High School Box Curriculum?

[stlily]

This fall I will have my first high school student.  I would like to follow TWTM recommendations but I'm feeling a little overwhelmed. I'm playing around with the idea of purchasing a box curriculum for my ninth grader that will teach history chronologically over 4 years.  I'm looking at Tapestry of Grace but I was wondering if there are other programs out there similar to TOG that I can look at and compare. Also, what are your recommendations:  TWTM for high school or packaged curriculum? Advice, suggestions, things to consider with both. I looked at TOG briefly today and it looks like they have the student read "sections" only of some of the literature selections whereas, TWTM recommends the entire book.  I appreciate your advice. Thank you.

 

Lily

[Lori D.]

Welcome to the "big kid board" and planning for high school! : )

I totally understand wanting to do a 4-year chronological study of History, ala WTM. I'm going to side step your question about comparing WTM and TOG to first suggest 2 important things to think through first, which could help you decide what's the best program or approach for YOUR family for accomplishing your goals for History in high school. And if you've already thought about these 2 things, then please disregard, and hopefully others will post with specific comparisons of WTM and TOG. : ) 

1. Does your student *enjoy* History, and will your student *want* to do 4 years of chronological History in high school?
I ask this, because it's next to impossible to drag an unwilling teen through just about any subject in homeschool (lol). And because high school increasingly needs to include the student's input and interests, as well as coursework that will support where the student is headed after high school. For example, if the student isn't that into History, and is a STEM student who is interested in going for an Engineering degree in college, then 4 years of chronological History may not be of interest to the student, and may not be the best prep or use of the student's time/studies in high school.

[And just to clarify -- I'm not saying I don't think there's value in studying the Humanities (History, Literature, Philosophy, Culture, Arts/Music, etc.) even when not headed towards a Humanities field. Because I DO think EVERYONE benefits from exposure to the Humanities. ; ) What I mean is that how in-depth/rigorous you go into the Humanities, or what materials you use to study the Humanities, will likely need to be very different from one student to the next. So the key is to look at THIS student before you who is about to enter 9th grade, and think through what will best fit with or benefit THIS student?]

2. Have you considered how a 4-year chronological History study will fit in (or not fit in) with a "college prep" set of credits?
Typically, colleges require certain amounts of specific credits to have been completed in high school for the student to be eligible for admission to the college. This set of credits varies slightly from college to college, and esp. if wanting to apply to an elite and/or competitive university, but the set of credits that the majority of non top-tier/competitive colleges are looking for is something like this:

4 credits = English
3-4 credits = Math (Alg. 1, Geom., Alg. 2, and many colleges want a 4th math above Alg. 2)
3-4 credits = Science, with labs (a few colleges specifically want Biology and Chemistry as 2 of those credits)
3-4 credits = Social Studies (most colleges want 1 credit = Amer. Hist., and some also want 1 credit = World Hist/Geog., or 0.5 credit each Econ & Gov't; colleges also accept a number of other types of courses for the Social Studies credits: History of any time period, Geography, Anthropology, Archeology, Sociology, Philosophy, Political Science, etc.)
2-4 credits = Foreign Language, same language
1 credit = Fine Arts
4-8+ credits = Electives (examples: Computer, Logic, Health, PE, Vocational-Tech, personal interest courses, additional Fine Arts, "Academic Electives" (additional credits beyond the required in the above first 5 subject areas), etc.)
22-28+ credits = total credits

Doing a 4-year chronological study of history via WTM or TOG or other, will more than fulfill the *total* number of Social Studies credits -- BUT, note that you would be missing the American History credit wanted by many colleges. That just means that you may need to add material focused on U.S. History in years 3 and 4 (Early Modern and Modern eras) of your History studies to accrue 1 credit of American History along with your chronological studies. It also may mean needing to squeeze in 0.5 credit each of Econ and Gov't along the way. Which may not be a problem -- or, it may be tough, if you have a student who wants to do a lot of Electives or Fine Arts or Foreign Language courses to follow their passion.

