math for struggling dd9

[jkl]

(Cross posting from curriculum board)

I have posted about dd9 and math before.  She has OCD, sensory processing issues,fine motor delays, and ADHD inattentive type.  She is receiving therapy or medication for all of these issues.She has been tested for dyscaluclia and ASD but did not meet the criteria for either, though she has some symptoms of both (we may get her re-evaluated at some point in the near future because my gut is telling me we still don't have the whole picture).  Right now, I am trying to come with a plan for the summer/next year for math for her.  She does not know her facts, despite mastering them on Xtra math.  They simply didn't stick.  We tried R&S math and she could not keep the triplets straight.  We stopped and did some hands-on things (measuring, money, etc.) and worked through half of Math Lessons for a Living Education grade 2, which helped me to successfully teach her addition with regrouping (yay!!).  I don't really care for MLFLE, because I don't think it provides enough practice for her,. but she doesn't mind it  So, I'm looking for some advice about what to do next.  She will turn 10 near the beginning of the school year, so we are pretty far behind.   I'm considering just going on with the MLFLE grade 2 and maybe adding some Kumon books for more practice OR Trying Developmental math OR just dong Ronit Bird's stuff.  Does anyone have any advice?  I feel like we are falling more and more behind in math, and I'm unsure of what to do now.  Help! ?

 

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[Pen]

Don’t have experience with MLFLE. Generally if something is working stick with it. 

I don’t myself have good experience with Kumon. 

Ronit Bird looked good, but I never used it. 

No knowledge on Developmental math

I think abacus can be very helpful. 

MUS with its blocks was good here. And it doesn’t put grade level on books so Emotionally that can help  

I like some of the Critical Thinking Press math, Balance Math and Balance Benders type materials. Especially with adhd they mix it up  

We have found Khan Academy useful. 

And you might want to look at Beast Academy if they have 1st grade level available  if a whole other approach may help 

[Storygirl]

When we were homeschooling, I found CLE to be the most effective math program for my kids who were struggling with math (DS14 has dyscalculia, DD13 has dyslexia with comorbid math issues, and DD16 just finds math difficult). If I were going to go back and do it over, I would supplement it for DS14 to target his specific needs. But the short lessons with concepts broken into easy to understand bits, plus constant review, was a good method for my kids.

CLE does have a built in practice of math facts with flash cards and daily fact sheets. This is great, as long as you don't rely on that alone for mastering the facts. DD13 (dyslexic) was not able to learn her facts just by practicing them.

The truth is that some people never master their math facts, so, while it is good to keep at it, it is not the end of the world if they are never mastered. DD's dyslexia school allows use of calculators and multiplication charts and emphasizes that understanding the concepts and knowing how to use tools (calculators, etc) are more important than fact memorization.

You can create a folder or binder for math tools. In it you can keep a multiplication chart, a calculator, a number line, etc., as well as pages that list steps for certain types of problems, so that if they get stuck on how to do something, they can refer to the written steps.

You can have a daily time for practicing math facts, where these tools are not used. Maybe 5 or 10 minutes per day. Or do it 5 minutes per day, twice a day. The rest of the time, allow her to use her tools during the math lessons.

This is not cheating!! This is what an intervention specialist might do to help a child with math.

[PeterPan]

My two cents would be to assume the ASD and assume therefore that it's *part* of the problem. So when you are saying she can do it on one thing and not the next, that's an autism thing, that she's having trouble generalizing. If she's doing well *conceptually* with your problem and the issue is ONLY that it's not generalizing, then work on generalizing. So yes, I think Ronit Bird is awesome. So is stuff by Peggy Kaye, Marilyn Burns (the Math by All Means series, etc.). Love, love, love. But reality is you have to generalize. You have to make sure 2+2=4 EVERYWHERE. That means you do it in your curriculum and then with turtles and then with cooking and then with measuring and then with time and then with 5 or 6 other manipulatives and then in other rooms of the house and other locations (the car, stores), till 2+2=4 EVERYWHERE.

