MLM and women

[Jean in Newcastle]

What is Plexus?  

[Katy]

3 minutes ago, Thatboyofmine said:

A few people have mentioned Avon.  My mom uses Avon and her rep is a man.  She’s used him since I was a toddler probably.   He’s not pushy at all.  I don’t think  I’ve ever heard of any Avon rep being pushy.  What is the difference with that company?  Is there no minimum to meet, maybe? 

 

I suspect the difference is that the company has been around long enough that there are no delusions you're going to become a multimillionaire from it.  You can buy okay makeup, cheap perfume, and skin so soft from them, you're not going to change your lifestyle selling from them.

[LuvToRead]

4 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

What is Plexus?  

Apparently it is a wonder supplement  that cures everything while making you lose weight.  They are famous for the "pink drink" , a powder you put into water and drink 30 minutes before eating.  They also sell probiotics, and now skin care.  Here is the link:   Plexus    I have had many friends over the years sell stuff through MLM"s, but Plexus has been the worst in terms of pushy salespeople.  I have one friend I avoid because of it.

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, marbel said:

 

Right. I agree with you.  But there are other reasons.

Some of us have no current marketable skills because the choices we (husband and I) made - with the information we had at the time we made them - left me surprised and unemployable years after we made them.  ETA: I said this wrong. I have loads of skills. I just haven't been paid to use them in 20 years. That's the problem. Not lack of skills, lack of paid employment. 

I worked for 21  years before I had kids. When I left work, and started homeschooling, my life looked like I would never want, or need, to go back to work. Surprise, 20 years later I could use some income and would like to work, but even with a good resume that shows all the skills I've used in both paid and volunteer work and homeschooling, and all the skills classes I've taken recently, my work experience is too out of date. Two temp agencies said "sorry, our clients want someone with more current experience." Other places don't respond, or say "sorry, position has been filled."  

Recently I've met quite a few women in my situation.  We are not "displaced housewives" - we have spouses who are providing, just maybe not quite enough.  (There are programs in my state to help displaced housewives get training, etc.)  

Now I'm going for volunteer work to see if that will lead to something.  Because I know if someone would talk to me, I could get hired for that classroom assistant, or admin, or similar low-level jobs I've been looking at.

ETA: Wanted to add, I don't take it personally.  Why would an employer take a chance on me when they have 10 resumes from people with more recent experience, etc.?  

But it was my choice to stop working for years. I was busy homeschooling, which was also our (husband's and my) choice.  As they say, it seemed like a good idea at the time. Now, whenever the subject comes up with a young stay-home mom, I encourage them to keep up their skills and keep their hand in employment in some way, just in case. But really I have no one to blame but myself.  It's not society's fault I checked out for 20 years. 

BTW despite being asked, I have not dipped my toes into the MIL world.  ?

I don't want to say you don't have any personal responsibility for your situation. Obviously we all make our beds to some extent and we all have to live with the consequences of our decisions and our luck and figure out how to navigate the world as it is.

But... I think you didn't make your decision in a vacuum. Cultural expectations that it would be a positive thing for you, as a woman and mother, to stay home and oversee the house and the kids, including their education, are part of what led to you doing that. And a man benefitted from that - presumably your dh had less work to do around the house, less worries in terms of the childrearing - and the child ferrying around, which is half the work of modern parenting. Society benefited too - the community got kids who were well cared for and educated who won't be a burden on society in any way and will also contribute. And all of that was gotten in part by telling you that your contributions were good for you as well. And they may have been - I certainly hope so. But then when you're ready to go back to work society says sorry, we don't really value your work at all and you're unhireable.

I just think it's frustrating. For all of us who are homeschool parents, I think we're in a special situation to some extent - we've all mostly been out of the workforce for many, many years, which is genuinely a little different, though still problematic. But I see it with mothers who took off for the first kid, then had the second, then were ready to go back as soon as kid 2 was in preschool... but it's already too long. It's like, good grief. Society doesn't provide decent, safe childcare, encourages mothers to see this as some precious time that we'll never get back. But then when you do it, it's like, you're ruined.

