Phonics vs Whole Language vs ...

[Pintosrock]

I hope I don't start a firestorm...

Q: Is one method truly "better?" And do you feel so strongly about your convictions that you would go up to another Mom and tell her she's doing it wrong? Is a mix of the methods satisfactory, or less than ideal? Am I really screwing up my kid?!

My story, leading up to my question: 

We were at the library booksale. Dd4 was playing with a boy (age5) and being louder-than-desirable for the library. So, I pulled out a book and cried out, "Look, dd! A Magic Schoolbus book!" She fed off my enthusiasm, took the book, and asked the boy if he wanted to hear her read it. He, in clear shock and awe, asked her if she could read. "Of course I can!" was her indignant reply. She began to "read" it to him. I'll admit it here - she's not actually reading. She was using her knowledge of previous encounters with Ms Frizzle and the pictures to tell a story. 

After a minute, it became obvious to the boy that she wasn't actually reading and he called her out on it. She was insistent that she was reading and the argument was escalating and others are now watching us. Dd turns to me to resolve it, asking "Was I reading?" I pause, knowing I now have an audience beyond two kids and also not wanting to dampen dd's enjoyment of books. So I very seriously ask her, "Were you swimming?" She looks at me as if I'm the most ridiculous mom ever. "No, I was reading!" "Of course, you were reading," I agree and go back to looking for books. Dd continues reading to the bewildered boy, and they are reasonably quiet (All I really wanted at that moment!)

Then, the boy's Mom (I see them at storytime, but don't really know these people) comes up and she tells me that I really shouldn't let dd think she's reading, it will only lead to word guessing. She teaches her son straight phonics and he's not allowed to read books (a la whole language methodology) until he has a firm grasp of phonics.

At the moment, I just wanted everyone to leave me alone so I could look for books! But in reflection, I'm thinking, really?! That sounds like a sure way to kill all the enjoyment of reading! 

Our learning-to-read plan: We finished AARpre and the Ready, Set, Go for the Code books. I have AAR1, but three lessons in and it's clear that she doesn't get blending and it's BORING to dd. So we're taking the summer off to just play with books. Our library has lots of alphabet/sounds games that we rotate through and she listens to me read. The plan is to pick back up with AAR1 (getting our phonics in) while also listening to me read, and letting dd do whatever she wants with books (pretending to read or whatever)

Q: Am I really teaching dd bad habits? Has 100% phonics won the Reading War?

[HomeAgain]

I believe very firmly in phonics.  I also think that mother was a lot more intense than I am.  I let my kids explore books however they liked as they were learning how to read.  Enjoying a book is a valuable thing, and I wouldn't take that from my kid.  But what do I know? I'm also the same mom who let her kids play with a toy kitchen and pretend food to "cook" until they were old enough to do real cooking.  I let them scribble "writing" until they were able to make real letters.  So, I'm just going to say that my kids are completely doomed, being allowed to pretend and foster a love of things they didn't have the ability for.  Shame on me! ?

[Syllieann]

I also believe firmly in phonics, though I acknowledge that there are a very small minority of children who might be better off with “balanced” literacy or whole language for some reason.  I don’t ban books, but I do try to limit occasions in which a child who isn’t learning to read might be tempted to guess.  This might mean I read the words that the child doesn’t yet have the skill for.  It might mean I check out books that are within the child’s grasp without me.  I would not have told my daughter in that situation that she was reading or let her believe she was.  I agree with that mom that it is a mistake.  I understand, though, why you didn’t want to dampen her enthusiasm. Maybe, “some people define reading as decoding the words on the page” and others like to think of it as telling a story while showing pictures.  I like to think of it as decoding the words that are written on the page” would have been better.  I think the reason the other mom came back so harshly at you is because she felt you basically called her kid a liar when she felt that he was absolutely telling the truth.

[Xahm]

I probably would have told my child "you were telling a really good story, but it wasn't reading the words on the page," and then distracted her by asking about Ms Frizzle. If I were in the position of the other mom, I would not have called you out! I would have whispered to my kid that he was right, she wasn't reading, but she was playing pretend and it's not nice to try to stop someone else's game of pretend. If I was chatting with you, I might mention how hard many have found it to stop the guessing habit once it has started and how frustrating it is to find a way that teaches reading well while still being fun (then proselytized for ProgressivePhonics.com because I think it does a great job being the middle way).

