District say they don't think ds can take PSATs - what to do now?

[summerreading]

I emailed the guidance counselor at our local HS about my 15 year old taking the PSATs. I think this is the first time they have dealt with this as no one homeschools here. She said they are not an official testing site so that brings in the issue of insurance to have someone not enrolled take it. It took a while to get this answer and now May is ending. Will I still be able to sign him up somewhere? And where should I look? I though our district was the only option.

[Garga]

You don’t have to take the test in your own district. Call schools farther out and call private schools as well.  See what they say. 

 

And I’m not sure whether their response to you is hooey or not.  It sounds like hooey to me, but I don’t know.

[Kim C]

Definitely check with private schools in your area. My ds took the PSAT at  private school the first time and then at the local public school. 

Kim

[summerreading]

11 minutes ago, Garga said:

You don’t have to take the test in your own district. Call schools farther out and call private schools as well.  See what they say. 

 

And I’m not sure whether their response to you is hooey or not.  It sounds like hooey to me, but I don’t know.

 

Would any private schools be listed on the college board site or should I just call any and all?

My district is blue ribbon, I think I might be the first homeschooler they have dealt with. 

[Lanny]

The PSAT/NMSQT in October of the Junior year is critical because of the NM part of it and also, if your DC is "Hispanic" there is a National Hispanic Recognition Program associated with the PSAT/NMSQT. An academic honor, if one qualifies for it. 

Good luck on finding a nearby school that is willing to host your DC!

[klmama]

I would just call around to nearby schools.  When I was looking for a testing site, I found two local private schools and one public school in a neighboring town that were all willing to let my dc test with their students.  When you find out a school is willing to let your dc take the test, be sure to ask about testing conditions - do they do it in classrooms or in an auditorium?    I chose the school that used classrooms, since I knew my dc would have difficulty using the smaller auditorium-style desks and would be distracted by having several hundred kids in the same room.  It may not matter to your dc, but it's good to know going in so there are no surprises.

[rjand6more]

Yep. You just need to find a school willing to allow a HS student.  I had to call around for dd"s AP test too.  It's ridiculous.

[Arcadia]

3 hours ago, Garga said:

And I’m not sure whether their response to you is hooey or not.  It sounds like hooey to me, but I don’t know.

 

OP,

Try the private schools, their site insurance is usually higher and covers visitors as well on the entire school grounds during office hours (which is longer than school hours).

Garga,

I have to sign liability waivers for private events that are hosted in public schools which state that I would not sue the school unless it can be proven as gross negligence by the school. Parent volunteers at my nearest public schools have to sign a liability waiver too as well as take a TB test every two years. 

[skimomma]

Good luck.  We are in the same boat.  There are no private schools within a two hour radius and all public schools will not allow dd to take the PSAT.  There is no reason stated, just that they will not help homeschoolers.  The hoops we jumped through to find a place for dd to take her first (and apparently last) AP exam was ridiculous.  Dd is not going to take the PSAT.  I give up.

[plansrme]

3 hours ago, summerreading said:

so that brings in the issue of insurance to have someone not enrolled take it.

They may not let you take the test there, but this is complete B.S.  Everyone's insurance covers visitors to their premises--the mail carrier, the sales rep, the UPS guy, customers, students, parents, fans at a sporting event, the other team at a robotics competition.  What a stupid reason for them to give you.  Keep calling; another public school in the same or a neighboring district may give you a different answer, as could any private school.  Every high school gives the PSAT--someone out there will say "yes."

[Garga]

4 hours ago, summerreading said:

 

Would any private schools be listed on the college board site or should I just call any and all?

My district is blue ribbon, I think I might be the first homeschooler they have dealt with. 

 

I didn’t look on College Board for the PSAT since I didn’t go through College Board for the PSAT.  We took a subject test and we did need to sign up for it through College Board, but for the PSAT, I just called the local school.  And if they hadn’t have been willing to let us test there, I’d have started calling other local public schools as well as private schools.  