[gardenmom5]

11 hours ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

 

Some of these women don't have marketable skills because they didn't get a college prep education in the first place (not all homes are equal, and neither are public schools), or because they had to go to work right out of high school and couldn't even get vocational or technical training. Some of them who HAD education and skills, lost them not due to negligence or ignorance but because they had to take care of somebody for a long, long time...

We need some reform in education, childcare, elder care, and health care if we want all the women to have the privilege of gaining skills and education, and keeping them up to date.

btdt.  i have learning disabilities and grew up with mentally ill parents. (my father depression - killed himself when I was 12.  my mother schizophrenic) despite both of my parents attending uni (mother 1 1/2 years - first one in her family to even go to college. her father was a mechanic, her mother a store clerk), my desire to even be a decent student, while dealing with the many challenges of LDs, was completely undermined (yes - undermined).  if I was having a hard time -instead of helping me be successful - I heard about how unreasonable the teacher was to want me to do ___.   my brother ended up joining hte military for the training - and paying for college.  still took him far longer, but he did eventually get an EE.  he has the same opinion as me about how undermined we were.  he's said if he'd had himself as a father - he thinks he'd have a phd.  needless to say - my siblings and I had a very different attitude towards raising kids and valuing education than our mother.

what needs to happen before "reform" can even begin to help, is a change in attitude and to value education. I've read enough articles, and spoken with enough people, about there are areas where education is "frowned" upon.  I've also read articles by liberal parents who've volunteered in the school - and tried to help make things  better for the lower income kids - and been thwarted by "the school system".  I know former teachers who've said the same thing.

until that attitude changes - program changes are just window dressing.

10 hours ago, Excelsior! Academy said:

Dh and I were invited to a MLM party for a drink made of acai berries.  When we were shown the hereiswhywearesoawesome and youneedtojoinrightnow video, it struck me that the claims of the promised downlines weren't numerically possible.  After 3 or 4 levels you would potentially have x number of people under you.  The number of people in the company projected for the future of the company would have been more than the number of people alive in the United States at the time.  

can you say "pyramid scheme"?     a friend got into one and invited me to her "pyramid scheme intro" before even telling me about the product. . . . she just wanted to get as many people in under her as she could.  at the time, she was living in a 6500sqft mcmansion and her dh was retiring from his "tech company" job in his 30's.

2 hours ago, marbel said:

 

By whom?  

In a way, my husband "pays" me.  I'm sure that sounds terrible.  And I don't mean that I get an allowance or anything like that. But the money he earns is our money, not his alone. I am free to use it for my own needs and some wants, within budget constraints.  So in that respect I am being paid.  

dh's attitude our entire marriage has been he works to pay the bills to support what I'm doing with our kids.

 

eta: I've never understood the "her money,, his money" . . .  um single household, I feel like you're supposed to be a team?  all money put in the same pot.  

and I have a dd who makes  more than her dh. 

2 hours ago, SereneHome said:

Argghhh, my FB was going crazy over the last few days bc of some major YL convention/gala/event and evidently one of the moms was being "honored".  This same woman posted about a month ago that her husband was retiring at 39 bc of how well their YL income is.  I think it's great if it worked for them, but I wonder how many people are going to get in trouble financially thinking that they can become independently wealthy selling YL...

and how many people are under them that are going to end up dropping out, which would affect their income as everyone under them is paying a cut of their profits to those above them.

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, SamanthaCarter said:

I hate this with a fiery passion. I think that if feminists before us had known this is the way it would go, they would have changed strategy somehow. I think wealthy feminists of today don’t have a good handle on this because of nannies and personal chefs and admin assistants. 

I think feminists "back in the day" envisioned a world where women could break the glass ceiling and where housework was genuinely divided up. But it's the glass ceiling breaking that you can actually see and that became a bigger focus and still kind of is. Lean in, everyone. Or something. Getting men to pull their weight in housekeeping and child raising is so quiet and personal and harder to see.

[gardenmom5]

12 minutes ago, Thatboyofmine said:

A few people have mentioned Avon.  My mom uses Avon and her rep is a man.  She’s used him since I was a toddler probably.   He’s not pushy at all.  I don’t think  I’ve ever heard of any Avon rep being pushy.  What is the difference with that company?  Is there no minimum to meet, maybe? 

