it more over time. 

[moonflower]

I don't see New Englanders as lacking in social skills or worth; I don't see them all as villains, certainly!  I don't even think they suck.  "everyone" in the title is obviously a generalization/mode of speech - I haven't met everyone in New England.  

I do think that, on average, or maybe you could say in general, they are less inclined to certain social interactions than people are in other places I've lived - or at least, their mode of social interaction has been different. I wasn't sure whether they were acting this way (and I mentioned this in the OP) because I am doing something to piss them off, or because they are just generally pissed off, or if the way they interact is not rude from their perspective at all and I'm only interpreting it as such because in other communities where I've lived, that kind of social interaction would be considered rude.

Now, it is true that I may not be able to adjust, even with time, to going through the day with fewer social niceties than I've been accustomed to in other places, and I'll always feel like people here are standoffish or unkind (because what I'm socialized to is an internal reaction that says these behaviors are standoffish or unkind).  On the other hand, after a while I might get used to a new mode of interaction.

I think the thread has been helpful in that I was probably pissing people off to a degree by being what they would maybe perceive as overly chatty or fake-nice - which is probably as irritating to them as the blank stares are to me.  As I tone that down (which will take time as it's a pretty ingrained behavior) I suspect I'll get less negative reaction.

 

[poppy]

3 hours ago, Bluegoat said:

 

I understand not wanting to chitchat, I'm pretty introverted.  I don't understand seeing it as an imposition and rude if someone talks to me in a line.  A society has people, and if you go out, sometimes they talk to you.  I don't really see a connection between some people, at some times, not wanting to talk and it being rude to talk to people.

 

In this grocery line encounter, is one or both people being rude?

-These bananas are just 14 cents each today, great deal huh?
-Yes. I got some too.   Quick smile and then break eye contact, and goes back to texting.

I would say both people are just fine.  It's not rude to make small talk. It's not rude to politely signal that you dont' want to talk, either.
I think a New Englander would say that an offer to chit chat is no problem.  Requiring any person you run into to comply is imposing, though.

Exceptions:  Elderly folks, and people who are clearly "special needs" in some way at any age.  I live in MA where people are abrupt. Much moreso than I where I grew up.  But people are universally very patient and friendly with my daughter, whose speech patterns  and social interactions are "off" (think stereotypical autistic).

 

 

 

[moonflower]

I don't think either person would be considered rude in that scenario in any place I've lived, Poppy.  Where I've lived in the Midwest and Colorado, this scenario would be rude:

-These bananas are just 14 cents each today, great deal huh?
-No response.   Quick blank look and then break eye contact, and goes back to texting.

I am not certain that that response is rude here in New England. (ack, can't get rid of Italics!)

 

[SereneHome]

7 hours ago, katilac said:

 

I remember reading an article in the business section a few years ago about Americans working abroad. Apparently, the Nordic countries were baffled and annoyed that the Americans would greet people over and over again throughout the day. The Americans weren't used to passing someone in the hallway without saying something, but the natives were like, you said hello this morning! Enough already! 

 

I wasn't born in US.  When my husband and I started dating, he would go visit his parents in a different state.  They thought I was very rude and had very poor phone manners bc if I called him a couple of times a day I didn't do "hello, how are you?  What's going on" every single time.  I asked the first time and then I would just call and ask for him.  I found the whole thing completely bizarre.  Like how many times a day do I need to ask you "how are you??"

[katilac]

 

3 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

 

I wasn't born in US.  When my husband and I started dating, he would go visit his parents in a different state.  They thought I was very rude and had very poor phone manners bc if I called him a couple of times a day I didn't do "hello, how are you?  What's going on" every single time.  I asked the first time and then I would just call and ask for him.  I found the whole thing completely bizarre.  Like how many times a day do I need to ask you "how are you??"

 

You need to make sure there haven't been any dire changes in between lunch and supper ?

[Farrar]

Okay, having skimmed this thread...

I'm from the south. Dh is from New England. We both met in college there. I find New Englanders to be incredibly cold. It took the in-laws YEARS to say more than two words to me. They're lovely people and very nice now, but I still find them weird in some ways. Dh does too at this point. He feels that it's not a friendly area, and this is as a native.

