s/o Useless Degrees

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

A poster in another area of WTM was asking about a psychology or philosophy degree and one response was "a BA in psychology and two bucks will get you a cup of coffee" I had always heard that in reference to my first degree, English Lit. I consider a BA in English Lit a useless degree in that I could not use my degree to obtain an entry-level position into a profession related to said degree. So, based on that criteria, what other usless degrees are out there?

[anissarobert]

I posted in the same thread that my philosophy degree is not all that "useful." Though, it is interesting, and does help with homeschooling.

[LaxMom]

Well, I suspect there are a number of fields in which anything less than a PhD is simply for your own amusement: economics, sociology, anthropology, biology, chemistry, physics, social work.... in fact, anything that isn't specifically job-related (i.e. a BSN) doesn't appear that useful, does it?

 

My husband has three "useless" (using the stated criterion and that he works in another field) degrees - an AA in criminal justice, a BS in Soc/Corrections (he doesn't work in law enforcement) and a MS in public safety management, which he will eventually use. His actual "useful" education was a year of paramedic school.

 

Thank goodness firefighters are paid so highly that we can keep going to school for entertainment! :rolleyes:

[Jane in NC]

With my master's degree in pure mathematics, I often describe myself as useless. I can teach integration theory and all about differential equations, but this does not help most people with daily life.

 

My husband also has a master's degree in mathematics. While I am useless, he is useful. He is a system's engineer at a utility, a problem solver.

 

The point here is that it is not the degree that is useful or useless, it is what one does or chooses to do with one's degree.

 

Learning to think may be useless in terms of a paycheck, but it is useful in being a productive citizen in other fashions. Or at least I kid myself into believing.

 

Jane

[Pink Fairy]

I think a lot of degrees that are considered useless are actually useful if you want to teach. A degree in social science won't do much for you outside of education. My own dh has a masters degree in...Philosophy! :001_smile: Great for him--a teacher--but probably wouldn't be helpful in another field.

[Tabrett]

I think a degree must be require for the job for it to be useful. If the degree is not required it is useless. For example: You have to be a certified teacher(or working on it) to teach at public school. You have to have a degree to be a doctor or RN. You have to pass the accounting exam to be a CPA.

If you can work your way up into a position, you don't need a degree. MOST companies would rather hire someone without a degree and train them so they don't have to pay the $$$ for hiring a person with a degree.

 

I have a degree in Music Ed. I can find a job if need be. Friends who majored in music history or music performance~well, what do they do? They teach school while working to get a teacher certification.

[chiguirre]

I think it depends a lot on the university you attend. For example, Ivies in general only offer liberal arts degrees (the major exceptions being Penn and Cornell). That doesn't really inhibit students from getting good jobs at graduation, although a large percentage will go on to grad school either right away or after a couple of years of work experience. It's very common for an Econ major to get a job in finance, for example. In fact, it's probably one of the safest routes to get a banking job.

[Tabrett]

In fact, it's probably one of the safest routes to get a banking job.

I don't think banking jobs are in vogue at the moment.:lol::lol:

[Heather in Neverland]

"a BA in psychology and two bucks will get you a cup of coffee"

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

A good friend of mine in college got a BA in psychology and we used to tease her and say that 6 months after graduation she will be saying "I know you say you want a Big Mac but how do you feel about it?" :D

 

I have a BA in English and Spanish, a teaching certificate, an MA in Education (all of which I have been using for the last 14 years). NOW? I recently started working on a second master's degree in THEOLOGY and I am a woman...how useful do you think that will end up being? I'm doing it anyways!

Edited November 14, 2008 by Heather in NC

[homeschoolmom]

I believe that had I continued pursuing a degree in Medieval Studies that would have been useless. I don't have contacts in the museum industry and I'm not a city person (so even if I had contacts I don't see that I would have moved closer to NYC). I'm also not great at pontificating on things countless others have written about better than I could possibly hope to so I don't see that being a prof would worked for me due to the publish or perish rule.

 

So....I jumped ship and my MINOR was in Medieval Studies. My major was Operational Mgmt - Business Administration. MS in Project Mgmt. Chosen purely to further my career which has worked out well.