[regentrude]

4 minutes ago, Garga said:

I didn’t look on College Board for the PSAT since I didn’t go through College Board for the PSAT

You cannot go through the college board for the PSAT; you have to go directly to the school.

[regentrude]

I agree with pp: call around to other schools.

This said: the  PSAT is only worth it if your student has a realistic shot at National Merit Scholar. If the student is not of that caliber, I would not bother with the PSAT at all, especially since it's such a hassle. You'll be able to sign up for ACT and SAT online and won't have to beg at the school.

[Garga]

Do schools also deny homeschoolers the ability to take the SAT at them?  Or does the SAT go through College Board?  

And what are the ramifications if the OPs student took the SAT for practice and not the PSAT *if* the schools must let homeschoolers take the SAT even if they deny them the right to take the PSAT?  Would those SAT scores have to be sent to colleges?  Or could the OP not send them to colleges and use the first SAT test for practice?  

 

ETA:  Regentrude and I were posting at the same time.

[Lori D.]

The school guidance counselor is mistaken -- if the school is offering the PSAT test to their own students, then they will be abiding by the official PSAT testing rules as far as room size, desk distances, and number of adults to be test monitors -- which automatically makes them an "official PSAT test location".

She is possibly confusing the PSAT with the SAT or ACT, which is NOT offered at all schools, but only at specific official sites (and for those tests, students register online, so the school has no say over who is coming to their location to take the test.) Or, she may mean that their school has a policy of not working with homeschoolers, either for tests, single class enrollment, sports, or other extracurriculars (and some high schools do have a no-homeschooler policy). Or, she may mean that the school does not have the physical room and test monitor capacity to accommodate additional students and still meet the PSAT's "facility testing requirements".

But none of those situations is a legal "insurance" issue for someone not enrolled in the school to be able to take the test. Even if you were somehow not covered under the school's "guest liability" or "public" insurance, you could actually purchase "event insurance" for a single day for under $100, which would remove the school's "insurance excuse" for denying your student entrance.

Agreeing with previous posters that it might be easier to just work with a different school first. But if you do have to work with this school, I recommend by-passing the guidance counselor, and calling to make an appointment to talk to the school administrator in person. Be polite. Explain that College Board permits homeschoolers to take the PSAT with public or private school students and actually instructs homeschoolers to contact a local high school in order to register through the high school.

BEST of luck in quickly getting this resolved! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Arcadia]

19 minutes ago, Garga said:

Do schools also deny homeschoolers the ability to take the SAT at them?  Or does the SAT go through College Board?  

 

SAT goes through the CollegeBoard but my local public high schools do not host the Saturday’s SAT. Their students test on a school day (Wednesday) which is not open to public.

Link is to SAT school day https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/sat/k12-educators/sat-school-day

[skimomma]

41 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

 

SAT goes through the CollegeBoard but my local public high schools do not host the Saturday’s SAT. Their students test on a school day (Wednesday) which is not open to public.

 

 

Yep.  This is how my local district is avoiding the homeschool issue.  

[Lori D.]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

...Link is to SAT school day https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/sat/k12-educators/sat-school-day

Hmmmm -- Your public high schools are using this expansion program of the SAT to the very OPPOSITE of CollegeBoard's stated purpose for the SAT School Day program (see below for a quotation from your link). Wonder how THAT would go over, if this was brought to the attention of the exclusionary schools by homeschoolers and by CollegeBoard...

"SAT School Day lets schools, districts, and states offer the SAT to juniors and seniors in school, on a weekday, expanding access to a globally recognized college admission test that's accepted at all U.S. colleges.

By breaking down barriers to access, SAT School Day can have a profound impact on a community—opening doors to college, scholarships, and financial aid for every student.

[Lanny]

OP I hope you find a school that will be willing to accept your student.  DD took the PSAT/NMSQT at the Private Brick and Mortar school ($$$$$) she attended for K4, K5 and First grade.  They did not charge us for her to take the PSAT/NMSQT.  Please note:  The College Counselor there had us pick up a test form so DD could "bubble in" the answer sheet information, before the day of the test.  Try to do that!