Gunning it to turn left on green gets people killed. Driving in Massachusetts in general isn't anything I care to repeat. IME, every area has some behaviors that are specifically common jerk moves that drivers pull. In DC, they like to swerve around you in intersections - as in, one lane, they want to pass, so when you get to an intersection, they gun it and pass you on the right, using the extra space of the intersection without warning. Blech. In Massachusetts, you purposefully block the box and cut people off in a variety of ways, including with that turn move.

I am fine here in my mid-Atlantic bubble, but I feel I could live a lot of places in this world and be happy. The PNW, the southwest, back to many parts of the south... I'd probably be okay in the midwest even. Or, heck, lots of places I've been abroad seem lovely to live in. I'd move to Costa Rica or Mexico or Namibia... but no way would I ever live in New England again. Oh, or China. Nope nope.

 

[moonflower]

Well, that's reassuring Farrar! I am not sure whether to laugh or cry.

[MEmama]

7 hours ago, moonflower said:

Well, that's reassuring Farrar! I am not sure whether to laugh or cry.

Well we can all share individual stories that make us not like somewhere: my southern BIL, for example, never even once looked my direction nevermind spoke to me in all the years we knew each other, but that doesn't mean all southerners are rude. HE was. I was once refused service in Colorado because of my California Drivers License, when DH was fine with his from Ohio. Rude, much? We enjoyed living there despite the constant disparaging of my home state. I won't get into the anti American sentiment we had endure in the country to our north. Do all Canadians hate Americans, then? Of course not, and to insinuate such would be ridiculous and willfully ignorant. And Mass drivers and driving norms don't apply in Maine--surely you know that. This is a state with practically no traffic anyway--certainly none to speak of where you live. 

I find it telling that the posts you primarily respond to are the negative ones, instead of to the people who live here, love it and are trying to help (aka being nice!). In the future , adding JAWM (just agree with me) to your title will mostly ensure you only hear what you want.

I suspect you've made up your mind and will close yourself off to the places and things that make this state great. Good luck getting through your year. It would probably take a LOT longer than that to feel at home here anyway (again something I've noticed in every place I've ever lived, not unique though particularly true here). I do hope you manage to find a few things to enjoy this summer. 

Eta: I think the thing about this thread that is getting under my skin is that when I lived in a place that made me feel as much a fish out of water as you do, I would have given anything to have someone--anyone--who could give me advice on how to navigate. In fact, I was so lonely and depressed I did come here (or maybe it was anoth HS board) and literally BEGGED to find someone localish, but there wasn't anyone at that time. I do get how you feel, I just get a very strong sense you are digging in your heels to remain unhappy. That's okay, of course, but I do find it baffling. Anyway, I'm bowing out because clearly you don't actually want advice. I do truly wish you the best. Moving is hard and stressful and full of rewards. 

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, MEmama said:

 

Eta: I think the thing about this thread that is getting under my skin is that when I lived in a place that made me feel as much a fish out of water as you do, I would have given anything to have someone--anyone--who could give me advice on how to navigate. In fact, I was so lonely and depressed I did come here (or maybe it was anoth HS board) and literally BEGGED to find someone localish, but there wasn't anyone at that time. I do get how you feel, I just get a very strong sense you are digging in your heels to remain unhappy. That's okay, of course, but I do find it baffling. Anyway, I'm bowing out because clearly you don't actually want advice. I do truly wish you the best. Moving is hard and stressful and full of rewards. 

Did you miss her posts where she said she felt SHE was doing something wrong, and that she was grateful to know that if she stops doing things that others probably think of as rude/fake/etc (waving at strangers, etc) that she'll probably fit in better? She very specifically said that she thinks that knowing this, from people telling her in this thread, will help her feel more comfortable in her interactions. 

[ktgrok]

Saw this this morning and thought of this thread, lol! (also, I do kind of want this...I never honk because it does seem so rude!)

 

[SereneHome]

I will be very frank and say it - I LOVE NH, I can't stand MA, I don't have any strong feelings about ME (except that it has some beautiful nature) and people in VT were not very nice the few times I went there.

That being said, I think people are people everywhere and anywhere.  I've lived on different continents, 4 different countries and 3 different states.  I don't think being chatty means they are being nice.  I don't think being non-chatty means they are being  rude.  I also think it depends who is involved in a situation.  People mostly don't chit chat with me no matter what state I am in.  People LOOOVE talking to my husband no matter where we are.