I"ve seen videos of a guy who does very well selling tupperware - apparently, people will buy stuff from his just because his schtick is so good.  he does an over-the-top 60's housewife.  heavy make-up, awful wig, and mumu.  and that's just the costume he wears . . .

[Farrar]

I'm always so grateful reading these threads that I don't have a lot of pushy MLM friends, by the way. I have had several friends go the MLM route over the years, but mostly it's at least been for products that I thought were decent - no one I know is selling essential oils or miracle nonsense cures or lose weight fast crap. More like Usborne books and Avon and Lularoe and so forth, which, at least they're decent products.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My husband is much more susceptible to this sort of thing than I am.  (Not so unrelatedly, he's also much more susceptible to scams.)   He came home from an event so excited because of essential oils and  he's a nurse.  I'm like, "Really?  You really think that sniffing some peppermint oil is going to cure my central nervous system?"

I don't do FB so perhaps I miss a lot of the MLM pushing because of it. 

I used to have a friend who sold Discovery Toys.  I like their toys.  But I got most of my Discovery Toy games from thrift shops.  I also had a friend who sold Usborne books but I got the few Usborne books that I have from our homeschool consignment shop. 

I think that I had a lot more friends into the MLM stuff in my 20's and 30's. 

[OH_Homeschooler]

12 hours ago, J-rap said:

I wonder if MLM's are different in a small town.  A couple of my friends are casual MLM salespeople, but they've never pressured me, not ever once.  It's completely separate from our friendships.  During the long, cold prairie winters when nothing else is going on, lots of women around here actually enjoy going to a Pampered Chef event and getting free food and then spending the evening talking to their friends ? and maybe buying one item for a gift.  For my friends who do this, it's more just a fun hobby and they earn a little Christmas money.  No guilt, no pressure.

Maybe this is unusual, but I haven't had a bad experience with my friends who do this.  I would never do it myself though.

I remember when Avon was popular when I first began working during college, in 1979.  A woman at my workplace sold Avon products, and I thought it was fun to order a couple of skin care products.

If I felt like I was being pressured, I'd walk away.  

 

 

The thing is, the new MLMs are all about social media sales. There's no in-person party. It's all about guilting your list of FB "friends" over and over again. And messaging people you bullied back in high school out of the blue as if you were BFFs, before launching into your sales/recruitment pitch. At least there is a redeeming social quality when it comes to the old Avon/Pampered Chef party. Not now with Plexus and LuLaRoe and oils and so on.

[Julie Smith]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet. 

But John Oliver did a very nice piece on MLM's. 

 

[gardenmom5]

42 minutes ago, LuvToRead said:

Apparently it is a wonder supplement  that cures everything while making you lose weight.  They are famous for the "pink drink" , a powder you put into water and drink 30 minutes before eating.  They also sell probiotics, and now skin care.  Here is the link:   Plexus    I have had many friends over the years sell stuff through MLM"s, but Plexus has been the worst in terms of pushy salespeople.  I have one friend I avoid because of it.

reminds me of reliv, or advocare.   I had to search really hard to find what was in advocare supplements. (dh asked me to. someone in his networking group sells it.)  they both use cheap molecular forms of vitamins and minerals.  complete and utter crap.

[gardenmom5]

I wish I could find it . . .  almost live was a seattle sitcom modeled after snl.  they did a skit on scary bosses.   box of snakes, shards of glass, etc. . . . the scariest was "have you heard the good news about amway?"  (or insert what other mlm sends people running away.)

[SereneHome]

Another thing that irks me about MLM is their whole "why do you want to work for a company where CEOs get all the money, come work for us and all the money will be yours"!

Again, I think it's so so dangerous bc there are sooooo many people who either don't make a lot or actually end up in debt - either by buying the product or paying for convention trips, etc. 

 

[J-rap]

20 minutes ago, OH_Homeschooler said:

 

The thing is, the new MLMs are all about social media sales. There's no in-person party. It's all about guilting your list of FB "friends" over and over again. And messaging people you bullied back in high school out of the blue as if you were BFFs, before launching into your sales/recruitment pitch. At least there is a redeeming social quality when it comes to the old Avon/Pampered Chef party. Not now with Plexus and LuLaRoe and oils and so on.

Yeah, that's sad.  I'm not familiar with any of those newer ones you mentioned.  In fact, I think the only ones I've had experience with are Avon and Pampered Chef.

