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Read the World book discussion: The Great Passage


Amira
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It’s June 4th and I hope we’re ready to talk about this book.  @soror @Big Buckin' Longhorn @linders

Here are some questions to get started, but feel free to post others or talk about anything you like about the book.

What did you think?  Did you like the characters?  Have you read other books like this?  Have you read other books set in Japan? Has anyone seen the TV series? 

I kept thinking about the challenges of translating this book.  I love books about words and reading one from a Japanese perspective was lovely.

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4 hours ago, Amira said:

It’s June 4th and I hope we’re ready to talk about this book.  @soror @Big Buckin' Longhorn @linders

Here are some questions to get started, but feel free to post others or talk about anything you like about the book.

What did you think?  

Did you like the characters?  Have you read other books like this?  Have you read other books set in Japan? Has anyone seen the TV series? 

I kept thinking about the challenges of translating this book.  I love books about words and reading one from a Japanese perspective was lovely.

 

Could there be a book more perfect for homeschoolers? A book about the nuances and power and poetry in words? "A dictionary is a ship that crosses the sea of words."

I was clueless regarding the challenges and intricacies of developing a dictionary, yet once revealed, those challenges were obvious, and I very much enjoyed learning about the process.

I loved all the characters, their dedication to their chosen passions (not just the lexicographers, but Kayuga) and their kindness to each other. I loved Majime, whose hobby is "watching people get on elevators," develop from a fumbling, rather isolated young man into a capable leader with a strong network of people. My favorite character might be Nishioka. He does not share the passion of the lexicographers, and early in the book I thought he was destined to be the sarcastic cynic, but that didn't really happen. Instead, he served as a bit of an outsider, perhaps like the reader, looking in and marveling at the eccentricities and passion of the others and doing whatever he could to bolster them.

The only books I've read set in Japan had an earlier setting, where WWII played a role. It was refreshing to read one set in modern-day Japan, with the culture and implicit in the characters lives. I have read some reviews criticizing the translation - maybe I just don't know enough, but it seemed excellent to me. The writing was clear and spare and poetic.

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This was not my first book I’ve read set in Japan but I do think it was the first book I’ve read that was originally Japanese. 

I had a little bit of trouble getting into the book, I think partly because of reading it on my Kindle app. When it felt like a new chapter it was just a new paragraph so it took a bit to get use to jumping around between time or characters.

I really enjoyed the the attention to detail that went into writing a dictionary. It was something that I never thought about and now I’m curious to look up various simple words like man and woman to see how they are described. The time and effort required were a bit astonishing. 

I’m not sure who my favorite character is, maybe Majime because we saw him grow from quite a confused young man into a confident manager. Early on even understanding the emotions of other people was difficult for him but in the end he seemed to understand others throughly. I appreciated Kishibe and Nishioka too though. Neither one of them had any interest in writing or editing a dictionary, but they embraced the project and it probably could not have been completed without either of them.

I wish I could read Japanese! I imagine the poetry would have been so much more  meaningful in its original form. 

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I too thought this was the perfect selection for a former homeschooler.  Like the development of The Great Passage, there are so many intricacies to homeschooling well that others do not realize. I didn’t even realize until I was in the thick of it! The focus on words and the subtle shifts of meaning was so fascinating.  As a former writing tutor (don’t judge me by my forum posts, LOL), words have always been a passion of mine as well.  

My son grew up with a huge interest (Read: OBSESSION) in Japan, Japanese language, and Japanese culture, so this book thrust me into the woes of nostalgia, LOL.  He’s all grown up and moved away now, so it really pulled at my mommy-heart-strings.  I was mainly exposed to anime and watching my son play Japanese video games, but it’s been a while.  This felt more controlled and focused than that, so familiar but different at the same time. 

I also loved how the book described both dictionary construction and food preparation and service with such beautiful detail.  I’m not a foodie, because I am always dieting and rarely enjoy eating (another topic altogether), but it really demonstrated the true identities of the two main characters, Majime and Kaguya.  I think the attention to word detail allowed us to feel Majime’s passion, while the attention to food detail allowed us to feel Kaguya’s passions as a burgeoning chef in a unique way. 

