Adjusting to new social norms when moving (subtitle: is everyone in New England really this rude?) UPDATE AT PAGE 7 or SO

[moonflower]

5 minutes ago, Mainer said:

...

Now I’m wondering if I’ve evolved during my  7 years in Colorado to be chatty, and I won’t fit in in the Northeast anymore! I have had SO many social interactions go wrong in PA... like the first time I went to the library to get a library card. I was so ready to be part of a small-town community and just go all in. “Hi, I just moved here and I can’t wait to get a library card! This is a beautiful library!” I said to the librarian. She just looked at me without smiling and said, “Did you bring proof of residency?”

...

 

 

Hah, this is pretty much exactly how it's gone so far.  

[scholastica]

2 hours ago, Selkie said:

That sounds depressing to me. I'm not a super-chatty extrovert type who makes small talk with everyone I see, but I enjoy living in an area where friendliness and good manners are the norm. 

I’m with you. We had the opportunity to move back to where I’m from about 10 years ago and I said no way! I do enjoy the friendlier attitudes where I live now. I’m still more direct than most people, but it’s so much nicer to chat with folks. 

[Kanin]

2 minutes ago, moonflower said:

 

To be fair, so far we've only been in Bangor and points farther east (and down-coast from Bangor - not sure how you're supposed to say that, but like towards Bar Harbor on the coast and along the Penobscot).  Winterport, etc.  

 

It’s a little hard to spell phonetically, but it’s supposed to be pronounced like bang-gore.

[Kanin]

3 minutes ago, moonflower said:

 

Hah, this is pretty much exactly how it's gone so far.  

 

Well, I’ll be your friend!!

[MEmama]

5 minutes ago, Mainer said:

I grew up in Maine, went on to Boston, Colorado and PA, and now I”m going back to mid coast Maine in a month. I can’t wait!!’

Now I’m wondering if I’ve evolved during my  7 years in Colorado to be chatty, and I won’t fit in in the Northeast anymore! I have had SO many social interactions go wrong in PA... like the first time I went to the library to get a library card. I was so ready to be part of a small-town community and just go all in. “Hi, I just moved here and I can’t wait to get a library card! This is a beautiful library!” I said to the librarian. She just looked at me without smiling and said, “Did you bring proof of residency?”

I feel like everyone in Maine is perfectly friendly, but I guess maybe they don’t see the point of doing small talk with strangers, like someone said above. When I lived in Boston, everyone pretty much went out of their way to NEVER look at anyone else on the subway, on the sidewalk, etc. 

You’ll definitely find the chatty Newenglanders eventually. It just takes time ?

Oh, and about the swimming thing... YES! In this area of PA, there’s hardly any water... so no free swimming. There are pools, but they’re kind of expensive, and crowded. I can’t wait to just have (nearly) free access to any water I can find!

 

Welcome home, Mainer! :)

The library thing makes me think of a (short) interaction last weekend in Boston. We'd just dropped DS off at his classes and were waiting at a light when a woman came up next to us on the sidewalk and started in some inane conversation with us about hot it was, and her poor daughter couldn't believe it and blah blah blah and it just took all we had to look at her and mumble "uh huh" before walking away. I felt a little bad for her, clearly a tourist...she wasn't going to have much luck talking to strangers on the sidewalk! Lol

[MEmama]

6 minutes ago, moonflower said:

 

To be fair, so far we've only been in Bangor and points farther east (and down-coast from Bangor - not sure how you're supposed to say that, but like towards Bar Harbor on the coast and along the Penobscot).  Winterport, etc.  

 

Yeah, okay. I figured. Come to the Midcoast. :)

[moonflower]

I did spend weeks saying Bang-er.  And, although I figured this one out much faster, Or-RON-no.  Bane-gor is hard to say in a weird way.

[Kanin]

2 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Welcome home, Mainer! ?

The library thing makes me think of a (short) interaction last weekend in Boston. We'd just dropped DS off at his classes and were waiting at a light when a woman came up next to us on the sidewalk and started in some inane conversation with us about hot it was, and her poor daughter couldn't believe it and blah blah blah and it just took all we had to look at her and mumble "uh huh" before walking away. I felt a little bad for her, clearly a tourist...she wasn't going to have much luck talking to strangers on the sidewalk! Lol

Thanks, I’m practically giddy!

Oh, Boston. Now that everyone has smartphones, the social interaction must be cut down even more! When I lived there I had to ignore people by doing crosswords... but now anyone can just stare at a screen.

[scholastica]

12 minutes ago, Mainer said:

 

I feel like everyone in Maine is perfectly friendly, but I guess maybe they don’t see the point of doing small talk with strangers, like someone said above. When I lived in Boston, everyone pretty much went out of their way to NEVER look at anyone else on the subway, on the sidewalk, etc.

 

Boston is a beautiful city and probably my favorite in the country, but, yeah, probably the rudest, too.

[Pippen]

4 hours ago, moonflower said:

Any relatively minor traffic error (having to change lanes, slowing down to look at cross-streets, etc.) is greeted with honking and the finger where in previous places I've lived the reaction would be exasperated sighs and disapproving expressions.  There is a lot of honking in general.  Like 5x normal amount of honking.  And flashing.

I would be a fish out of water there.  In my Midwest town, people at 4 way stop signs don't even follow the normal traffic rules. Someone motions for one driver to go, and usually that one gives a wave or head nod in thanks/acknowledgement.  

