S/O: Does a college degree expire

[DawnM]

I was thinking of that thread yesterday as I was talking to a friend about her not finishing college.  She started about 10-12 years ago at a community college.  Due to life circumstances, she had to quit.  She now wants to go back but keeps telling me she would need to start over.  I told her most colleges will work with you to get you to finish without having to retake everything, esp. if you go back to the same college.  

She then said that she went about a year ago and they told her that her credits are no longer transferable.  

So, do you think I am right in assuming her credits would still count towards finishing the AA, and then it wouldn't be an issue to transfer to a 4 year school with that degree in hand?  Or do you think they really have "expired?" 

They are just general ed classes, not anything specific to a major that would now be outdated.

How can I help her?

The community college is College of the Canyons in Santa Clarita, CA if that matters.

 

[DawnM]

For the record, I have a story that goes along with this.   Years ago, I finished my school counseling credentials/grad program.  I did not opt to get my MA in school counseling because in CA, if you already had an MA, you didn't need a 2nd one.  So, I opted not to do the two additional classes and the mini-thesis. 

Fast forward to DH wanting to move out of CA.  I started looking at different state's requirements and they ALL said, "nope, you must have the MA IN School Counseling or you can't be a counselor here."  

So, I went to the Dean of the department and she said, "Nope, we have changed the program, and you started your program 7 years ago, so you will have to start over and we will only let you use 3 of your original classes towards an MA."

I was devastated.  I knew there was no way, with two tiny children, that I would spend that much time and money, going back and starting over.  So, I sat on the news about two weeks and came up with an idea.  I paid $80 and filled out an "intent to graduate" form, explaining that I wanted to finish the MA under the old program and requesting that I could do that.  Well, VOILA!  A week or so later, I got a letter in the mail, signed by the President of the College, stating that they would indeed allow me to take just the 2 classes and the mini-thesis as long as I finished within the next semester.  They said I could file for an extension if I wished, but I wasn't messing with a signed paper from the President of the Univ, and I jumped on it.  I finished all of it the next semester and got my 2nd MA.

So, long story short, it seems like it all depends on who you talk to as to what story you get!  And persistence can pay off.

In fact, I told my story to a friend who told me she never finished her BA (same college I got my MA) because of a professor's info and she needed one class to finish, but the college had changed their program and it had been 15 years and she wasn't sure it was worth it.  After hearing my story, she did the same thing, send an intent to graduate form and $80 and they replied, "We have looked over your records and we no longer offer that one class you needed, so here is your diploma!"  She was floored!~

[Farrar]

I definitely know people who got a little ways down a path at a CC to getting some diploma or certification, dropped it, and then had to start over several years later, though the cases I'm thinking of, they were living somewhere else. Transferring credits is always a risky proposition.

I feel like the lesson is always finish something if you can. A degree doesn't expire (I mean, I read that thread too... it doesn't exactly expire) but credits absolutely can.

[DawnM]

7 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I definitely know people who got a little ways down a path at a CC to getting some diploma or certification, dropped it, and then had to start over several years later, though the cases I'm thinking of, they were living somewhere else. Transferring credits is always a risky proposition.

I feel like the lesson is always finish something if you can. A degree doesn't expire (I mean, I read that thread too... it doesn't exactly expire) but credits absolutely can.

 

Well, she isn't looking to transfer yet, so I was trying to get her to drop the transfer discussion and just ask about finishing the AA with what she has and additional classes.  

I would never tell her that she needs to learn some lesson, she dropped due to life circumstances as many do (had a child, guy left her, etc....)  I think she knows she has learned some hard life lessons already.  I just want to help her figure out how to finish without adding to the mess.

[Hoggirl]

I’m glad you posted this.  My niece may very well wind up in the same predicament if she ever chooses to return to college.  She was full-time through spring of 2012 but has been in and out part-time ever since.  Lately more out than in.  I may mention this to my sil.  

[RootAnn]

Around here, she'd likely have to start over although they would probably give her "Life Credit" for some classes in order to boost her at the beginning (maybe a semester of gen ed credits). Here, "life credit" is big at the CC & even at a local state college to try to help non-trad students to come back. But, yeah, mostly those credits expire within five years.

