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another struggling with being "done" thread


ktgrok
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Didn't want to totally hijack the other one. 

But ugh. 

I'm 42. I have 4 children, ranging from almost 19 years old to 1 year old. I love my family. I love having kids. I often wish I could go back and put a few in that big 10 year gap. I love how my kids interact with each other. I'd enjoy the youngest having a kid closer to her age. I'm still very fertile...I had a pelvic ultrasound to check a cyst and the technician, who used to work for fertility doctors for years, was shocked at my age. As she put it, "you'd better be careful or you'll be one of those people having a kid at 50 yrs old!". We got pregnant with the last one the first month we tried, even at age 40. Same with DD8. The other two were um..not planned, lol. First child was on birth control pills (I did miss some pills, to be fair) and the other was conceived 4 days, at least, prior to ovulation, with zero fertile cervical mucus. We could easily, physically, conceive another I feel. 

Pregnancy wise, I am physically fine with a tiny bit of elevated blood pressure but never pre-eclampsia. (yes, fully checked for it, lots of lab work, etc). Easy vaginal births for the last 3. Easy time breastfeeding. I do have some pelvic floor issues going on now though. So that's a factor. (no leaking or anything, but rectocele and some aching/pain and some prolapse into the vagina I think, just around ovulation). 

And i'm old, lol! I'm 42. DH is going to be 39 in a few months. Our house is a three bedroom, and the teen isn't moving out anytime soon. We already have 3 kids in one bedroom because of that, we have no room for another. My family would FREAK OUT. My mom has anxiety and flips out every time I'm pregnant. Like, has told me I can't have more because of her. Whatever. Biggest of these is DH is done. He has the stress of providing and he just doesn't feel he can handle more. So he keeps saying he's going to schedule a vasectomy. Sigh. It makes sense. I don't need another kid, I'm fine with being done. But I'm NOT fine with permanently preventing. Which makes very little sense, given our ages, lol. 

Also, I'm Catholic. I would not get sterilized. But DH is not Catholic, and my faith says it is okay for him therefore to do it, it wouldn't be a sin on my part, if that makes sense. But still...sigh. Right now we use condoms, again, not my choice (mine would be NFP) but not on my conscience either, according to my church. I hate them, they irritate me, even the non latex ones. But I don't complain, because it's better than a vasectomy. 

Basically, there is no real reason for me to but upset he's going to do this, and I'm not giving him grief about it, but I'm still sad about it. Really, that's the feeling. Sad. 

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Yeah, I get it. We had our surprise baby in January, and our next youngest is 8.  I’m 35, and I’ve had high blood pressure with 3 of my 4 (including full-blown eclampsia with my oldest.)  My body told me loud and clear all through my last pregnancy: you are done. So, I got a tubal during my c section.  And now I find myself very sad about that decision, even though it was clearly right for me.  I figure, either I will become ok with it, or maybe adoption is in our future.  

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Thanks all. 

I know I'm lucky, in that i'm okay with not having more children now. I wasn't before, and God blessed me with a change in my husband's attitude and we got our lovely baby bug. That was excruciating, wanting another and him not, until he did. This is different. I'd laugh if I got pregnant again, and smile, but I'm not aching for another. I'm okay being done. I'm just not okay doing something permanent to be done. 

Not wanting another isn't the same as wanting to prevent another I guess? Or something. Either way, I'm very lucky, and I know it. For about a decade I thought I'd only have the one. Now I have a bustling family with 4 kids. 

But yeah, just trying to walk a line where I am not unsupportive of him and his needs, and yet not dismissive of my own beliefs and feelings. 

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(((Katie)))

I think we're kind of in the same place (except in my case my dh and I are in agreement).  I'm (finally) ok with being done, but I'm also ok with having another.  

My youngest is almost 8, so going back to the baby stages would be difficult at this point, but it's not such a big deal that I wouldn't want another child.

My health is not the greatest, but we recently found out that some of that is due to anemia.  This explains why I often felt better during pregnancy.