[Scarlett]

50 minutes ago, moonflower said:

Interestingly, I had to explain to DH once long ago about the culture of this board - that often people "like" every post in a thread even if they don't particularly like it or agree with it, if it is a thread they started, as a way of showing appreciation for posting.

DH thought that was crazy.  Why like a post you disagree with?  But I've become accustomed to it.

I never like a post I don't agree with.  

[gardenmom5]

 

2 hours ago, PeachyDoodle said:

Me too. I think most of the people down here really do want you to have a nice day. That's why they say it.

Also, I am Southern born and bred. Never lived anywhere else. And I've never once heard "bless your heart" used as a euphemism for "go to he--." I know that's the stereotype, but really, I've never heard it used that way. Around here, it usually means you feel sorry for somebody. 

I've always understood it to have many different meanings, depending upon situation and delivery.  from sweet expression of concern - to "you're an idiot".

2 hours ago, Katy said:

 

It can be a gentle way to put someone in their place, but that's the harshest it will be.  I've never known a Southern woman who had the thought, "go to he--" who didn't say it, but those aren't the type to say that anyway.  Though I did find the following video hilariously accurate:

 

this is what I've understood from other places where I've dealt with a number of southerners.

2 hours ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

?I'm a born-and-raised-Midwesterner permanently relocated to small town (read: "old town") New England, and OP - give yourself a little time. Rudeness isn't exactly the word I would use (now), but there is *DEFINITELY* a culture shift.?

Editing to add: I personally suspect there is more to the "old town" thing that many people realize; in my small town, the families who still live here are the families whose names are on the street signs and the cemeteries and the schools. The same names that line the war memorials in the town centers. In my midwest upbringing, NOBODY had family that had lived there >200 years; an "old" house was >100 years, not >300 years, you know? I will live in this town my entire adult life, and NEVER be "from" here . . . my CHILDREN will be, but I will not. I knew that coming in, and I'm okay with it . . . like I said, I love it here, and I love the New England ways, but yes, they can be a little different.

maybe not 200 years - but I can go to the little town where my mother was born, and lived until she was seven - and there are family names on street signs.   my ancestors first moved into that corner of MO in the late 1840's.  some of my mother's first cousins still live there.

 

2 hours ago, moonflower said:

Here's another question: if you are at a restaurant, not a fancy one but not like Cracker Barrel or whatever, does the waitress come by every 5 or 10 minutes while you're eating to ask if you need anything, how's the food, let me get you a new drink, etc.?

And if so, can you tell me if we did something to offend the waitress (who didn't appear again after depositing our food)?  Called ahead, asked about egg in the fish (different restaurant than the first one), was told no egg in fish.  Great!  Showed up, ordered 2 hamburgers and 4 fish.  Brought out hamburgers and at that time (when bringing out hamburgers) she said, sorry, there is egg in the fish after all.

Well, now we're here and two kids have food and the rest of us do not. So the only thing (literally the only thing, we have a lot of food restrictions which is why we called ahead of time) left to order is a mediterranean plate, so we order 4 of those and she brings them out.  Then nothing else, had to flag her down to pay.

 

ETA: it wasn't busy, (at all) and she was perfectly polite when we paid and were leaving.

I'm in the PNW - it's very unusual to see a  waiter/waitress after ordering and they've delivered the food.  they MIGHT come by to see if I need more water.  It's not unusual to have to flag them down if I want something. usually they will ask if we want dessert before bringing the bill.

I've also had to flag for a bill, and I've had them bring the bill before we ordered dessert.

 

[moonflower]

15 minutes ago, Mainer said:

 

Well, I’ll be your friend!!

 

I think I'm going to need them!  If only to assuage the constant feeling of repeated minor social rejection.

[moonflower]

About the waitress, DH and I literally spent significant time this morning puzzling over what we did to piss her off.  Was it the way we interacted?, we thought.  Was it the way we looked at each other?  Was it a minor disagreement we had with DD? Was it the fish thing?  Was it our accents?  Was she just having a bad day?

 

Man, moving is *hard*.

[Liz CA]

38 minutes ago, moonflower said:

 

When we first got there, I treated it like a suburban Midwest 4-way stop; that is to say, you wait until everyone is stopped, then sort of make eye contact, then hesitate a bit, then go.  I might be exaggerating but not much.

No one ever honked, but it was obvious to me pretty quickly that I was doing it wrong in Colorado Springs.  If I waited as long as I was used to waiting, people would just start going out of turn (skipping me) and I'd realize I'd waited through like 3 cycles of cars and there was a line behind me.  I caught on within a week or so that I was supposed to jump the gun, and everything was smooth from there.

 

This thread is so funny - not funny to you moonflower since you are living through the adjustment - but in regards to this 4-way stop thing. In CA, people would do the same thing. They'd figure someone has no clue or they are tapping on their phone so while clueless person is figuring it out or finishes texting, they just go. :) :) Or they would wave furiously. :)

[Tsuga]

3 hours ago, moonflower said:

We moved to New England from the midwest via Colorado.  We move a lot so I am fairly used to adapting to new social rules, esp. mild ones - how to navigate your cart in grocery stores, how fast to start going again after pausing at a stop sign, whether to wave to people walking by your house, etc.