[Jami]

Well I'm not convinced that a degree and a job/career have to be obviously connected. My husband has his B.A. in philosophy. But while he was getting that degree, he used his previous art training and computer skills to learn graphic design. He pretty much ran our campus New Media Center for the last 2 years of his college career. His first job ended up being for a company interested in visual communication or thinking. Amazingly, his work in design required a great deal of philosophy. He needed to be able to break down pictures to the core of what needed to be communicated, understand how people process information, and generally understand language. Icon design has also been a staple of his income over the years. What is an icon but a reduction of language or an idea into a symbol, fairly philosophic?

 

That and he's an interesting person to talk to. ;) Let's just say I can't see myself married to an accountant (no offense to the many charming, exciting accountants out there, I'm working from a stereotype).

 

My own degree was history and a minor in lit. Not particularly applicable in these early years of homeschooling, BUT I learned great research skills which have come in handy in studying education, parenting, household care, etc.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

MOST companies would rather hire someone without a degree and train them so they don't have to pay the $$$ for hiring a person with a degree.

 

That has not been my experience at all. When I was working, we would not even look at a resume that didn't have a university degree on it. I was a software engineer, and we wouldn't even look at self-learners because most of them didn't have the proper training. Sure they could hack a computer (in the general sense of the word, not the criminal one) but they could not work within a large team. Developing software in your basement is not the same at all as joining a group of 100 programmers all working on the same software.

[homeschoolmom]

That has not been my experience at all. When I was working, we would not even look at a resume that didn't have a university degree on it. I was a software engineer, and we wouldn't even look at self-learners because most of them didn't have the proper training. Sure they could hack a computer (in the general sense of the word, not the criminal one) but they could not work within a large team. Developing software in your basement is not the same at all as joining a group of 100 programmers all working on the same software.

 

That's been my experience as well.

 

That said a degree does not equate to even the vaguest intelligence. I'd rather interview someone with no degree and a can-do attitude and 'signs of life' then someone with degrees that has no idea how to apply knowledge. I see a lot of folks in my company and my previous employ with degrees that make me wonder about the value of college as if they graduated.....well, you know...

[Tracy in Ky]

I have one of those Psyc Bachelor's degrees--pretty useless in and of itself.

 

I also have a 96 hour Master of Divinity degree in Pastoral Care and Counseling, and while I've never actually tried to get a job since graduating, I think it would prove to be pretty useless too. It isn't that the knowledge that I gained is useless, but as far as job skills--I'm certainly not marketable.

 

Now my minor in writing has come in pretty handy. :D

[Gwen in VA]

I think the concept of a useless degree is highly dependent on what you want to do with it!

 

I started out life as a French lit major, but my parents wanted me to major in something useful -- so I now have two degrees in engineering. I had dd1 right after I got my SM, so I never actually worked in engineering.

 

Well, they are useless pieces of paper for two reasons --

1) Engineering is one of those "use it or lose it" fields -- since I haven't worked in the field for 20 years, my degrees are meaningless pieces of paper as far as actually getting a job goes.

2) I don't enjoy math or science!!!!! So I want to tutor English and/or history, but of course who wants a woman with an engineering degree to tutor your child in history?

 

So for me, majoring in English might have been more practical -- I could at least tutor English with a degree in the field!

[Stacy in NJ]

Soft degrees in pseudo sciences like psychology and sociology don't have much value. Degress in other BA humanities subject aren't all that valuable unless teaching is a goal.

 

This, coming from a girl who has many, many credits and no degree at all. I have lots of edumacation.:D

[Jenny in Atl]

A poster in another area of WTM was asking about a psychology or philosophy degree and one response was "a BA in psychology and two bucks will get you a cup of coffee" I had always heard that in reference to my first degree, English Lit. I consider a BA in English Lit a useless degree in that I could not use my degree to obtain an entry-level position into a profession related to said degree. So, based on that criteria, what other usless degrees are out there?

 

Only thing worse than a BA in Psych is a BS. Yup that's me. Can you say retail?

[Plucky]

I don't think there is a useless degree. As long as someone is passionate about it and loves learning it is never a waste. I don't think everyone has to go to college, but learning is never useless.

[Harriet Vane]

The point here is that it is not the degree that is useful or useless, it is what one does or chooses to do with one's degree.

 

 

Jane

 

Well said. I have a "useless" degree--I graduated with a double major in English and Rhetoric. However, my useless degree got me a position in publishing editing and proofreading, which I enjoyed a great deal, so I do not consider the degree useless at all.

