Which math for these disabilities?

[koko]

Hello all, 

My youngest son, who will be 9th grade this fall, has severe dyslexia, short term memory deficits, and speech/language deficits. While reading/writing are challenging, math is hands-down his most difficult subject. We completed Math u See Zeta this past school year (without the blocks) and, while often doing math with him is like living the movie Groundhog Day ? , he did better than when we previously used Teaching Textbooks. We need to head into pre-algebra. Not sure if MUS is the best fit for him, so asking here--any particular math curriculum you all have found useful in working with your kiddos with similar disabilities? The IEP team I met with recommended emphasizing the operations themselves rather than repeatedly trying to teach him concepts (he's just never gonna be able to conceptualize/retain them); in other words, as much as is reasonable, teach him how to do it and don't worry that he doesn't understand why it needs to be done. Although math was difficult for his three brothers (who have now graduated), I am at a loss at this particular point as to where to go from here to get him through high school math. He does plan on college, but is headed probably for film or music. Suggestions? Thanks in advance!

Jenni

[kbutton]

I do not have a kiddo with dyscalculia, but it sounds like maybe that is what is going on with your son. There are some really good past threads on here about it, but many people here have experience with improving it.

It sounds like your son needs something that has consistent review like CLE (Christian Light Education). 

If your son is not going to use math in the future past getting through college requirements, propping him up and getting him through may be valid, but if he could understand numbers a little better, it might help with life math (not sure if he has trouble with money, time, etc.). That is one reason to check out past dyscalculia threads. A lot of people here use the Ronit Bird books.

[PeterPan]

What was your reasoning on using MUS without the blocks? He thinks they're baby-ish or doesn't like them? Sometimes when kids resist manipulatives, it's because of visual processing deficits. They're not visualizing the math. A good manipulative is confusing at first, so if someone is already frustrated, has language deficits, and hits something frustrating, they might be able express how they feel and might not have strategies to work through that. At the big dyslexia school in town, they use Zones of Regulation with ALL their kids, because they know people who are frustrated a lot are having a lot of emotions flying.

So that was actually three suggestions.

-get his vision checked by a developmental optometrist to make sure there's not a component there. Not a cure for dyslexia but an additional vision-based problem. It happens.

-make sure you're teaching self-regulation strategies like Zones of Regulation, so he can tackle things and handle his frustration

-consider working aggressively on the working memory deficits. Those are the slam dunk, most easily remediatable thing on your list. If you wanna change his life in short order, work on working memory. What have you done for it so far? We can give you suggestions and you can google site search for threads.

-consider bringing in Hands-On Equations, which will be a physical, manipulative-based introduction to pre-algebra. Also look at their new Hands-On Equations Fractions sets. They have two levels of the materials, one that focuses on fractions and one that bumps them into the world of algebra. Fractions are THE DOWNFALL of people who struggle in algebra, so spending more time there is NOT excessive. http://www.borenson.com 

Now for the language piece. What is going on there? How is he with word problems? My ds has SLD math and the language disability. For him it's a challenge to make the math mean something. He has enough delays that he doesn't even really have a reason to DO the math. Like it's kind of not relevant to his world, not motivating. But also there's the language piece. So having 3 "of" something didn't mean anything to him, etc. To make math interesting you need word problems, but word problems are language. Even if tech or assistant reads the word problem, he still needs to understand the language. Language helps with self-advocacy (saying how you feel, saying why it's frustrating) as well as being able to say what the problem is, what information you were given, what you're trying to solve, etc.

What some people do is to do MORE word problems, not less. How would that go for you if you did that? The rising 9th is rough. I'm not sure if there's much pre-algebra that is word problem driven. There is an algebra sequence that is discovery driven. For some people that really works. If you're wanting an alternative to the rote, get 'er done (which I can't tell if you're on board with), then something like Discovering Algebra would be the ticket. And before that you'd be doing things like Hands-On Equations and Crossing the River with Dogs. 

If you want a more get 'er done approach, you're looking at CLE, R&S (which doesn't go much farther). Ronit Bird is brilliant, but I'm not sure if her Overcoming book goes into algebra topics. I'm too lazy to go look and my ds isn't there. You can probably see the toc on amazon. You can also write Ronit Bird through her FB page, which you can find through her website. She's a lovely person so you could just write her and ask. 

