Adjusting to new social norms when moving (subtitle: is everyone in New England really this rude?) UPDATE AT PAGE 7 or SO

[moonflower]

We moved to New England from the midwest via Colorado.  We move a lot so I am fairly used to adapting to new social rules, esp. mild ones - how to navigate your cart in grocery stores, how fast to start going again after pausing at a stop sign, whether to wave to people walking by your house, etc.

New England has been a whole 'nother level of adjustment.  I am finding it very difficult, to the point that I am even kind of depressed about it.  I think the constant, repeated negative social interactions are taking a toll.  Do you have any advice about how to make this adjustment easier?  Self-talk that you do, or scripts you practice in your head, or anything really.

Also, related: are they really ruder here than in the Midwest and Colorado (and Oregon and Texas)?  Is it just that I am so out of touch with the social rules that I am pissing them off inadvertently and they're reacting like pissed off people and I'm taking it too personally?  Or is it the normal mode of interaction and eventually I'll adjust to it and not feel rejected/aggressed against all the time?

 

Help!  The area is so lovely and the water is so clear and the houses and little towns are so nice.  And there is a lot of good vegan food and good produce.  I don't want to hate living here.

Edited September 14, 2018 by moonflower

[madteaparty]

Do you mind giving an example? I personally find people too friendly when I go to the Midwest but then I am a perma-grumpy new Yorker type person that can’t make small talk to save my life. So maybe it’s not you, it’s them. ? 

[scholastica]

 It’s not you. They really are that “rude”. Try to think of it as “direct” not rude. I grew up in that part of the country. I have lived in two other regions. People there don’t hold back and don’t try to couch their negative feelings (or really any feelings) as they do in other parts of the country. I have had to adjust myself greatly to live in other places. You’ll probably get used to it.

[Kanin]

Which part of New England?

When I moved to PA from Colorado, I was surprised at the lack of small talk from cashiers, librarians, etc. I guess I was used to chit-chatting with everyone. 

My guess is that people might feel awkward with small talk, and don’t really know how to do it. You’ll find the chatters eventually, though!

[moonflower]

Everywhere I drive, especially in a small town or city, they tail me.  Or what would be considered tailing anywhere else I've lived - 10 feet off my bumper.  I drive the speed limit or I speed.  

Where we were staying for a month while looking for a long-term rental (a vrbo) they had a lady come to mow the lawn once a week.  She brought her kids; they did some of the mowing.  The next-to-last week, she knocked on the back door to give me something to put inside while they mowed.  She must have been looking through the windows into the playroom or something, because she said with a very flat stare, "You all have a lot of cleaning to do."  I said, "Yep! Kids!" in that sort of cheerful what-can-you-do-tone that you use when commiserating - and she just kept staring, flat expression, no reply.  I realized afterward maybe she was being critical?  Or something?  Or I am not sure.  

At grocery stores if I make any sort of chitchat at all it clearly makes the cashier uncomfortable 95% of the time (there are the occasional chatty ones).  personally I'm not great at chitchat and had to train myself INTO it in the midwest, so I don't mind, but I feel weird when they say something like, "are these the gala apples?" and I say, "Yep, they looked great!  Bet my kids will eat them all before I get one, though." and they look at me like I'm insane.

At a small town gas station (coastal Maine) the cashier mumbled the price and I wanted to know if it was over the $6 minimum to use a debit card so I said, "I'm sorry, what was it?" and she replied, "ELEVEN THIRTEEN." (again with the flat stare)

Went to look at a house to rent in small town downeast Maine (waaaay up there); it had been listed as available now.  Got there, was a nice enough house but smelled rather terribly of cat and dog excrement and the walls were covered in marker and paint was peeling and had some holes in the walls, etc.  Landlord said, when do you want to move in?  We said, well, in the next week or two, but we can wait longer if necessary.  Landlord said, well, you can move in right away and finish the cleaning yourself.

Any relatively minor traffic error (having to change lanes, slowing down to look at cross-streets, etc.) is greeted with honking and the finger where in previous places I've lived the reaction would be exasperated sighs and disapproving expressions.  There is a lot of honking in general.  Like 5x normal amount of honking.  And flashing.