Making a high school plan prior to 9th grade can really help define your goals for high school, which in turn, can really help you determine what materials are going to best help you and your student arrive at your goals. Things you want to include in a high school plan:
- your top 2-4 goals you want to accomplish in high school (other than academics)
- list any interests or passions or strengths of the student you'd like to make sure to make time for in high school
- list any weak areas or things you haven't gotten to or want to be sure you get to in high school
- list 6-7 credits from the above "college prep" lists for each year of high school you'd like to try and accomplish

Write this out in pencil (because it WILL change as you move through your high school years), and be sure to NOT over-schedule (and burn-out your student on academics), and so that you leave flexibility and "wiggle room" for those inevitable changing interests or the unexpected opportunities and extracurriculars that will pop up that you want to be able to take advantage of.

NOW... Consider how the 4 credits of a 4-year chronological History study fit (or not) with your high school plan. If that fits well with your goals and your student's interests, that's great! (And at that point, WTM or TOG or other rigorous classical chronological-history-based program would be a good fit.)

If a 4-year / 4 credits of History is not fitting well with your high school plan, then consider adapting your History goal -- perhaps an abbreviated 2-year chronological study would still let you cover the entirety of History, just not in as much depth. Doing all of world history in just 2 years might look something like this:
9th = 1 credit Soc. Studies = History: Ancients/Medieval
10th = 1 credit Soc. Studies = History: Early Modern/Modern
11th = 1 credit Soc. Studies = History: Amer. Hist. (which gives you more exposure to Early Modern and Modern eras)
12th = 1 credit Soc. Studies = 0.5 credit each of Economics and Government

Or, at another example in a different direction: if the student dislikes History, consider doing just 1 credit of American History and then let the student pick other Social Studies areas (see the college prep list of credits above) that would be of more interest. Example:
9th = 1 credit Soc. Studies = World Geography
10th = 1 credit Soc. Studies = Archeology
11th = 1 credit Soc. Studies = American History
12th = 1 credit Soc. Studies = Philosophy

This would mean letting go of the plan for a 4-year chronological history study (and would mean using something completely different than either WTM or TOG) -- but it also means being able to maximize the student's interests and strengths and to better prep the student for life after high school...

BEST of luck in planning for high school History, and for all of high school! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Renaissance Mom]

The vast majority of the literature assigned in Tapestry of Grace is not excerpts but whole works. Their literature component is rich and quite comprehensive. Most families need to trim the lit list each year, which TOG makes easy by including trimming and cutting charts. (Ninth graders typically should use a lightened up list of works rather than attempt to tackle the entire lit component.)

TOG history covers both American and world history quite thoroughly. As a matter of fact, i hunk it is better to teach history this way rather than teaching separate American history and world history courses. The student learns about American history in context with world history. There is no danger of not having enough of the right types of credits for a transcript. We never had any college question whether or not our history courses met their requirements. Admissions counselors complimented my dd on the rigor of he credits on her transcript including all of the credits from her TOG work.

There are optional but included components for the history and development of government which more than satisfy any requirement for a government course. (You would need to supplement details about your own state and local government, but we covered that in basic civics in middle school.) There is no economics in TOG.

I would not minimize the value of the suggested discussion guides for history, literature, government, philosophy, etc. They are excellent, especially if you don’t prefer to come up with deep discussion questions yourself. I found that I leaned heavily on those guides the first couple of years. They helped me find my own rhythm in discussing these subjects at a meaningful level. I have done this so long now that sometimes I just glance at the suggested questions and then go my own way. There are still weeks, however, when I prefer to use what they have because I haven’t had prep time or because hey have done it so well that here is no sense in reinventing the wheel.

[cbollin]

8 hours ago, stlily said:

This fall I will have my first high school student.  I would like to follow TWTM recommendations but I'm feeling a little overwhelmed. I'm playing around with the idea of purchasing a box curriculum for my ninth grader that will teach history chronologically over 4 years.  I'm looking at Tapestry of Grace but I was wondering if there are other programs out there similar to TOG that I can look at and compare.