With regard to the SAT and the ACT examinations, I believe the schools receive a percentage of the fee one pays to the CollegeBoard or  the ACT.ORG  They are acting as a Test Center, Proctoring the exam, sending the test stuff to the respective testing organization, etc.

If they are on the web site of the testing organization, I think you just select the Testing Center you want, pay your money and you are good to go.

If those schools are shown as testing centers, you just sign up on the web site of the CollegeBoard or ACT and Print out the Ticket and comply with the other requirements,.

 

[Arcadia]

20 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Hmmmm -- Your public high schools are using this expansion program of the SAT to the very OPPOSITE of CollegeBoard's stated purpose for the SAT School Day program (see below for a quotation from your link). Wonder how THAT would go over, if this was brought to the attention of the exclusionary schools by homeschoolers and by CollegeBoard...

 

I have at least 12 testing centers within a 30mins drive from my home. To the CollegeBoard, they would probably think I already have plenty of decent choices. The “for every student” is just advertising jargon.

The SAT school day program was meant for school students to take the SAT on a school day so that the parents do not have to worry about how to get the students to school on Saturday for testing. It is also meant to provide a familiar location to the students since they are testing in their own school. Students don’t pay as schools pick up the tab.

ACT school day started in 2001 and SAT school day started in 2006. Legally, there is nothing to say schools have to offer to homeschoolers. In fact my public high school only offer the SAT on the school day to their 10th and 11th graders.  Their freshmen and seniors can’t take SAT on SAT school day. 

If you look at collegeboard website, being a test center is an opt in process and not an opt out. So high schools can just don’t offer SAT at all whether it’s on a school day or weekend. My local high schools pay for the SAT school day with donation funds since students don’t need to pay. Once the donation funds run out, they would probably stop offering it.

[summerreading]

Thanks all, I'll give some other schools a call tomorrow.

[alewife]

6 hours ago, Lori D. said:

Hmmmm -- Your public high schools are using this expansion program of the SAT to the very OPPOSITE of CollegeBoard's stated purpose for the SAT School Day program (see below for a quotation from your link). Wonder how THAT would go over, if this was brought to the attention of the exclusionary schools by homeschoolers and by CollegeBoard...

"SAT School Day lets schools, districts, and states offer the SAT to juniors and seniors in school, on a weekday, expanding access to a globally recognized college admission test that's accepted at all U.S. colleges.

By breaking down barriers to access, SAT School Day can have a profound impact on a community—opening doors to college, scholarships, and financial aid for every student.

I agree with Lori D's assessment.  

My request to have my junior sit for the SAT that was given on a Wednesday this past March at our local public school was initially denied.  The guidance counselor told me that the test was only open to students who attended the public school.  I researched the law in my state and discovered that my homeschooler had the right to take the test.  Once I cited the law, the school was very accommodating.  Many times, I think the administrators simply do not know all of the laws.

 

[CAJinBE]

My dd18 was allowed to do the PSAT at our local DoDDs school but by the time my dd16 was ready to take it the rules changed. So she never took it. No real loss here, she wasn't going to make NM scholarship qualifications anyway. It is much easier to just do the SAT at an official testing site. 

[gstharr]

Last summer, the almost new 8th grader's school would not let him because it did not want the headache of  opening it up to all middle schoolers.  I gave up on trying to find a private or public school, and even enrichment center that would let him.  We started prepping for the SAT instead. No need for permission. Almost signed up to take it at his school for spite, but decided against it.  Any way he takes the SAT tomorrow.  

[mirabillis]

my ds couldn't take his at our local high school either. in fact, i called 3 nearby high schools, all said no. called a local private school, said no. finally found a small private christian high school to say yes.keep trying. and just because the psat test is hard to find placement, these same schools were all more willing for AP exams. so don't fret. also, SATs and ACTs you sign up online and anyone can take - so again that's not an issue there either.

