Updated - Why do professors put stuff in the syllabus when they don't mean it?

[easypeasy]

Inspired by my kid making it to the halfway point with college (and the other two kids, who are researching and thinking about colleges...), I started back to school myself last semester to finish that degree I never got around to getting. ?  It's actually been pretty incredible so far.

So. Twice now (and I've only taken four classes so far), professors state in their syllabus that THEY wrote THEMSELVES (black and white for one... highlighted in yellow for the other) that they WILL get grades back WITHIN 3 days.

Um, yeah. No. Not happening. We are midway through the summer semester and I haven't gotten a single grade back from one professor unless it was an auto-graded quiz (and we've written four short essays so far - with zero input from him).

My daughter has complained about this at her own school (getting no grades back until the end of the semester for certain classes), which is frustrating that it seems to be a somewhat common thing.

It just makes it that much more frustrating when they VOLUNTARILY put such information into their own syllabus and then just ignore it! If I'm supposed to hold up my end of this professional relationship, why aren't they?

Midterm essay is next week and I'm just gonna wing it, I suppose! I have no idea if what I'm writing is what this guy wants to hear.... but ah well! Argh!!

Edited August 1, 2018 by easypeasy

[Kassia]

I hate that.  It's so wrong and it is even more wrong if the instructor has it in the syllabus that feedback will be provided quickly.  Argh indeed! 

[regentrude]

4 hours ago, easypeasy said:

So. Twice now (and I've only taken four classes so far), professors state in their syllabus that THEY wrote THEMSELVES (black and white for one... highlighted in yellow for the other) that they WILL get grades back WITHIN 3 days....

It just makes it that much more frustrating when they VOLUNTARILY put such information into their own syllabus and then just ignore it! If I'm supposed to hold up my end of this professional relationship, why aren't they?

I understand your frustration, however, the professor may have put this not voluntarily. Many colleges require profs to include this kind of stuff. 

Also, the instructor may have every intention to do so, but ends up being unable because of his class load. I cannot imagine any of my English department friends who teach a full load being able to return all essays graded within three days - nobody can thoroughly evaluate 80-100 essays in that short time. (I am a very prompt grader, and with tremendous manpower, a good system, and late nights we grade exams to be returned quickly in our department, but according to the students this is the exception)

Prompt feedback is important, but requiring instructors to promise a 3 day turn around is often completely unrealistic.

ETA: Have you approached the professor in person and requested feedback? What did the instructor say?

[easypeasy]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

I understand your frustration, however, the professor may have put this not voluntarily. Many colleges require profs to include this kind of stuff. 

Also, the instructor may have every intention to do so, but ends up being unable because of his class load. I cannot imagine any of my English department friends who teach a full load being able to return all essays graded within three days - nobody can thoroughly evaluate 80-100 essays in that short time. (I am a very prompt grader, and with tremendous manpower, a good system, and late nights we grade exams to be returned quickly in our department, but according to the students this is the exception)

Prompt feedback is important, but requiring instructors to promise a 3 day turn around is often completely unrealistic.

ETA: Have you approached the professor in person and requested feedback? What did the instructor say?

 

I am pretty sure this is not a college-required statement because the other two syllabi say nothing of the sort (they promise a “timely manner”). The other prof who didn’t follow through said “one week” but grades didn’t come until 3+ weeks later. 

I agree that a 3-day window is unrealistic!! So take it out of the syllabus! lol Problem solved & everybody’s happy! ? Right now, he’s weeeeeks off that estimate.

In this same class, we have discussion questions (it is online). He has a complicated grading rubric - and we’ve gotten zero feedback for any of those yet. He also said that he will be contributing to those discussions ... he’s replied to one person’s comment so far. 

Prof has solid feedback, but the class has a whopping 15 people in it (and he’s not teaching another class simultaneously ... at least, not at this college).

If that were my only job, I could get 15 essays evaluated and returned within 3 days. I realize he’s probably having a busy summer, but so am I! lol 

I don’t think my expectations are excessive (note that I don’t expect a 3-day turnaround. I just expect that if he says something in his official syllabus, that he be somewhat reasonably close to that, and he is not).

Not going to approach him yet because I feel mostly sure that my grades should be As & I don’t want to stoke the fire unnecessarily. I will set up a meeting if the grades come back much lower than my expectations so that I can figure out why.

 

[Mom22ns]

I feel your frustration! Another one I find frustrating is when teachers say they will reply to email within 24 hours and you send an email on Tuesday and get a reply the following week. I do see this statement pretty consistently, so it may be encouraged if not required.

Don't discredit the idea the teacher is being required to place that in their syllabus just because others don't. It may be a departmental requirement.