I accidentally put a molded package of bagels in my cart at the local organic grocery.  When I checked out, the bagger said to the cashier, you have to take these bagels off, she took a package of molded ones.  Cashier was exasperated and bagger laughed (at me, I thought).  I felt ashamed of grabbing molded bagels.  Weird reaction, right?  I dunno.

It's stuff like that.

Went to grocery store 15 minutes before close, was looking at ice cream trying to pick one.  Lady next to me says, can I help you?  (she has a cart with stuff in it and no uniform).  I say, nah, not unless you can tell me whether I want chocolate or coffee.  she says, no, because I work here and I could hurry the process along for you.  I thought at first she was being friendly but then maybe I responded incorrectly and she got offended?  Or maybe she was never offended and I just took offense at being hurried along?  Or maybe it is rude in the NE to show up 15 minutes before close?  I just don't know.

[moonflower]

Maine (midcoast and downeast Maine) and southernish Vermont

[moonflower]

Or you call them on the phone to ask about whether their fried fish has egg, and you say, "Hi, I'm calling about your fried Haddock.  Is there egg in the batter?" And they say, "We only have the fried Haddock on Tuesdays." And you say, "That's cool, we could wait until then.  But does it have eggs?" And they say, "I'd have to go ask someone." And you say, "Okay, that's cool." And they just wait on the line, and you realize at that point that something has gone wrong in the conversation but you're not sure what.

Or you call for a dentist's appointment and say, "Hi, I'm a new patient in the area.  I'm looking for a cleaning and maybe to have a cavity filled." And they say, "You need an intake appointment first." and you say, "Sure, that sounds good.  When is your first available appointment?" And they say, "There's a lot of paperwork to do at the first appointment so you need to be 15 minutes early." And you say, "Okay.  when would the appointment be?" And they say, "No, there's a lot of paperwork.  We'd need (x form) and (y form)."  And you say, "Sure, that works.  Can you get me in in the next couple of weeks?" And they say, "I'd have to go check the appointment calendar, but first let me finish telling you that we need z form and then you'll have to have the intake appointment before any cleaning or x-rays and the x-rays are charged separately and (etc)."  All of which is said in an exasperated tone of voice, at this point.

 

[moonflower]

If I am more direct myself will they be friendlier?  Or are they not thinking of it as being unfriendly and I should not take it personally?

[wintermom]

1 minute ago, moonflower said:

If I am more direct myself will they be friendlier?  Or are they not thinking of it as being unfriendly and I should not take it personally?

Yes. Your questions sound a little too indirect and you may be expecting gushing. Doesn't sound like you're going to get that with most locals. 

[Lady Florida.]

Well I left NJ at the age of 13 and have only lived in Florida (with a brief 5 year stint in Georgia after college) since then. Everything you said or did sounds perfectly normal to me. 

 

[Barb_]

We’ve lived all over too and some places are definitely harder to fit in than others. For example, Eastern KY was nice but insular and getting a question answered took for-ev-er. A year later, I’d adjusted to the pace but never got used to burying the liberal, goofy, urban parts of myself. It was hard. Now we split our time between the Midwest and the Phoenix metro area and I prefer the Midwest. I hate to say it, but you may want to consider state shopping because feeling like a square peg month after month and year after year is so draining.

[regentrude]

I think people are simply more direct and don't chitchat with random strangers. That does not mean you did something wrong and they are actively unfriendly towards you - don't take it personally.

I live in the Midwest (and definitely noticed how friendly people are compared to other areas I'd lived) . DD's bf is from NY. When he visited, he was completely puzzled that DD chitchats with random people like the usher at the movie theater. "Do you know her? WHAT, you didn't know her????"

[MEmama]

Well we live in coastal Maine and I find everyone really friendly. I'm a native California girl and got here by way of the Midwest, various west coast states and eastern Canada and this is by far the most I've ever liked people. :)

Yes, people tailgate. And they will pass you on the right when you make a left hand turn. It's annoying, but everywhere has its driving norms.