[Debbie in OR]

I don't think there is a useless degree. As long as someone is passionate about it and loves learning it is never a waste. I don't think everyone has to go to college, but learning is never useless.

 

Totally agree, TrueBlue. I have one of those BS in Psychology and an MA in Counseling. Had great jobs after graduation from both and until I got married and started having kids. Now, I find that, although I'm not actually being paid for any of this stuff, it has completely affected how I approach teaching my dc. Does it have to come with a degree? Not at all. Think Nathaniel Bowditch, among many others. Was my learning valuable even if I never "use" the degree again? Absolutely.

[fractalgal]

A poster in another area of WTM was asking about a psychology or philosophy degree and one response was "a BA in psychology and two bucks will get you a cup of coffee" I had always heard that in reference to my first degree, English Lit. I consider a BA in English Lit a useless degree in that I could not use my degree to obtain an entry-level position into a profession related to said degree. So, based on that criteria, what other usless degrees are out there?

 

I think a BA in English Lit would be useful when homeschooling. :)

[Sharon H in IL]

I cast my ballot for a bachelor of Political Science.

 

Hey there, are you interested in buying a short discourse on the various types of international law systems? No? Perhaps you'd like to discuss Aquinas' theory of natural law? No? The role of the state in Hobbes? Hey, come back here! I'm not done yet!

 

Aw shucks. ;)

[Garga]

Unless the degree teaches you a very specific skill for a specific job (like law for a lawyer, medicine for a doctor) I think most degrees are a waste of time.

 

I didn't go to college out of high school, instead went to work. Then when I was 30 I started taking college classes, and almost everything they taught me, I had already learned on the job.

 

It just seems that the time spent getting (and paying for) a degree could be spend working the actual job. Same outcome in my opinion, but in one scenario, you pay for the knowledge, and in the other scenario, they pay YOU to learn the knowledge.

 

Of course, come time to get a new job, they still look for that useless degree on the resume!

[Mama Lynx]

I think a BA in English Lit would be useful when homeschooling. :)

 

And yet, mine isn't. It's only useful when we do Shakespeare, or poetry. Those seem to be the only things that stuck with me. :001_huh:

[3lilreds in NC]

My degree in linguistics is pretty useless for getting a job, except that it was on my resume, like others have said. I have had a wonderful time watching my children acquire language and it has given me a somewhat unique perspective on the language spoken around me. I loved my classes and found my concentration fascinating. If I ever get to be a speech pathologist, I think it will be a good basis. But you know, when I've tried to explain to my children how plurals are formed linguistically in English... their eyes glaze over. And when I've tried to explain the difference between voiced and voiceless consonants, I get the same result. Sigh.

[I talk to the trees]

I

 

I have a degree in Music Ed. I can find a job if need be. Friends who majored in music history or music performance~well, what do they do? They teach school while working to get a teacher certification.

 

 

Ummm, I don't know what music schools you went to, but most of the folks I know that majored in performance have jobs as (drum roll)..... performers. Your assumption that a musician must need a teaching certificate in order to make a living is flawed, as is your assumption that that degree in music education will assure you a job.

 

And if I may weigh in on the topic of worthless degrees: The reason degrees are perceived as worthless is the abundant number of college graduates out there. It's rather like money in that respect. The more money that is out there, the less it's actually worth. (Just my opinion.)

 

 

-Robin

[Homeschooling6]

If you can work your way up into a position, you don't need a degree. MOST companies would rather hire someone without a degree and train them so they don't have to pay the $$$ for hiring a person with a degree.

 

.

 

I wouldn't say most companies. My dh works for a large corporation. They would prefer to hire a person with a degree.

[cathmom]

No one has mentioned a master's in German literature, which is what I have. But it is not useless, because I have used it to teach. However, it sounds pretty useless. Would anyone like to discuss Kafka?:D

[Amy in Orlando]

For dh, having a degree has made the difference in him moving from one level to anotherl. Doesn't matter that his degree was criminal justice and he worked in restaurants. They wanted that piece of paper. Now that we're self-employed, it doesn't matter. :0

 

I have a journalism degree. I've never worked in journalism, but the skills I learned earned me a few cool jobs. Now that I don't "work" for a living, I'm finding my skills to be very valuable to my SAT-taking sons.