In my recent semester as an undergrad, I had one teacher that gave feedback twice during the semester, once two weeks after midterms and then the day grades had to be turned in. As a grad student, I had one teacher who gave his first feedback two weeks before the semester ended, although he told us to wait for that feedback before we did our final paper - 15 pages due a week later. I didn't wait. 

[easypeasy]

8 hours ago, Mom22ns said:

I feel your frustration! Another one I find frustrating is when teachers say they will reply to email within 24 hours and you send an email on Tuesday and get a reply the following week. I do see this statement pretty consistently, so it may be encouraged if not required.

Don't discredit the idea the teacher is being required to place that in their syllabus just because others don't. It may be a departmental requirement.

In my recent semester as an undergrad, I had one teacher that gave feedback twice during the semester, once two weeks after midterms and then the day grades had to be turned in. As a grad student, I had one teacher who gave his first feedback two weeks before the semester ended, although he told us to wait for that feedback before we did our final paper - 15 pages due a week later. I didn't wait. 

 

Knock on wood, I've had decent luck with email so far the few times I've had to use it. (fingers crossed!)

All of these classes have been literature classes (I'm starting with the easy stuff!), so same department.They've each had slightly-different promises in each syllabus. Seems they are required to put *something* but it's up to them what turnaround time they want to choose.

All of them have an "Iron-Clad" No Late Work Accepted policy, which just makes me laugh. Okay then. I can't be late... but you can be weeks late? lol (I get it, but I can scoff about it a little... ? )

(and with all this said, I've enjoyed these classes immensely and have learned so much. I just *need* high grades to qualify for a specific program, so being this uncertain of how my papers are being received midway through the semester makes me a little jumpy)

[regentrude]

6 hours ago, easypeasy said:

. I just *need* high grades to qualify for a specific program, so being this uncertain of how my papers are being received midway through the semester makes me a little jumpy)

which is why I would strongly recommend seeking out the professor's feedback directly, so that you know how he or she is responding to your work

[chiguirre]

Does he offer office hours? If so, I'd use them. I'd also look into the college's writing tutoring if they have it. If this is a general requirement they probably have a good feel of what the essays should sound like. This won't work for an upper level class, though.

Trinqueta just had her first office hours appointment with a professor. It was a pain to set up because her college just changed its platform and eliminated Skype from their own app list so we had to wing it with a personal account. But, technical issues aside, the professor gave her good input and let her know she was on the right track. She's also used the CC's writing center and gotten really good advice there. For the low, low fees we paid, she can go in and have a one-on-one tutoring session with a retired English teacher. After paying for online high school courses, I'm pretty happy with the service!

[easypeasy]

See, in my mind, I wouldn’t think of setting up a meeting with the prof or the writing tutoring services unless I was having problems in a class. So, y’all are saying that a proactive “just checking in” appointment with the prof isn’t an annoying thing to do? Just seems that if he has time to meet with me, he could’ve just graded the darn papers! lol

My final grades last semester were 99% and 98% and I currently have 106% in the other lit class I’m taking this summer (I did extra credit assignments because I was interested in the topics...). So, unless this guy is a grading renegade, I should safely have an A.  It feels very... bothersome to his time... to bother him for an appointment for feedback when I likely have a solid A in the class?

(if this were a math or science class, I’d have already made the appointment because I would really have no idea at all where I am without feedback. Literature and writing, though = Sweet Spot lol Unless he just happens to hate the way I write papers... which is what’s stuck in the back of my mind! ack!)

[Bootsie]

Is it possible that the papers you have turned in so far are not graded papers, or simply receive a "completion grade"?  In some disciplines it is common for reflection essays to be part of the course work but not be individually graded.  

[regentrude]

39 minutes ago, easypeasy said:

See, in my mind, I wouldn’t think of setting up a meeting with the prof or the writing tutoring services unless I was having problems in a class. So, y’all are saying that a proactive “just checking in” appointment with the prof isn’t an annoying thing to do? Just seems that if he has time to meet with me, he could’ve just graded the darn papers! lol

My final grades last semester were 99% and 98% and I currently have 106% in the other lit class I’m taking this summer (I did extra credit assignments because I was interested in the topics...). So, unless this guy is a grading renegade, I should safely have an A.  It feels very... bothersome to his time... to bother him for an appointment for feedback when I likely have a solid A in the class?

I would always be cautions with the assumption that, because a student got As from a professor in a  similar class, the current instructor is looking for exactly the same thing, has the same preferences etc. Without having any data points for how this instructor grades, I would not feel safe making assumptions.

As a professor, I do not find students asking for feedback annoying. Not only struggling students come to office hours - some students want clarification, need reassurance, or simply wish to discuss the material in more detail. My DD spent hours in her professors' offices discussing literature, and it was among the best parts of the education she received.