I don't think any of your examples sound rude. I'm not sure how you'd want to people to sound; the grocer sounded helpful to me. New Englanders may not be a bubbly people, but they are genuine. I find it refreshing.

 People aren't likely to get all up in your business (thank goodness) but they'll always offer a hand if you need help. Helping each other out and having a deep sense of community is very much a way of a life here-- neither of those necessarily include obligatory hellos to the neighbor whenever you step outside your front door (thank goodness). 

Idk. We love it here, but we've enjoyed living in all sorts of places. Give it time and maybe don't overthink every response. After all, people here are from everywhere (like anywhere) and you're bound to find your tribe after you've settled down. 

[Pen]

You probably won’t find the sort of friendliness you are used to in Midwest. 

Do try more direct and much less chatty. 

 

As much as you think they are not replying clearly to you, they probably think you are not replying clearly to them. 

Gala apples?  Answer yes or if not then what type they are.   Don’t go on about your kids. TMI. 

House needs cleaning? Yes, it does  

Call to Dentist? “

I would like to make an appointment please.  “

Have you seen dr Smith before?  

No, I haven’t. 

You will need to come 15 minuets early to fill out forms.  

All right I’ll come in 15 minutes early  

 

 

If someone offers help like the lady at store, you might try saying yes. 

House for rent when to move in? We’d like to move into it 2 weeks from now if the house including the walls and animal excrement will be clean before hand  

Sometimes Mainers are not at all direct, like mumbling something about a storm could be a warning that going out would be putting your life in jeopardy. 

I haven’t been there for many years and am surprised about giving the finger when driving. I don’t recall that at all. 

[Kim in Appalachia]

I grew up in south NJ, and my dh and I had looked at moving to Maine at one point. We did an extended visit.  I couldn't believe people could be ruder than Philly.  It's a tough environment.  

You do need to be very direct and short (and fast, do not hesitate) with your interactiions.  It will take getting used to. People will ride your bumpers, and they will expect you to be a touch rude back. They are not used to nice. ?  That sounds mean, but you do have to learn to have a different flow up north.  Every time I go back to Jersey I have a day of readjustment shock. But since I grew up there, I remember and it alll comes flooding back.  

We ended up moving to TN instead of Maine. HUGE difference. And now we're in TX. Different from TN, but still has that friendly, slower flow. 

You'll learn.  It's just different, but there are still lots of great people and wonderful things there.  Give yourself time and you'll learn the nuances and learn to appreciate some of the regional differences. 

 

[Barb_]

Yeah I personally prefer knowing where I stand with people. I find direct is easier to deal with than people who smile and wave at you only to quit when you turn down the invite to their mlm or their church. But different people find different ways places easier or harder to settle into, I think.

[MEmama]

Another thought...like anywhere, you'll want to pick your community carefully if you want to feel at home. Downeast is beautiful, but can be quite remote. I'm not sure what you plan to do for work there, or how accustomed to isolated winters you are, but even if those don't bother you it is in general going to be more difficult to become accepted by the community than you'd find in less rural area. In many communities, families go back many generations, and they can be quite resistant to newcomers. OTOH, Midcoast and southern Maine are far more diverse and welcoming, in general, and offer more opportunities.

[Scarlett]

OP, Most of what you posted does sound a little....well, if not rude just gruff.  Not friendly.  I think you will get used to it and just try not to take it personally.  The other parts of what you described sound wonderful.

[Barb_]

1 minute ago, MEmama said:

Another thought...like anywhere, you'll want to pick your community carefully if you want to feel at home. Downeast is beautiful, but can be quite remote. I'm not sure what you plan to do for work there, or how accustomed to isolated winters you are, but even if those don't bother you it is in general going to be more difficult to become accepted by the community than you'd find in less rural area. In many communities, families go back many generations, and they can be quite resistant to newcomers. OTOH, Midcoast and southern Maine are far more diverse and welcoming, in general, and offer more opportunities.

 

This is a really good point. I think my negative association with Phoenix has more to do with my neighborhood than AZ altogether. 