New England has been a whole 'nother level of adjustment.  I am finding it very difficult, to the point that I am even kind of depressed about it.  I think the constant, repeated negative social interactions are taking a toll.  Do you have any advice about how to make this adjustment easier?  Self-talk that you do, or scripts you practice in your head, or anything really.

Also, related: are they really ruder here than in the Midwest and Colorado (and Oregon and Texas)?  Is it just that I am so out of touch with the social rules that I am pissing them off inadvertently and they're reacting like pissed off people and I'm taking it too personally?  Or is it the normal mode of interaction and eventually I'll adjust to it and not feel rejected/aggressed against all the time?

Help!  The area is so lovely and the water is so clear and the houses and little towns are so nice.  And there is a lot of good vegan food and good produce.  I don't want to hate living here.

Based on how our new overlords in Seattle drive, I can't believe how many traffic rules people think it is just okay to break, without respect to human life and limb. They tailgate to the point of extreme danger. It's insane. Just--human life? Animal life? Plants? Nope.

And no it's not a function of traffic. They do this on residential streets behind someone going twice the speed limit.

And the worst part?

"You don't know traffic. On the east coast we have real traffic."

Uh yeah, because we were following the rules to mostly avoid traffic. You are creating traffic by putting your stupid car in the middle of an intersection and not allowing anyone to merge! You are creating traffic by sudden, blinkerless cutoffs that make people slam on their breaks because guess what that's what happens when you tailgate.

And before anyone suggest that it's assertiveness... it's really not. There's assertive, passive, aggressive, passive-aggressive. Tailgating is aggressive. Not using your blinker and cutting someone off is aggressive. Assertive is using a blinker, getting in the right lane ON TIME, letting people in and merging without a 100-yard buffer on each side. Not mowing pedestrians down while making a right turn. I can accept that Seattle drivers were too passive, but going bananas on people and endangering life is not a solution to that.

And before anyone suggests "that's how you make things happen", no, it's really not. You can be assertive and polite. You will get somewhere just as fast without breathing down the other person's neck. I think people in Seattle can be cold, but at least polite. Anyway, used to be. Things are changing fast. I will be sad when we get the full dead-eyed stare, full of fear.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Maybe the difference between the Midwest and other places is not that we all like small talk and exchanging of pleasantries - some of us do, obviously, but others of us definitely do not. And it's not obligatory to be social while conducting business here, at all. At least not in the city; maybe more in the small towns. In the city, you don't have to chat with people at the bus stop, you don't have to comment about the pastry and coffee, just order and say thanks, etc.

But if we come up against someone else who DOES put themselves out there, we meet them halfway. It's just politeness and human sympathy to not leave a well-meaning person twisting in the wind. I am not the most social person but if a chatterbox or elderly or mentally ill person* comes up to me on the sidewalk and talks about being hot, I do not give them a hairy eyeball and finally manage to croak out an, "Uh huh..." I will say, "Yes, it's very hot! Autumn's coming!" and smile, and then go on my way. It takes two seconds and costs me nothing.

*Meaning that I don't know who they are or why they are talking to me, and I certainly wasn't looking like I was inviting conversation, but here we are.

Is it impossible for people from other regions to do that? They can only communicate with people exactly like themselves, or what?

[PeachyDoodle]

8 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

 

I've always understood it to have many different meanings, depending upon situation and delivery.  from sweet expression of concern - to "you're an idiot"

 

Yeah, it's not usually sweet. It definitely has an element of sarcasm to it. But it usually means something like, "I'm sorry for you that you're so dumb/pitiful and just can't help it." It's a sorry/not sorry. 

For example, I use it a lot with my kids when they are complaining. "Moooom, I don't want to clean my room! I have so many chores! It's not fair!" "Aw, well bless your heart. You're so overworked. Go clean your room."

But it doesn't ever mean "go to he--."

[moonflower]

Oh, and I had the strangest experience with finding a long-term rental (which may not be region-specific, but boy was it weird).  We go see a house.  I call and say hey, we like the house, what's next?  I've already applied online, do you need anything else to process the application?  Lady on the phone says, we have everything we need, it looks good, just come pay a security deposit to reserve the house.

 

Great!  I'm approved! I go get a money order for the security deposit (which is $1750, so not exactly cheap) and take it to the office to sign the lease.  They take the money order, which I've made out to them, and say, okay, now we'll process your application.

Wait, what?  I just gave you $1750 and you haven't processed the application?  Don't worry, they say, if you're not approved we'll refund it.  Well, we weren't approved (it's a 4-bedroom house and we have 7 kids - it's big enough for us but some people don't want more than 2 per bedroom, which I totally understand but it's why I ask about the application, etc.).  So they had to cut us a check for the $1750, which they held for a week!

I've been a renter for 15 years and I have never been asked to pay a deposit before being approved to rent somewhere.  It was so weird (and so inconvenient!)  And it would have been so easy for them to just look at the first line of the application (total occupants: 9) and say hey, don't bother giving us the deposit for this one, etc.

[TechWife]

2 hours ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

 

- knocking on your neighbor's door / offering to do something for them or give them something if you don't really know them (the thing in my particular town is to offer to TRADE something, not give / ask)

 

I’ve always lived in the south. The area we are in now, and have been in for many years has a lot of people from other areas of the country and around the world. The people who have the hardest time fitting in are those from the northeastern US. This one statement helps me understand a particular family we knew several years ago. Every interaction felt like they were trying to turn it into a transaction. They never really relaxed around us - it seemed to us like they didn’t know how to relax and enjoy being with people.  We are all about “welcome to the neighborhood “ and “come on in and have a glass of tea” or cup of coffee depending on the weather). 