I have a 50/50 chance of passing on a birth defect, but since I lived with the birth defect for 30+ years without even knowing I had it, that isn't a deal-breaker, either.

 

Hugs to you Katie.  It sounds like it's kind of out of your hands.  I hope that you can have peace with whichever decision your dh makes. 

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Is your 19-year-old in college yet? Those bills could cure what ails you. ? It’s entirely possible that you could have a dozen kids and still be sad to see that phase of life end. It’s ok to mourn that while realizing that “one more baby” won’t keep you from going through that sadness. 

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2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Also, I'm Catholic. I would not get sterilized. But DH is not Catholic, and my faith says it is okay for him therefore to do it, it wouldn't be a sin on my part, if that makes sense. But still...sigh. Right now we use condoms, again, not my choice (mine would be NFP) but not on my conscience either, according to my church. I hate them, they irritate me, even the non latex ones. But I don't complain, because it's better than a vasectomy. 

Basically, there is no real reason for me to but upset he's going to do this, and I'm not giving him grief about it, but I'm still sad about it. Really, that's the feeling. Sad. 


The following has nothing to do with the real point of the OP of yours, but...can I ask who told you what I bolded above? Because that is not the teaching as I understand it nor as I have heard it explained by various people more knowledgeable than myself, including priests.

As for your OP, I feel your pain. We currently have 4 and are fairly certain we are done. Part of me knows that even if we had a dozen, I'd be a little sad to see the NB gone forever. But now that our youngest is closing in on 2, it's hitting me harder than I expected. I hope you can find peace.

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My DH got a vasectomy when our youngest was only a few months old. He said 3 was enough and he didn't want anymore. He was 41 yrs. old. I wasn't ready for such a drastic measure but he said it was his body and his choice. I'll confess it took me about 10 years to accept his decision with peace. I cried many a night. I still don't feel our family is complete and my youngest is 20. It's sort of a feeling of having left someone behind.

I suggest you talk this out before he does it. Make darn certain he's saying he never wants anymore. Then you'll have to accept his decision. I can't help with that though. I wish it hadn't taken me so long to get over it.

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I am exactly 10 years older than you. Let me tell you, I could do a lot more and handle a lot more a decade ago vs today, lol! So you have to think not only about how you feel now, but how you will feel five, ten, fifteen, and twenty years from now. 

Having said that, it's okay to be sad. I have no desire to homeschool for another ten years, but I'm still sad that we're done. 

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50 minutes ago, barnwife said:


The following has nothing to do with the real point of the OP of yours, but...can I ask who told you what I bolded above? Because that is not the teaching as I understand it nor as I have heard it explained by various people more knowledgeable than myself, including priests.

As for your OP, I feel your pain. We currently have 4 and are fairly certain we are done. Part of me knows that even if we had a dozen, I'd be a little sad to see the NB gone forever. But now that our youngest is closing in on 2, it's hitting me harder than I expected. I hope you can find peace.

My priest, and others have said that as long as I do not encourage his use of barrier methods, I can still have sex with him and it is not a sin. That I do not have to deny him sex because HE chooses to use a condom or be sterilized. 

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I’m in a similar place. We have four ages 8-14. We’re still fairly young. My DH has been “done” since the we had the fourth but I’ve always thought DS should have had a brother or two. I know there’s no guarantee I would have had a boy, of course, but I just didn’t feel done. In the past few months I have started to feel like I’m done.

I don’t really care to start over with the baby stuff. I’m enjoying the freedom I have now and looking forward to going to school in a few years and having a career. We got married a few week shy of my 20th birthday so I missed all of that. I don’t regret getting married or having my kids young but I am looking forward to doing something different. 

At the same time, I’d be happy to find out I’m pregnant again. I’m pretty sure DH wouldn’t be. It’s a possibility though because our birth control options are limited for religious reasons (mostly my beliefs). DH has mentioned a vasectomy in the past but never gone through with it. I’m so glad. While I’m ok with being done, that just seems like to much finality. 