 

Lily

 

You might want to also look at My Father's World.  My oldest and middle daughters used that for all 4 years.  I liked that it was streamlined and open and go for them. I didn't analyze how it compares to TWTM or all of that.  My oldest did fine with it and was well prepared for college.  She just graduated a month ago with 3 STEM bachelors (electrical engineering, computer science, and math and was summa cum laude at that. wow), and she was also well equipped for humanities and gen ed classes that she took.  Middle kid is slow to average in ability and she was able to do the high school work and liked it. Oldest hated the timeline. Middle gal loved it. Oldest hated timeline, but with days to go before her final finals week, she was preparing a poster session and said "oh wow. all of that timeline bleep from mfw is finally paying off".  LOL.    Middle gal is not traditional path to college due to various abilities, gifts and lack thereof.  But overall, I liked how the student could open MFW and get it done. I had to help with some stuff and have audio books to help middle gal, and hold office hours for oldest.  It really was "enough" for us.  I'm sure that others will say it's baby work.  ok. that's all subjective.  but it worked out fine for us.  Oldest even has a job right out of graduation in her field! yippeee!!! 

lots of good ways to get all of this done.  others did way more than we did.  best wishes as you plan and get there.  Remember that they may not be ready at the first day of grade 9 to do it all, but they'll get there if you just keep swimming.

 

[Momto6inIN]

Lori D is smart ?

While I liked the idea of 4 years of history a la WTM, in reality it just didn't work well for our family. My oldest is a STEM kid and just wanted a get 'er done history plan. And all my kids love to read, but the reading lists in WTM are quite ... ambitious, to say the least. No way are any of my kids going to slog through Greek plays! ? If that works for you and your kids then great! Seriously, have at it and more power to you! But it's just not who we are.

My kids wanted more time to develop other interests/electives/extracurriculars, and that just would not have happened if they were spending hours each day on history and literature. I looked longingly at TOG for a good while too. It's so pretty! And shiny! And well done! And all in one place! *sigh* But in the end it was still way too much time spent on those 2 subjects for us, so we opted for more of a do it yourself approach to high school.  It took lots more planning on my part, for sure. But it's been better for our family than buying a box or doing WTM.

YMMV, of course.

[rjand6more]

My oldest used MFW 9-11.  It was perfect for him.   He was not highly motivated.  The program is much lighter on the reading assignments than other "boxed" curricula.  I felt it was very complete and it offered an ancient history year.  It also had a strong US history year.  His senior year we just filled in with Econ/Government without MFW.

Now, my second...She did MFW Ancients, but now she's moved into AP classes.  She is taking AP US History and AP English Language.  MFW would not work this year at all.

 

So, depends on the kid.:)

[Mom22ns]

I really just have a question. Have you used TOG before? I found TOG the most overwhelming and difficult to use boxed curriculum I've ever considered. If you haven't used it before and are considering it just to make your life easier, you should be very sure you've gone through their samples and made sure it will do what you want. For an open and go boxed curriculum that still has the whole book feel, you might consider My Father's World.

 

[stlily]

7 minutes ago, Mom22ns said:

I really just have a question. Have you used TOG before? I found TOG the most overwhelming and difficult to use boxed curriculum I've ever considered. If you haven't used it before and are considering it just to make your life easier, you should be very sure you've gone through their samples and made sure it will do what you want. For an open and go boxed curriculum that still has the whole book feel, you might consider My Father's World.

 

I've never used TOG.  Someone else suggested My Father's World so I'm looking at that one too. I've heard from others that TOG can be a little difficult to figure out.  Looking at MFW, it looks like there are only 6 books covered for literature.  I guess I could always add a few more. Thanks for your response.