[moonflower]

5 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

Maybe the difference between the Midwest and other places is not that we all like small talk and exchanging of pleasantries - some of us do, obviously, but others of us definitely do not - but rather that if we come up against someone else who DOES put themselves out there, we meet them halfway. It's just politeness and human sympathy to not leave a well-meaning person twisting in the wind. I am not the most social person but if a chatterbox or elderly or mentally ill person* comes up to me on the sidewalk and talks about being hot, I do not give them a hairy eyeball and finally manage to croak out an, "Uh huh..." I will say, "Yes, it's very hot! Autumn's coming!" and smile, and then go on my way. It takes two seconds and costs me nothing.

*Meaning that I don't know who they are or why they are talking to me, and I certainly wasn't looking like I was inviting conversation, but here we are.

Is it impossible for people from other regions to do that? They can only communicate with people exactly like themselves, or what?

 

I dunno, I'm willing to give other people the benefit of the doubt; it is probably as strange/rude to them for me to yabber on about the weather as it is to me for them to stare at me blankly when I yabber on about the weather.

But while I would not approach a stranger and yabber on about the weather (although I certainly might say something about it to someone with whom I am already engaged in a social exchange, like a cashier or bank teller or librarian or whatever), if someone said something to me about it I'd engage for sure.  I spent a long time learning how to do this without getting too nervous. ?

[Liz CA]

6 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

Maybe the difference between the Midwest and other places is not that we all like small talk and exchanging of pleasantries - some of us do, obviously, but others of us definitely do not - but rather that if we come up against someone else who DOES put themselves out there, we meet them halfway. It's just politeness and human sympathy to not leave a well-meaning person twisting in the wind. I am not the most social person but if a chatterbox or elderly or mentally ill person* comes up to me on the sidewalk and talks about being hot, I do not give them a hairy eyeball and finally manage to croak out an, "Uh huh..." I will say, "Yes, it's very hot! Autumn's coming!" and smile, and then go on my way. It takes two seconds and costs me nothing.

*Meaning that I don't know who they are or why they are talking to me, and I certainly wasn't looking like I was inviting conversation, but here we are.

Is it impossible for people from other regions to do that? They can only communicate with people exactly like themselves, or what?

 

I had to learn this or rather unconsciously acclimate. Now I do it without thinking much and when my mother visits, she is surprised how many "people I know." :) I am still not a chatterer but as you said, if someone approaches me I try to live by the principle: You don't know what kind of day they had but let your interaction with them be as pleasant as possible.

[elegantlion]

1 hour ago, moonflower said:

It's not a show, exactly, the chitchat and what you might call excessively polite social markers.  It's just the natural way of interacting. Or, the being nice to your front and seethe underneath - that's not, for me, exactly fake.  It's just polite.

How to explain it?  Like, when I'm in traffic, and someone does something inconvenient or incorrect, say they want to get in my lane at the last minute.  I don't honk.  I wave them in. I always let them in, unless it's unsafe to do so.  However, the entire time I'm saying to my self, "Stupid @#$@.  Why can't this $@#$#@ learn to drive?" etc.  But it would be the height of rudeness for me to express that internal dialogue in a way that the other person could interpret (say by honking or giving them the finger or whatever), and it would be fairly impolite to not let them in if I possibly can.  Here, it seems like people have the same internal dialogue, but then they also honk.  Or don't let you in.  Or both.  I don't think that the former is necessarily fake - it's just the standard social interaction.  It's not an honest reflection of how you feel, that is true.  

Or if I'm at the grocery store, about to check out, and I have something I don't want to buy after all - what you do in the midwest is you say, "Oh, I'm sorry, I've changed my mind about these bananas."  You might also say, "Can I leave them here?" but it's generally implied.  Then the cashier will say, "Sure, no problem," and put them to the side, or she might say, "No worries," or something else reassuring.  Here, she just takes the thing and doesn't respond.  (granted this has only happened once, so my experience is pretty limited as yet).  Now, truth be told, it is probably kind of annoying and not no problem to take the bananas from the customer because someone will have to return them, but the cashier reassures you anyway.  You also probably aren't that sorry about leaving the bananas (these things happen and it's a normal part of shopping on occasion, surely the store accounts for this) but the polite thing to do is either apologize or make some other verbal acknowledgement of the minor trouble you're causing.  At least this is the way it works in the Midwest.  It's not fake, exactly, even though the verbal exchange is largely formulaic and meant to reinforce that everyone is okay with this disturbance (instead of being completely sincere and original comments).

 

I've lived in MO most of my life, and our habits are a bit different. I will sometimes let people in and while I might be trained as an employee to smile and tell the customer no problem, I wondering why you don't just put the bananas back yourself. 

57 minutes ago, moonflower said:

I also wonder sometimes about different attitudes toward outsiders.  In Colorado, no one particularly minded that I was not from there (most people aren't), as long as I made it clear that I both was not from California and agreed that Californian values were ruining the state, etc.  In Missouri, if you're from just about anywhere people will think it is cool, except maybe Kansas.  