[OH_Homeschooler]

7 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

Another thing that irks me about MLM is their whole "why do you want to work for a company where CEOs get all the money, come work for us and all the money will be yours"!

Again, I think it's so so dangerous bc there are sooooo many people who either don't make a lot or actually end up in debt - either by buying the product or paying for convention trips, etc. 

 

 

Or being forced by their uplines to put all their profits back into buying more product. 

[SereneHome]

52 minutes ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

I don’t know which I dislike more—YL or Plexus.  At the moment I think it’s YL because all the convention photos are on my FB feed.

I know one of the YL high ranking sellers.  She really did retire herself and her husband, and built a huge and expensive house.  She really is debt free now. They’re well into a mid six figure income and everyone in YL will recognize her name(I don’t want to give too much away).  

Here’s what she doesn’t say:  No one locally was really into essential oils when she started so she had no competition.  She also had HUGE name recognition in the state Christian and homeschooling community prior to YL, and was able to build on that.  Her success is not replicable, especially now that the EO market is saturated, but her and her downline keep touting that there’s hundreds of thousands of dollars to be made and the income is residual and can be passed down to your children.  And sadly I know people who have spent money that don’t have based on that promise.

 

Your entire post is about 90% similar to what I see from one woman on my FB feed. 

[LucyStoner]

MLMs sell the idea of being self employed and a business owner.  That’s their main product- telling the customers (because their customers are the reps) that they now own a business.  Malarkey.  

I run an actual side business.  Accounting in a niche...so definitely not a high pressure sales thing.  Clients usually find me before I find them.  I wish I could work more, and lately I have been due to my husband losing his job.  

I was just recruited to apply for a Accounting Consultant position.  It’s a non-profit that serves non-profits with professional services and capacity building.  It’s really an ideal position for me, would allow me to train people at a lot of non-profits and make a great impact. It could lead to bigger and better things for me...if I could work FT.  But I can’t.  Why? Because I have two autistic sons who need a lot of scaffolding during the day.  Homeschooling was an accident for us.  Not a choice.  

I don’t expect the government to pay me for staying home. It would be nice however if the government would put some of what I save the public by taking care of my sons needs IN TO MY SOCIAL SECURITY ACCOUNT as SS credits.  When I was working FT, if I had died my husband would have received close to $2000 a month which would go a lot further than the $700 and change they would get if I died now.  Am I going to die before my kids are 19?  Probably not, thank goodness but our culture literally reinforces the idea that caregiving as no value beyond your family and that’s simply untrue.  These things matter. 

[Wheres Toto]

2 hours ago, Thatboyofmine said:

A few people have mentioned Avon.  My mom uses Avon and her rep is a man.  She’s used him since I was a toddler probably.   He’s not pushy at all.  I don’t think  I’ve ever heard of any Avon rep being pushy.  What is the difference with that company?  Is there no minimum to meet, maybe? 

 

I used to sell Avon and they never had minimums, you didn't have to keep stock on hand (although you could), and the start up costs were pretty low.  I'm sure that all makes a big difference in how pressured the salespeople feel.  I was one of those people who just put booklets out in the breakroom at work and took orders from those who wanted it.

[LucyStoner]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

I wish I could find it . . .  almost live was a seattle sitcom modeled after snl.  they did a skit on scary bosses.   box of snakes, shards of glass, etc. . . . the scariest was "have you heard the good news about amway?"  (or insert what other mlm sends people running away.)

 

Almost Live was the best.  Pike or Pine? is permanently etched in my memory and it’s still very true.  At least a few times a month I find myself in a discussion with people and someone is trying to remember if a certain business is on Pike or Pine.  ?

 

[gardenmom5]

4 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

 

Almost Live was the best.  

 

park by sound . . .

[Catwoman]

8 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

Ummm . . . is there anyone else who doesn't know anybody who's into MLM? I don't know a single person. And in the past I've only known two, and one was from my childhood. A friend of my parents who I barely remember. The other was a friend of DH's, but that was back in the 1990s. Both were male. Maybe it's because I'm an introvert and live under a rock?

ETA: When I worked there was a woman who sold Avon, but she wasn't pushy at all. She'd leave the books in the break room and if someone wanted anything they'd let her know.