[stlily]

On 6/13/2018 at 12:10 AM, Lori D. said:

Welcome to the "big kid board" and planning for high school! : )

I totally understand wanting to do a 4-year chronological study of History, ala WTM. I'm going to side step your question about comparing WTM and TOG to first suggest 2 important things to think through first, which could help you decide what's the best program or approach for YOUR family for accomplishing your goals for History in high school. And if you've already thought about these 2 things, then please disregard, and hopefully others will post with specific comparisons of WTM and TOG. : ) 

1. Does your student *enjoy* History, and will your student *want* to do 4 years of chronological History in high school?
I ask this, because it's next to impossible to drag an unwilling teen through just about any subject in homeschool (lol). And because high school increasingly needs to include the student's input and interests, as well as coursework that will support where the student is headed after high school. For example, if the student isn't that into History, and is a STEM student who is interested in going for an Engineering degree in college, then 4 years of chronological History may not be of interest to the student, and may not be the best prep or use of the student's time/studies in high school.

[And just to clarify -- I'm not saying I don't think there's value in studying the Humanities (History, Literature, Philosophy, Culture, Arts/Music, etc.) even when not headed towards a Humanities field. Because I DO think EVERYONE benefits from exposure to the Humanities. ; ) What I mean is that how in-depth/rigorous you go into the Humanities, or what materials you use to study the Humanities, will likely need to be very different from one student to the next. So the key is to look at THIS student before you who is about to enter 9th grade, and think through what will best fit with or benefit THIS student?]

2. Have you considered how a 4-year chronological History study will fit in (or not fit in) with a "college prep" set of credits?
Typically, colleges require certain amounts of specific credits to have been completed in high school for the student to be eligible for admission to the college. This set of credits varies slightly from college to college, and esp. if wanting to apply to an elite and/or competitive university, but the set of credits that the majority of non top-tier/competitive colleges are looking for is something like this:

4 credits = English
3-4 credits = Math (Alg. 1, Geom., Alg. 2, and many colleges want a 4th math above Alg. 2)
3-4 credits = Science, with labs (a few colleges specifically want Biology and Chemistry as 2 of those credits)
3-4 credits = Social Studies (most colleges want 1 credit = Amer. Hist., and some also want 1 credit = World Hist/Geog., or 0.5 credit each Econ & Gov't; colleges also accept a number of other types of courses for the Social Studies credits: History of any time period, Geography, Anthropology, Archeology, Sociology, Philosophy, Political Science, etc.)
2-4 credits = Foreign Language, same language
1 credit = Fine Arts
4-8+ credits = Electives (examples: Computer, Logic, Health, PE, Vocational-Tech, personal interest courses, additional Fine Arts, "Academic Electives" (additional credits beyond the required in the above first 5 subject areas), etc.)
22-28+ credits = total credits

Doing a 4-year chronological study of history via WTM or TOG or other, will more than fulfill the *total* number of Social Studies credits -- BUT, note that you would be missing the American History credit wanted by many colleges. That just means that you may need to add material focused on U.S. History in years 3 and 4 (Early Modern and Modern eras) of your History studies to accrue 1 credit of American History along with your chronological studies. It also may mean needing to squeeze in 0.5 credit each of Econ and Gov't along the way. Which may not be a problem -- or, it may be tough, if you have a student who wants to do a lot of Electives or Fine Arts or Foreign Language courses to follow their passion.

Making a high school plan prior to 9th grade can really help define your goals for high school, which in turn, can really help you determine what materials are going to best help you and your student arrive at your goals. Things you want to include in a high school plan:
- your top 2-4 goals you want to accomplish in high school (other than academics)
- list any interests or passions or strengths of the student you'd like to make sure to make time for in high school
- list any weak areas or things you haven't gotten to or want to be sure you get to in high school
- list 6-7 credits from the above "college prep" lists for each year of high school you'd like to try and accomplish

Write this out in pencil (because it WILL change as you move through your high school years), and be sure to NOT over-schedule (and burn-out your student on academics), and so that you leave flexibility and "wiggle room" for those inevitable changing interests or the unexpected opportunities and extracurriculars that will pop up that you want to be able to take advantage of.