 

Unless you're from Lawrence, then it's cool. ? I often wonder why people move here - there are good things about the state, but we don't have drop dead gorgeous nature, our weather generally sucks, and we're days from a real beach. It's a decent place to chill and has a generally lower cost of living. 

 

37 minutes ago, BarbecueMom said:

I think coming from Missouri, everything is going to seem culturally odd because we are so, so... average.  We’re just okay drivers, we do a little small talk but not much, we’re polite but not overly familiar.  We don’t use flowery language but we aren’t blunt either.  We aren’t slow and easy going, but we aren’t rushed and impatient.  We have traffic, but not *traffic*, you know?

If you combined all of the good/bad social behaviors from around the country and muted them to some middle-of-the-road way of interacting, you’d fit right in here.  Our state motto should be, “Meh, sure, I guess.”

 

OMG, yes, average. I hate small talk with cashiers, yet I always ask how they are doing, I prefer self-checkout. I will talk to old women who ask questions, but generally, let me shop and do my thing. I honk at people who drive like crap, and I curse at them more often. I never taught ds to use ma'am or sir and boy did that not fly when we moved to Louisiana - he was judged, as was I. 

 

16 minutes ago, Pippen said:

I would be a fish out of water there.  In my Midwest town, people at 4 way stop signs don't even follow the normal traffic rules. Someone motions for one driver to go, and usually that one gives a wave or head nod in thanks/acknowledgement.  

 

This drives me insane. Follow the rules of the road, just go when it's your turn. 

5 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

Maybe the difference between the Midwest and other places is not that we all like small talk and exchanging of pleasantries - some of us do, obviously, but others of us definitely do not - but rather that if we come up against someone else who DOES put themselves out there, we meet them halfway. It's just politeness and human sympathy to not leave a well-meaning person twisting in the wind. I am not the most social person but if a chatterbox or elderly or mentally ill person* comes up to me on the sidewalk and talks about being hot, I do not give them a hairy eyeball and finally manage to croak out an, "Uh huh..." I will say, "Yes, it's very hot! Autumn's coming!" and smile, and then go on my way. It takes two seconds and costs me nothing.

*Meaning that I don't know who they are or why they are talking to me, and I certainly wasn't looking like I was inviting conversation, but here we are.

 

 

Another yes to that quote. I have thought that many times. 

I read an article on Norway recently that discussed that "coldness," and the article commented on it being polite to give people personal space in public. I liked that idea. 

 

 

 

[Tsuga]

14 minutes ago, moonflower said:

Oh, and I had the strangest experience with finding a long-term rental (which may not be region-specific, but boy was it weird).  We go see a house.  I call and say hey, we like the house, what's next?  I've already applied online, do you need anything else to process the application?  Lady on the phone says, we have everything we need, it looks good, just come pay a security deposit to reserve the house.

 

Great!  I'm approved! I go get a money order for the security deposit (which is $1750, so not exactly cheap) and take it to the office to sign the lease.  They take the money order, which I've made out to them, and say, okay, now we'll process your application.

Wait, what?  I just gave you $1750 and you haven't processed the application?  Don't worry, they say, if you're not approved we'll refund it.  Well, we weren't approved (it's a 4-bedroom house and we have 7 kids - it's big enough for us but some people don't want more than 2 per bedroom, which I totally understand but it's why I ask about the application, etc.).  So they had to cut us a check for the $1750, which they held for a week!

I've been a renter for 15 years and I have never been asked to pay a deposit before being approved to rent somewhere.  It was so weird (and so inconvenient!)  And it would have been so easy for them to just look at the first line of the application (total occupants: 9) and say hey, don't bother giving us the deposit for this one, etc.

 

Is that even legal? That sounds so sketchy.

Also, I am with you with "okay cool". That is not a confusing colloquialism in the west. It means, "Yes. Move forward with that."

"I'm going to put the wine in the fridge."

"Okay, cool."

Would someone's reaction to that in New York be like... "I guess I don't have to because you don't care"? Like, what?

[scholastica]

2 hours ago, lavender's green said:

I grew up in an extremely friendly midwest town (so friendly it weirded out my college friends who came to visit), and when I moved to Boston as a young adult there was definitely a culture shock. Especially after I had my first baby there. Seemed like a lot of new parents were actually my mom's and MIL's age, so people made assumptions about our responsibility level and finances. We were sneered at all the time. It was weird and it took a toll. We moved as soon as we were able to. I have to say that a lot of areas in Maine and New Hampshire were friendly enough, though.

Now I live in NC and it's a lot more like the midwest. Not quite. As soon as I open my mouth I out myself as a northerner/outsider, and it can be difficult to socialize if you're not in a church (we are now but weren't at the time), but there is generally an easy-going friendliness.

The “in a church” thing is so true! One of the first questions in the South is always “Have you found a church, yet?” when someone finds out you’re new in town.

[HomeAgain]

18 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

Maybe the difference between the Midwest and other places is not that we all like small talk and exchanging of pleasantries - some of us do, obviously, but others of us definitely do not. And it's not obligatory to be social while conducting business here, at all. At least not in the city; maybe more in the small towns. In the city, you don't have to chat with people at the bus stop, you don't have to comment about the pastry and coffee, just order and say thanks, etc.