I haven't looked much at MLFLE, but if she likes it that's huge. I would continue it but have time each day where you spend 10 minutes and work on generalizing. 

As far as the behind thing, um, I can tell you that the answer I get from professionals on my ds' team (private behaviorist, IEP team, etc.) aren't as freaky worried about that as what we as moms are or would be in our homeschooling mindset. My behaviorist wants us focused on language, because you have to have language for the math. You have to have language to stay calm to do the math and say you need breaks. Math is not the only important thing in their lives, kwim? Some people are very status-y about their math, viewing math as a statement of doing well. You can do a good job and not be making radical progress in math. My ds is diagnosed with the SLD, but even more I just think it's not part of his world or his reality. For him to sit down and do 4th grade math problems (which is what he is by age, a rising 4th grader) is as odd and foreign as asking him to do calculus or me to build a ship to go to the moon. Not useful, not in his world. Or, as SWB puts it in her book, not fitting his maturity level and what he's READY for. Like it fits his IQ, but it doesn't fit his MATURITY. 

I don't think our grade level system gives a rip about maturity or what makes sense. And I've decided I've got to focus on what is really important and maybe we'll have a bit less of things that don't make sense. And what my behaviorist is saying is that the kids get a maturity bump around 10-12 and then it's all there and they just are ready to sit down and do it all the way, like going right into a 6th grade math book. And you KNOW you've heard the stories. It's just that they're poo-pooed so much that we're like yeah that's hogwash. Well for a lot of kids it's not ideal. But is it POSSIBLE that for some kids with developmental delays it's actually a good trajectory? That's what my behaviorist is saying. For real. Like when I tell her I'm doing 2-3 hours of language a day and nothing else, she's like bless you sainted angel, do it, the math will come with maturity. And we HAVE heard these stories. 

I'm not saying be negligent. I'm just saying developmental delays are real. I'm gonna work on what is MOST IMPORTANT and not sweat things I can't fix. I have a Rainbow Resource cart full of new math manipulatives they just got in that I'm super psyched about. We'll keep going at it, lots of ways. We'll keep going with RonitBird, Peggy Kaye, and Marilyn Burns stuff. Just lots of ways, going at it, lots of contexts. When it's ready to click, it will click. I came across a couple printed workbooks that have very few problems on a page. I think having *something* of that is good. It's another context to use it in.

[jkl]

14 hours ago, Storygirl said:

When we were homeschooling, I found CLE to be the most effective math program for my kids who were struggling with math (DS14 has dyscalculia, DD13 has dyslexia with comorbid math issues, and DD16 just finds math difficult). If I were going to go back and do it over, I would supplement it for DS14 to target his specific needs. But the short lessons with concepts broken into easy to understand bits, plus constant review, was a good method for my kids.

CLE does have a built in practice of math facts with flash cards and daily fact sheets. This is great, as long as you don't rely on that alone for mastering the facts. DD13 (dyslexic) was not able to learn her facts just by practicing them.

The truth is that some people never master their math facts, so, while it is good to keep at it, it is not the end of the world if they are never mastered. DD's dyslexia school allows use of calculators and multiplication charts and emphasizes that understanding the concepts and knowing how to use tools (calculators, etc) are more important than fact memorization.

You can create a folder or binder for math tools. In it you can keep a multiplication chart, a calculator, a number line, etc., as well as pages that list steps for certain types of problems, so that if they get stuck on how to do something, they can refer to the written steps.

You can have a daily time for practicing math facts, where these tools are not used. Maybe 5 or 10 minutes per day. Or do it 5 minutes per day, twice a day. The rest of the time, allow her to use her tools during the math lessons.

This is not cheating!! This is what an intervention specialist might do to help a child with math.

Thanks for this.  My oldest uses CLE and I really love it for him.  I tried it with dd last year and she was overwhelmed by it--too many problems and it moved too quickly for her.

