Outsourced or homebrewed classes?

[Jackie]

My brain has been in long term planning mode for the last month or so, and I have a long term planning question.

For those of you with older kids, have you found advantages/disadvantages regarding outsourced classes as opposed to home brewed classes? In other words: if I can offer the same general class at home, is it better, worse, or not different than taking a live or online course with a more or less equivalent scope? Does the outsourced class confer greater...something? weight?...and has that been helpful for you?

I’m interested in general answers. In case the specifics help illustrate what I’m looking for, here’s the situation: DD is planning to do Algebra at home this year with the AOPS book. The plan is to continue to do math at home. I’m quite comfortable with math, and DH has a math degree. I’m quite comfortable teaching high school level science. DD would like to do the standard high school sequence of science as soon as she has algebra done. She wants the standard sequence so that she has the basic prerequisite knowledge to understand yet more science. If she does the standard high school sequence on the timeline that she’s talking about, she’ll be 12 when she finishes physics/chem/bio. I have no idea if she’ll then want to return to our usual (up to this point) of free range/unschooling/interest-led sciences or if she’ll want to continue on with more standard courses. In my area, community college classes before the age of 16 require a lot of hoop-jumping and some compromises we may or may not be willing to make. In order to access them, we would definitely need individual instructor approval. We outsource very little of her academics at this point, and I’m not really inclined to change that. I allow her no more than one online class at a time right now (generally through Athena’s or Outschool) and if she wants that to be science, I’m willing. We’ve enjoyed learning together, and being able to pace things specifically for her. But would having outsourced science help if I need to advocate for her later? 

I’ve been very child-led in my schooling of her. I don’t intend to change that. I’m just questioning whether to advise her towards out usual homebrewed units and courses, or towards outsourced classes. Will I be closing or opening doors in this decision?

edited for a clarification: I’m not thinking about college admissions here. I’m actually much more comfortable with those. I’m thinking about the possibilities of competitive high schools, or getting individual profs to sign off on taking a class young, or being able to advocate/apply early for programs with age guidelines.

[Katy]

The short version is yes, an outsourced class or two will backup your grades.  So will AP and SAT subject exams.

[8filltheheart]

I have found no difference at all in how schools see our home-brewed classes vs outsourced classes.   Students can take AP exams (if interested) without taking an AP class or without it being outsourced.  

This topic was recently discussed at length here: 

My opinion is clear in that thread.  But, hey, I am equally of the opinion that kids can attend very avg universities and still go on to achieve their ultimate goals, even attending top grad schools.  I believe that bc my adult kids have done exactly that.  

Equally, others feel very strongly that the opposing POV is the valid one.

It is really family/child/teacher dependent as to which approach better fits them. (I have had kids take both approaches. One of my ds's took 2 APs (chem and cal BC, chem with an AP class and cal through AoPS).  He went on to DE for 5 physics classes and 4 math courses.  Everything else was done at home.)

[freesia]

For us, the main advantage has been relational. The teen years can be a bit if a tug and drive for independence. One of my high schoolers really needed the outside accountability to encourage drive and hard work. My present high schooler works hard for me, but really enjoys the challenge and different style of outsideclasses. 

I don't think it made a difference in college or honors acceptance other than having an outside the home reference. 

[Dmmetler]

I would suggest having one outside teacher for each subject every few years.  I do think it put DD at a disadvantage for Davidson Academy when there was no one to do an outside recommendation for math because, with a math ed and a pure mathematics degree among parents, we didn’t feel a need to outsource. 

 

Otherwise, we have outsourced when DD wanted something  than we could not give at home. Right now, that means several classes at the community college each semester because she wants the classroom environment. 

[alewife]

17 hours ago, Jackie said:

My brain has been in long term planning mode for the last month or so, and I have a long term planning question.

For those of you with older kids, have you found advantages/disadvantages regarding outsourced classes as opposed to home brewed classes? In other words: if I can offer the same general class at home, is it better, worse, or not different than taking a live or online course with a more or less equivalent scope? Does the outsourced class confer greater...something? weight?...and has that been helpful for you?

I’ve been very child-led in my schooling of her. I don’t intend to change that. I’m just questioning whether to advise her towards out usual homebrewed units and courses, or towards outsourced classes. Will I be closing or opening doors in this decision?

In my opinion, I don't think an online outsourced class confers greater weight with an admissions office than a home-brewed class.  Fwiw, I based my decisions on whether or not to outsource a subject based solely on which venue would provide the best educational experience for my kids.  I tended to outsource English classes because my kids enjoyed discussing some of their readings with peers, and I preferred having someone else critique their writing.  However, regardless of where the classes were taken, my kids had SAT, Subject Test Scores, and AP exam scores in their areas of interests to validate their grades listed on the transcript.  

My kids have AP classes in their areas of interest listed on their transcripts, but most of the AP classes were home-brewed.  I got my syllabi approved by the College Board so I would have access to the teacher material and extra practice exams.  I am only familiar with the APs in English, science and math, and what I am about to say may not apply to other subject areas....But for the APs we did, I felt the guidelines that the College Board provided helped me to develop a high quality class.  I had complete freedom to choose the textbook and reading material I wanted to incorporate into my class.