But if we come up against someone else who DOES put themselves out there, we meet them halfway. It's just politeness and human sympathy to not leave a well-meaning person twisting in the wind. I am not the most social person but if a chatterbox or elderly or mentally ill person* comes up to me on the sidewalk and talks about being hot, I do not give them a hairy eyeball and finally manage to croak out an, "Uh huh..." I will say, "Yes, it's very hot! Autumn's coming!" and smile, and then go on my way. It takes two seconds and costs me nothing.

*Meaning that I don't know who they are or why they are talking to me, and I certainly wasn't looking like I was inviting conversation, but here we are.

Is it impossible for people from other regions to do that? They can only communicate with people exactly like themselves, or what?

I can say that there are chatty people here. ?  And people do make small talk, or maybe there's just something about me that invites them to talk ? but there is always an element of being more direct and forthright, even in small exchanges.  The grocery store is so out of character that it makes me laugh - at least on days I get there at 7:30am to do my shopping so talking with the clerk feels less rushed.  But the only place that doesn't really do small talk *at all*, not received or given, is our town library.  Which is sad, because we've taken to going to a library a few towns over due to it.  At the other library, they know exactly who my kid is and point out books that have come in that he would like and are just nice.  Ours scans his card, hands him his books, and hasn't bothered to realize he's one of the handful of kids who uses their services.

[moonflower]

When we first moved to Missouri when I was a kid, other kids at school asked me what church we were going to go to.  I said I had no idea. (I had never been to a church with my parents).  They said, well, what kind of Christian are you?  What religion?  I went home and asked my parents, and my mom must have not understood why I was asking, because she told me we were pagans.

Well, we weren't pagans.  We just weren't church-goers; my dad had become disillusioned with the Southern Baptists at some point and my mom - well, she was kind of a pagan I guess.  But anyway, I certainly wasn't; I had no religion.

But I was 10 and naive.  So I went back to school and told my friends we were pagans.

Boy did that go over well.

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

4 minutes ago, scholastica said:

The “in a church” thing is so true! One of the first questions in the South is always “Have you found a church, yet?” when someone finds out you’re new in town.

 

LOL! I’m in Austin, land of the Texas Heathens, we don’t ask that.  But if you’re in any of the outlying suburbs, watch out. 

 

 

[MysteryJen]

The turning left immediately thing explains  the WTF moments I have had lately here on the Front Range. It makes sense that people would do that in places without lots of pedestrians and cyclists. But here, pedestrians and cyclists have the right of way and they step out into the intersection quickly. And I have seen some really really close  encounters that are scary and compounded by oncoming traffic obeying the traffic rules of who has the right of way. 

Seriously the turning left thing is incredibly dangerous here. 

[Pawz4me]

I've only ever lived here in NC. But we have an RV and have traveled pretty extensively across the U.S. I'm always a bit leery of judging other areas, because really--just traveling through, even staying a week or two--you don't get a really good feel for what a place or the people are like. But I will admit that my impression of Maine was that the people were . . .different . . . than anywhere else we've been in the U.S.

I particularly noticed it in restaurants, but that could be because that was where we interacted with locals the most. Here, and in most places we've traveled, we're used to being greeted warmly/politely and having our drink orders taken almost as soon as we sit down. Sure there are exceptions, but in most places you go into a restaurant and you at least have some feeling of them being glad for the business. Every time we ate out in Maine I got the impression they simply didn't give a flying fig that we were there. It was kind of an "eat or don't eat, we don't care and we're doing you a favor by tolerating your presence" attitude. And forget about getting a drink refill or an extra napkin w/o the server giving the impression that we were asking for an unbelievably huge thing. The first couple of times it happened I was kind of quietly freaked out bordering on mad. My guess was that it was a reaction to our southern accents. Which struck me as incredibly ignorant. But around the third restaurant I took a few deep, calming breaths and started observing. And I realized everybody had that attitude. The servers treated all the customers as if they could give a fig that they were there, and as if they were doing them a favor by serving them. So I calmed down. But . . it was very different than anything we've experienced anywhere else in the U.S. We did encounter pretty much the same thing in Nova Scotia, and that shocked me since Canadians seem so proud of their friendly reputation. They did make a bit more effort to be polite, but it seemed in a very perfunctory way to our southern selves.

Anyway--We'd love to to go back. It's beautiful country. And now we know what to expect and how to behave and that it's not personal. ?

[Katy]

22 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

 

I had to learn this or rather unconsciously acclimate. Now I do it without thinking much and when my mother visits, she is surprised how many "people I know." ? I am still not a chatterer but as you said, if someone approaches me I try to live by the principle: You don't know what kind of day they had but let your interaction with them be as pleasant as possible.

 

I went to college in New England.  I was mostly too oblivious to realize what a culture shock it was until I left and felt rude elsewhere.  I think being blonde and friendly helped, mostly. Except one of my friends eventually confessed that when she first met me she wondered if I was hitting on her.  I was just too friendly, but I didn't seem to be manipulative, so I must have been flirting.  She eventually figured out it's just who I was because I was apparently that friendly with everyone.  By Spring semester of my freshman year I was dating a senior. We walked over to the student union for dinner one day and probably a dozen people smiled or said "Hi" to me. Maybe half of those we passed. Boyfriend was shocked. He wondered how I knew so many people.  The thing is I'd only met two of the people we passed before.  I was just raised to make eye contact and smile at people, and apparently that was so rare more people engaged with me than my boyfriend had ever seen interact with anyone.