[MFG]

9 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Another thought...like anywhere, you'll want to pick your community carefully if you want to feel at home. Downeast is beautiful, but can be quite remote. I'm not sure what you plan to do for work there, or how accustomed to isolated winters you are, but even if those don't bother you it is in general going to be more difficult to become accepted by the community than you'd find in less rural area. In many communities, families go back many generations, and they can be quite resistant to newcomers. OTOH, Midcoast and southern Maine are far more diverse and welcoming, in general, and offer more opportunities.

Also known as “People From Away”. 

[regentrude]

52 minutes ago, moonflower said:

Or you call them on the phone to ask about whether their fried fish has egg, and you say, "Hi, I'm calling about your fried Haddock.  Is there egg in the batter?" And they say, "We only have the fried Haddock on Tuesdays." And you say, "That's cool, we could wait until then.  But does it have eggs?" And they say, "I'd have to go ask someone." And you say, "Okay, that's cool." And they just wait on the line, and you realize at that point that something has gone wrong in the conversation but you're not sure what.

This could be a simple misunderstanding of "it's cool" as "never mind, it's all good, don't need to bother checking about the egg".

[Frances]

They really are ruder. Upstate NY is by far the most unfriendly, rude, and depressing place I’ve ever lived. Even friends from NY city couldn’t get over how bad it was. It took me about a year, but I finally realized that it did not matter what I said or did, it was all them. And fortunately I was in a college town, so there were lots of nice people from all over the world who also were experiencing the same culture shock. I was also fortunate in that we knew our time there was limited because we were only there for my grad school. We actually learned from our mistakes when I chose my school and my husband chose CO for his grad school, and we enjoyed a lovely five years there. We also decided unless we were completely desperate for jobs, we would never live on the east coast again. Even though some other places there might be ok, our experience in upstate NY forever soured us on the region. Sorry I’m not of much help, except for understanding.

Edited to add that we’ve lived in MN, IA, CO, and OR for comparison. And also spent some summers in Boston.

[Lady Florida.]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

I think people are simply more direct and don't chitchat with random strangers. That does not mean you did something wrong and they are actively unfriendly towards you - don't take it personally.

 

 

49 minutes ago, Kim in Appalachia said:

I grew up in south NJ, and my dh and I had looked at moving to Maine at one point. We did an extended visit.  I couldn't believe people could be ruder than Philly.  It's a tough environment.  

You do need to be very direct and short (and fast, do not hesitate) with your interactiions. 

 

By the time I was a young adult I was a full fledged Floridian. One year when I went to visit my cousin I didn't feel like I was "back home" but instead felt like I was in a totally unfamiliar environment. Where we're from in Jersey is about 15 min. from NYC. It took me almost all of my two week visit to realize people are perfectly nice as long as you're direct and fast. As long as you know exactly what you want to order when it's your turn in a food line or you don't try to make small talk with a cashier or any of those things that seem completely normal where I was used to living, people were nice to you. I would get dirty looks or "whaddayawant?" and body language that told of impatience, until I figured that out. Once I started quickly giving my order or paying and moving on I realized that people weren't being rude or mean to me. They were just acting in the way that was normal for them.

57 minutes ago, MEmama said:

 

Yes, people tailgate. And they will pass you on the right when you make a left hand turn. It's annoying, but everywhere has its driving norms.

 

People often complain about Florida drivers but they don't consider  that a very large number of so-called Florida drivers learned to drive elsewhere.

[HomeAgain]

Bluntness is a feature here. ? You have to be more direct in your interactions - unless it is the mom & pop grocery store that prides itself on "customer service" which really means that the cashier will spend 10 minutes talking to each customer while the 80yo bagger slowly puts things into your reusable bags.  ?  

But yes, it will take some time to learn how to say what you really mean and accept others at face value, too.  I do like it better.  It's easier for me than navigating social situations where politeness is above all else and nothing feels real in the conversation because the other person is always agreeable or nice.

[MEmama]

16 minutes ago, MFG said:

Also known as “People From Away”. 

Yup. :)

 I work in a neighbouring community to where I live, and when people ask me if I'm from there, I joke that I'm from away, the town up the road, but that this community is nice enough to open the gates for me. It makes light of the term, and everyone understands how silly it is in this day and age.