NOW... Consider how the 4 credits of a 4-year chronological History study fit (or not) with your high school plan. If that fits well with your goals and your student's interests, that's great! (And at that point, WTM or TOG or other rigorous classical chronological-history-based program would be a good fit.)

If a 4-year / 4 credits of History is not fitting well with your high school plan, then consider adapting your History goal -- perhaps an abbreviated 2-year chronological study would still let you cover the entirety of History, just not in as much depth. Doing all of world history in just 2 years might look something like this:
9th = 1 credit Soc. Studies = History: Ancients/Medieval
10th = 1 credit Soc. Studies = History: Early Modern/Modern
11th = 1 credit Soc. Studies = History: Amer. Hist. (which gives you more exposure to Early Modern and Modern eras)
12th = 1 credit Soc. Studies = 0.5 credit each of Economics and Government

Or, at another example in a different direction: if the student dislikes History, consider doing just 1 credit of American History and then let the student pick other Social Studies areas (see the college prep list of credits above) that would be of more interest. Example:
9th = 1 credit Soc. Studies = World Geography
10th = 1 credit Soc. Studies = Archeology
11th = 1 credit Soc. Studies = American History
12th = 1 credit Soc. Studies = Philosophy

This would mean letting go of the plan for a 4-year chronological history study (and would mean using something completely different than either WTM or TOG) -- but it also means being able to maximize the student's interests and strengths and to better prep the student for life after high school...

BEST of luck in planning for high school History, and for all of high school! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Thank you for your response.  I will copy and save it for future reference:)  History is my daughter's favorite subject so she will study history all four years regardless of what path she takes.  The 4th edition of TWTM does an excellent job guiding parents on how to list the course descriptions and credits on transcripts when studying history TWTM way.  I guess what I'm looking for is a program that will be challenging, will prepare my daughter well for college, and is also fun.  We have always studied history "TWTM" way and she has learned a ton but it's been a little dry and a lot of work.  I want her to enjoy her last for years in our homeschool as well as be well prepared for college. Thanks again for your response

[Penelope]

I have no experience with it, but History Odyssey from Pandia Press has two years of their high school level out, Ancients and Modern, plus another year of American History.

[Lori D.]

6 hours ago, stlily said:

Thank you for your response.  I will copy and save it for future reference:)  History is my daughter's favorite subject so she will study history all four years regardless of what path she takes.  The 4th edition of TWTM does an excellent job guiding parents on how to list the course descriptions and credits on transcripts when studying history TWTM way.  I guess what I'm looking for is a program that will be challenging, will prepare my daughter well for college, and is also fun.  We have always studied history "TWTM" way and she has learned a ton but it's been a little dry and a lot of work.  I want her to enjoy her last for years in our homeschool as well as be well prepared for college. Thanks again for your response

If this would be fun for you and DD, perhaps consider stepping outside the box of chronological classical Great Books study and see if you and DD might enjoy the Victorian/Edwardian Era unit study of Where the Brook and River Meet, based on the Anne of Green Gables books -- subjects include History, Literature, Writing, and more.

Or, you could try a "DIY" approach to make it less dry (although, DIY is still a lot of work to pull together yourself). That also allows your student more input into their own education, and allows the student to follow interests and passions, and to make some great memories together during the high school years.

For example, the year we did 20th Century World History, we "matched" our Literature and did classic works of Sci-Fi, as that is a Modern genre of Literature. DS was also very interested in Worldview, so we did a "Worldviews in Classic Sci-Fi Lit." for our Literature. DS says it was his all-time favorite History/Lit year!