[catz]

I've never been able to sign my kid up for the PSAT before school started in the fall.  I don't think it's bad to get the lay of the land now, but don't be surprised to hear call back in the fall.  

I had to call like 6 schools when my junior took it last fall but then found a very easy and welcoming school.  Though I do have regrets not making a few more calls because the testing set up was not ideal at that school.

[catz]

Is he going to be a junior in the fall?  You could also just have him do the SAT or ACT.  My oldest started the ACT in middle school.  It's SO much easier to sign up for those tests.

[summerreading]

On 5/31/2018 at 11:50 AM, Garga said:

 

I didn’t look on College Board for the PSAT since I didn’t go through College Board for the PSAT.  We took a subject test and we did need to sign up for it through College Board, but for the PSAT, I just called the local school.  And if they hadn’t have been willing to let us test there, I’d have started calling other local public schools as well as private schools.  

 

I just meant they have a school search lookup feature on their site https://ordering.collegeboard.org/testordering/publicSearch

 

I just want to make sure I understand this right, sorry I am pretty new to figuring out this high school thing

So they can take the PSAT in sophomore and junior year, but only junior year counts for scholarships, is that right? Is there any disadvantage if he takes it sophomore year and does bad. I just want the first year for practice. 

 

[summerreading]

3 hours ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Is he going to be a junior in the fall?  You could also just have him do the SAT or ACT.  My oldest started the ACT in middle school.  It's SO much easier to sign up for those tests.

 

 

No, sophomore. 

[Lori D.]

31 minutes ago, summerreading said:

I just want to make sure I understand this right, sorry I am pretty new to figuring out this high school thing... So they can take the PSAT in sophomore and junior year, but only junior year counts for scholarships, is that right? Is there any disadvantage if he takes it sophomore year and does bad. I just want the first year for practice.

Correct -- 10th gr. (or earlier) is practice, while the score in 11th grade "counts", as it is what is used by National Merit for determining semi-finalist and finalist status, which can lead to scholarships. You can also have DS practice at home with PSAT prep and practice tests.

CollegeBoard also created the PSAT-10 a few years ago, specifically for 10th graders, given in the spring of 10th grade, as practice for the original PSAT. If the school also offers the PSAT-10, then they probably don't allow students under grade 11 to take the regular PSAT. (There is also the PSAT 8/9 specifically for grade 8-9 students, also given in the spring.)

[mirabillis]

we've taken it in both 9th & 10th so far - dry runs, so to speak. great especially for homeschoolers, imo, as it's a cheap test and good to get them used to sitting in a classroom/auditorium with a bunch of other kids bubbling in answers. that whole standardized testing thing that for many of us, is new. 

and we couldn't call until fall (september) but don't be alarmed if one says no. keep trying.

[bibsandmegs]

I have a dd in the local public school.  I asked them if my other dd (who was homeschooled, now in college) could take the PSAT there, they said no.  I called another school, in the same district, and was told sure.  We’ve done all our testing, PSAT, ACT, and AP at this other school for our homeschoolers.  They are very accommodating.  Crazy that the school where I have a child attending won’t be accommodating.  Call other schools around!

[alewife]

4 hours ago, kand said:

This was exactly my experience. Can you share what state you are in? Several states have laws that require public schools to offer homeschoolers within their attendance area access to whatever programs (including tests) are offered to their enrolled students. Our local high school didn’t realize this initially either. 

Ohio.  The state passed a law around 4 years ago that gave homeschoolers and private schooled kids access to the extracurriculars at the public schools.  However, prior to access to extracurriculars was granted, there was a law on the books that stated that homeschoolers had a right to access to any standardized test that was given to public schooled kids.  My kids have been taking the PSAT at our high school since they were 13 years old (My oldest is now 21) and I used this score to satisfy my state's testing requirement for the year in lieu of a teacher evaluation. The school initially denied my kids access to the PSAT, too, until I showed them the law.  