IOW, don't let the term bother you, OP. :). It's not intended to be mean. 

[moonflower]

9 minutes ago, HeighHo said:

People are more direct in business transactions...they save the socializing for social time.

The egg is a good one..."I'd have to go ask someone"...you responded with a colloquialism that isn't in local use rather than requesting they do check.  Your response here should have been "yes, please, I have a party of six that would like to try them out, but one is allergic to eggss"  aka ' please check while I am on the line as its worth your time to find out for me because I'd like to do business with you'...and this area is so in need of business that local restaurants will cater to groups with seating and off-menu choices. They'd make you non-egg if that's what it took to get you in.  The area you are in may not find it worth their time, and of course the employee can't spend his time productively if he's checking for people who may one day in the next decade drop in.

The tailgating is common here in NY.  It basically means GTFOOMW.  Just pull over and let them pass if you don't want to speed up. Same in the grocery store if its a little old lady or a 45ish male in business attire.

 

 

The bolded: Ah, this is where I've been going wrong!  To me, "I'd have to go ask someone" reads as "I have no interest in doing this and am going to make you directly request that I do it so I can't refuse but really I'd rather not and you're wasting my time" while to them it reads "please tell me to do this if it is really required in order for you to eat here"; to me, replying "Yes, please go ask someone" would be the height of unkindness - so direct!  so demanding! - but to them it is just the next logical step in the conversation.

 

We work from home and we lived previously at 8500 feet in Colorado in a very small town, so pretty used to isolated winters, but I think maybe more people in Colorado are "from away" and so there is less sense of separation in that way?  

[Selkie]

That sounds depressing to me. I'm not a super-chatty extrovert type who makes small talk with everyone I see, but I enjoy living in an area where friendliness and good manners are the norm. 

[poppy]

57 minutes ago, moonflower said:

Or you call them on the phone to ask about whether their fried fish has egg, and you say, "Hi, I'm calling about your fried Haddock.  Is there egg in the batter?" And they say, "We only have the fried Haddock on Tuesdays." And you say, "That's cool, we could wait until then.  But does it have eggs?" And they say, "I'd have to go ask someone." And you say, "Okay, that's cool." And they just wait on the line, and you realize at that point that something has gone wrong in the conversation but you're not sure what.

Or you call for a dentist's appointment and say, "Hi, I'm a new patient in the area.  I'm looking for a cleaning and maybe to have a cavity filled." And they say, "You need an intake appointment first." and you say, "Sure, that sounds good.  When is your first available appointment?" And they say, "There's a lot of paperwork to do at the first appointment so you need to be 15 minutes early." And you say, "Okay.  when would the appointment be?" And they say, "No, there's a lot of paperwork.  We'd need (x form) and (y form)."  And you say, "Sure, that works.  Can you get me in in the next couple of weeks?" And they say, "I'd have to go check the appointment calendar, but first let me finish telling you that we need z form and then you'll have to have the intake appointment before any cleaning or x-rays and the x-rays are charged separately and (etc)."  All of which is said in an exasperated tone of voice, at this point.

 

The dentist is trying to see if you are eligible insurance wise to be a patient, before giving appointments.

 

I think everyone is equally kind in different parts of the US, but some are accustomed to a higher degree of fakeness and society cushioning.   I have a really hard time with people from parts of the South and  Texas.  It is super clear to me that they don't mean what they say, and there is a level of 'secret code' in the language. Not just "bless your heart" which means "go to H---" but other stuff too.  It feels meant to exclude outsiders, to me.  But, like I said, everyone is equally kind. You have to do the "when in Rome" thing wherever you are.

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, moonflower said:

 

 

The bolded: Ah, this is where I've been going wrong!  To me, "I'd have to go ask someone" reads as "I have no interest in doing this and am going to make you directly request that I do it so I can't refuse but really I'd rather not and you're wasting my time" while to them it reads "please tell me to do this if it is really required in order for you to eat here"; to me, replying "Yes, please go ask someone" would be the height of unkindness - so direct!  so demanding! - but to them it is just the next logical step in the conversation.