Another poster, 8FillTheHeart, created a year-long Lit & Writing course for her Lord of the Rings loving DD that dug into the literature that influenced J.R.R. Tolkien (see this past thread:  "x-post: Any serious Tolkien fans...") And yet another poster, Chrysalis Academy has a theater-loving DD, and created a 9th grade History and Literature program that wrapped around her DD's interests (sorry, can't find the thread at the moment). Here are links to past threads to encourage you if you think going the "DIY" route would bring joy to your studies this year:

Past threads with general info on how to DIY:
"If you make up your own literature course"
"If you create your own homeschool lit."
"Just reading vs. using literature guides"

Past threads on genres for DIY Literature:
"Anyone know of a Fantasy and Science Fiction literature course?"
"Roots of Steampunk literature"
"Dystopian society or Sci-Fi literature study for middle school..." and "Utopian and Dystopian literature"
"Science Fiction unit" and "Science Fiction"
"Fairy Tale unit for high school" and "Need ideas: classics: Cinderella, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, etc."
"Literary spoof, satire, sarcasm, anyone?" -- authors that fall in this category for a Lit. study
"Can I feel dumb here and ask about Victorian era, Pride & Prejudice and British Lit?" -- 19th century female authors Lit. study

_____________________

Three more rigorous, classical, Christian programs to look at in addition to Tapestry of Grace:
- Roman Roads Media
- Veritas Omnibus -- two 3-year cycles of History, Literature, and Theology/Philosophy, starting in 7th grade -- quite rigorous, and you could easily start Omnibus 1 in 9th grade (Omnibus I (7th) and IV (10th) = Ancients, Omnibus II (8th) and V (11th) = Medieval, Omnibus III (9th) and VI (12th) = Early Modern/Modern
- Memoria Press - Literature, Classical Studies, American & Modern Studies

____________________

Several less rigorous chronological History/Lit programs to possibly consider:
- My Father's World -- and Cathy Duffy review
- Pandia Press: History Odyssey -- and, Cathy Duffy review
- Biblioplan -- and, Cathy Duffy review
- TruthQuest -- and, Cathy Duffy review
- Trisms -- and, Cathy Duffy review
- Wayfarers -- and Cathy Duffy review

____________________

Another option that is quite rigorous, classical, and a Great Books approach (History & Literature) and a 4-year chronological History study would be to outsource to online classes with The Well-Trained Mind Academy or Wilson Hill Academy. Not sure I would call those "fun", but they are certainly rigorous.

 

BEST of luck in deciding how best to plan for high school History and Literature! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[stlily]

6 hours ago, Lori D. said:

If this would be fun for you and DD, perhaps consider stepping outside the box of chronological classical Great Books study and see if you and DD might enjoy the Victorian/Edwardian Era unit study of Where the Brook and River Meet, based on the Anne of Green Gables books -- subjects include History, Literature, Writing, and more.

Or, you could try a "DIY" approach to make it less dry (although, DIY is still a lot of work to pull together yourself). That also allows your student more input into their own education, and allows the student to follow interests and passions, and to make some great memories together during the high school years.

For example, the year we did 20th Century World History, we "matched" our Literature and did classic works of Sci-Fi, as that is a Modern genre of Literature. DS was also very interested in Worldview, so we did a "Worldviews in Classic Sci-Fi Lit." for our Literature. DS says it was his all-time favorite History/Lit year!

Another poster, 8FillTheHeart, created a year-long Lit & Writing course for her Lord of the Rings loving DD that dug into the literature that influenced J.R.R. Tolkien (see this past thread:  "x-post: Any serious Tolkien fans...") And yet another poster, Chrysalis Academy has a theater-loving DD, and created a 9th grade History and Literature program that wrapped around her DD's interests (sorry, can't find the thread at the moment). Here are links to past threads to encourage you if you think going the "DIY" route would bring joy to your studies this year:

Past threads with general info on how to DIY:
"If you make up your own literature course"
"If you create your own homeschool lit."
"Just reading vs. using literature guides"

Past threads on genres for DIY Literature:
"Anyone know of a Fantasy and Science Fiction literature course?"
"Roots of Steampunk literature"
"Dystopian society or Sci-Fi literature study for middle school..." and "Utopian and Dystopian literature"
"Science Fiction unit" and "Science Fiction"
"Fairy Tale unit for high school" and "Need ideas: classics: Cinderella, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, etc."
"Literary spoof, satire, sarcasm, anyone?" -- authors that fall in this category for a Lit. study
"Can I feel dumb here and ask about Victorian era, Pride & Prejudice and British Lit?" -- 19th century female authors Lit. study

