Language Help for 4th/5th

[nena3927]

I'm having a tough time figuring out what to do for my older two kiddos for Language this year (we start a new school year in July). I've decided my 5th grader will try SYS for spelling in July and my 4th grader will be continuing with Rod and Staff since this works well for her and is cheap. They will both do CLE Reading.

Here's my choices for writing : IEW, Essentials in Writing, Evan Moore Daily 6 Trait Writing. 

Grammar choices: Easy Grammar, Jr. Analytical Grammar, Editor in Chief, ACE English

My 4th grade daughter would do well with any program. She picks up concepts easily and will happily do her work independently. My 5th grade son however, struggles with new concepts, has difficulty writing, needs LOTS of repetition, and also would rather work independently. We had major issues this year using Rod and Staff English with him. He hated the oral reviews, found the explanations too long, and would drift off when I would try to explain the lesson. He needs short and sweet.

I'm leaning toward Essentials in Writing but wonder if there really is enough grammar in the program for it to carry over in their work? Which would you choose and why? If you have other recommendations, I'm open to those as well. Keep in mind I will also have a 2nd grader and 2yr old so my time is limited, and I'm not interested in anything extremely teacher intensive for this year. Thank you!

[Another Lynn]

Although I haven't used EIW, I think it might be worth a try.  It will still be doable even when you're running out of time to work one on one.  Your ds wants to work independently, so it could allow him to feel more independent (perhaps making it easier for you to come along side with suggestions, edits, grading, etc.).  As far as your concerns about grammar, even if your ds doesn't achieve the mastery you're looking for he will have had at least some grammar instruction and you can always hit it a little harder the next year.  

[Momto6inIN]

It's been 6th -8th grade before my kids had their grammar and spelling skills begin to transfer over to their writing with any kind of consistency. Those are the years we do Analytical Grammar, and while I think it's a great program, I think the real reason it "clicks" then is because their brains are ready to handle the info and ready to use it in their writing. We do some grammar before then so it's not a completely new topic when we start AG, but I don't expect grammar to "stick" before then. So I'd say pick whatever writing program will get your kids where you want them to be, and then worry about grammar later on in middle school. We love IEW for writing but EIW is a solid, good choice too.

[MerryAtHope]

I think you really just want to lay a grammar foundation now--it's hard for young kids to put all of the skills required for writing together at once. That often comes later. 

[Targhee]

My suggestion: don’t do grammar! Wait another year or two and do Analytical Grammar or another complete grammar that is geared to middle school. I am squarely in the better late than early camp for grammar.  If you feel you need something do sentence family or Grammar Island - they only take a few weeks - and let it lie until you come back to it in a few years.

Weak areas (as writing is for your DS) are not the place to turn them over to independence.  Get him working independently in other things, and really work with him (or keep close tabs on him while he follows instructional videos and assignments).  Daily 6-trait writing is succinct.  It would be semi-independent, but you’re still right there with him.  It’s inexpensive, and if half way through the year it really isn’t getting him the help he needs you can reconsider. IEW might also be a good match - clear instructions, repetition in the form of building step by step.

 

[Targhee]

One more comment, are you planning on both kids using the same curriculum for writing? If possible I would think about different curricula.  In skill areas with younger siblings with more advanced skills this can make a huge difference *mentally* 

[nena3927]

On 6/16/2018 at 8:25 PM, Targhee said:

One more comment, are you planning on both kids using the same curriculum for writing? If possible I would think about different curricula.  In skill areas with younger siblings with more advanced skills this can make a huge difference *mentally* 

This is something I did not consider, so thank you for mentioning it. I may have to refocus somewhat on my plan. It would save me time to teach both children together, but I also don't want to discourage my son when compared with how quickly his younger sister picks up concepts. Not to mention the fact that her writing flows easily while he really struggles to compose sentences ?

[Targhee]

15 minutes ago, nena3927 said:

This is something I did not consider, so thank you for mentioning it. I may have to refocus somewhat on my plan. It would save me time to teach both children together, but I also don't want to discourage my son when compared with how quickly his younger sister picks up concepts. Not to mention the fact that her writing flows easily while he really struggles to compose sentences ?

Another way to think about it is that you’ve found things which are working for her, and you can stay with for her. And you have the chance to try a different key in the lock of his mind to open up his writing.

[Ellie]

On 6/10/2018 at 6:37 PM, nena3927 said:

I'm having a tough time figuring out what to do for my older two kiddos for Language this year (we start a new school year in July). I've decided my 5th grader will try SYS for spelling in July and my 4th grader will be continuing with Rod and Staff since this works well for her and is cheap. They will both do CLE Reading.

Here's my choices for writing : IEW, Essentials in Writing, Evan Moore Daily 6 Trait Writing. 

Grammar choices: Easy Grammar, Jr. Analytical Grammar, Editor in Chief, ACE English

My 4th grade daughter would do well with any program. She picks up concepts easily and will happily do her work independently. My 5th grade son however, struggles with new concepts, has difficulty writing, needs LOTS of repetition, and also would rather work independently. We had major issues this year using Rod and Staff English with him. He hated the oral reviews, found the explanations too long, and would drift off when I would try to explain the lesson. He needs short and sweet.

I'm leaning toward Essentials in Writing but wonder if there really is enough grammar in the program for it to carry over in their work? Which would you choose and why? If you have other recommendations, I'm open to those as well. Keep in mind I will also have a 2nd grader and 2yr old so my time is limited, and I'm not interested in anything extremely teacher intensive for this year. Thank you!

If your dd is doing well with R&S English, I'd let her stay there, for writing as well as for grammar. It's really quite comprehensive. And you don't have to explain the lesson; everything the children need to know is *right there* in their texts. The authors purposely wrote most of their texts that way, because they know that most of the schools which use them are one-room, multigrade schools, with one teacher who doesn't have time to lecture and explain and whatnot. And if your dd is doing that, you'll be free to work with your ds.

I prefer Easy Grammar, but then I don't love diagramming. :-) My only caveat with EG is that *you* have to correct each page your dc does before allowing him to go on to the next one. More than one parent has found to her dismay that her dc, who was allowed to correct his own work,  has completed almost the whole book but gotten almost everything incorrect and so has to start over. It will only take a minute for you to correct.

I don't believe Editor in Chief is intended to be the primary instruction but is more of a review/usage thing.