 

We work from home and we lived previously at 8500 feet in Colorado in a very small town, so pretty used to isolated winters, but I think maybe more people in Colorado are "from away" and so there is less sense of separation in that way?  

 

But you don’t have to say it in an unkind tone. You can still be friendly and say something like, “Thanks! I’d really appreciate it if you’d go check on that for me.”   ?

[Matryoshka]

6 minutes ago, moonflower said:

The bolded: Ah, this is where I've been going wrong!  To me, "I'd have to go ask someone" reads as "I have no interest in doing this and am going to make you directly request that I do it so I can't refuse but really I'd rather not and you're wasting my time" while to them it reads "please tell me to do this if it is really required in order for you to eat here"; to me, replying "Yes, please go ask someone" would be the height of unkindness - so direct!  so demanding! - but to them it is just the next logical step in the conversation.

Yes, it definitely means the latter.  I can't even fathom how one would interpret it the first way.  If someone said to me in that conversation "I'd have to ask someone", I'd say cheerily, "Thanks, that would be great!"   If they didn't say they have to ask someone, and they in fact do because they have no idea what the recipe for haddock batter is, would you just want them to disappear from the phone without advance notice, leaving you wondering what happened to them?  What would have been the response you expected from them?

I also don't at all get how telling someone you have to leave the phone to ask someone in the know to clarify a question is demanding??  Of what?

[moonflower]

Oh, I didn't think about the insurance.  We don't carry dental insurance, we just cash pay.  Maybe she was waiting for me to say, do you take X Dental Insurance? or something.  

[regentrude]

7 minutes ago, moonflower said:

The bolded: Ah, this is where I've been going wrong!  To me, "I'd have to go ask someone" reads as "I have no interest in doing this and am going to make you directly request that I do it so I can't refuse but really I'd rather not and you're wasting my time" while to them it reads "please tell me to do this if it is really required in order for you to eat here"; to me, replying "Yes, please go ask someone" would be the height of unkindness - so direct!  so demanding! - but to them it is just the next logical step in the conversation.

See, I would find the most logical response to "I'd have to go ask someone": "Yes, please do that, thanks."

I would never interpret the response as "I have no interest". I would take it at face value: the person on the phone does not know the answer and has to inquire; do you want him to do it or not.

[Katy]

Yes, however... I think it will be helpful to you to think of it not as rude, but as more reserved and genuine.  It's halfway to France. It's more difficult to make friends, but they are much more likely to be genuine friends when you do make them.

The bad thing is that when you end up moving back home you'll suddenly find yourself being insulted by fake women who strike you as trying too hard, and who must be trying to manipulate you to some end you can't yet figure out because they are overly friendly, overly familiar, and overly chatty.  And if you go South, where you are expected to be polite and kind and open to everyone, you're going to feel like the rudest person on the planet for months on end.

 

ETA: DH and I were just musing about this the other day because the morning newscasters on our local station changed recently.  There was one guy from New England, one girl from the Midwest, and a weather guy from the South. In their chit chatty moments it was clear the guy from New England thought the girl was being flirtatious (she wasn't), and couldn't figure out the dynamic between her and the weather guy.  He never did relax into the role and ended up moving back to New England.

[moonflower]

The expected response ime would be "I'll go ask someone, can you hold?" or more casually, "I'll go ask someone, one sec" (and then they disappear)

[Lady Florida.]

5 minutes ago, Frances said:

They really are ruder. Upstate NY is by far the most unfriendly, rude, and depressing place I’ve ever lived. 

Many years ago I let a friend of a friend stay with me during her Florida visit. She was from Schenectady. As was common back then one always went to Disney World with out of state visitors and the drive from here to WDW involves a toll road. We didn't have exact change (this was pre-epass days) so I had to go to a manned toll booth. Of course a toll worker doesn't talk as much as a cashier because of the cars waiting in line but there are still brief friendly interactions. My visitor was shocked that "Everyone is so nice here. Even the toll booth workers are nice."

[moonflower]

Yes, the toll roads!  I did learn that what they want at the toll road is for you to hand them the money and say nothing, or maaaybe "Good Day" as you drive off.  Took me like 4 toll road exchanges before I realized this.  