Is there a reason you aren't going back to TT? If you were happy with it, then why not go back? TT is kind of funny, because people sometimes think it's working and then they realize their particular dc didn't have it really stick. That working memory is the short term memory of the brain that facilitates things going into long-term. No matter what methodology you use, you really want to be getting that working memory built up. 

Do you know how to google site search? You go to your google bar and type in the terms plus site:welltrainedmind.com  So for instance you might like to search "heathermomster math site:welltrainedmind.com" 

 

[koko]

@kbutton thank you so much for your response! He actually does not have dyscalculia. I am looking into CLE per your recommendation. Have never heard of Ronit Bird although we have been homeschooling for many years; will look into her website as well. 

@PeterPanThank you as well, especially for taking such time to answer me. You are correct, he did not like using the MUS blocks. To answer your recommendations, he did have his vision checked by a developmental ophthamologist during his IEP testing; he handles frustrations appropriately; and re memory deficits, we've mostly concentrated on reading comprehension. He has shown some improvement this year in math memory, for instance, being able to remember some times tables, as a matter of course without specific attention to it. Again, the recommendation from his IEP team was to provide a calculator and assist him with being able to master operations rather than concepts. I do explain concepts as we begin a lesson, and as I feel it necessary for him to complete assignments. I've bookmarked the Hands On Equations page so that I can look into it further. 

We stopped using TT because ds felt it was too confusing for him. MUS was simpler for him, and offered better review, and he felt more comfortable with it. It may be worth sticking with MUS and starting the new year fresh with the blocks as we head into pre-algebra. 

Thank you again ladies, and anyone else with suggestions, I am eager to hear them ? 

Jenni

 

[1shortmomto4]

I'm going to suggest sticking with MUS - it was working.  I've been working with a kiddo that struggles with dyslexia and memory issues and suffers that Friday to Monday brain drain - or at least did - especially in the 7-9 grade years when the "horror"mones kick in and really make things fun and challenging.  I don't feel as though MUS goes into the deep deep trenches of concepts but does great at helping them get the operation done and offers solutions to make it easier which you can easily choose to do or not.  I've used Hands on Equations and it is awesome and actually has a word problem practice - if you buy the complete program.  Homeschoolbuyers coop will run periodic specials.  I had no idea they had the fraction option now but highly recommend.  You might use HOE over the summer.  Another little gem is made by Sonlight - they have a Mathtacular level that covers word problems specifically.  Yes, the story on the DVD is a bit hokey but the student learns how to break down the word problems and then solve.  The book gradually gets harder - by the end of the book I was hoping to never see another word problem but my ds definitely retained the skills in how to solve them - as I saw him use those skills through MUS Alg. 2 this year.  I've used MUS Alg 1, 2 and Geometry for another one of my kids and she retained the info (more than other programs) and it translated into the skills needed to place high on the CC math placement test.  It just seems to be a great program that provides a sound foundation without overwhelming the student - especially the struggling student.

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

when the "horror"mones kick in and really make things fun and challenging.

Now I need to go look at Mathtacular!

[kbutton]

I read your post multiple times as saying he did better with TT and not MUS, lol!

If he's doing well with MUS, I would stick with it. I would also consider adding in the blocks--it can take more memory to manipulate them at first, then I think the idea is that once you become familiar with the meaning of each block and become fluent, then the blocks actually help ease the memory issues.

My younger son used the rods for Primer, and then we switched to Miquon, which uses c-rods. Once he got the concept of each rod as a quantity, he could calculate with them super, super fast. Eventually he would just touch the rods, not even bother to manipulate them. Eventually he looked at them or simply pictured them in his head. It was very powerful. 

I don't know what manipulatives MUS uses over time, but this is another option if he does well with the curriculum, but you need more/additional options: Bosse Tiles from Nasco. This page has other kinds of tiles as well, but you can read about why the Bosse ones are a bit different. I link to this page because it also has links to activity guides that go with the tiles. https://www.enasco.com/c/Education-Supplies/Math/Algebra-Pre-Algebra/Algebra-Tiles

My older son used these tiles only a little bit, but they were crucial in breaking through some aspects of understanding variables--that x could be like a real number, etc. http://www.educationunboxed.com/ also has some algebra activities you can do with rods as well.