[sweet2ndchance]

I also think phonics is absolutely the way to teach reading but I would never call someone else out for teaching differently than me. I like the examples that Xahm gave of how she would have handled it differently. I probably would have responded similarly to the way she did.

I don't think letting a child enjoy books before they can read leads to word guessing. Forcing a child to read a word which they have not been taught the phonics rules to be able to sound it out can lead to word guessing. Teaching a strict whole language approach can lead to word guessing. But I think the other mom, while well meaning, could be going a bit overboard just based on her comments to you and her son's reaction to your daughter's claims to being able to read. If they shouldn't be allowed to handle and read books before they can read them, should I also put blinders on them when we go out of the house so they don't try to "read" store signs or other environmental print? If I catch my kids guessing, I stop them and explain the rule that applies to the word they are guessing at even if we haven't yet covered it in their reading lessons. No harm, no foul.

My kids range in age from 20 years old down to almost 5.5 year old. I was the one that taught all but one of them to read (second youngest son learned in public school, long story). My currently homeschooled 5.5yo is an emergent reader but he's coming right along.They all learned to read, some as late as 9yo and the youngest any of them learned to read was age 3. None of them guessed at words excessively as a result of being allowed to explore books on their own before they could read.

[barnwife]

I have to leave for a meeting in a few minutes...but wanted to post a short reply.

I tell my kids that there are three ways to read books: read the words, read the pictures, or do some combo of both! As we grow up, we hopefully gain the ability to read all three ways and decide which is best for any given situation. (Even I might "read" a Nat. Geo. article by reading the pictures if I only have a couple minutes.)

 

[AimeeM]

I do not think that one way is necessarily better for all children. As in, I do not think ALL children should be taught pure phonics and I do not believe ALL children should be taught to read using a whole word approach. I believe (very firmly) that every child is different -- some kids will learn better with a pure phonics approach, and others will learn best with a whole word approach (and some with a combo of the two.

I taught my dyslexic DD (now 16) to read using a whole word approach -- and I'm very glad I did. While she struggled greatly with spelling because of her dyslexia, she can read (and well). Phonics were approached through spelling with programs like Apples and Pears. This was before she was homeschooled (that I taught her to read) and before I read these forums.

Then, when I pulled her to homeschool (end of fourth grade and she was already reading), I started reading about how pure phonics is the "only way to go" -- ESPECIALLY with dyslexic children. And I bought into it -- hook, line, and sinker. So when my middle son reached school age, I started in with a pure phonics approach (OG, multisensory, etc.), convinced it was the only way to go. After years of struggling, I now have a 9 year old (ASD and dyslexic) who can NOT read. Oh, he can sound out most words (thanks phonics!), but there is zero fluidity. By the time he is done dissecting and sounding out each word in a sentence, he's completely forgotten the other words in the sentence (or forgotten their sequence), so he has to go back over and re-read every word. It is painful to watch. That boy also dreads reading lessons as a result -- and dreads anything related to reading. So, as a last-ditch effort, I put him on ASD Reading, wondering if the visual approach would appeal to him. It is almost entirely whole word-based. Within a week he was reading a half dozen words with fluidity. And he enjoys it. I'm still hitting phonics with spelling (we do love Apples and Pears!), but I plan to take a more whole word approach with him going forward. 

Similar story with my 6 year old ASD boy-o. No signs of dyslexia, but struggles (severely) with receptive language -- and rigidity. I attempted "pure phonics" with him for a couple weeks, and I promptly ditched it. Introducing a rule to this boy, then a few lessons later introduce exceptions to that rule, and then eventually words that do not follow the rule OR the learned exception(s) was already proving disastrous. He's known his letter sounds since 18 months old, but the rules involved in actual phonics, and the receptive language skills needed to receive that instruction, were already turning reading into a burden for him, and I don't want that (again). And, really, at this time in our lives, I'm looking to create readers and I really don't care how they get there. He is doing great with ASD Reading and easily remembers how to spell and read words that I spell out for him. We'll hit phonics with Apples and Pears later, like I did with his sister and brother. But, this time around, I'm not going to stress phonics as the "only way to go." 