As much as I love the psychology of human behaviour in general and love to observe people in various situations,  I very much resigned myself that I will never know or understand why someone behaves the way they do.  So.....I just go about life without trying to figure out every encounter and situation.

[poppy]

12 hours ago, moonflower said:

I don't think either person would be considered rude in that scenario in any place I've lived, Poppy.  Where I've lived in the Midwest and Colorado, this scenario would be rude:

-These bananas are just 14 cents each today, great deal huh?
-No response.   Quick blank look and then break eye contact, and goes back to texting.

I am not certain that that response is rude here in New England. (ack, can't get rid of Italics!)

 

 

I do think  it is impolite to completely ignore a person right next to you.   But, people can use non verbal cues to say "no thanks " to  an extended offer of a conversation. Any brief acknowledgement.   Eyebrows up, quick smile.   

I also the 14 cent person has some obligation to attempt to "read the room".   The social obligation goes both way.  It is impolite to impose when you can reasonably expect it will be met with tension instead of welcomed.

[Barb_]

2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Saw this this morning and thought of this thread, lol! (also, I do kind of want this...I never honk because it does seem so rude!)

 

 

I’ve often wished horns came with two buttons. One could be an attention getting little, “toot-toot” like, “excuse me, have you noticed the light has changed?” or, “Hey! I haven’t seen you in ages!” The other one would remain a “BLARRRRR” for when someone tries to run you over. 

[Bluegoat]

14 hours ago, poppy said:

 

In this grocery line encounter, is one or both people being rude?

-These bananas are just 14 cents each today, great deal huh?
-Yes. I got some too.   Quick smile and then break eye contact, and goes back to texting.

I would say both people are just fine.  It's not rude to make small talk. It's not rude to politely signal that you dont' want to talk, either.
I think a New Englander would say that an offer to chit chat is no problem.  Requiring any person you run into to comply is imposing, though.

Exceptions:  Elderly folks, and people who are clearly "special needs" in some way at any age.  I live in MA where people are abrupt. Much moreso than I where I grew up.  But people are universally very patient and friendly with my daughter, whose speech patterns  and social interactions are "off" (think stereotypical autistic).

 

 

 

 

I don't think it's rude to not talk, and generally it's quite possible to politely just keep the interaction short.  I do think breaking off to do phone stuff is something that people need to be careful about - it can easily seem more rude than simply not continuing the conversation.  There are also ways in some situations you can signal you aren't interested in chatting, like taking a book to a place where you are waiting.

What I think is odd is to think that somehow people owe it to you not to talk to you in public.

[moonflower]

New question: If I am in a store and I inadvertently meet someone's eye and realize they are looking at me (in a prolonged sort of way), am I supposed to smile at them, look blankly back at them, or look away?  My natural reaction is one of those "I acknowledge your existence and greet you in peaceful terms" smiles.  Needless to say I did not get a smile in return.  Am I supposed to keep staring until they stop - is it like some sort of staring contest everywhere you go?  Or I am supposed to look away right away and pretend they're not there?  Or am I supposed to say something, and the smile wasn't enough of a greeting and that's why the return glare happens?

[Katy]

On 7/7/2018 at 4:32 PM, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

 

My relatives in rural Maine are direct descendants of Norwegian immigrants. In parts of Maine you can see the Norway Bank and Norway Road.  My uncle (father's brother) had DNA testing done, and while it has to be taken with a grain of salt, he tests 50% Scandinavian. The paternal sir name is Norwegian. The ancestral records at Ancestry.com indicate immigration from Norway by way of Scotland during the very late 1600s. I'm guessing part of their characteristic restraint comes from countries of origins where restraint is typical, like Nordic countries that fed a significant percentage of the population there for quite a while. Sure they've mixed with descendants from the British Isles (the other half of his DNA testing is a combination of that) and their distant Nordic cousins see the differences, but the restraint still there and noticeable to people from different cultural norms. Sometimes when my favorite cousin, who still lives there, feels frustrated with fussy drama from other people, I joke with her that we're descended from shield maidens who have low tolerance nonsense-it's in our DNA.