 

Also they are all cash toll roads (!) and they are all staffed with people.  The only toll road I'd dealt with before on a regular basis was I-70, which is electronic when you take your ticket and takes cards for payment.

[Frances]

1 minute ago, Lady Florida. said:

Many years ago I let a friend of a friend stay with me during her Florida visit. She was from Schenectady. As was common back then one always went to Disney World with out of state visitors and the drive from here to WDW involves a toll road. We didn't have exact change (this was pre-epass days) so I had to go to a manned toll booth. Of course a toll worker doesn't talk as much as a cashier because of the cars waiting in line but there are still brief friendly interactions. My visitor was shocked that "Everyone is so nice here. Even the toll booth workers are nice."

I have a new colleague whose family only lasted two years there. She toook a teaching job at a LAC in a small town there, they bought a house, her husband found work, they enrolled the kids in school, etc. But eventually they could just not take it anymore and came back to OR.

[Carrie12345]

I'm a North Jersean living in PA.  I think I fall somewhere in the middle.  I am used to and expect "fake nice".  Reflexive pleases, thank yous, you're welcomes, etc.  It's weird. I get VERY upset if someone doesn't tell me to have a nice day, even though I know random people don't actually g.a.s. whether or not I have a nice day.  You're supposed to say it anyway!

As far as driving goes, I think people drive like maniacs.  I keep my distance in accordance with the speed limit we're traveling, I use a blinker turning into my own driveway when there's no one behind me, and I almost never drive more than 5mph over the limit.  I don't honk and I VERY rarely give the finger, but I scream and yell like a lunatic when people do dangerous things.  Honestly, I don't even know I'm doing it.  It was brought to my attention when I scared a (southern) teenager I was driving. ?  

[moonflower]

Gah, that makes me nervous Frances.  Amazing how much culture shock you can have even within the same country!  We work from home so we can live mostly anywhere the COL is decently reasonable, but it does make it hard to pick a place.

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

This is a very interesting thread. I’m especially surprised that southern hospitality is interpreted as fake kindness. It feels pretty real to me. 

 

 

 

 

[egao_gakari]

I think the "northier" you get, the colder people tend to be. We live in western MA, and on our honeymoon went to Maine... people were definitely more abrupt--and we're accustomed to abruptness in MA!

It's funny how much the rules of the road differ from region to region. Driving in FL was absolutely insane with people passing on the right, driving super slowly in the left lane... it felt like there were no rules at all. Here in MA we really really like our rules of the road. Stay outta the left lane if you're not going 10-15 over, and don't pass on the right on the highway!

Now that the in-laws live in FL, we've noticed how fast-paced life is in MA. We're always in a hurry and busy with a million things. I think it's because it's not very spread-out, so driving from place to place doesn't take too long, so we pack in way too many events and tasks into a day.

[Frances]

2 minutes ago, moonflower said:

Gah, that makes me nervous Frances.  Amazing how much culture shock you can have even within the same country!  We work from home so we can live mostly anywhere the COL is decently reasonable, but it does make it hard to pick a place.

If it makes you feel any better, I have another colleague who lived in Syracuse for two years many years ago and they really enjoyed it. I don’t want to be a downer, but it really was unlike anything else I’ve ever experienced. But there was lots of natural beauty and great hiking.

[moonflower]

In the midwest, ime, if you tailgate it means you are mad at the person in front of you, either for driving too slow or maaaybe for passing and then driving too slow.

Here they tailgate you if you are speeding, if you are driving the speed limit, if you pass them (even if you pass them and drive faster than they were driving before!  they hate being passed), or if you're just in traffic.  They tailgate in the rain.  They tailgate in fog.  They tailgate at night.  It makes me batty because the whole time I'm thinking, "You're mad you're mad you're mad."

Often I pull over to let them pass (which is obnoxious if I've passed them because I wanted to drive faster than they were driving, because now I have to drive slower again) and they seem to think that is rude too as they sometimes honk.  

Maybe I need to get used to it, and eventually being tailgated will not read aggression or dissatisfaction to me but just the normal distance between cars.  Maybe they are annoyed that I'm letting them pass because they don't see a need to be allowed to pass anyway, they're just driving normally.