I do think it is important to make sure that your child has other adults that can write academic letters of recommendations when the time comes to apply to college.  Some colleges require a letter of recommendation from a humanities teacher and another letter from a STEM teacher.  However, these letters do not have to come from a classroom teacher. My kid at MIT had his research mentor write his science recommendation letter.  

Bottom line: I would base your decisions on which approach will provide the best education experience for your daughter.  Not everyone agrees with me, but I also think it is important to have standardized test scores no matter what venue you choose.

Good luck.

[Jackie]

To clarify, I’m not thinking about college admissions here. I’m actually much more comfortable with those. I’m thinking about the possibilities of competitive high schools, or getting individual profs to sign off on taking a class young, or being able to advocate/apply early for programs with age guidelines.

I thank everyone for sharing their experiences!

[Dmmetler]

13 minutes ago, Jackie said:

To clarify, I’m not thinking about college admissions here. I’m actually much more comfortable with those. I’m thinking about the possibilities of competitive high schools, or getting individual profs to sign off on taking a class young, or being able to advocate/apply early for programs with age guidelines.

I thank everyone for sharing their experiences!

And that’s one reason to have those outside folks. In our case, DD had tons of people who could write science recommendations, but could not answer questions about her math skills compared to other kids her age in a classroom setting. Except for Athena’s humanities, which she did for fun, she really wasn’t ever in a classroom setting with other kids. I don’f Know that this was why she got turned down, but I suspect that it played into it-especially with the start of the online program-which wouldn’t  give her the classroom setting she wanted. She didn’t need recommendations for the local CC, but I’be heard of those being required as well for very young applicants elsewhere. 

And you’re just heading into the age where DD really started to push back on my being her primary teacher and want more of those outside influences and peers. Some kids are very happy with homebrewed all the way-but it’s good to keep in mind that sometimes, this isn’t the case. 

 

[8filltheheart]

1 hour ago, Jackie said:

To clarify, I’m not thinking about college admissions here. I’m actually much more comfortable with those. I’m thinking about the possibilities of competitive high schools, or getting individual profs to sign off on taking a class young, or being able to advocate/apply early for programs with age guidelines.

I thank everyone for sharing their experiences!

High schools tend to be more uncooperative toward homeschoolers and more reluctant to accept homeschool transcripts than colleges. Seems odd but it is true.  I would recommend contacting schools that you might be considering and asking them specifically what they want to see.

In terms of individual professors, it is possible that university policies might have more control over the situation than the professor.  There are no universal policies, so it is very hard to make any sort of generalized statement.

If you are considering boarding schools, being able to prove active participation in group sports as well as group learning and thriving in that environment seem pretty vital.  This thread might help you with more specific information about prep schools: https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/home-schooling-college/2070969-what-should-we-do-to-increase-our-chances-for-prep-schools-or-sohs-is-it-too-late.html

[lmrich]

I also think it is helpful to find a great teacher who knows how to engage his/her students in discussions and debates. My kids have enjoyed discussing literature, history/politics, etc.. with those who have had opposing views. My youngest dd, surprisingly since she was once so shy, really found her voice while discussing women's rights. I know I could not have provided her with that experience since I share her views. 

 

Not sure if that is the kind of feedback you wanted, but I do think it is something to consider. 

[MASHomeschooler]

My oldest did math only at home until last year. When we applied to Davidson, they asked for 3 recommendations - 1 from an English teacher, 1 from a math teacher, and one other teacher or coach, etc. Since she hadn't had a math teacher, they did allow us to ask another teacher instead (the only classes she'd taken online besides English were history, so that's the teacher who did it, but he still got the math recommendation form, so he had to put that he didn't know for the math-specific parts). This summer she's going to MathPath, and they also required a recommendation from a math teacher (and 1 personal recommendation). Since she's at school now, she did have a math teacher who was happy to recommend her, so I don't know if they would also accept a substitution. Partly because of my daughter's experience, we did have my son take a couple AoPS online classes (and fortunately he did more than one, because the first teacher he asked said they were too busy!). He did enjoy the classes, too, and preferred it to just working through the book, although I don't think he learned the material any better. But, yes, if she might want to apply to selective high schools or camps, she may need a recommendation from a subject-specific teacher. Another possibility, though, may be if she attends any math club, circle, or competitions (or equivalent for other subjects), the person running those may suffice.

[daijobu]

My daughter was homeschooled K-8 and was admitted to a competitive private high school.  She'd taken an online biology class from WTMA and took the SAT subject test in bio and did very well.  She also had a private tutor for essay writing simply because I'm terrible at teaching that.  She had a group chemistry class out of the home of another family, but then the teacher moved away about halfway through the year, so we continued on our own after that.  

Other than that, she'd had homebrewed classes, except for AoPS online elective courses (not core math which we do at home).  HTH.