[DawnM]

Ok, well, I was hoping that wouldn't be the case.  She is going back to speak to someone else.

I just know even my friend's husband, who finished 3 years of college but never got a degree.....he went back after 15 years and they were willing to work with him to get him finished in 18 months of evening classes.  But it was a private school, maybe that was part of the difference?  

[8filltheheart]

I would tell her to talk directly to the school. My ds is planning on going back to school in the fall. He dropped out of school in 2012. The school here has not said a thing about his transferred credits. I am guessing it is bc they are all standard gen ed credits (English, history, math type credits) and nothing technical or degree directly related.

This article is similar to what I would expect: https://www.coloradotech.edu/blog/2018/february/do-college-credits-expire

[MerryAtHope]

9 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

Well, she isn't looking to transfer yet, so I was trying to get her to drop the transfer discussion and just ask about finishing the AA with what she has and additional classes.  

I would never tell her that she needs to learn some lesson, she dropped due to life circumstances as many do (had a child, guy left her, etc....)  I think she knows she has learned some hard life lessons already.  I just want to help her figure out how to finish without adding to the mess.

 

I took her post to mean a lesson for us in general as we help our kids--not that you should go back and say that to your friend :-). 

Is she still local to the CC she started with? I like your idea of seeing if she can "finish" her associate's now. Transferring from some CC's can be tricky anyway (while others have great transfer agreements and it's fairly easy), and if she can finish the AA/AS, that seems like the best approach. LOVED your story and your other friend who just got her diploma--how awesome is that?!!

[DawnM]

3 minutes ago, MerryAtHope said:

 

I took her post to mean a lesson for us in general as we help our kids--not that you should go back and say that to your friend :-). 

Is she still local to the CC she started with? I like your idea of seeing if she can "finish" her associate's now. Transferring from some CC's can be tricky anyway (while others have great transfer agreements and it's fairly easy), and if she can finish the AA/AS, that seems like the best approach. LOVED your story and your other friend who just got her diploma--how awesome is that?!!

 

She wants to go back to the SAME school, that is why I wasn't really understanding why they wouldn't just let her finish.  She doesn't want to transfer until she finishes the AA, which I guess I just assumed would be fine as she would have a degree first.  But maybe not.

[MerryAtHope]

1 minute ago, DawnM said:

 

She wants to go back to the SAME school, that is why I wasn't really understanding why they wouldn't just let her finish.  She doesn't want to transfer until she finishes the AA, which I guess I just assumed would be fine as she would have a degree first.  But maybe not.

 

It really might depend on how things are set up in your state. In our state, we have an automatic transfer agreement system, and the classes have been certified to be to a certain level and meet all of the transfer requirements. But if someone had taken a class before that system was in place--I'm not sure the school could "count" it under the current agreement. 

[8filltheheart]

FWIW, my ds is transferring his credits to a different state.  It still has not appeared to be a problem.  I guess we will know for sure in the next couple of weeks b/c 2 of the credits are prereqs for what he wants to take next semester.

[Bootsie]

I have also heard of some schools allowing a "restart" of college.  If a student had poor grades, after a certain time they were allowed to restart with a clean slate, but everything had to be retaken; they did not have the option to keep the good grades and throw out the bad

[Lori D.]

Colleges change their programs and their requirements over time, so even if attending the same college with years off between starting/finishing a degree means you are starting under one catalog (with one particular set of required credits), and finishing under a different catalog (with a different particular set of required credits).

And if transferring from one school to another, even with no time off between switching, always means your previous credits will be run through the new school's registrar to determine which credits will be accepted by the new school as counting towards the degree, and which will count only as "elective" credits.

Also, some credits (whether taken at a community college or a university) can "expire". For example, credits in Computer, Medicine, Engineering, etc., can become outdated due to innovations in the STEM fields, or due to the student needing to be current in applying the medical techniques learned for the credit -- like having to re-certify for CPR/First Aid or EMT every few years, and if you let the re-certification lapse, then you have to re-take the coursework from scratch.

re: helping the friend
I'd suggest working backwards from the end goal. So: FIRST contact the university that she plans to attend and to see if they will accept an AA from the community college (CC) as completing the gen. ed. requirements for the 4-year degree she wants to pursue. If the university will only count selected credits out of the AA towards the gen. ed credits, then it is pointless to pursue an AA. Instead, find out what specific credits from the CC WILL transfer and count towards the degree, and take those.