_____________________

Three more rigorous, classical, Christian programs to look at in addition to Tapestry of Grace:
- Roman Roads Media
- Veritas Omnibus -- two 3-year cycles of History, Literature, and Theology/Philosophy, starting in 7th grade -- quite rigorous, and you could easily start Omnibus 1 in 9th grade (Omnibus I (7th) and IV (10th) = Ancients, Omnibus II (8th) and V (11th) = Medieval, Omnibus III (9th) and VI (12th) = Early Modern/Modern
- Memoria Press - Literature, Classical Studies, American & Modern Studies

____________________

Several less rigorous chronological History/Lit programs to possibly consider:
- My Father's World -- and Cathy Duffy review
- Pandia Press: History Odyssey -- and, Cathy Duffy review
- Biblioplan -- and, Cathy Duffy review
- TruthQuest -- and, Cathy Duffy review
- Trisms -- and, Cathy Duffy review
- Wayfarers -- and Cathy Duffy review

____________________

Another option that is quite rigorous, classical, and a Great Books approach (History & Literature) and a 4-year chronological History study would be to outsource to online classes with The Well-Trained Mind Academy or Wilson Hill Academy. Not sure I would call those "fun", but they are certainly rigorous.

 

BEST of luck in deciding how best to plan for high school History and Literature! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Thank you, Lori D.! I didn't know all of this was out there. Thank you for taking the time to type it all out. I really appreciate it.?

[cbollin]

On 6/14/2018 at 4:48 PM, stlily said:

I've never used TOG.  Someone else suggested My Father's World so I'm looking at that one too. I've heard from others that TOG can be a little difficult to figure out.  Looking at MFW, it looks like there are only 6 books covered for literature.  I guess I could always add a few more. Thanks for your response.

 

to help you see the unseen.....  There are 6 books in the required literature in the ancients year.  But in the daily lesson plan, they have more optional reading at various levels.  So you can easily add to it and they give some suggestions or you can use any reading list you want. (and of course they are also reading the entire Old Testament during that time as well).  And then in the world history/lit year, they have a lot of optional lists to read and approximate times of year to do them (especially during time of the research paper).  So if you end up with using their stuff, they do try to help with suggested, but optional, reading list.  I forgot how many in US1 year.  but it was about 20 novels for literature to pick and choose from in the US2 year.  I think we did 8.  maybe?  It was enough.

but you can add to it.  or use their ideas.  Those aren't shown in the package but are in the daily lesson planner and then you grab from library or used sales.  wanted to let you know that in case it helps you decide if it's right or not right for your needs.

 

[cbollin]

and I wanted to say that even though many people review and classify MFW in the Less rigorous approach, our experience was that it was still quality and plenty to do.  Rigor is a relative term in the decision.  less rigor does not mean bad.  My oldest still ended up very well prepared for college (you don't get 3 degrees in 4 years and end up summa cum laude without some serious work) in spite of the "less rigor" label of mfw.   results will vary of course.  but she would have burned out too soon if we had done too much more.  mileage will vary.  Just wanted to encourage you that if you something that is viewed as "less rigor" that doesn't mean inferior or bad. No one here has said that of course.  But sometimes our mommy brains hear things and we get worried that we're going to fail our kids in high school without the most work or something.   It's a balance.

ps: nothing wrong with using most rigor either. lots of right ways to get them ready. just wanted to share my personal experiences

[rjand6more]

1 hour ago, cbollin said:

and I wanted to say that even though many people review and classify MFW in the Less rigorous approach, our experience was that it was still quality and plenty to do.  Rigor is a relative term in the decision.  less rigor does not mean bad.  My oldest still ended up very well prepared for college (you don't get 3 degrees in 4 years and end up summa cum laude without some serious work) in spite of the "less rigor" label of mfw.   results will vary of course.  but she would have burned out too soon if we had done too much more.  mileage will vary.  Just wanted to encourage you that if you something that is viewed as "less rigor" that doesn't mean inferior or bad. No one hear has said that of course.  But sometimes our mommy brains hear things and we get worried that we're going to fail our kids in high school without the most work or something.   It's a balance.