 

I know a lot of SAHMs, but none of them are into MLM — or if they are, they’re being very secretive about it. ?

[Bluegoat]

I've known men that do the, often with their wife.  One was, I think, into Amway or something similar, the other Maleleuka.  .  In some way their profiles were similar to the SAHMs - one was at one time a SAHD and he and his wife both did contract work.  The other was retired (I think the wife was as well, but I'm not sure.)

[LarlaB]

 

2 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

The post reads more like, "I have a problem" than "they have a problem" in a sense. Don't let it become your problem. If they push something, unfollow. If they do it in person, maybe downgrade their friendship status to acquaintance. Spend less time with them. Distance yourself. I know you know that you can do that... I'm just saying don't waste your energy on what you see as their problem.

 

It is less having a problem than I don’t know how to solve and more musing about a larger, more systemic problem I am seeing.

I hate to watch friends get sucked into MLM lies/hype.  It isn’t a solid foundation or real in a “building a small business” because it’s not actually yours nor can you do much beyond sell.  You aren’t your own boss- you decide only how often you feel like working is all.  You are padding someone else’s pocket and working someone else’s plan.  You are captive to the rolled out product product and have no voice, authority or influence in product, management or business.  

You are empowered to be hyped and sell. It’s sales.  

MLM angers me because it gives false hope and essentially lies to women telling them they are business owners.  They aren’t.  And they fall for it again and again and again.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Where's Toto? said:

 

I used to sell Avon and they never had minimums, you didn't have to keep stock on hand (although you could), and the start up costs were pretty low.  I'm sure that all makes a big difference in how pressured the salespeople feel.  I was one of those people who just put booklets out in the breakroom at work and took orders from those who wanted it.

Yeah, it’s this. The Avon reps I have known over the years were not dilusional about getting a “free” car and becoming the breadwinner through makeup sales. 

In my early twenties, I sold Tupperware for about half a year. The main reason I decided to try it was because they had a special deal on the demo kit for less than $300. So, if nothing else, I would be getting a nice starter set of Tupperwear for less than retail price. My sister was selling so I said I would, too. 

I did start to see that the only people who appeared to be doing well with it (such as the distributor who was the “upline” for my sister and myself) were FAR from SAHMs. Far, far from it. They had to go to the “pep rally” every Monday night. Then, parties 3-4 nights a week. Always making phone calls to psych up the party hosts so they would do their invites and bring in a good party. Every weekend packing out orders and dropping them off.

Those who appeared successful were also constantly  buying ALL the new products. I was very conservative about doing this, because I’m a big believer in it’s not how much you make, it’s how much you keep. But that lady bought every new product. I always wondered how her income actually worked out. 

To me, I had nothing to lose in trying it because I was unmarried and had no kids. I worked at an office during the day and could do Tupperwear stuff at night. But it didn’t take me long to see that it wasn’t all it was promoted to be, and it’s not a good fit for my personality. I have no issue standing in front of people and telling them about a great product, but I hated bugging people, shaking the money tree, and making excuses for the company when they did certain things. 

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, LarlaB said:

 

 

It is less having a problem than I don’t know how to solve and more musing about a larger, more systemic problem I am seeing.

I hate to watch friends get sucked into MLM lies/hype.  It isn’t a solid foundation or real in a “building a small business” because it’s not actually yours nor can you do much beyond sell.  You aren’t your own boss- you decide only how often you feel like working is all.  You are padding someone else’s pocket and working someone else’s plan.  You are captive to the rolled out product product and have no voice, authority or influence in product, management or business.  

You are empowered to be hyped and sell. It’s sales.  

MLM angers me because it gives false hope and essentially lies to women telling them they are business owners.  They aren’t.  And they fall for it again and again and again.

I feel the same way. Personally, it is no skin off my nose that a “friend” is being obnoxious on FB or IRL. But I don’t like that they get sucked into thinking this is going to be the answer to their prayers. I have read articles on line about certain companies causing serious, abject devastation to their predominantly female sales force because of requiring inventory purchases and leading them into extremely bad debt situations. The worst companies I have heard about are Lularoe, Arbonne, MaryKay, and the Health one - is it HealthforLife? Or VitaLife? Something...