 

I think the heritage of earlier generations isn't considered enough as a reason for a region's culture. I noticed when I lived in the Midwest that the area's German history has a definite German bent to the culture- it's a hardworking, just get it done culture. And much of the South is primarily Scotch-Irish, entire books have been written on how that has permanently influenced Southern culture.

 

3 hours ago, moonflower said:

New question: If I am in a store and I inadvertently meet someone's eye and realize they are looking at me (in a prolonged sort of way), am I supposed to smile at them, look blankly back at them, or look away?  My natural reaction is one of those "I acknowledge your existence and greet you in peaceful terms" smiles.  Needless to say I did not get a smile in return.  Am I supposed to keep staring until they stop - is it like some sort of staring contest everywhere you go?  Or I am supposed to look away right away and pretend they're not there?  Or am I supposed to say something, and the smile wasn't enough of a greeting and that's why the return glare happens?

 

Staring contests are rude everywhere.  Smile slightly and then look away.

[shawthorne44]

On 7/6/2018 at 10:01 AM, HomeAgain said:

Bluntness is a feature here. ? ...

 

Programmers have a saying, "There are no bugs.   There may be some undesirable features."   
I think Bluntness in that context is using the same definition of Feature.   

[moonflower]

Just wanted to update with my social experiences today (we are spending the next month at least in southern Vermont instead of central and downeast Maine, if that makes a difference). So far, went to the post office - the postal lady there was both very helpful and very friendly (and a genuine friendliness, although at this point I'd take the fake variety too, hah).  The postmaster had been less helpful a couple of days before but there was a lady today (a late-middle-age lady with beautiful white hair, I will add, which is something I really appreciate here as I don't dye my becoming-gray hair either, nor do I plan to do so in the future, and it is nice to fit in here in that way where in the Midwest I was definitely the exception).  

Then I went to the co-op in the next town over and the checkout lady was one I've seen before a couple of times, about my age or maybe 5 years younger, and she was kind.  Sustained a minor injury in the parking lot as I was trying to maneuver around 2 fire trucks (and freaking out a bit because I'd left my 13 year old in the car with my toddler and had forgotten to read up on VT laws for leaving a teenager in the car with a younger child - fine in Maine and Colorado but was not sure about VT).  Anyway, after running the cart into my leg and limping a bit two other people glared at me (for running my cart into my own leg?  not sure).  Perhaps they were just staring, hard to say.

Anyway, got fabric at Wal-Mart without incident, did self-checkout.  

Went to regular grocery on the way home and the cashier, a teenager or early 20-something, was very friendly.  (Oh, you're from Colorado! (after checking my ID).  Wow, and all the way out here. It's been so hot here, is it that hot in Colorado?  Where in Colorado? Oh look my mom just came in, hi mom!  You can tell we're related, huh? [yes, you can - they both had bright red hair and very similar features/build]).  

anyway, I've been trying a new thing where I don't say much to people if I can help it.  Has cut down on negative social interactions.  Chatty people still chat, and non-chatty people just ignore me entirely (to the point of not talking at all through a transaction or interaction, which is completely fine) instead of being short and annoyed.

[gaillardia]

moonflower, good timing on this subject. I've wanted to go to Maine for a very long time and have never been. When we moved here (TX) a guy that I wasn't friends with yet told me that I had come here with my east coast attitude. I didn't know what he meant for a few years until I started acting more Texan. I used to be blunt, abrupt, and wanted every conversation that took place in public in stores, etc. to be as to the point as possible.

I didn't want to know about your puppy, your aunt, your truck, the weather, the price of food at the other market, etc. etc. Now? I act like a Texan. I say y'all. My voice twangs when I don't mean for it too. Most people here are nice enough and will tell me things I didn't need to know. I used to want people to be direct, now I don't care. This place was a definite culture shock. I can only imagine what a shock it would be to move to Maine from here.

Thanks for a good thread. Just about breaks my heart to hear about the bad attitudes.

[JessReplanted]

15 hours ago, moonflower said:

Just wanted to update with my social experiences today (we are spending the next month at least in southern Vermont instead of central and downeast Maine, if that makes a difference). So far, went to the post office - the postal lady there was both very helpful and very friendly (and a genuine friendliness, although at this point I'd take the fake variety too, hah).  The postmaster had been less helpful a couple of days before but there was a lady today (a late-middle-age lady with beautiful white hair, I will add, which is something I really appreciate here as I don't dye my becoming-gray hair either, nor do I plan to do so in the future, and it is nice to fit in here in that way where in the Midwest I was definitely the exception).  

