dovrar Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Based on some recommendations that I read previously on this board I decided to purchase Harold Jacobs Geometry 1e. I can't remember if the person that used it mentioned what they used in lieu of tests. Soooooo, if anyone knows how I can get my hands on tests to match 1e or has any ideas I would really appreciate it. Thanks, Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSprout Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 I don't think anyone uses 1st edition for Geometry... just 2nd or 3rd. I have an old 1st edition in box somewhere, but I've never seen any resources for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Keeper Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I used to have a first edition and the teacher's Guide....but I couldn't find any tests. Here's a comparison I did on Jacobs' first and second edition Geo (on another forum): My second edition student text book has selected answers in the back, but it is not a regular pattern, such as all the odd numbered problems. For example, Chapter 4, lesson 8 (second edition), has the answers to #6, 8, 10, 17, and 27. That's it for that lesson. Also, the back of the book answers do NOT list out all the possible steps in the proofs. ( ETA : as far as I can tell after a quick glance through, I don't think any of the proofs are addressed at all in the Back of the Book Answers.) The Back of the Book Answers (the BBA ) also do not show any of the constructions. The Teacher's Guide does. To go the back to Chapter 4, lesson 8 (second edition): there are 9 constructions in Sets 1-3 that the Teacher's Guide shows (they increase in complexity)--none of these are shown in the BBA. Numbers 29 and 30 are proofs with 6-8 steps that the Teacher's Guide gives, but the BBA is silent once again. Basically, how comfortable are you with proofs? I like geometry, but it has been a while since my high school geometry. I like Jacobs' teaching style, but I need the Teacher's Guide. The first edition Teacher's Guide does give steps for proofs, and show constructions, and give some teaching suggestions, as does the second edition (I think the second edition guide is just a teeny bit more verbose and helpful in the teacher's notes, too). The first edition guide does NOT have the smaller reproductions of the teaching transparencies that Jacobs' mentions in the teaching notes. You do not HAVE to have these transparencies in order to teach the course. The first edition of the book also does NOT have the algebra review at the end of each chapter; and there are one or two more lessons on reasoning/logic in the first chapter that are not in the second edition. And there are a few other minor tweaks to the later chapters as well. Enough that the first edition and second edition materials are not interchangeable, at least for me. I used to have a first edition student and teacher set, which I was able to find very inexpensively (compared to prices on the second and third edition materials). I sold my first editions, and found a second editions set instead. The first edition is great-- but I wanted the algebra review and the tiny bit more of teacher help the second edition Teacher Guide gives. I am not an intuitive math teacher, and my rising geometry student inherited my math genes, poor child. We can be like the blind leading the blind, and I need all the help I can get. You can see second edition student book on openlibrary.org, if that would help. The Teacher's Edition for the first edition (copyright 1974, brown and tan cover w/a building on front) and the second edition do NOT match up. The second edition has algebra review at the end of each chapter (the first does NOT), and there is a slight rearranging of some the content in a few of the chapters. Most of the content is very, very, similar. The TE for the second edition has small reproductions of the teaching transparencies at the back of the book--the first edition TE does NOT. ISBN for the Teacher's Edition for the FIRST edition (copyright 1974)-- 0716704609 ISBN for the TE for the SECOND edition (copyright 1987) -- 0716717484 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 In the 14 years I've been on these boards, I've never seen anyone recommend the first edition. Are you sure you don't mean the second edition? You can get tests that go with that. At least you could back when I first used it 10 years ago. I don't know how different the first and second editions are from one another. There is a huge difference between the second and the third editions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dovrar Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 Zoo Keeper, thank you for the very detailed comparison. Kai, I don't remember who it was, but I wouldn't have ventured to buy a first edition without a recommendation. Quote there are one or two more lessons on reasoning/logic in the first chapter that are not in the second edition. Maybe this is what it was they liked better. I don't remember. I'll have to see if I can figure it out. Thanks again, Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dovrar Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 From when I was thinking about a geometry book to get, I thought I remembered another member, mathwonk, mentioned that he likes the first edition. Googling "jacobs geometry mathwonk" led right to his quote: "i looked in vain for the promised review of these books. I am a longtime fan of harold jacobs' book, first edition, which my 8 year old enjoyed, and was saddened by the watering down of the 3rd edition, rendering it less fun and less rigorous at the same time! that is hard to do, but they not only took out much of the wonderful discussion of proofs and logic, enlivened by hilarious rhymes and puzzles from lewis carroll, but also removed many of the witty cartoons, replacing them with unfunny ones, as if not only logic but also cleverness were evil somehow in learning geometry." No mention of the second edition, but mathwonk is a professional mathematician--I think a geometer even--so if he likes the first edition I'm sure it's good. He seems to prefer the earlier editions of most books, actually. Reference https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/harold-jacobs-geometry-1st-first-edition.818275/ Okay, so I found it. It WASNT on this board. HA. But someone did recommend it. I'm not losing my mind. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dovrar Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 So, I'm assuming that there are tests and an answer key that go along with the second edition. Yes, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Keeper Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 5 hours ago, dovrar said: So, I'm assuming that there are tests and an answer key that go along with the second edition. Yes, no? Yes, there are tests--a test master booklet that has chapter tests, a midyear exam, and a final exam. There is an A and a B version of each test; they are the same in difficulty, just different examples of the same type of problems. The test masters booklet includes answers in the back. ISBN 0716717476 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dovrar Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 7:21 PM, Zoo Keeper said: Yes, there are tests--a test master booklet that has chapter tests, a midyear exam, and a final exam. There is an A and a B version of each test; they are the same in difficulty, just different examples of the same type of problems. The test masters booklet includes answers in the back. ISBN 0716717476 I'm thinking about getting the tests from either the 2nd or 3rd edition to use now that ds has finished going through the text. I want to have something to gauge that he has actually retained what he has learned. Even if the books don't use the same sequence, by the end of the year he should be able to do the tests. At least an end of the year test for the sake of records. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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