Majime’s character development over the course of the novel was also fascinating. I enjoyed the voyeristic experience when one character described him as “creepy.”  I, the reader, had already began to like him.  I was surprised at how defensive and protective I felt over him!  That was the moment I realized how invested in the characters I was, which is really the hallmark of good writing.  

Needless to say, I really enjoyed it! 

 

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I'll be the odd one out & say I tried this book but didn't finish. I found the style stilted & the story itself slow (too slow). It just never pulled me in. The characters were fine but I felt mostly neutral about them. I did find some of the small details interesting as I worked for Japanese companies for about ten years -- so small mentions of business etiquette brought back some memories for me. I'm glad others have enjoyed it & found beauty in it.

I'll answer some of your other questions from the original post, Amira.

Have I read something else like this? Not exactly, but I did read the non-fiction book The Professor and the Madman: A Tale of Murder, Insanity and the Making of the Oxford English Dictionary by Simon Winchester many years ago. It went into the making of the Oxford English Dictionary, so I was familiar with the epic task that dictionary-makers face. If you haven't read this one & enjoy non-fiction, I would highly recommend it.

Have I read other books set in Japan? Yes. Looking back through my Goodreads listings, here are some that I've read & would recommend (in case anyone is looking to read more Japanese books or ones with Japanese settings...)

  • Kokoro by Natsume Sōseki (I read this because in 2016, a robot of Sōseki was unveiled on the 100th anniversary of his death. I think the intent was partially to have him teach university classes, but I'm not sure if that fully happened. If you're curious about the robot, see here, here, & here. Also, related to the reading of The Great Passage, I saw somewhere -- can't remember where -- that the boarding house set-up was in homage to Sōseki's book Kokoro, which prominently features a boarding house; sort-of a bow to classic Japanese literature.)
  • Kitchen by Banana Yoshimoto (I will admit I first picked up this book because the author's name is Banana!)
  • The Devotion of Suspect X by Keigo Higashino (This won the Edgar Award, among others. It's an interesting take on a murder mystery because you know 'who-done-it' from the beginning of the book. The book instead focuses on the investigation & who will win the game of cat & mouse -- the killer or the police?)
  • A Tale for the Time Being by Ruth Ozeki (Loved, loved this book. It is set in both the US & in Japan.)
  • Silk by Alessandro Baricco (A lovely, bittersweet piece of perfection.)
  • In Ghostly Japan by Lafcadio Hearn (A fascinating collection of Japanese folk tales told through the lens of a Westerner's eyes in turn-of-the-century Japan.)
  • Rashomon and Other Stories by Ryūnosuke Akutagawa (Another collection. Somewhat reminded me of Aesop's fables in that a simple tale can provide food for thought, a trick, or a moral to ponder. )
  • 101 Unuseless Japanese Inventions by Kenji Kawakami (A frivolous way to spend an hour. Presents the Japanese art of chindogu in which items are designed to be almost, but not quite, useful in real life.)
  • Silence Once Begun by Jesse Ball. (By an American author with a story set in Japan. Unique & fascinating.)
  • The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet by David Mitchell
  • Harp of Burma by Michio Takeyama (Concerns a troop of Japanese soldiers in Burma during WWII.)
  • Memoirs of a Geisha by Arthur Golden (I think just about everyone has read this book.)
  • Author Haruki Murakami (Last but certainly not least, I include Murakami by name because I've read quite a few of his books. If you're going to read contemporary Japanese literature, Murakami is your author. Be aware that his books are bizarre & unusual & may not appeal to everyone. In addition to reading quite a bit of his fiction, I read his non-fiction book Underground: The Tokyo Gas Attack and the Japanese Psyche last year. It was interesting & thought-provoking & not a typical non-fiction book.)
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There's a TV series? Oh my goodness, I didn't know that but I kept thinking how it felt like a TV show. I was thinking of The Office set in Japan but, now that I know it exists, I can totally see how The Great Passage would make a good miniseries. The characters feel a bit like sit-com characters, particularly Majime and Nishioka in the beginning and Majime and Kishibe in the end. Some of the interactions are good sit-com set ups too.