Now we’re moving tomorrow. Our last two were born around the time of major life changes - a move and a new job - and were both unplanned (and we were actively trying to prevent pregnancy). Makes me wonder what might happen this time. I also just got rid of the crib. Getting rid of baby stuff seems to have this ability to cause pregnancy too. LOL

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I had a 3rd child at 42, 10 years after child 2.  I really wanted a 4th to go along with him.  Miscarriages and getting older have put me to the other side of the craving.  I did mourn that for a couple years, but now I'm so far on the other side that I would really have a panic attack if I were pregnant.  

Recently someone with a family of 2 kids, the exact ages of my other kids asked us over for a child free evening.   I'm kind of wondering if this will happen more often and we will have to rework friendships.   I don't mind a few child free evenings, but the little one still needs to be a part of our life for quite some years to come.  

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5 hours ago, Danae said:

I think the idea that "I will never again <insert positive thing>" is always a sad thought, even when we're fully ready to be done. Our youngest was born when my husband was 50. I wouldn't have minded one more, but 50 was his limit on the odds that he would be alive and active through their childhood. I agree with his rationale . . . but when I think that I will never again be pregant/give birth/nurse a baby, etc., it's sad. It's like "you've had your turn, no more for you!" and that gets to me, even though I don't actually want any more. What, never? 

THIS a million times. I abhor endings. I love being in the middle of the story, with lots of book left to read. Thanks for expressing that so well, Danae. 

I am at an ending, now. It is hard! So I really understand, ktgrok. ❤️

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I have been in those shoes. I was also extremely against sterilization (for our purposes) and I am not Catholic nor do I play one on TV. ? I just strongly believe we should not be disabling a functional body system unless the reason is significant, i.e., I would die or we would be homeless. Thankfully, my DH did see that I was very dead serious about that particular option, so he hasn’t gotten a V. However, we are underwhelmingly fertile and so that plays into it as well, because there was no great likelihood we would get pg unintentionally. 

At present, I have Mirena, but this was an easy choice to make because I had heavy bleeding and period problems that mirena would solve. My choices were Mirena or ablation, so I chose Mirena in part because it would also solve the bc problem, probably until I am in menopause. I realize many Catholics will not choose an IUD. 

I don’t know if this next bit will be encouraging or not; I mean for it to be. But now, I am relieved that we did not have another baby. The farther I get away from naps and sleepless nights and breast infections and figuring out why someone is fussy and trying to instill a love for vegetables and prescreening media to make sure it is safe, etc., etc., the more sanguine I do become about being towards the tail end of active parenting. And life past 45 has me admitting I do not have the energy or patience I had when I was brimming with all the happy hormones. And DH is 55. So he arrived at that “tired” point earlier than I did and it was hard for me to see his complaint, but I see it now. 

What I mean to say is, for me, the switch did flip, and that seemed unimaginable to me at 42. I was grieving the imaginary family I did not get and the realization that I was not going to have that. No six kids, no (living) sister to be sisters with my DD, no happy ducklings fanning out behind me, no rude comments about having too many kids. It was hard to come to grips with it simply not coming to be what I imagined, hoped for, prayed for and believed at one time was surely what God meant for me. But now I am happy to be beyond that tumult, and I can see all the benefits of having only these three kids. 

 

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I had no chance of getting pregnant and had started menopause at 44 when I had my ovaries removed for medical reasons.  I was still sad.  I hated breastfeeding but was still sad that I would never do it again.  Some of us feel endings more strongly.  Others see them as new beginnings.

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On 6/20/2018 at 2:16 PM, KungFuPanda said:

It’s entirely possible that you could have a dozen kids and still be sad to see that phase of life end. It’s ok to mourn that while realizing that “one more baby” won’t keep you from going through that sadness. 

Thank you for this!