I am sure there are many children who do well with pure phonics. I am sure there are children with the same dx's as my own children who do well with pure phonics. I am also sure that I did at least one of my children a huge disservice by being so invested in one approach being the "right way" that I was unwilling (until very late in the game) to deviate from it. 

So, no, I wouldn't have said anything to you, had I been a bystander. And, if someone had said something to me (were my child in situation similar to your DD's), I would have told her exactly where she could shove it. But, then, it's a touchy subject for me ? 

[Ellie]

Absolutely one is better: phonics. "Whole language" is nothing but sight reading repackaged.

"Why Johnny Still Can't Read" is an excellent book for explaining why most children need phonics. (And by "phonics" I mean a systematic, organized method. "Why Johnny..." explains what phonics is and is not, and what sight reading is and is not.).

[Tanaqui]

Wow, what a rude lady! Who asked her?

Phonics IS better... but it doesn't harm children to hold up a book and pretend to be reading, or even to recite the text. (In fact, if your kid enjoys that activity I could suggest some - or even many! - wordless picture books to take out from the library so she can do this and never be called out as "wrong" by anybody.)

[El...]

What that lady was describing goes farther than most phonics-adherents would go. She won't let him have a book he can't decode? I've read about that approach.  So no free access to picture books at her house, I guess. 

My DS claimed to be reading by narrating the story sometimes. He'd ask me to confirm that he was reading and I'd reply, "Almost!"

Now that he actually is reading some of the words, using phonics, he doesn't ask anymore. He knows what he can't do yet. 

I think it was pretty rude of her to address you like that, but maybe she's a new phonics convert. 

[Ellie]

19 hours ago, Pintosrock said:

Then, the boy's Mom (I see them at storytime, but don't really know these people) comes up and she tells me that I really shouldn't let dd think she's reading, it will only lead to word guessing. She teaches her son straight phonics and he's not allowed to read books (a la whole language methodology) until he has a firm grasp of phonics.

 

Yes, phonics is better--real phonics, not sight reading with some phonics thrown in for good measure, which is what whole language does--but this woman is totally off. Of course you let your children pick up books and "read" them. It might lead to "word guessing," but that won't be the same kind of guessing that is encouraged in sight-reading methods.

[Mommyof1]

We do phonics here. I strongly believe it is the best way. Others disagree. 

I have always let my DD5 look at books on her own. Books are everywhere in our house. She loves us reading to her. We try to instill a love of reading and books with her. Her interest in reading on her own goes up and down. She picks things up well but would rather go play. Which is fine. We are doing a turtles pace in phonics.

I have told others my views. Some share them, some don't. Their choice. I made mine. Would I be confrontational about it? Nope. Not my circus, not my monkey.

 

[Kiara.I]

On 5/23/2018 at 12:50 PM, Pintosrock said:

I hope I don't start a firestorm...

Q: Is one method truly "better?" And do you feel so strongly about your convictions that you would go up to another Mom and tell her she's doing it wrong? Is a mix of the methods satisfactory, or less than ideal? Am I really screwing up my kid?!

Q: Am I really teaching dd bad habits? Has 100% phonics won the Reading War?

 

I think phonics is better, for most kids.  Letting your daughter look through books and narrate whatever she likes to herself is not "whole word"--it's just a normal pattern of enjoying books.  So you're not "mixing methods", you're letting your child enjoy books.  That's a good thing. ? You're teaching her phonics.  She's enjoying books however she likes.  It'll all be fine.  (Though I might have clarified about the reading thing at the library in front of the other little kid--he "heard" you telling him he didn't know what he was talking about, and he DID, he knew he did...like you said, he was bewildered.)

I can't imagine anyone banning their child from picking up a book to look at it on the principle that they can't read it phonetically yet.  That's a bit like saying they're never allowed to kick a ball around with friends until they're ready for the high-competition soccer leagues, they can only work one-on-one with a coach.  Guess what?  I'll show you a child that will never love soccer...

So no.  Letting your child look at books and tell a story out loud is not "teaching bad habits."  It's teaching good habits.  After all, there will be times in her life when she might need to modify the text on the page for the audience she's reading aloud for!

[Farrar]

Phonics is necessary to learning how to read. Period. End stop. It is absolutely core to reading. There's never been any serious scientific debate about this. Kids must be taught with phonics to learn to read. Some will pick it up on their own, but because they picked up phonics on their own - not because they magically learned without it.