Then I went to the co-op in the next town over and the checkout lady was one I've seen before a couple of times, about my age or maybe 5 years younger, and she was kind.  Sustained a minor injury in the parking lot as I was trying to maneuver around 2 fire trucks (and freaking out a bit because I'd left my 13 year old in the car with my toddler and had forgotten to read up on VT laws for leaving a teenager in the car with a younger child - fine in Maine and Colorado but was not sure about VT).  Anyway, after running the cart into my leg and limping a bit two other people glared at me (for running my cart into my own leg?  not sure).  Perhaps they were just staring, hard to say.

Anyway, got fabric at Wal-Mart without incident, did self-checkout.  

Went to regular grocery on the way home and the cashier, a teenager or early 20-something, was very friendly.  (Oh, you're from Colorado! (after checking my ID).  Wow, and all the way out here. It's been so hot here, is it that hot in Colorado?  Where in Colorado? Oh look my mom just came in, hi mom!  You can tell we're related, huh? [yes, you can - they both had bright red hair and very similar features/build]).  

anyway, I've been trying a new thing where I don't say much to people if I can help it.  Has cut down on negative social interactions.  Chatty people still chat, and non-chatty people just ignore me entirely (to the point of not talking at all through a transaction or interaction, which is completely fine) instead of being short and annoyed.

I’m sorry you hurt your leg!  My guess is that those people were watching to see how hurt you were, just without much expression on their faces. 

I was just thinking of this thread. I am at the hospital (TX) and the lady at registration greeted me with “Hello, how are you doing?” And I knew I had to finish the greetings before getting to business. In NE,  “How are you doing?” Is synonymous with “How can I help you?”

[ktgrok]

I think  I realized why I like it when  people do those little social niceties...it reminds me that no matter what is going on in my life, the world is still working like it should. Hearing them and replying feels like going home, or slipping into a well worn robe. It just is a ritual, and rituals can bring comfort. So yeah, hearing and saying ma'am/sir, please, thank you, having little interactions, it's soothing to me. And I bet, f you are used to something different, it would be exactly the opposite, because it isn't YOUR ritual. 

[Bluegoat]

On 7/8/2018 at 6:00 PM, moonflower said:

New question: If I am in a store and I inadvertently meet someone's eye and realize they are looking at me (in a prolonged sort of way), am I supposed to smile at them, look blankly back at them, or look away?  My natural reaction is one of those "I acknowledge your existence and greet you in peaceful terms" smiles.  Needless to say I did not get a smile in return.  Am I supposed to keep staring until they stop - is it like some sort of staring contest everywhere you go?  Or I am supposed to look away right away and pretend they're not there?  Or am I supposed to say something, and the smile wasn't enough of a greeting and that's why the return glare happens?

 

As a person from a similar place, I'd say smile but don't worry about it if they don't.

I think maybe - we aren't super smiley people.  

[Bluegoat]

On 7/8/2018 at 9:47 PM, Katy said:

 

I think the heritage of earlier generations isn't considered enough as a reason for a region's culture. I noticed when I lived in the Midwest that the area's German history has a definite German bent to the culture- it's a hardworking, just get it done culture. And much of the South is primarily Scotch-Irish, entire books have been written on how that has permanently influenced Southern culture.

 

 

 

Totally - there is a part of my province with a lot of Germans, ho aren't common as settlement groups in other areas.  They mostly came as farmers  Anyway, the farms there are so neat, they look like someone comes out and grooms them every day.  Very different from working farms in other areas, which isn't to say the other farms are messy.  They just seem so very German in every way, even though it's been many generations.

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Bluegoat said:

 

Totally - there is a part of my province with a lot of Germans, ho aren't common as settlement groups in other areas.  They mostly came as farmers  Anyway, the farms there are so neat, they look like someone comes out and grooms them every day.  Very different from working farms in other areas, which isn't to say the other farms are messy.  They just seem so very German in every way, even though it's been many generations.

LOL, you can always tell the Germans!