I did know one “friend” (friend-of-friend, not close friend) who tried a couple different MLM companies when her kids were almost grown. She did a laundry disk thing, a vitamin company and then an alarm security company. The alarm company also “led” her to having a wardrobe makeover and renting office space downtown. I grant you, she could have refused, but they “tricked” her into thinking she would just make this investment into her image and then the money would roll right in. She ended up almost destroying her marriage; she finally revealed to him that she was five-figures indebted to the company and she did not know what to do or how to fix it. 

I don’t think her story is that unusual. I think companies like that tell the ladies things like, “Do you really need permission from your husband to make this investment into your business? Into your self? You’ve been dutifully raising the kids all these years; now it’s time to do something for you! Besides, your husband is going to kiss your feet when he sees how much money you bring in! And just imagine how much pressure that will take off of him!” 

I really think it’s somewhere between distasteful and criminal the way women are exploited by direct sales. And yes, I know there are such things as males in MlM, but women are targeted and more likely to be hurt by it. 

[Sheila in OK]

1 hour ago, LarlaB said:

 

 

It is less having a problem than I don’t know how to solve and more musing about a larger, more systemic problem I am seeing.

I hate to watch friends get sucked into MLM lies/hype.  It isn’t a solid foundation or real in a “building a small business” because it’s not actually yours nor can you do much beyond sell.  You aren’t your own boss- you decide only how often you feel like working is all.  You are padding someone else’s pocket and working someone else’s plan.  You are captive to the rolled out product product and have no voice, authority or influence in product, management or business.  

You are empowered to be hyped and sell. It’s sales.  

MLM angers me because it gives false hope and essentially lies to women telling them they are business owners.  They aren’t.  And they fall for it again and again and again.

Exactly. And the lies that the products are so expensive because of their "superior quality." And in the next social media post they are bragging about their $6000 monthly check. Are they not seeing the irony there?

And I'm shocked that some of you don't know anyone into MLM sales. I have dozens on my FB feed. I do hide them if it gets excessive; sad because sometimes I do really want to keep up with them and see family pics. I also will check someone's profile if they friend me and I don't know them IRL anymore just to make sure they aren't affiliated with an MLM.

 

[Garga]

Right now I can think of only two MLM friends on FB.  They post their stuff and I scroll past it.  I’m not very close to them though.  They’re only aquaintancs IRL, so maybe it doesn’t impact me the same way as if a good friend was selling something and wanted me to buy it.  

A few years ago, I got invited to a party and I told the hostess, “I cannot buy anything,” and she said, “It’s ok! Just come to hang out!”  So I did, but boy did it feel awkward not to buy anything.  But there was no money, so I couldn’t.  Ever since then, I haven’t gone to a single party, or responded to a single social media post about these parties.  I’m too cheap to buy the stuff these MLM’s are selling and I don’t want to get anyone’s hopes up that I’ll buy.  

I don’t block the FB people who post their stuff.  I just keep scrolling.  I suppose if my FB feed was filled with non-stop MLM stuff, it would get old, but it’s just the two of them, so it’s not a big deal.

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, Sheila in OK said:

And I'm shocked that some of you don't know anyone into MLM sales. I have dozens on my FB feed. I do hide them if it gets excessive; sad because sometimes I do really want to keep up with them and see family pics.

I think it is very much  question of what circles you run in. None of my female friends are doing MLMs. They are either pursuing intense academic careers or are homeschooling moms who run an actual business .

[Joker]

I know a few into those but none are stay home moms. They are all teachers. I just ignore the posts on social media and none have been pushy. 

[Guest]

I have three/four “friends” on FB who do a MLM, but they vary as to how annoying they become. The one I am counting as the fourth I haven’t seen anything market-y in a long while. She was one of the few people whom I told directly I am not interested in direct sales goods at all. 

One is a friend I had been out of touch with for several years, who recently friended me. I could see that she sells something, so I hesitated about accepting her request, but I could always hide her or whatever if it becomes necessary. It’s not much worse than a different friend who constantly puts up selfies. I’m not big on that, either. 

One “friend” who sells stuff...I legit do not know why she knows me. I have an idea as to why, but she communicates with me like I’m her long-lost bff and I just think, “well, but I am not even sure who you are...”