Whole language is NOT sight words. Whole language is a concept that came first. Sight words is the repackaged whole language when they couldn't figure out how to implement something so loosey goosey in a public school classroom and they needed to have a method for it. Because whole language is entirely hippie-like. It's not a method for teaching reading mechanics. It's a general philosophy that kids should be able to play around with words and books and so forth. It's all about a language rich environment. And letting them play pretend with reading and writing, like you let your dd do. But then people took it this extra step to force kids to try invented spelling and to make them write all the time and to memorize words on purpose (sight words) - which the original whole language people basically said was a thing that happens naturally, which, is actually true. We do memorize lots of words. It's why we can read those mixed up spelling words or those words that are missing letters in those silly internet tests - because we don't usually sound out every single word. But trying to teach anyone to memorize words one by one is a losing way to learn reading and why kids tap out by 3rd or 4th grade if they don't learn phonics. And trying to implement getting kids to like books and reading is not a way to teach the actual mechanics of reading. And it never should have become one.

Discouraging children from interacting with books like that woman did kills their love of reading, I think. People who think that phonics means you have to take books away from children or punish them for pretend play are giving phonics a bad name. I think that's the sort of people who - on the phonics side, because there were plenty of nuts on the whole language side too - drove people away from phonics and egged on the reading wars in the first place.

When PBS stopped airing Reading Rainbow (bear with me here), they went to a model where all their literacy shows for young children were based on reading mechanics. There are a ton of PBS Kids shows that are all about phonics, vocabulary, etc. That's great. Kids need that. But also, Reading Rainbow gave kids a *reason* to read. Phonics simply doesn't do that. It's not literature or stories or any of the fun elements of reading. I mean, you can make it a game. You absolutely have to teach phonics. But also, it's okay to engage with kids about the reason to read - for some kids, that means thinking that books are something they can "read" and that stories are something they are knowledgeable enough to tell.

Basically, I don't buy that these things are at odds. One of them is a way to teach kids how to read - phonics. There is no contest. It's the ONLY way to do that. All the ways to teach kids how to read are different ways to teach phonics. The other - whole language - is a general philosophy about how we should be gentle and encourage kids to play with words and love books. It's good too, but in a more open ended way.

[Rosie_0801]

I think teaching via the syllabary is the best way, and I would have told my daughter in that situation that I wouldn't call what she was doing reading. "Instead, my darling I would call it wallowing happily in a book and enjoying it, which is a very good and healthy thing to do." And if the other mother took that as snark against her, she'd be right. ?

Anyway. Your dd is 4. Whatever you do while the two of you are happily pottering along is fine.

[ElizabethB]

I've remediated hundreds of children who have problems from sight words and other whole language practices, so I've seen the poor results from whole language.  We are retired military and I've tested thousands of children from dozens of schools over the 24 years that I've been a volunteer literacy tutor.

In schools that teach 100% whole language (common when I first started tutoring), about 40% to 50% of the children read below grade level.

In school that teach "balanced literacy," 20 - 40% of the children read below grade level, depending on how much phonics is taught and how much sight words are emphasized.  The schools with the 40% average were mostly schools that not only taught sight words but did also did speed drills with them.  Also, the more they encourage guessing and sight words and use leveled readers, the worse the outcome.

I've seen a handful of schools that taught with good phonics and no sight words, and less than 5% of the children from those schools were reading below grade level, and most were at least a grade level above but usually 2 or more grades above average.

There is a ton of research supporting the superiority of phonics:

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On Phonics/proven.html

But recent brain research with new MEG machines that show what the brain is doing at the nanosecond level imply that the brains of good readers are using phonics, with every letter or letter team being processed on the side and area of the brain that processes sounds and oral language, just very fast and in parallel, so people think they are reading them as wholes.

My sight word page has more and explains how and why to teach all but 5 of the most commonly taught 220 Dolch sight words and Fry 100 instant words with phonics:

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On Phonics/proven.html

Moreover, the remedial students I've worked with all have low self esteem and guessing problems from the sight words, it takes a lot longer to remediate the longer they have been reading with sight word habits, it takes more time and a lot of nonsense words to undo the guessing habits, the younger I remediate, the faster they remediate and the less nonsense words it takes.

[kiwik]

I think most kids will learn however you teach them.  For the rest you should use whatever method is best for the individual child.