[moonflower]

I love updates on threads (especially ones I read several years after the fact as a google search) so I just thought I'd update this thread.

 

We signed a lease on a house in the Midwest.  We loved many things about New England - the food is phenomenal, the environment is largely clean and very beautiful, the weather is decent (in summer!).  But we didn't fit there.  I underestimated how important it is to fit in where you live, even for introverts, or maybe especially for introverts.

Anyway, we moved back to the midwest after a summer of looking around for a place in New England and we're quite happy overall.  The water is not as clean. The food is not as good.  But we got a nice place for the money and I don't feel quite as out of place as I did.

Hilariously, though, I find myself accidentally omitting social niceties that our (now fairly rural and almost-South midwestern town) expects, so I think they think *I* am a rude Yankee!  

 

sigh, can't win

[moonflower]

Oh, and I have to say for the record that we spent a month in between the NE and the midwest in South central Colorado.  Drivers there are largely Texans and they are soooo polite.  They move right over when you want to pass them and when they want to pass you they keep a distance that says to me "I'd like to pass but I'm not being rude about it" and then you move over for them and it is just good all around.

But one day I was driving down the highway and a guy wasn't moving over when I wanted to pass.  no big deal, I just passed him normally (instead of his moving to the shoulder to be passed I passed in the opposite lane, like it works in most of the US in my experience).  Unlike the rest of southern Colorado/Texas drivers, he then tailed me (like 10 feet behind, obnoxious and dangerous) for the next 5 miles.   Guess what license plate his car had?

NY.

That is all I have to say about drivers in the northeast.  although in NYC they seemed competent if a bit zoomy, upstate NY was as depressing as the rest of the NE re: driving.

[moonflower]

Oh, and also, being back in the midwest, the first thing I noticed was how dyed everyone's hair is.  Like, everyone.  All women dye their hair.

I do miss that about New England.  I have some gray (I am 34 but an early grayer) and I liked feeling like it was okay to go gray as I got older, and that getting older and showing signs of it as a woman was okay too.  I do feel frumpier in suburban midwest.

[maize]

9 minutes ago, moonflower said:

Oh, and I have to say for the record that we spent a month in between the NE and the midwest in South central Colorado.  Drivers there are largely Texans and they are soooo polite.  They move right over when you want to pass them and when they want to pass you they keep a distance that says to me "I'd like to pass but I'm not being rude about it" and then you move over for them and it is just good all around.

But one day I was driving down the highway and a guy wasn't moving over when I wanted to pass.  no big deal, I just passed him normally (instead of his moving to the shoulder to be passed I passed in the opposite lane, like it works in most of the US in my experience).  Unlike the rest of southern Colorado/Texas drivers, he then tailed me (like 10 feet behind, obnoxious and dangerous) for the next 5 miles.   Guess what license plate his car had?

NY.

That is all I have to say about drivers in the northeast.  although in NYC they seemed competent if a bit zoomy, upstate NY was as depressing as the rest of the NE re: driving.

I loved driving in Texas! Signal that you want to switch lanes and they slow down to make space for you.

We moved from there to Los Angeles--what a shock! Signal that you want to change lanes and everybody hurries to close any potential gap. I learned to drive more aggressively and not signal till I was already moving in but I never did like driving there.

[moonflower]

Aggressive driving is really not my speed.  I was raised in Texas (until I was 10) and while I think the elaborateness and formality of social interactions would probably make me crazy if I moved back, I did really like the way Texans (who seem to be 90% of the tourists in southern Colorado) drive.  

 

People drive fine in the rural Midwest, at least where we are.  They are slowish but they stay right except to pass, and most importantly, if you do pass them (or if they want to pass you) there is no tailing or honking or flashing of lights or whatever. 

I did see a lot of great wildlife in the northeast.  I saw:

a bear (at a ski resort pilfering the trash)

a weasal

a peregrine falcon (looked it up when I got home)

a porcupine

a blue heron

[moonflower]

And re: the bear, when we went by the dumpster that serves the ski resort, a lady and her son were there cleaning the trash the bear had gotten into and strewn everywhere.  The ski resort management people didn't have enough bear deterrents, I guess.  Anyway, we helped them clean it up (it was largely our trash - not a lot of people staying there in summer!) and they were pretty nice people.  They said if they cleaned up after the bears people were less likely to want to shoot them.  but they also said the bears were everywhere, not just that set of condos - they said some condos had permanent lines of trash going from the dumpsters off into the woods.