I am 44 and have 5 kids and a long and involved story of "we're done, no more, DH please get a V, but he's not sure" flip flopped with "wait, I was wrong, one more would be good, I'm glad you didn't do anything permanent" ? My last pregnancy was planned and I was 41 and it ended in miscarriage and now I just feel kind of like I got cheated because I was planning to do it all just one.more.time. and savor every moment. Which of course I wouldn't have done because, you know, puking and sleepless nights and toddler tantrums would have made it seem much less romantic in reality than it does in my head ?

Now that I'm a few years older I can see that a baby or a toddler right now would be ... exhausting. And I'm too old for that. And I really don't *want* another person in our family forever, but I really don't want to close that door either. And it's sad. And that's ok.

It's good to be reminded that I probably would be having these exact same feelings even if that pregnancy had not ended in miscarriage and I had had that "one more time" with that baby. Because there's always going to be a "last time" no matter how many I have.

Edited by Momto5inIN
Eta because thankfully Quill pointed out I used an offensive word unintentionally
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Quote

now I just feel kind of like I got gypped (is that how you spell that word?)

Advisable to just say “cheated” instead. 

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Just now, Momto5inIN said:

Is it some kind of slur I don't know about? I don't want to be offensive!

Yes; some people feel that it is disparaging towards the Romani people who are called Gypsies. So, to be “gypped” is to be swindled by someone acting “like a Gypsie.” So I learned one day here. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Quill said:

Yes; some people feel that it is disparaging towards the Romani people who are called Gypsies. So, to be “gypped” is to be swindled by someone acting “like a Gypsie.” So I learned one day here. 

 

Thank you! I knew it came from "gypsy" but I had no idea that gypsies are a people/cultural group. I guess I just thought that "gypsies" referred to an group of people who used to roam around and put on shows in medieval times and were sometimes viewed as unsavory and were not necessarily racially or culturally related to each other. I learn so much from these boards!

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3 minutes ago, Momto5inIN said:

Thank you! I knew it came from "gypsy" but I had no idea that gypsies are a people/cultural group. I guess I just thought that "gypsies" referred to an group of people who used to roam around and put on shows in medieval times and were sometimes viewed as unsavory and were not necessarily racially or culturally related to each other. I learn so much from these boards!

Me too. I have also been listening to The Hunchback of Notre Dame and for the first time ever, I realized that ”gypsy” came from the word “Egyptian,” though that was apparently a misnomer. It seems very obvious now, but I never connected those two words until I heard it in the book. 

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5 minutes ago, Momto5inIN said:

Thank you! I knew it came from "gypsy" but I had no idea that gypsies are a people/cultural group. I guess I just thought that "gypsies" referred to an group of people who used to roam around and put on shows in medieval times and were sometimes viewed as unsavory and were not necessarily racially or culturally related to each other. I learn so much from these boards!

In related news, “gypsy” is also considered a slur and is being phased out of polite society so that it’s only ok for Romani people to use it if they so choose. 

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1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

In related news, “gypsy” is also considered a slur and is being phased out of polite society so that it’s only ok for Romani people to use it if they so choose. 

Sorry this thread is getting derailed, but just wanted to add this as an interesting sidenote: I read a lot of news from other countries and the news media in other parts of the world still use the word gypsies all the time. They also call them travelers. It is not just Romani people that are called that - they also refer to Irish gypsies or travelers.

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I didn't mean to derail, please let's carry on talking about how many babies we wish we'd had! ?

I'm not sure if DH is still thinking of a V or not. We haven't discussed it lately. After many times throughout our marriage of me wanting him to get one and him not thinking it was the right time, we seem to have switched places and he's more open to it now than I am. I just don't know what I'd say if he told me he was sure he was ready to get one. While I dislike the thought of something permanent, there is a not insignificant amount of appeal to the idea of spontaneous tea parties ?

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2 hours ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

No, it's something old. It's the same old disrespect for minorities, same as every old day, down through time. Of course, I am not referring to those who don't know, but when they learn, they do better.