I enjoyed the book a lot. I needed something light with a happy ending and this filled the bill nicely. It's so much lighter than A River in Darkness or Pachinko. I enjoyed focusing on the positive elements of Japanese society for a change. The process of building a dictionary is so exacting that it seems like it would be an impossible topic for a book, but I was wrong. There were enough stories to keep the characters interacting. I'm sure the time jump helps though. A 15 year slog would have worn me down.

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On 6/4/2018 at 2:04 AM, Amira said:

 

Here are some questions to get started, but feel free to post others or talk about anything you like about the book.

What did you think?  Did you like the characters?  Have you read other books like this?  Have you read other books set in Japan? Has anyone seen the TV series? 

I kept thinking about the challenges of translating this book.  I love books about words and reading one from a Japanese perspective was lovely.

I'm just catching up. Some of you know from facebook and elsewhere that my FIL passed away recently and today was the funeral. I don't say that to bring you all down - he was 92 years old and lived a full, amazing life right to the end. 

I liked the book. It was definitely slow at times and even as short as it was I think some things could have been edited out as they seemed to repeat things. With translated fiction though, I'm never sure if it's the story or the translator. I found it really interesting to learn all that goes in to the making of a dictionary. I thought I bookmarked it but can't find where it mentioned the number of words. At the time I wondered how it compared to other dictionaries and also if a dictionary in a language that uses characters will necessarily be longer. The answer isn't that clear cut. There's a Swedish dictionary that has more words than a Japanese dictionary, but a Korean dictionary tops the list for most words. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dictionaries_by_number_of_words

I liked the characters even though a few of them were somewhat two dimensional, Mrs. Sasaki in particular was a bit flat. I was glad NIshioka didn't just disappear after he was transferred out. It would have been disappointing to get to know him only to never hear of him again. 

I haven't read any other books like this one but I've read books set in Japan, both by English authors and translated books by Japanese authors. I had no idea there's a tv series. Does anyone know where to find it? Possibly Netflix or Amazon? 

Did anyone else open dictionaries as a kid and look for unfamiliar words or was I just a total nerd? I used to like to just browse through our dictionary. 

This was really a book of love stories - Majime and Kaguya, Nishioka and <I forget her name>, the professor and Mrs. Matsumoto, Miss Kishibe and Miyamoto. It's also about a love of food and cooking, and finding a career you love and being able to follow it where it takes you. And of course, a love of words.

I finished it last week and with all that was going on in our family I'm glad I made some highlights. This is from the last chapter (not the final love letter but the last chapter of the book). I really liked this quote.

"Human beings had created words to communicate with the dead, and with those yet unborn."

 

 

 

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On 6/4/2018 at 2:02 PM, Stacia said:

 

Have I read something else like this? Not exactly, but I did read the non-fiction book The Professor and the Madman: A Tale of Murder, Insanity and the Making of the Oxford English Dictionary by Simon Winchester many years ago. It went into the making of the Oxford English Dictionary, so I was familiar with the epic task that dictionary-makers face. If you haven't read this one & enjoy non-fiction, I would highly recommend it.

 

This looks interesting. I added it to my library wish list.

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25 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

I'm just catching up. Some of you know from facebook and elsewhere that my FIL passed away recently and today was the funeral. I don't say that to bring you all down - he was 92 years old and lived a full, amazing life right to the end. 

Did anyone else open dictionaries as a kid and look for unfamiliar words or was I just a total nerd? I used to like to just browse through our dictionary. 

I do remember looking up words as a kid. I still have a pocket dictionary my mom gave me, my kids have fun with it. I also remember a boy in middle school who read the entire dictionary. At the time I thought it was so strange, but now I can see he was thirsting for knowledge.  

I am sorry for your loss!