I think that administrators have a difficult time keeping up with all the laws that affect the public schools and have no idea about the educational laws pertaining to homeschoolers.  When the law was passed 4 years ago permitting homeschoolers to play on sports at the public school, I went down to sign my kids up.  This time, I came prepared and had a copy of the law with me.  Sure enough, the administration knew nothing about the new law.  However, this time around, the administration said that they needed to check with the Ohio Athletic Association to see if they were going to permit my kids to play despite the fact that state law required them to do so.  I thought that spoke volumes about the ridiculous control that the OHHAA has, but I digress....

[EKS]

On 5/31/2018 at 8:56 AM, regentrude said:

This said: the  PSAT is only worth it if your student has a realistic shot at National Merit Scholar. If the student is not of that caliber, I would not bother with the PSAT at all, especially since it's such a hassle. 

This.  In order to have a shot at being a NMSF, in states with high cutoffs, the student can literally only miss like one or two questions per section.

[Lori D.]

23 minutes ago, EKS said:

This.  In order to have a shot at being a NMSF, in states with high cutoffs, the student can literally only miss like one or two questions per section.

Very true!

Although if the student is at least 1/4 Latino, a 97% (rather than 99%) score can qualify the student for the National Hispanic Recognition Program (which is also based on PSAT scores in 11th grade).

[Roadrunner]

On 5/31/2018 at 11:47 AM, Arcadia said:

 

I have at least 12 testing centers within a 30mins drive from my home. To the CollegeBoard, they would probably think I already have plenty of decent choices. The “for every student” is just advertising jargon.

 

 

How many of those also do APs? How do you find testing centers? 

[Arcadia]

57 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

How many of those also do APs? How do you find testing centers? 

 

I don’t know as my kids take their AP exams at a private center in Cupertino for last year and this year.

[Roadrunner]

15 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

 

I don’t know as my kids take their AP exams at a private center in Cupertino for last year and this year.

 

How early do you have to sign up to get a spot with the Cupertino one? 

[Lori D.]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

... APs? How do you find testing centers? 

Here's the College Board steps & dates for what to do as a homeschooler to sign up for AP tests.

The upshot for finding a testing location is in this pdf file:

"Contact AP Services for Students to get information about nearby AP coordinators:
     phone: 888-225-5427 (toll free in U.S. and Canada)
     phone: 212-632-1780
     email: apstudents@info.collegeboard.org
By March 15, contact those AP coordinators to see if one of them can arrange testing for you. Let the coordinator know that you’re trying to find a school willing to administer AP Exams to outside students. Not all schools administer every AP Exam, so also tell the coordinator which exams you’d like to take."

[Roadrunner]

Is there a database to find out which school is offering which AP? I can’t find it.

[Arcadia]

16 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

How early do you have to sign up to get a spot with the Cupertino one? 

 

‘I signed up around March for the Cupertino one https://legendcp.com/ap-review/#

The Los Altos one is this one http://www.sileducation.org/ap2018/

daijobu’s daughter’s took their AP exams at a public school so you might want to PM her. They are too far north for us to drive since we are nearer to Cupertino and Los Altos.

[Lori D.]

9 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Is there a database to find out which school is offering which AP? I can’t find it.

No. It looks like you contact CollegeBoard via one of those above phone or email contact methods, let them know where you are located and how far you're willing to drive to go to an AP test site, and they will provide you with a list of the AP coordinators (i.e. overseers at the schools that will be hosting the AP tests), and then you contact the coordinators to find out which tests they will be offering, and if they will have room for your student. The legwork is largely up to you, the homeschooler, to contact and sign up with the AP coordinator at the school that is holding the AP tests.

[Roadrunner]

4 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

No. It looks like you contact CollegeBoard via one of those above phone or email contact methods, let them know where you are located and how far you're willing to drive to go to an AP test site, and they will provide you with a list of the AP coordinators (i.e. overseers at the schools that will be hosting the AP tests), and then you contact the coordinators to find out which tests they will be offering, and if they will have room for your student. The legwork is largely up to you, the homeschooler, to contact and sign up with the AP coordinator at the school that is holding the AP tests.