ps: nothing wrong with using most rigor either. lots of right ways to get them ready. just wanted to share my personal experiences

I completely agree with this.  Where some might say, "Only 6 books all year for literature."  I say 6 quality books that are used to dig into.  There are tons more book suggestions to add to it.  It was a good amount of required reading for analysis. Sometimes less IS more. He would have hated having a schedule of reading that he drown in.  I still assigned additional books on occasion(suggested by the MFW TM.)

With the writing instruction, literature, history...my ds was overprepared for any college writing/English class he has taken.(He's an Anthropology major-lots of papers and reading.)

 

[stlily]

4 hours ago, cbollin said:

 

to help you see the unseen.....  There are 6 books in the required literature in the ancients year.  But in the daily lesson plan, they have more optional reading at various levels.  So you can easily add to it and they give some suggestions or you can use any reading list you want. (and of course they are also reading the entire Old Testament during that time as well).  And then in the world history/lit year, they have a lot of optional lists to read and approximate times of year to do them (especially during time of the research paper).  So if you end up with using their stuff, they do try to help with suggested, but optional, reading list.  I forgot how many in US1 year.  but it was about 20 novels for literature to pick and choose from in the US2 year.  I think we did 8.  maybe?  It was enough.

but you can add to it.  or use their ideas.  Those aren't shown in the package but are in the daily lesson planner and then you grab from library or used sales.  wanted to let you know that in case it helps you decide if it's right or not right for your needs.

 

Thank you. This does help.  I went to the "Buy the Books for Year 1" tab and I'm guessing the books I would need are the ones that say "rhetoric" and "history". Would I also need the "Y1U1" books?  I guess I should call them. Thanks again for the info.  This helps a lot.

[stlily]

4 hours ago, cbollin said:

and I wanted to say that even though many people review and classify MFW in the Less rigorous approach, our experience was that it was still quality and plenty to do.  Rigor is a relative term in the decision.  less rigor does not mean bad.  My oldest still ended up very well prepared for college (you don't get 3 degrees in 4 years and end up summa cum laude without some serious work) in spite of the "less rigor" label of mfw.   results will vary of course.  but she would have burned out too soon if we had done too much more.  mileage will vary.  Just wanted to encourage you that if you something that is viewed as "less rigor" that doesn't mean inferior or bad. No one hear has said that of course.  But sometimes our mommy brains hear things and we get worried that we're going to fail our kids in high school without the most work or something.   It's a balance.

ps: nothing wrong with using most rigor either. lots of right ways to get them ready. just wanted to share my personal experiences

I appreciate you saying this.  You're right, sometimes we hear "less rigor" and we think "too easy" or "not as good".  Sometimes I hear "rigorous" and I think "burn out" .   What appeals to me about MFW is that I think she'll enjoy it and it'll leave some room for her to follow other passions.  I could always add more books too. Thank again, for the encouragement.?

[cbollin]

5 minutes ago, stlily said:

Thank you. This does help.  I went to the "Buy the Books for Year 1" tab and I'm guessing the books I would need are the ones that say "rhetoric" and "history". Would I also need the "Y1U1" books?  I guess I should call them. Thanks again for the info.  This helps a lot.

 

That sounds like TOG questions. I was talking about MFW. MFW's year 1 is : https://www.mfwbooks.com/products/15/Ancient-History-and-Literature/#Overview

I'm sure both companies have good customer service to help with ordering specifics.

[stlily]

3 minutes ago, cbollin said:

 

That sounds like TOG questions. I was talking about MFW. MFW's year 1 is : https://www.mfwbooks.com/products/15/Ancient-History-and-Literature/#Overview

I'm sure both companies have good customer service to help with ordering specifics.

O.k. Thanks again.