"well, but when ski season comes and they're renting the rooms for $$$$/night they get the trash cleaned up, right?

No, she said.  Everyone just sort of ignores the trail of garbage leading off into the woods while they pay $500/night to stay in the condo and ski.

Very weird, tbh.  but seeing the bear was cool.  Much bigger and more serious looking than I'd anticipated.

[Scarlett]

Thank you for the great update.  I wondered how you ended up back in the Midwest.

[Shoeless]

I don't mind the mindless chit-chat in line most of the time.  The times I mind are when I am in a hurry and the mindless chit-chatter isn't taking the hint that no, I do not want to talk about why they chose their blue earrings vs their white earrings today.  I need to GO, Mildred. 

I'm also not keen on cashiers commenting on the items I am buying.  This happens a LOT at my local grocery store.  "Oh, is this good?" they say, as they scrutinize the granola bars I'm buying.  The smart mouth in me wants to say "No, they're garbage. Everyone in my house hates them".   

 

 

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

I don't mind the mindless chit-chat in line most of the time.  The times I mind are when I am in a hurry and the mindless chit-chatter isn't taking the hint that no, I do not want to talk about why they chose their blue earrings vs their white earrings today.  I need to GO, Mildred. 

I'm also not keen on cashiers commenting on the items I am buying.  This happens a LOT at my local grocery store.  "Oh, is this good?" they say, as they scrutinize the granola bars I'm buying.  The smart mouth in me wants to say "No, they're garbage. Everyone in my house hates them".   

 

 

Ds went through a stage where he commented on the content of other shopper's basket. It was very embarrassing....Of course he was only 5....LOL

[MeaganS]

9 hours ago, moonflower said:

I love updates on threads (especially ones I read several years after the fact as a google search) so I just thought I'd update this thread.

 

We signed a lease on a house in the Midwest.  We loved many things about New England - the food is phenomenal, the environment is largely clean and very beautiful, the weather is decent (in summer!).  But we didn't fit there.  I underestimated how important it is to fit in where you live, even for introverts, or maybe especially for introverts.

Anyway, we moved back to the midwest after a summer of looking around for a place in New England and we're quite happy overall.  The water is not as clean. The food is not as good.  But we got a nice place for the money and I don't feel quite as out of place as I did.

Hilariously, though, I find myself accidentally omitting social niceties that our (now fairly rural and almost-South midwestern town) expects, so I think they think *I* am a rude Yankee!  

 

sigh, can't win

 

We're doing this too. We've been in Minnesota for a little over a year and dh has a new job set up for next summer, in Arkansas. I just couldn't hack it. I have lived in 10 different states and thought I was fairly adaptable, but I feel like a fish out of water here. We're just on a different wave-length or something. I say something and they just look at me and smile like they're confused. I don't get them and they don't get me. 

Plus, I can't take the dark and cold for 8 months out of the year. I handled the cold fine, it's the longevity of it! Northwest Arkansas is much more my jam. I will miss the summer here though, it is gorgeous. 

Edited September 14, 2018 by MeaganS

[Lady Florida.]

Thanks for the update. I sometimes think of this thread now when I'm say, at the grocery store chatting with the cashier and bagger and the person behind me joins in the conversation, or  when I'm in any number of situations where small talk with strangers is the norm (or casual strangers that you see often).

[barnwife]

9 hours ago, moonflower said:

Oh, and also, being back in the midwest, the first thing I noticed was how dyed everyone's hair is.  Like, everyone.  All women dye their hair.

I do miss that about New England.  I have some gray (I am 34 but an early grayer) and I liked feeling like it was okay to go gray as I got older, and that getting older and showing signs of it as a woman was okay too.  I do feel frumpier in suburban midwest.

Welcome back to the midwest! I am also quite gray and in my 30s, if that makes you feel better. And in the pretty crunchy (I don't like that term) area I live in, I don't think it stands out at all.
 

[Garga]

On 7/7/2018 at 5:32 PM, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

 

, I joke with her that we're descended from shield maidens who have low tolerance nonsense-it's in our DNA.