Also, if the friend is good at self-study and tests, then look in to what specific CLEP tests the university will accept towards the degree requirements, as CLEP testing is a faster and much cheaper way of knocking out credits in advance of attending a university.

Also check what the TOTAL maximum for transfer credits are for the university -- that would be credits transferred from other universities (online or in-person courses) + credits transferred from CCs + credits by exam (CLEP and DANTES test scores).

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I think that she should think through what her short term and long term goals are.  

Does she need "a degree" soon for something like employment opportunities?  Will an AA fill that need or does she need a BA?

If her end goal is to get a BA, she might find that she is better served to just do that, rather than to take courses for an AA and then move to the BA.  

Reasons I say that:

-The AA may have its own specific requirements that do not contribute to completing the requirements for the BA.  

-The individual courses at the CC may not transfer to the college for the BA (ex. the community college might offer a one semester chemistry survey, but the 4 year college requires a full year of chemistry.  Because the survey course is a less in depth treatment of the material, the student still has to take two semesters at the 4 year school to meet the degree requirement.)

 

Another option to look into is "reverse transfer."  This is something that some community college systems are using.  The student has a certain number of credits, then moves on to the 4 year college.  At a certain point, the additional credits earned are able to  be transferred "down" to the community college in order to fulfill AA requirements.  The student might go on to complete the 4 year degree, but it can also serve students with broken college attendance.  https://www.communitycollegereview.com/blog/the-reverse-transfer-process

https://scvnews.com/2017/10/26/csun-partners-with-sfv-community-colleges-to-launch-reverse-transfer/

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Also unless the student is working under an articulation agreement between two schools, it is the decision of the gaining school as to whether credits transfer or not.  So College of the Canyons could have an agreement with school A that makes it fine, but school B won't accept credits that are old.  Or it could be the reverse.

FWIW,  my mom had credits from four different institutions, including an old "technical college" from the 60s, a community college, a hippy dippy college that may not have even given grades, and her final university.  I know not everything met a final degree requirement, but she was able to pull things together enough to graduate around 1990.  [I found her pins from hitting certain word per minute milestones in shorthand as a secretarial student.  I know what a big deal that was for her at the time.]  

[Lori D.]

10 hours ago, Hoggirl said:

I’m glad you posted this.  My niece may very well wind up in the same predicament if she ever chooses to return to college.  She was full-time through spring of 2012 but has been in and out part-time ever since.  Lately more out than in.  I may mention this to my sil.  

It may not be a problem if she has been able to keep under the same catalog (which would have the same required credits for the degree). Usually, full time/part time student status does not make a difference. And usually, you can take 1 semester, maybe 2, off and still continue under the same catalog. BUT... every school is different, so very wise to double check this, rather than get surprised in what you think is your last semester with the "degree check", only to discover the school has switched you to the newest catalog and you are now missing required credits... (:0

[Milknhoney]

At the university I work for, applicants with credit over 10 years old are not automatically awarded transfer credit. The transcript gets sent to the department chair of the program they are applying to, and the chair can approve the credit.

Because of this process, if someone called and asked if we give credit for courses taken over ten years ago, they wouldn't get a straight yes or no. They would have to apply for admission and go through the whole evaluation process.

It's been my observation that the chairs are usually pretty lenient about accepting the credit.

[SebastianCat]

On 6/8/2018 at 6:58 PM, Lori D. said:

Colleges change their programs and their requirements over time, so even if attending the same college with years off between starting/finishing a degree means you are starting under one catalog (with one particular set of required credits), and finishing under a different catalog (with a different particular set of required credits).

And if transferring from one school to another, even with no time off between switching, always means your previous credits will be run through the new school's registrar to determine which credits will be accepted by the new school as counting towards the degree, and which will count only as "elective" credits.