 

I have seen a database before. I am thinking they pulled it down, but I know it was there several years ago.

[Arcadia]

18 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I have seen a database before. I am thinking they pulled it down, but I know it was there several years ago.

 

Maybe you are thinking of the AP course ledger https://apcourseaudit.inflexion.org/ledger/

However that does not tally with exams that would be offered as those are courses that have approved syllabus for the year and not what the school would be definitely offering. 

[alewife]

5 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

Is there a database to find out which school is offering which AP? I can’t find it.

I don't know about a database, but it is possible that your public school will proctor the exam for your child even if the school isn't offering the exam to its student population.  My public school has done this numerous times for my kids as the school doesn't offer AP Chemistry every year and never offers the Physics C exams.  

Good luck finding a testing site.  

[Sebastian (a lady)]

11 hours ago, Lori D. said:

Here's the College Board steps & dates for what to do as a homeschooler to sign up for AP tests.

The upshot for finding a testing location is in this pdf file:

"Contact AP Services for Students to get information about nearby AP coordinators:
     phone: 888-225-5427 (toll free in U.S. and Canada)
     phone: 212-632-1780
     email: apstudents@info.collegeboard.org
By March 15, contact those AP coordinators to see if one of them can arrange testing for you. Let the coordinator know that you’re trying to find a school willing to administer AP Exams to outside students. Not all schools administer every AP Exam, so also tell the coordinator which exams you’d like to take."

 

The problem with the College Board guidance is that by March 15 most schools are done ordering their exams. It can be tough to get one that will do a late order for a non-registered student.

[Lori D.]

10 hours ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

 

The problem with the College Board guidance is that by March 15 most schools are done ordering their exams. It can be tough to get one that will do a late order for a non-registered student.

Absolutely! One should start looking in early fall of the school year that the student will take the exam (if not sooner!) -- and certainly have a site lined up no later than January, if at all possible.

[mirabillis]

i find that ledger list to be pretty thorough. if they're offering the class, they are giving the exam. that's how we have found ap exam locations nearby

[2_girls_mommy]

haven't read all of these, but the nice thing about doing the PSAT10 in the sophomore year is that it links your college board account to Kahn Academy. Then your child actually gets walked through the problems they missed and how to do them. And it then creates a study guide directly for them on what they need to work on for the exam. You can still do SAT practice for free on Kahn academy, but the link up after the PSAT10 is really nice and still free. So I would keep calling around and trying to find a spot. But like everyone said, the one that counts is the PSAT for junior year. I just went through this in Jan/Feb trying to get my dd a spot for the PSAT10. Luckily I found a school that was fine with her being there. My bigger problem is that most of the schools I called weren't even administering the PSAT10. They have to pay for each test. They only give to a few students who they think have a shot at NM in the junior year. So a lot of our local (very urban) schools weren't even giving it. Some of the better charter schools just didn't even call me back. I had heard that private schools might be better, but they either weren't giving it, or had given it already in the fall of 10th grade year. 

I don't think my next dd has a shot at NM just from where she will be in math and reading/writing within the next year. But I would still be fine with paying for her to take the 10 just for the practice and the sake of the KAHN link up for practice before she takes the actual SAT.  But if for some reason the homeschool friendly counselor at the high school that let us in changes her policy, then I am not going to worry about it with her, since I don't think NM is something we will be aiming for. 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

35 minutes ago, mirabillis said:

i find that ledger list to be pretty thorough. if they're offering the class, they are giving the exam. that's how we have found ap exam locations nearby

When we moved one year it was a real challenge to find a European History test site.  The ledger didn't reflect actual course offerings locally.  

I think either some teachers renewed syllabuses even though their school wasn't doing the course or the ledger just wasn't up to date.

I ended up on the phone with the state DOE AP coordinator at one point.  She ended up connecting me with a private school giving the exam.