 

Considering that up until recently I thought it was "jipped" because that's the spelling I've seen most, I don't think that 99% of the people using the word realize its origins in negative stereotypes of Gypsies/Romany.

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2 hours ago, Crimson Wife said:

 

Considering that up until recently I thought it was "jipped" because that's the spelling I've seen most, I don't think that 99% of the people using the word realize its origins in negative stereotypes of Gypsies/Romany.

 

Nobody is expected to know everything all the time. It's more about how we react when we gain some new (to us) understanding about others. 

I'm surprised when people don't know this one, on these forums, because we have discussed it a million times over the years that I've been here, but of course, I don't think it's realistic to expect everyone to read everything. But now you know why people always say it, when the opportunity arises: It's because they assume that the person is ignorant, not that the person doesn't care. You don't know that someone doesn't care until they tell you, but ignorance is fairly easy to spot.

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5 hours ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

Nobody is expected to know everything all the time. It's more about how we react when we gain some new (to us) understanding about others. 

I'm surprised when people don't know this one, on these forums, because we have discussed it a million times over the years that I've been here, but of course, I don't think it's realistic to expect everyone to read everything. But now you know why people always say it, when the opportunity arises: It's because they assume that the person is ignorant, not that the person doesn't care. You don't know that someone doesn't care until they tell you, but ignorance is fairly easy to spot.

 

Not to mention, this has been something not to say since the 80's. I read a kid's novel about Gypsies in England in the late 80's that confronted that phrase then.

Basically, if you don't know the origin of a phrase that involves cheating other people, it probably has roots in racism. Look it up to verify or avoid it. Most of them I've heard are about one of three specific groups.

And you don't have to avoid linguistic landmines if you speak clearly and use a word like "cheat" or "fraud" rather than any obscure phrase you don't know the meaning of.

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On 6/20/2018 at 11:23 AM, Ktgrok said:

Didn't want to totally hijack the other one. 

But ugh. 

I'm 42. I have 4 children, ranging from almost 19 years old to 1 year old. I love my family. I love having kids. I often wish I could go back and put a few in that big 10 year gap. I love how my kids interact with each other. I'd enjoy the youngest having a kid closer to her age. I'm still very fertile...I had a pelvic ultrasound to check a cyst and the technician, who used to work for fertility doctors for years, was shocked at my age. As she put it, "you'd better be careful or you'll be one of those people having a kid at 50 yrs old!". We got pregnant with the last one the first month we tried, even at age 40. Same with DD8. The other two were um..not planned, lol. First child was on birth control pills (I did miss some pills, to be fair) and the other was conceived 4 days, at least, prior to ovulation, with zero fertile cervical mucus. We could easily, physically, conceive another I feel. 

Pregnancy wise, I am physically fine with a tiny bit of elevated blood pressure but never pre-eclampsia. (yes, fully checked for it, lots of lab work, etc). Easy vaginal births for the last 3. Easy time breastfeeding. I do have some pelvic floor issues going on now though. So that's a factor. (no leaking or anything, but rectocele and some aching/pain and some prolapse into the vagina I think, just around ovulation). 

And i'm old, lol! I'm 42. DH is going to be 39 in a few months. Our house is a three bedroom, and the teen isn't moving out anytime soon. We already have 3 kids in one bedroom because of that, we have no room for another. My family would FREAK OUT. My mom has anxiety and flips out every time I'm pregnant. Like, has told me I can't have more because of her. Whatever. Biggest of these is DH is done. He has the stress of providing and he just doesn't feel he can handle more. So he keeps saying he's going to schedule a vasectomy. Sigh. It makes sense. I don't need another kid, I'm fine with being done. But I'm NOT fine with permanently preventing. Which makes very little sense, given our ages, lol. 

Also, I'm Catholic. I would not get sterilized. But DH is not Catholic, and my faith says it is okay for him therefore to do it, it wouldn't be a sin on my part, if that makes sense. But still...sigh. Right now we use condoms, again, not my choice (mine would be NFP) but not on my conscience either, according to my church. I hate them, they irritate me, even the non latex ones. But I don't complain, because it's better than a vasectomy. 