[moonflower]

The natural beauty is incredible.  We spent most of a day in a spot where two rivers meet and there is a beach and rocks and shallow parts and swimming holes, etc. - just some random spot off a highway, with some off-road parking that we saw while driving.  Amazing, and not crowded!  If there were a place like that in CO it would be packed, PACKED, all the time.  and the people there were actually quite nice, now that I think about it.

[Bluegoat]

It sounds similar to here in a way.  People have a certain kind of personal reserve, it's almost like not assuming things about others intentions, or not foisting TMI onto people.  There is a strong sense of privacy.

The tailgating thing - I bet they think it's normal.  Is there more traffic than you are used to - I find that is a big factor in how drivers behave.

[egao_gakari]

Just now, moonflower said:

In the midwest, ime, if you tailgate it means you are mad at the person in front of you, either for driving too slow or maaaybe for passing and then driving too slow.

Here they tailgate you if you are speeding, if you are driving the speed limit, if you pass them (even if you pass them and drive faster than they were driving before!  they hate being passed), or if you're just in traffic.  They tailgate in the rain.  They tailgate in fog.  They tailgate at night.  It makes me batty because the whole time I'm thinking, "You're mad you're mad you're mad."

Often I pull over to let them pass (which is obnoxious if I've passed them because I wanted to drive faster than they were driving, because now I have to drive slower again) and they seem to think that is rude too as they sometimes honk.  

Maybe I need to get used to it, and eventually being tailgated will not read aggression or dissatisfaction to me but just the normal distance between cars.  Maybe they are annoyed that I'm letting them pass because they don't see a need to be allowed to pass anyway, they're just driving normally.

My husband describes this attitude as, "If there's somebody in front of me, they're driving too slowly." It's a weird habit people have in NE of driving super close, but then once they pass you, slowing back down to about the same speed you were going. I use cruise control whenever possible, not even just on the highways. That way I'm at least going a consistent speed, and if they want to pass me and slow back down, I'll just pass 'em again and eventually they'll get the idea.

[katilac]

45 minutes ago, Pen said:

Do try more direct and much less chatty. 

Call to Dentist? “

I would like to make an appointment please.  “

Have you seen dr Smith before?  

No, I haven’t. 

You will need to come 15 minuets early to fill out forms.  

All right I’ll come in 15 minutes early  

 

2

 

But that's not how the office spoke, and the OP did  say she would come in 15 minutes early.  In this case, I think she was the one being direct, asking more than once when she could get an appointment. 

13 minutes ago, poppy said:

The dentist is trying to see if you are eligible insurance wise to be a patient, before giving appointments.

1

 

No, that is done by saying, "What insurance do you have?" and they can immediately check.  

[PeachyDoodle]

4 minutes ago, Big Buckin' Longhorn said:

This is a very interesting thread. I’m especially surprised that southern hospitality is interpreted as fake kindness. It feels pretty real to me. 

Me too. I think most of the people down here really do want you to have a nice day. That's why they say it.

Also, I am Southern born and bred. Never lived anywhere else. And I've never once heard "bless your heart" used as a euphemism for "go to he--." I know that's the stereotype, but really, I've never heard it used that way. Around here, it usually means you feel sorry for somebody. 

[Lady Florida.]

7 hours ago, MEmama said:

 families go back many generations, and they can be quite resistant to newcomers.

 

7 hours ago, MFG said:

Also known as “People From Away”. 

Here they're called "transplants" (I should say we're since I myself am a transplant). While it's not true for all of Florida, in my area as in many areas, so many people came from somewhere else that it doesn't matter.

7 hours ago, Big Buckin' Longhorn said:

 I’m especially surprised that southern hospitality is interpreted as fake kindness. It feels pretty real to me. 

 

 

 

 

I was thinking the same thing! It's not fake nice. It's just friendly. 

[moonflower]

It must read fake-nice to people for whom it is not the norm in the way that directness here reads rude/unkind to me (even though the intention in the midwest/south isn't fakeness and here the intention, I guess you are saying, is not unkindness).