Also, some credits (whether taken at a community college or a university) can "expire". For example, credits in Computer, Medicine, Engineering, etc., can become outdated due to innovations in the STEM fields, or due to the student needing to be current in applying the medical techniques learned for the credit -- like having to re-certify for CPR/First Aid or EMT every few years, and if you let the re-certification lapse, then you have to re-take the coursework from scratch.

The bolded above was exactly my experience.   I went back to the same university to finish a degree for which I needed only ONE class when I stopped.  Because of the length of time elapsed, the degree requirements had changed and I had to work under a new catalog, which meant I needed about 8 classes instead of just the one.

They did honor all of the credits and courses that I had completed many years earlier (at that university), but all of my prerequisites had expired.   So to take an upper level course, I had to re-take the prerequisites again in some cases, because the prerequisites were only valid for a certain number of years.   

[DawnM]

22 hours ago, SebastianCat said:

The bolded above was exactly my experience.   I went back to the same university to finish a degree for which I needed only ONE class when I stopped.  Because of the length of time elapsed, the degree requirements had changed and I had to work under a new catalog, which meant I needed about 8 classes instead of just the one.

They did honor all of the credits and courses that I had completed many years earlier (at that university), but all of my prerequisites had expired.   So to take an upper level course, I had to re-take the prerequisites again in some cases, because the prerequisites were only valid for a certain number of years.   

 

 

?

[Janeway]

The degree does not expire, but the credits do. So if she never finished the degree and wants to go back, she likely has to retake a lot. While I am sure it does not apply to all colleges, the few colleges I know for sure on, the credits will expire between 5-years depending on which degree and which courses they were. For example, to go in to nursing, the math and science courses had to be within 5 yrs here.

[Crimson Wife]

It really depends on the school and beyond that, the major. Some programs set a strict time limit while others do not.

When I went back in 2015 for my 2nd bachelor's, I chose to re-take a couple classes that I'd had as part of my 1st bachelor's in the '90's. I made that decision because there has been such progress in scientists' understanding of the brain as a result of neuroimaging technology that was in its infancy during my 1st time through college. I thought it would be interesting from an intellectual standpoint to learn about that, plus I could use the GPA boost from getting a couple of additional A grades.

Well, it's a good thing I did decide to re-take those courses because some (though not all) of the grad schools I'm applying to have a 5 year time limit on the pre-requisites. So if I'd gotten transfer credit for the old coursework, I would not be eligible to apply to certain master's programs.

[BlsdMama]

I started back to school a couple years ago and had to report *every* school I'd ever attended and have transcripts sent.  Now, what the receiving college will accept towards a degree may vary widely. 

I did precisely what your friend is considering - transferred my credits to the local CC, finished my AA, transferred the AA to the state U.  It was the most direct and least expensive route.  The CC and the U have a transfer agreement and they take the AA as a whole - and then add their 60 hours of requirements on top of the AA to graduate with the Bachelors. 

ETA: My classes were from 1996-1998, so approximately 20 years ago.  They accepted approximately 30 of the credits and rejected about 12-15.

[8filltheheart]

On 6/8/2018 at 6:14 PM, 8FillTheHeart said:

FWIW, my ds is transferring his credits to a different state.  It still has not appeared to be a problem.  I guess we will know for sure in the next couple of weeks b/c 2 of the credits are prereqs for what he wants to take next semester.

Update: all of my ds's credits were accepted.

[DawnM]

Well, she has gone to the school but never did ask the question.  Now she is saying she isn't sure she wants to go back, etc....she gets $1500 for welfare for herself and $500 additional for her kid (or something like that) and says she does better not working and not paying any daycare.

I still think that at some point she will wish she had at least down some schooling online, but, I can't make her.

 

[Reefgazer]

Most colleges I know of around here have credits that expire, typically after 5-7 years.  Degrees don't seem to expire, but credits do, and she will likely have to start over unless she has other, more recent credits.  Some places will give her "life experience" credits for certain jobs, travels, etc...  For example, the college where I teach gives history life experience credit to some military personnel who spent time overseas.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Reefgazer