Basically, there is no real reason for me to but upset he's going to do this, and I'm not giving him grief about it, but I'm still sad about it. Really, that's the feeling. Sad. 



Aw Katie, I understand, I do.  After the last two miscarriages (one super traumatic / emergency) DH was out.  Then all my health stuff kicked in and I can see the wisdom in it. I admit I'm not sorry to never have another baby (I never was a baby person) but I am sad at the idea of not knowing more people, as their mama, that God might have had in The Plan, in His wisdom, kwim?  It's been a great adventure, handing that over to Him, and being blessed to meet them, equip them, know  them.  

But I will say, grandkids will (eventually) go a long way to healing that sadness.  I saw it first in a dear friend who is a few years older than me and I am seeing it now in my own life.  

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15 hours ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

Nobody is expected to know everything all the time. It's more about how we react when we gain some new (to us) understanding about others. 

I'm surprised when people don't know this one, on these forums, because we have discussed it a million times over the years that I've been here, but of course, I don't think it's realistic to expect everyone to read everything. But now you know why people always say it, when the opportunity arises: It's because they assume that the person is ignorant, not that the person doesn't care. You don't know that someone doesn't care until they tell you, but ignorance is fairly easy to spot.

I believe it was on this forum that I first heard it was "gypped" and not "jipped". I don't use the term any more but this is not something that is on the radar of the general public. Plenty of people I know IRL who would never use the phrases "Indian giver" or "off the reservation" because they aren't P.C. still use "jipped".

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I think there’s every real reason for you to be upset.

Just because they are upset differently doesn’t make their reason more real than yours.

I’d be really upset too. 

And I won’t rush to assure you that your feelings will pass. (Why do your feelings have to pass but everyone else gets to cement theirs in for all time?)

Over the years, I cannot count how often unknown women of all ages, but especially elderly women, commented on my family size with some form of deep sad regret for children they wish they’d had. Decades after their childbearing years were over. They tell me of vasectomies they regret. Adoptions they passed on. And while I’m standing in the grocery aisle mentally freaking out over tmi while politely smiling and herding children past them, it’s also obvious those women never really “got over it”. They just learned to endure the loss.  And I think that’s heartbreaking.

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Gypsy is still used in Europe because they are mostly being intentionally offensive - as in "we need to get rid of the filthy gypsies".  To be honest in the US there probably aren't any true "gypsies" so in everyday life you are unlikely to offend anyone if you slip up. It is an interesting thing at what point does a word become a word rather than a slur.

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8 hours ago, BlsdMama said:



Aw Katie, I understand, I do.  After the last two miscarriages (one super traumatic / emergency) DH was out.  Then all my health stuff kicked in and I can see the wisdom in it. I admit I'm not sorry to never have another baby (I never was a baby person) but I am sad at the idea of not knowing more people, as their mama, that God might have had in The Plan, in His wisdom, kwim?  It's been a great adventure, handing that over to Him, and being blessed to meet them, equip them, know  them.  

But I will say, grandkids will (eventually) go a long way to healing that sadness.  I saw it first in a dear friend who is a few years older than me and I am seeing it now in my own life.  

oh yes, I'm SUPER excited about someday being a Grandma!!!! I may move in with my poor kids, lol. 

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1 hour ago, kiwik said:

Gypsy is still used in Europe because they are mostly being intentionally offensive - as in "we need to get rid of the filthy gypsies".  To be honest in the US there probably aren't any true "gypsies" so in everyday life you are unlikely to offend anyone if you slip up. It is an interesting thing at what point does a word become a word rather than a slur.

 

Except for the Gypsies who identify as Gypsies. Some down in the Balkans do.

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5 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Except for the Gypsies who identify as Gypsies. Some down in the Balkans do.

 

There are Gypsies in the USA, but I don't know where.  I know there was a reality show about some of them and a wedding.

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