ktgrok Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 A friend of mine has 3 kids. The oldest has always picked up things like reading and math on his own. They mostly unschooled and it worked well for him. Her middle child is 7 and still doesn't know her alphabet. I encouraged her to do the Barton screening and she failed part C, like got almost all of them wrong. She's looking at the Barton recommended Foundation in Sound and I'm not finding any reviews of it here, which seems odd to me. Maybe I'm just not finding them? Any thoughts? Oh, I also suggested she take her to see an audiologist and get a full hearing test done. In the meantime she's got some of my books on phonemic awareness and dyslexia and is going to try to do some stuff on her own. Money IS an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 FIS is a fully-scripted replacement for LIPS. It was developed by someone in the Barton community and mirrors the scripting of Barton, making it open and go, an expensive but easy alternative to recommend. LIPS intimidates some people, has a learning curve, and is not fully scripted. If she can borrow your LIPS, she does not need FIS. If the dc has extensive speech problems, as mine did, then LIPS might be preferred. That's an unusual situation, so that's probably why Barton has moved on to recommending only FIS, dunno. Are you saying she is now listing ONLY FIS? Before she was listing both. The old threads have been disappearing, even from site searches. LIPS was developed by an SLP and is a more flexible tool for someone who needs the face magnets. FIS makes more sense for most of the market, and the small amount of feedback we've seen around here has been fine. If we slam it or question it, someone comes out of the woodwork and says we're horrible. It's probably fine. There's no reason to think it's not fine. It's just not necessary if she has access to your LIPS materials. They're conceptually identical. As long as she can get LIPS to work, she's fine, move forward in peace. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share Posted June 1, 2018 I don't have LIPS, actually. My dd passed the Barton Screening so we did level 1 of Barton, then moved to Abecedarian. The girl in question does not have any speech issues that I know of. For right now she is going to use the phonological awareness exercises in Road to the Code, and has ordered the book Equipped for Reading Success by Kilpatrick, and is going to get her hearing tested and then if she's not making progress enough to start Barton and hearing is okay will order FIS I guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecka Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 If she is new to working on it, I have a lot of hope for Road to the Code and the other book. Its when other things have been tried with little progress that I think it is time to move up. But these are quality programs too I think, I hope they will work out well for her. She may pick it up with some direct instruction, it is very possible. Or she might show good progress. If it’s poor progress then I think that is when to move up a notch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 The thing to remember is that it's not *only* phonological processing that Barton is testing there. She's also looking at working memory. I agree there are probably multiple programs that, in theory, could work. The mom needs to be careful to make sure that her dc is building working memory, that ability to hold the sounds in her mind and do the tasks (moving the tiles, building words, whatever). It's tempting to make it easier by bringing in supports (shorter words, not requiring them to repeat the sounds, not requiring them to do the tapping. etc.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share Posted June 1, 2018 7 hours ago, Lecka said: If she is new to working on it, I have a lot of hope for Road to the Code and the other book. Its when other things have been tried with little progress that I think it is time to move up. But these are quality programs too I think, I hope they will work out well for her. She may pick it up with some direct instruction, it is very possible. Or she might show good progress. If it’s poor progress then I think that is when to move up a notch. That's pretty much what I told her. At this point she's done almost zero work with her, assuming she'd pick it up naturally like her brother. So there is a good chance that just formally working on these skills may make a big difference. 7 hours ago, PeterPan said: The thing to remember is that it's not *only* phonological processing that Barton is testing there. She's also looking at working memory. I agree there are probably multiple programs that, in theory, could work. The mom needs to be careful to make sure that her dc is building working memory, that ability to hold the sounds in her mind and do the tasks (moving the tiles, building words, whatever). It's tempting to make it easier by bringing in supports (shorter words, not requiring them to repeat the sounds, not requiring them to do the tapping. etc.) Working memory is definitely a concern, so if the phonological awareness activities are not helping, or if she sees other issues she's going to need to get a full work up. But that's going to take time, as she needs to do it through one of the free or low cost options and that means a long wait. But definitely a concern. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Well my point on the working memory was not to eval (which she clearly should do) but to say she needs to make sure her methodology is working on it. The steps of LIPS and FIS are pretty stringent, making them hold the sounds, tap them out, pull down tiles one by one, etc., because it's HARD to do that when you're working memory is low. So kids with low working memory will buck it, wanting to rush ahead without tapping out sounds, wanting to rush rush, because their deficits are letting the sounds slip out while they wait. So watch a video of someone doing LIPS or FIS and see the steps. It's just like Barton actually. Think about how much she has to hold in her head while she does Barton. So I'm saying don't let the mom inadvertently skirt the working memory part of whatever program she's doing. Encourage her to do all those steps (say the word, tap out the sounds, pull them down one by one, read it back). If the kid is squirming, that's a good sign that she's really taxing her working memory and getting her to work. Build longer and longer words. She can also use games that build working memory as motivators and breaks. And yes, she should go ahead and make her written request for evals through the ps if that's her plan. She's going to need to be able to demonstrate she has done the equivalent of RTI, some kind of tier 3 intervention. They're not gonna be happy if she hasn't done that for at least 6 weeks. So to me, get a month under her belt of doing serious intervention and if it's still not clicking make the request. Or make the request now and begin now. Legally they're supposed to fit RTI within the IEP timeline, meaning they're not supposed to delay. But they're definitely going to want to see it, yeah. What's her path after she gets the phonological processing going? Is she going to borrow your Barton? She has another plan? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exercise_guru Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 I think an audiologist screening is a very good idea for Auditory processing but if money is an issue I would strongly suggest hearbuilder with rewards over the summer. It covers a lot and she could start with the trial. If she sits with headphones with her 7 year old then she will quickly know where the holes are in the sound and phonological awareness. Some of parts of hearbuilder may feel a bit babyish but the auditory memory is awesome and my 10 year old is almost finished with it. I think it is very affordable If it is auditory processing and linking sounds to words then Fast Forword is worth it. It is around 1100 through a home online program that lasts a year. My son has auditory processing and fast forword has been life changing for him. Fast Forword has several levels. The foundation is sound to words and training the auditory pathways. Sometimes the child takes off in reading from that. Then there are 6 levels of reading support. both of these programs start at the sound level and link the sound to words and language but with different approaches. we used the online as well as the IPAD for it and I sit with my son and give support if needed. We aim for 30 minutes a day 6 days a week. It was well well worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share Posted June 1, 2018 She’s going to buy Barton once she is ready for it. I already sold my level 1 but have level 2 when/if she needs it. We switched to Abecedarian after level one and it’s going well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share Posted June 1, 2018 I sent her the link to Hearbuilder yesterday! Thankfully she can get the audiologist stuff done for free. It’s one of the few good low cost things in our area. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 There is a used LiPS manual for $46. I just got one for my student with phonological processing issues. It is well scripted and has a lot in there: https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0890797536/ref=tmm_other_meta_binding_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=1527873727&sr=8-4 There are some free to print lip position with sounds at Teachers pay teachers. My student is doing fine with them combined, but she could make two copies and cut off the letters to have a set that does not combine mouth/lip position and letters. https://www.teacherspayteachers.com/Product/Speech-Sound-Cue-Cards-Freebie-2196455 With only one 30 minute session with LiPS, my student made a lot of progress. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistyMountain Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 On June 1, 2018 at 9:05 AM, exercise_guru said: I think an audiologist screening is a very good idea for Auditory processing but if money is an issue I would strongly suggest hearbuilder with rewards over the summer. It covers a lot and she could start with the trial. If she sits with headphones with her 7 year old then she will quickly know where the holes are in the sound and phonological awareness. Some of parts of hearbuilder may feel a bit babyish but the auditory memory is awesome and my 10 year old is almost finished with it. I think it is very affordable If it is auditory processing and linking sounds to words then Fast Forword is worth it. It is around 1100 through a home online program that lasts a year. My son has auditory processing and fast forword has been life changing for him. Fast Forword has several levels. The foundation is sound to words and training the auditory pathways. Sometimes the child takes off in reading from that. Then there are 6 levels of reading support. both of these programs start at the sound level and link the sound to words and language but with different approaches. we used the online as well as the IPAD for it and I sit with my son and give support if needed. We aim for 30 minutes a day 6 days a week. It was well well worth it. I know a lot of people will say hear builder is not enough or FIS or LiPs would be better but I decided to try hear builder over a summer when I had a child fail the screening and it did work. I did not let her do it independently and sat and helped through the parts that were hard. Once she finished hear builder she passed the screening and was able to do Barton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 On the LIPS manuals, I think there was a major change between editions. So if ElizabethB has a different cover, hers might have the scripted lessons. That's what mine has. I thought I had read the previous edition did NOT have the scripted lessons. If that's the case, the $46 older edition would not be a good deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exercise_guru Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Fastforword really works on processing and hearing the sounds. Then it later much later links those sound to letters. They have found kids who are poor readers are unable to hear the leading sounds or sometimes the vowels in the sounds. I can't speak necessarily to Dyslexia because my son had CAPD but the progress he made in hearing and differentiating sounds was amazing after doing fast FastForword. My son excelled at everything in fast forword but the 500HZ range. He clunked through those for months until he mastered them. Also there was a fast moving sound exercise that he struggled with in fastforword but when he mastered it you could tell because his percentages shot through the roof. He made amazing growth after this program in binaural listening and comprehension. His reading improved as well but it was already high. We combined fast forword and the auditory portion of hearbuilder. There is darn good listening and phonetic differentiation in Hearbuilder especially if you sit with your child and encourage and note where the weaknesses area. sometimes a child is only missing a few skills not all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 On June 2, 2018 at 2:16 PM, PeterPan said: On the LIPS manuals, I think there was a major change between editions. So if ElizabethB has a different cover, hers might have the scripted lessons. That's what mine has. I thought I had read the previous edition did NOT have the scripted lessons. If that's the case, the $46 older edition would not be a good deal. My copy is 1998 and has the cover shown in the Amazon link from my earlier post. I would ask the seller prior to ordering to make sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.