[easypeasy]

1 hour ago, jdahlquist said:

Is it possible that the papers you have turned in so far are not graded papers, or simply receive a "completion grade"?  In some disciplines it is common for reflection essays to be part of the course work but not be individually graded.  

 

They are definitely supposed to be graded (you can see them in the grade book alongside the points value of each). He’s also mentioned that “he’ll have grades for us on those papers very soon” a couple of times. ? Our ideas of “very soon” vary vastly. lol

I have a busy early week, but will make an appointment with him at the end half of next week and get his input since that was suggested here. ?

[EKS]

There is all kinds of stuff in the syllabuses I get that isn't adhered to.  For example, they all say "no late work will be accepted," but apparently they do accept it because my classmates are always submitting work late and they must be getting credit for it because they haven't flunked out yet.

I finished a class in March and the professor *still* hasn't handed back the work.  It was a pass/fail class (and the pass has been recorded) but the whole point of the class was to get detailed feedback on a paper.  So we'll see.

[EKS]

2 hours ago, easypeasy said:

My final grades last semester were 99% and 98% and I currently have 106% in the other lit class I’m taking this summer (I did extra credit assignments because I was interested in the topics...). So, unless this guy is a grading renegade, I should safely have an A.  It feels very... bothersome to his time... to bother him for an appointment for feedback when I likely have a solid A in the class?

In my son's writing classes at the CC, you had to get 100% to get a 4.0.  A 99 was a 3.9 and a 98 was a 3.8 (which is an A-).  I was totally stunned that writing instructors would grade that way because IMO writing, particularly student writing, is *never* perfect.  My point here is that there's all kinds of crazy when it comes to grading.

[Crimson Wife]

The CC my daughter is attending has standard syllabi for a particular course regardless of who is teaching. The idea being to standardize the course experience so that it doesn't matter which professor teaches it.

In actuality there is tremendous variation. What is listed on the syllabus may bear little resemblance to the way the specific professor teaching the specific section actually does things.

[elegantlion]

3 hours ago, easypeasy said:

See, in my mind, I wouldn’t think of setting up a meeting with the prof or the writing tutoring services unless I was having problems in a class. So, y’all are saying that a proactive “just checking in” appointment with the prof isn’t an annoying thing to do? Just seems that if he has time to meet with me, he could’ve just graded the darn papers! lol

My final grades last semester were 99% and 98% and I currently have 106% in the other lit class I’m taking this summer (I did extra credit assignments because I was interested in the topics...). So, unless this guy is a grading renegade, I should safely have an A.  It feels very... bothersome to his time... to bother him for an appointment for feedback when I likely have a solid A in the class?

(if this were a math or science class, I’d have already made the appointment because I would really have no idea at all where I am without feedback. Literature and writing, though = Sweet Spot lol Unless he just happens to hate the way I write papers... which is what’s stuck in the back of my mind! ack!)

 

I just finished my BA in May. I made it a point to meet most of my professors in their office hours. It's not about whether you're having trouble in the class, it's about building rapport outside of class time. It was important to me to 1. let them know who I was, especially earlier in my college program and 2. show them I was serious about their class and my studies. It also helps that they have a sense of who I am in case something happened in my life. It was helpful when my dad passed away to get some leniency about assignments without question. 

As far as the grading, I've had professors that seem to be slow by nature, some slow by the fact they have several classes going on and just a huge amount to grade, and some in the midst of some life challenge. 

I hope you are able to get some answers when you meet with them. 

[katilac]

On 6/22/2018 at 1:27 PM, easypeasy said:

See, in my mind, I wouldn’t think of setting up a meeting with the prof or the writing tutoring services unless I was having problems in a class.  

 

 

That is definitely the wrong way to think about office hours. 

On 6/21/2018 at 2:25 AM, easypeasy said:

  Midterm essay is next week and I'm just gonna wing it, I suppose! I have no idea if what I'm writing is what this guy wants to hear.... but ah well! Argh!!

1

 

This is exactly one of the times when you go to office hours - bring in your topic/draft/whatever and ask if you are on track. 

[Andromeda]

I am sorry to hear that you haven't gotten feedback on previous assignments. I hope the professor is able to get these done soon.

I am a college instructor of more than 10 years, and my best advice to you (and any other student) is to reach out to your professors early and often. You are not wasting our time, and you are not bothering us. There is no such thing as a stupid question. If you read assignment guidelines, and you are not sure about what it means - please ask. If I answer and you still don't understand, please ask for clarification. My interpretation of the assignment is not necessarily the same as yours, and it is entirely possible that we are both right if this is a paper.