I love this.  ?

On 7/7/2018 at 5:45 PM, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Not everyone enjoys mindlessness.  To them it's a mental and emotional drain and quite irritating. For some people, as stated upthread a couple of times, being out of their house is an opportunity to be alone with their thoughts. It's like music that's too loud in restaurants, in parking lots, and in stores.  Some of us don't want to be distracted from our thoughts.

——

Here people crab about the rain and it's the dry season according to the locals. In spring, when we looked at houses, they apologized for it. (!?!?!) They're surprised when I respond that I love it because I'm from PHX where we've had low rain for 30 years, drought conditions for 18, water supply levels are at 40%, and that last year the city I lived in got less than 1 inch of rain.  They seem surprised that weather can be a serious topic and don't seem to know how to respond.  Apparently they don't really want to talk about the weather.  It happened again today at lunch with the waitress.

Mindless talking isn’t mindless to me.  I agree that it’s emotionally draining.  I’m on call all day long with the kids.  When I’m in the store, I want to think my own thoughts without someone else imposing on them.  I live in an area where I can mostly do that and the cashiers usually keep to the business at hand and the other customers mostly ignore each other.

Weather—my dh teaches meteorology at a college.  No one ever wants to talk about the weather the way he does.  ? Though his friends will indulge him from time to time and let him ramble on about it for a while.

On 7/7/2018 at 6:02 PM, moonflower said:

 

Unless the people saying that were trying to say that it wastes their internal monologue/thinking time, which I agree that it does - but I thought the objection was the wasting of actual time, like time you would spend going somewhere or doing something.

I think it wastes literal time.  It seems that the cashier slows down a bit because her attention is divided between ringing up the items and talking.  

On 7/10/2018 at 2:00 PM, Ktgrok said:

I think  I realized why I like it when  people do those little social niceties...it reminds me that no matter what is going on in my life, the world is still working like it should. Hearing them and replying feels like going home, or slipping into a well worn robe. It just is a ritual, and rituals can bring comfort. So yeah, hearing and saying ma'am/sir, please, thank you, having little interactions, it's soothing to me. And I bet, f you are used to something different, it would be exactly the opposite, because it isn't YOUR ritual. 

 

That’s probably exactly it.  It feels foreign and different and you’re not sure what to do about it—for either way.  If you’re used to quiet time at the store, suddenly being expected to come up with conversation is disorienting.  And if you’re used to the comfort of human contact at the store and it’s yanked away from you, that is also disorienting.

 

 

OP:  sounds like you guys made a really good decision for your family.  I’m so glad it worked out and I love it that you updated this thread with the news.  (I WISH SO MUCH that the posts were numbered.  URGH.  I miss that feature badly.)

[Lucy the Valiant]

Be gentle with New England tonight, all . . . state of emergency (MA) and a lot of people hurting. 

OP, I'm glad you're in a place where you fit. ❤️ Come back and see us in the summer some time! 

 

 

[kitten18]

13 hours ago, moonflower said:

I love updates on threads (especially ones I read several years after the fact as a google search) so I just thought I'd update this thread.

 

We signed a lease on a house in the Midwest.  We loved many things about New England - the food is phenomenal, the environment is largely clean and very beautiful, the weather is decent (in summer!).  But we didn't fit there.  I underestimated how important it is to fit in where you live, even for introverts, or maybe especially for introverts.

Anyway, we moved back to the midwest after a summer of looking around for a place in New England and we're quite happy overall.  The water is not as clean. The food is not as good.  But we got a nice place for the money and I don't feel quite as out of place as I did.

Hilariously, though, I find myself accidentally omitting social niceties that our (now fairly rural and almost-South midwestern town) expects, so I think they think *I* am a rude Yankee!  

 

sigh, can't win

I just found this thread today and read through it from the beginning. I was happy to see your update. I’ve lived in a few states in the Midwest and in California. I know I would have a very difficult time if I moved to the NE. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

Be gentle with New England tonight, all . . . state of emergency (MA) and a lot of people hurting. 

OP, I'm glad you're in a place where you fit. ❤️ Come back and see us in the summer some time! 

 

 

Oh, I’m so sorry to read about this! I had not heard. 

((Hugs))) people of Boston.