14 hours ago, PeterPan said:

My two cents would be to assume the ASD and assume therefore that it's *part* of the problem. So when you are saying she can do it on one thing and not the next, that's an autism thing, that she's having trouble generalizing. If she's doing well *conceptually* with your problem and the issue is ONLY that it's not generalizing, then work on generalizing. So yes, I think Ronit Bird is awesome. So is stuff by Peggy Kaye, Marilyn Burns (the Math by All Means series, etc.). Love, love, love. But reality is you have to generalize. You have to make sure 2+2=4 EVERYWHERE. That means you do it in your curriculum and then with turtles and then with cooking and then with measuring and then with time and then with 5 or 6 other manipulatives and then in other rooms of the house and other locations (the car, stores), till 2+2=4 EVERYWHERE.

I haven't looked much at MLFLE, but if she likes it that's huge. I would continue it but have time each day where you spend 10 minutes and work on generalizing. 

As far as the behind thing, um, I can tell you that the answer I get from professionals on my ds' team (private behaviorist, IEP team, etc.) aren't as freaky worried about that as what we as moms are or would be in our homeschooling mindset. My behaviorist wants us focused on language, because you have to have language for the math. You have to have language to stay calm to do the math and say you need breaks. Math is not the only important thing in their lives, kwim? Some people are very status-y about their math, viewing math as a statement of doing well. You can do a good job and not be making radical progress in math. My ds is diagnosed with the SLD, but even more I just think it's not part of his world or his reality. For him to sit down and do 4th grade math problems (which is what he is by age, a rising 4th grader) is as odd and foreign as asking him to do calculus or me to build a ship to go to the moon. Not useful, not in his world. Or, as SWB puts it in her book, not fitting his maturity level and what he's READY for. Like it fits his IQ, but it doesn't fit his MATURITY. 

I don't think our grade level system gives a rip about maturity or what makes sense. And I've decided I've got to focus on what is really important and maybe we'll have a bit less of things that don't make sense. And what my behaviorist is saying is that the kids get a maturity bump around 10-12 and then it's all there and they just are ready to sit down and do it all the way, like going right into a 6th grade math book. And you KNOW you've heard the stories. It's just that they're poo-pooed so much that we're like yeah that's hogwash. Well for a lot of kids it's not ideal. But is it POSSIBLE that for some kids with developmental delays it's actually a good trajectory? That's what my behaviorist is saying. For real. Like when I tell her I'm doing 2-3 hours of language a day and nothing else, she's like bless you sainted angel, do it, the math will come with maturity. And we HAVE heard these stories. 

I'm not saying be negligent. I'm just saying developmental delays are real. I'm gonna work on what is MOST IMPORTANT and not sweat things I can't fix. I have a Rainbow Resource cart full of new math manipulatives they just got in that I'm super psyched about. We'll keep going at it, lots of ways. We'll keep going with RonitBird, Peggy Kaye, and Marilyn Burns stuff. Just lots of ways, going at it, lots of contexts. When it's ready to click, it will click. I came across a couple printed workbooks that have very few problems on a page. I think having *something* of that is good. It's another context to use it in.

Oh my goodness, thank you so much for this.  This really makes sense.  I just get myself so worked up--not because of anything she is or is not doing so much as because I feel like I am not helping her in the way she needs to be helped!  We have had a tough year with our evaluations and therapy and appointments.  I think I need to take a deep breath and a break ? 

[Guest]

Jkl, please don't accept generalities as a given! While some may think that whatever applies to one child on the spectrum applies to all, this is simply not the case.

I will admit that I did not read all the replies, but what you have described in your first post does not sound uncommon for a child with ADHD with possible working memory and processing speed issues. I don't know why autism was put on the table here! I just want to say, do what makes sense for your child.

Sorry I don't have any suggestions as these have not been issues we have dealt with here. I would suggest looking up old threads on this board.

[Pen]

Also I’d suggest you keep going over summer so she doesn’t lose progress she’s made.