Talk to me. I sometimes make mistakes grading. Maybe yours is the 50th paper I am reading, and I somehow mixed up your writing with someone else's. Maybe I clicked on the wrong button in the in-line rubric or added a late penalty when I said I wouldn't. Let me know, remind me of conversations we had, and I will gladly fix it. If you can explain why you feel that the grade should be different - with the rubric, or the textbook, or whichever resource you consulted, I may adjust the grade. These things happen.

You don't have to be struggling to ask questions or come to office hours. 

[Kassia]

37 minutes ago, RosemaryAndThyme said:

I am sorry to hear that you haven't gotten feedback on previous assignments. I hope the professor is able to get these done soon.

I am a college instructor of more than 10 years, and my best advice to you (and any other student) is to reach out to your professors early and often. You are not wasting our time, and you are not bothering us. There is no such thing as a stupid question. If you read assignment guidelines, and you are not sure about what it means - please ask. If I answer and you still don't understand, please ask for clarification. My interpretation of the assignment is not necessarily the same as yours, and it is entirely possible that we are both right if this is a paper.

Talk to me. I sometimes make mistakes grading. Maybe yours is the 50th paper I am reading, and I somehow mixed up your writing with someone else's. Maybe I clicked on the wrong button in the in-line rubric or added a late penalty when I said I wouldn't. Let me know, remind me of conversations we had, and I will gladly fix it. If you can explain why you feel that the grade should be different - with the rubric, or the textbook, or whichever resource you consulted, I may adjust the grade. These things happen.

You don't have to be struggling to ask questions or come to office hours. 

 

You sound like a great instructor but there are many who are not as open and helpful as you are!  I wish all instructors were more like you!  

 

[Reefgazer]

Many schools have a syllabus template that they require professors to use, and that's probably where that came from.  Often, the template will not allow the professor to change certain things.  The problem is that the 3 day timeframe doesn't suit lots of classes - especially English classes with essays that are time-consuming to grade, math classes with lots of long problems that are time-consuming, and essay-type test questions that you can't plug into a Scantron.  When I have that situation, I note any discrepancies in the first class when I review the syllabus and I expect students to note that.  The fact that other professors do not have this template doesn't mean a lot, since at my school, templates are department-specific.  Also, some professors will not use the template, despite the fact that it is required.  This puts their job at risk, of course, but most count on the fact that the administration is too over-burdened to check up on all professors and discipline them for it (they are usually right in this assessment, by the way).

Edited August 1, 2018 by Reefgazer

[easypeasy]

6 hours ago, Reefgazer said:

Many schools have a syllabus template that they require professors to use, and that's probably where that came from.  Often, the template will not allow the professor to change certain things.  The problem is that the 3 day timeframe doesn't suit lots of classes - especially English classes with essays that are time-consuming to grade, math classes with lots of long problems that are time-consuming, and essay-type test questions that you can't plug into a Scantron.  When I have that situation, I note any discrepancies in the first class when I review the syllabus and I expect students to note that.  The fact that other professors do not have this template doesn't mean a lot, since at my school, templates are department-specific.  Also, some professors will not use the template, despite the fact that it is required.  This puts their job at risk, of course, but most count on the fact that the administration is too over-burdened to check up on all professors and discipline them for it (they are usually right in this assessment, by the way).

 

Definitely not a template. Compared the syllabus with several others in his same department. He is the head of the department, I recently realized, in fact. He did it on his own.

Edited August 1, 2018 by easypeasy

[easypeasy]

Funny that this thread was bumped today because I came to update. Semester is over. Out of 8 papers, he graded 3. My grades were 100%, 97%, and 93% with limited, fuzzy comments.

I spoke to him after the 93% paper (as per the recommendations above) and his only critique is that he wanted to read "more!" I explained that the assignments were for 2-3 page response papers... my papers were hovering at the 3-page mark as-is... so to give "more" would equal a 4-5 page paper. He said, "Great! Fantastic!"  I (to myself) said, "Heck no!" and continued to turn in 3-page papers.

The day after the semester ended - he graded everything. The next 5 papers each received a 98%, 100%, 100%, 100%, 100% (I think I see a pattern here... ? ) with zero feedback at all.

The last paper I wrote? I didn't even read the assignments we were discussing. He didn't post the assignment until Thursday, it was due on Sunday - and I was traveling (driving) from Thursday-Saturday. So, I just sort of plugged in some basic discussion, made up some stuff, and I swear he didn't even bother to read it. 100%

I won't be taking another class of his if I can help it. Although... I did get a 98.8% in the class, so maybe I should? ??

Edited to Add: Actually, on the portal, there is an icon that tells you whether or not a folder has been opened/read by the instructor. He opened NONE of those final essays. I just don't even know what to say.... At least OPEN the darn files, right? Geez. ?

Edited August 2, 2018 by easypeasy

[Kassia]

Wow, that is terrible!