[moonflower]

So if you're sitting on your front porch and someone drives by (in a residential area, going about 15), do you wave at them and they wave at you?  Regardless of whether you know them.  If you're driving in the same neighborhood and you pass someone walking their dog, do you wave at them and they wave at you?  

We've lived in places where you definitely wave, places where you can wave, and places where people give you a very strange look when you wave, like you're about to come over there and try to sell them something.

[Katy]

2 minutes ago, moonflower said:

So if you're sitting on your front porch and someone drives by (in a residential area, going about 15), do you wave at them and they wave at you?  Regardless of whether you know them.  If you're driving in the same neighborhood and you pass someone walking their dog, do you wave at them and they wave at you?  

We've lived in places where you definitely wave, places where you can wave, and places where people give you a very strange look when you wave, like you're about to come over there and try to sell them something.

 

I would say IME people don't wave. And if you do people might wonder if you're about to ask them for something - whether it's to call 911 or sell them something.

If you're walking one way on a sidewalk and meet someone coming the other way, the most I would do is make eye contact and a slight smile unless you've seen them before.  I would not wave at someone from the car unless it's to indicate that you see them and are giving them time to cross.

I do think local customs might be different though. I didn't go to Dartmouth but I visited there a few times.  I was always stunned that taking half a step towards the road meant traffic from both directions would slam on their brakes, to the point of squealing in some instances.  So I guess I would say in all cases pay more attention to what locals do than the opinions of random strangers on the internet.

[lavender's green]

7 minutes ago, scholastica said:

The “in a church” thing is so true! One of the first questions in the South is always “Have you found a church, yet?” when someone finds out you’re new in town.

And boy does that make it hard if you leave a church!

[elegantlion]

10 minutes ago, moonflower said:

So if you're sitting on your front porch and someone drives by (in a residential area, going about 15), do you wave at them and they wave at you?  Regardless of whether you know them.  If you're driving in the same neighborhood and you pass someone walking their dog, do you wave at them and they wave at you?  

We've lived in places where you definitely wave, places where you can wave, and places where people give you a very strange look when you wave, like you're about to come over there and try to sell them something.

 

No, I definitely don't wave. I do wave at people I know. I would wonder if something was wrong if someone waved at me from their porch or car around here. 

[forty-two]

16 minutes ago, moonflower said:

So if you're sitting on your front porch and someone drives by (in a residential area, going about 15), do you wave at them and they wave at you?  Regardless of whether you know them.  If you're driving in the same neighborhood and you pass someone walking their dog, do you wave at them and they wave at you?  

We've lived in places where you definitely wave, places where you can wave, and places where people give you a very strange look when you wave, like you're about to come over there and try to sell them something.

We just moved back to TX - rural TX, at that.  People here definitely wave.  We used to live in a Chicago suburb, and people waved if I did, but otherwise mostly people just waved to those they knew.  I grew up in suburban TX, and I definitely feel like I ought to wave to people.  I've some social anxiety, and it's hard for me to initiate the waving sometimes, but waving back is normal and automatic.  When I walked in my IL neighborhood, I tried to make an effort to at least make eye contact and nod to people I saw.  It did not actually occur to me till this thread that in some places people would actively prefer you *didn't* make eye contact and offer some sort of mutual "hey there, fellow human" acknowledgement.

[Liz CA]

27 minutes ago, moonflower said:

So if you're sitting on your front porch and someone drives by (in a residential area, going about 15), do you wave at them and they wave at you?  Regardless of whether you know them.  If you're driving in the same neighborhood and you pass someone walking their dog, do you wave at them and they wave at you?  

We've lived in places where you definitely wave, places where you can wave, and places where people give you a very strange look when you wave, like you're about to come over there and try to sell them something.

 

If I don't know them I don't wave but I would smile. Waving would not be considered weird here. I live in the greater Sacramento area. If it was SFO or LA, maybe it would be different.

Where I live, waving is not interpreted as an attempt to sell something. ?

[Liz CA]

16 minutes ago, elegantlion said:

 

No, I definitely don't wave. I do wave at people I know. I would wonder if something was wrong if someone waved at me from their porch or car around here. 

 

Like you have a flat tire or your water bottle sits on top of your car?  :)

[Pawz4me]

19 minutes ago, moonflower said:

So if you're sitting on your front porch and someone drives by (in a residential area, going about 15), do you wave at them and they wave at you?  Regardless of whether you know them.  If you're driving in the same neighborhood and you pass someone walking their dog, do you wave at them and they wave at you?  

We've lived in places where you definitely wave, places where you can wave, and places where people give you a very strange look when you wave, like you're about to come over there and try to sell them something.

Someone sitting on their porch as I was driving by--Probably. More often than not.

Walking the dog--I do this daily. This time of the year I walk early, around 6:30-7:30 when some people are leaving for work. And every single person waves. And I wave back. Every day. Likely we'd all feel like we'd been rude if we didn't. I also wave at most people out walking when I'm driving slowly through a different neighborhood. 

DH and I were out in the front yard right before lunch. Our next door neighbor drove by. He waved at us, we waved back at him. Even though we'd waved at each other this morning when I was walking the dog and he was headed out. What can I say? People here wave. ?

[Jean in Newcastle]

We smile and say hi and often people will ask me about my dog that I'm walking and we will start a conversation and pretty soon I know about their life story and they know (some of ) mine.  I like people.  And people here are friendly. 