There is also a visual algebra text if you think it would help with memory and picturing things: https://books.google.com/books/about/Visual_Approach_to_Algebra.html?id=bsAEAAAACAAJ&source=kp_cover  I think Heathermomster posted a .pdf link at one point, but I can't find it right now.

I recommend all of this because I really do think that if he can understand concepts but not hold onto them in his memory, then the manipulatives are a possible way to shore up his memory to handle the load. I think that is at the heart of what the school recommends with the calculator. However, not all memory problems stem from the same place, nor does every student respond to every method for helping memory out.

I'm really just trying to offer another way to skin the cat vs. contradict the recommendations, so please do not take this as overruling your own judgment call about the child in front of you.

[koko]

@1shortmomto4thank you SO much!  That is affirming to me. I will look into Mathtacular too. 

@kbuttonmore excellent suggestions ?  And I don't feel like you're contradicting anything. Let's put everything out there and then I can sift through and see what seems to be the best fit! 

[Heathermomster]

10 hours ago, kbutton said:

I read your post multiple times as saying he did better with TT and not MUS, lol!

If he's doing well with MUS, I would stick with it. I would also consider adding in the blocks--it can take more memory to manipulate them at first, then I think the idea is that once you become familiar with the meaning of each block and become fluent, then the blocks actually help ease the memory issues.

My younger son used the rods for Primer, and then we switched to Miquon, which uses c-rods. Once he got the concept of each rod as a quantity, he could calculate with them super, super fast. Eventually he would just touch the rods, not even bother to manipulate them. Eventually he looked at them or simply pictured them in his head. It was very powerful. 

I don't know what manipulatives MUS uses over time, but this is another option if he does well with the curriculum, but you need more/additional options: Bosse Tiles from Nasco. This page has other kinds of tiles as well, but you can read about why the Bosse ones are a bit different. I link to this page because it also has links to activity guides that go with the tiles. https://www.enasco.com/c/Education-Supplies/Math/Algebra-Pre-Algebra/Algebra-Tiles

My older son used these tiles only a little bit, but they were crucial in breaking through some aspects of understanding variables--that x could be like a real number, etc. http://www.educationunboxed.com/ also has some algebra activities you can do with rods as well.

There is also a visual algebra text if you think it would help with memory and picturing things: https://books.google.com/books/about/Visual_Approach_to_Algebra.html?id=bsAEAAAACAAJ&source=kp_cover  I think Heathermomster posted a .pdf link at one point, but I can't find it right now.

I recommend all of this because I really do think that if he can understand concepts but not hold onto them in his memory, then the manipulatives are a possible way to shore up his memory to handle the load. I think that is at the heart of what the school recommends with the calculator. However, not all memory problems stem from the same place, nor does every student respond to every method for helping memory out.

I'm really just trying to offer another way to skin the cat vs. contradict the recommendations, so please do not take this as overruling your own judgment call about the child in front of you.

https://www.mathedpage.org/attc/attc.html

I drew my math strength from a number of places while working with my dyscalculiac son.  Depending upon your own math background, these resources may or may not benefit you.  I use math curriculum as a scope and sequence with problem sets.

• Overcoming Difficulties with Number Seriously, start here.  The second half of this book is amazing.  
• a standard Pre-Algebra  textbook by McDougal-Littell
• Hands-on Equations 
• Dragon Box app
• MUS rods for integer math
• James Tanton This man is my teen idol.
• Khan Academy
• TI-15 calculator

For Algebra 1A and 1B, we used half of Foerster's Algebra and half of Lial's Beginning Algebra 8th ed I think.  DS followed with MUS Geometry and MUS Algebra 2.  DS never understood fractions until Chemistry and graphing never coalesced until Algebra 2 and Physics with Algebra.  We also used math mnemonics to aid memorization of steps.

ETA:  I dislike MUS because Demme doesn't use appropriate math language and his dry erase board management is crowded, messy and confusing to watch.

[Crimson Wife]

One thing that I really like for developing algebraic thinking in a less abstract way is Balance Benders from Critical Thinking Press. My SN child is nowhere remotely near ready for it as she's still working on addition & subtraction. However, when she's older, I believe she will find Balance Benders easier to understand than traditional algebraic equations because of the visual aspect. The math isn't any different using circles, rectangles, or stars rather than letters as variables. But I really think it would make the concept of "whatever you do to one side of the equation, you have to do to the other side" and so on easier for her to grasp.

[koko]

@Crimson Wifethank you!