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I have enjoyed reading everyone's replies. I have a difficult time adding to these types of discussions because everyone else expresses similar thoughts that I had about the book!

What did you think?  

Ultimately I enjoyed this book. It was a slow start and not a book I would choose based on the description.  It ended up being exactly what I needed since the last books I read were a bit sad and disturbing. 

I felt the main message of the story was finding what and who you love, be passionate about life and what you do while allowing those around you to do the same. 

Did you like the characters?

i did like the characters. I felt the characters are what drove me to finish the book. I have to admit I was disappointed when the story jumped in time and Nishioka was not a main part of the story. I was glad he was included in the ending. 

 Have you read other books like this?

i have not read other books like this and this book was not one I would have chosen on my own. That is one of the big reasons I like read alongs like this!

 Have you read other books set in Japan?

According to my Goodreads account I have read two other books set in Japan. 

Colorless Tsukuru Tazaki and His Years of Pilgrimage by Haruki Murakami

Initially I did not remember this book and had to read a summary. I must have enjoyed it since I gave it 4 out of 5 stars. 

The other book is one of my favorites and is written by one of my favorite authors - The Thousand Autumn's of Jacob de Zoet.  What I remember most about this book is not the story but the beautiful, poetic writing. 

Has anyone seen the TV series?

No, I didn't realize there was one. I am not sure this book would transfer well to tv for me. 

 

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2 hours ago, SJ. said:

I have enjoyed reading everyone's replies. I have a difficult time adding to these types of discussions because everyone else expresses similar thoughts that I had about the book!

 

That often happens to me with read alongs.

2 hours ago, SJ. said:

I felt the main message of the story was finding what and who you love, be passionate about life and what you do while allowing those around you to do the same. 

Yes! That's kind of what I was trying to say but you said it better and more succinctly. 

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I'm sorry my brain is utterly fried, I cannot even think, too much going on. 

I enjoyed the glimpse into Japanese culture. I was utterly fascinated by how much they worked and how it was normal to literally live at the office, to make a dictionary, seriously. 

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2 minutes ago, Amira said:

Something I’ve wondered more generally is why amazon picked the books it did for these free downloads. 

Do you think part-time American college students would work that intensely for a dictionary?

Weren't they volunteers? I am going to say no. 

Well, maybe some would. I think the passion of majime and the rest made the students feel as if they were a part of something, and that is something I think we all crave, especially those still growing up and figuring out who they are. 

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8 hours ago, Amira said:

Something I’ve wondered more generally is why amazon picked the books it did for these free downloads. 

Do you think part-time American college students would work that intensely for a dictionary?

I don’t know about the other books, but this one was originally part of the Kindle Free Reads (I may have the title wrong) program they do every month. Prime members get to choose a free book from a few books that will be released the following month. 

I don’t think the average American college student would work that intensely on a dictionary. However, I could see a small group of linguistic students working hard on it. While American students have a bad reputation for hard work, I know of many who are highly dedicated in their areas of interest. 

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The book began a little slow for me, and I kept wondering where the story was going to go. It picked up for me after Nishioka realized he had changed. I guess that was the aspect of the story that I liked so much, the ability for people to be changed forever by something or someone that they didn't even realize was altering them. The work to create the dictionary and the time spent with others in that environment impacted everyone in different ways. I always enjoy reading about how people's lives are impacted by others, even in a fictional story. 

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Ack.  This totally slipped my mind (we’re in the middle of an international move).  I randomly picked Ten Women for our next book.  It’s 250 pages.  When shall we start the discussion for this one?  June 25th?  July 2nd?  Something else?  

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53 minutes ago, Amira said:

Ack.  This totally slipped my mind (we’re in the middle of an international move).  I randomly picked Ten Women for our next book.  It’s 250 pages.  When shall we start the discussion for this one?  June 25th?  July 2nd?  Something else?  

I’m good with either. 

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11 minutes ago, SJ. said:

I am fine with either but since you are moving would the later date you mentioned work better?

We’re not going to be settled in our new place till September, so no time before then is better than another.  Either date is good for me.

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