[MEmama]

32 minutes ago, moonflower said:

So if you're sitting on your front porch and someone drives by (in a residential area, going about 15), do you wave at them and they wave at you?  Regardless of whether you know them.  If you're driving in the same neighborhood and you pass someone walking their dog, do you wave at them and they wave at you?  

We've lived in places where you definitely wave, places where you can wave, and places where people give you a very strange look when you wave, like you're about to come over there and try to sell them something.

In your neighbourhood? No. Never.

eta not never. If you are are on friendly terms, of course!

On a rural road, yes. Driver and pedestrian wave, or rather, acknowledge. The one fingered lift is common acknowledgement. No need to smile, but if you do it isn't weird.

[Desert Strawberry]

4 hours ago, Barb_ said:

 

This is a really good point. I think my negative association with Phoenix has more to do with my neighborhood than AZ altogether. 

This thread has me a little teary, with a tightness in my chest. I would not be able to handle living in such a cold, unfriendly environment. I'm a warm, chatty person. I'd feel like the OP for sure. 

In our small town south of Phoenix, people are super friendly, Everyone knows everyone, their family, and all their business. But I've been struggling a bit building a friend network, because while people are generally pleasant enough, ( and my friends are all midwesterners), my husband pointed out that no one goes out of their way to make you comfortable like in Louisiana. And I suppose the same was true in Cali. There are levels of friendliness, and I think we all need a certain amount. 

[Pawz4me]

Sometimes I like a post if it's a good/valid point that hadn't occurred to me. Even if I don't agree with it. I'm "liking" the poster for the knowledge or new POV.

[Selkie]

Where I live (rural/small town midwest), it is considered normal to have friendly interactions with everyone you see, even if you don't know them. You wave when you're driving by, you nod and smile when you pass someone in the grocery aisle, you say hello to other people walking down the street. It's nice.

[Liz CA]

24 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Someone sitting on their porch as I was driving by--Probably. More often than not.

Walking the dog--I do this daily. This time of the year I walk early, around 6:30-7:30 when some people are leaving for work. And every single person waves. And I wave back. Every day. Likely we'd all feel like we'd been rude if we didn't. I also wave at most people out walking when I'm driving slowly through a different neighborhood. 

DH and I were out in the front yard right before lunch. Our next door neighbor drove by. He waved at us, we waved back at him. Even though we'd waved at each other this morning when I was walking the dog and he was headed out. What can I say? People here wave. ?

 

We would wave in most of those situations since it sounds like they are people from your neighborhood whom you sort of know by sight at least...and yeah there is no limit to daily waving. ?

However, if someone I have never seen drives by slowly and does not wave, I would probably not wave but only smile. One has to get the fine nuances correct, yKWIM?  ☺️

[Liz CA]

8 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Except if you get far enough north - Alaskans are on par with the Midwest in terms of friendliness, maybe just marginally less invasive with the line of social questioning but still totally willing to chat about the weather, fish, west coast transplant obnoxiousness, and the sale down at New Sagaya or Super Bear.

 

Do you think it has to do with the fact that this area is not densely populated and also it's a harsher place to live - relying on neighbors and being friendly can make the difference when an emergency happens? We experienced this in the same state when we moved from a densely populated metro area to the sticks on the other side of the state.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Sometimes someone will wave from a car or while walking and I will smile and wave but will then ask dd, "Do I know that person?"  And sometimes it is someone we know but I just didn't recognize or sometimes it's just someone who's particularly friendly.  Or sometimes it might be someone who thought that they knew me but didn't.  Like when i saw Bill Nye the Science guy on the street and asked him how he was doing and we chatted for about 3 or 4 minutes before my face got beet red because I suddenly realized that I didn't actually know him and realized who he was.  (He was really nice about it.) 

[PeachyDoodle]

5 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said:

I notice a difference between Colorado (where I grew up) and Seattle (where I have lived half my life, as of two days from now).  I think there are regional differences. 

When I was an account manager in sales, I had as my territory the South and New Jersey.  I did the exact same business from exactly the same contracts in both areas, and it was like I had to put on a completely different persona to make the relationships work.  The South was so friendly and welcoming, but it took forEVer to get through a meeting.  The New Jersey accounts were combative and contentious...but we got the deals done really quickly.  My personality was much more at home in the South as far as the interpersonal interactions, but the part of me that just wants to get this done was a little tested.  

My dh is in sales, and he says this about the South too. And that the cultural tendency to avoid hurting anyone's feelings makes his job difficult. If you're not going to buy, just say so and stop wasting my time! 

[Frances]

2 hours ago, lavender's green said:

I shared my experience in Boston above, but I forgot to add that I did know some truly kind, friendly, generous people. On an individual level, the friendliness may be there, and that counts for a lot.

We did meet some too. The secretary in my department was an absolute gem and she was from the area.  But it was the daily, simple interactions that eventually just wore me down and at times literally left me speechless. 

Edited to add that I still vividly remember my first trip to the grocery store after we moved from upstate NY to CO. It felt so good for someone to just offer a smile and a simple greeting that I almost cried, and I’m not at all an emotional person. 

[moonflower]

I rely on those simple interactions a lot too, I think - or rather, they have an effect on me which is cumulative.

 

Sigh.  Hopefully I will either get used to it or luck into a local pocket of friendliness or something.  Or move back to Colorado in a year.