 

Was it worth the student loans we've almost finally paid off? I'm not sure. But, I consider us successful. We'll be counseling our boys to avoid the debt we incurred, btw.

[asta]

The difficulty here is that we are expecting the University system to be teaching things that will lead to jobs. That has not historically been, nor should it be the intent of a University education. A University education is supposed to be designed to teach a person how to think.

 

What the "philosopher" then does with this skill is varied: they may go on to a higher degree program, they may choose to teach, they may just go home and be pleased with their knowledge base.

 

If a person wishes to be instructed in the ins and outs of how to do a job, they should be attending a technical school.

 

Why this system of education is alive and well throughout the world, but has fallen into some sort of "University is better and tech school is for losers" is beyond me. And, in my opinion, has definitely hurt the economy of the United States, as our "trained workforce" has shrunk.

 

I joke that I have one of those "useless" degrees (BS in Social and Behavioral Economics), but actually, it isn't. I have stayed steadily employed, be it paid or unpaid (by choice) since graduation. Everyone loves someone who understands human behavior and knows how to research.

 

 

asta

[Tracy in Ky]

I cast my ballot for a bachelor of Political Science.

 

Hey there, are you interested in buying a short discourse on the various types of international law systems? No? Perhaps you'd like to discuss Aquinas' theory of natural law? No? The role of the state in Hobbes? Hey, come back here! I'm not done yet!

 

Aw shucks. ;)

 

:lol:

[Bev in B'ville]

Since it was my quote that started this thread I thought I would weigh in here.

 

There's a difference between education for education's sake and education with the expectation that it will lead to a job.

 

I have a very dear friend who majored in and received a bachelor's degree in theology. He considered this a terminal degree (meaning he never meant to go to seminary afterwards). Well, he got married and to support his wife and children got a job on an assembly line. All's well and good (though they struggled month to month) until he got layed off early last year. Now, he has a wife, four kids (two of whom are in college) and a house payment. Kids went to public school, wife got a full-time job in the library (so they could at least have medical insurance) and he's still on unemployment because he can't find a job with his skill set and degree.

 

I think learning for learning's sake is admirable. I try to do it, still. I always loved being a student. It was great. However, the university setting should be considered a tool that one uses to prepare them for the "real world." I think all of us want our dc to grow up and have a job where they contribute to society and are not a burden on it. Whether it's apprenticing, a technical college, or a university they choose as their "tool" for making that happen. Having a field of study as a hobby is always an option; one does not have to major in it; one could minor in that subject or even choose elective classes in that subject to fulfill degree requirements and continue studying it well after they leave school.

 

The point is that deductive reasoning should be used BEFORE making those choices. Start with: Where do I want to work or what kind of work do I want to be doing when I finish college (some may even start with what kind of money they want to earn). From there it's fairly easy to work backward to see what degree/classes will need to be taken, and, if a degree is necessary, what that degree should be in. Knowing what a person wants to do will help them in determining whether they can stop at a bachelor's degree or will need to go on to graduate school. Of course, this mean's thinking ahead and planning; not everyone's forte.

 

My ds wants to be an architect. He will get a terminal degree in architecture (granted it's a bit longer than the standard 4 year degree, but still terminal). Great, he's set. My dd, only the other hand, wants to dual major in physics and biology. In the field she eventually wants to work in she knows she has to go to graduate school; she's already planning on it. Neither of her chosen majors is a terminal degree; it must lead to something else - esp. given where she wants to work when she's done. Planning is the key, people.

[Marie in Oh]

Well said. I have a "useless" degree--I graduated with a double major in English and Rhetoric. However, my useless degree got me a position in publishing editing and proofreading, which I enjoyed a great deal, so I do not consider the degree useless at all.

 

I have a BA in English Lit and an MA in Rhetoric and Comp. I am qualified to work in editing and publishing, tech writing, freelance writing and I can teach to boot. Not useless at all.

[Jane in NC]

I cast my ballot for a bachelor of Political Science.

 

Hey there, are you interested in buying a short discourse on the various types of international law systems? No? Perhaps you'd like to discuss Aquinas' theory of natural law? No? The role of the state in Hobbes? Hey, come back here! I'm not done yet!

 

Aw shucks. ;)

 

Come on down for a cup of tea and a chat, Sharon! I find political philosophy to be quite interesting. Doesn't everyone assign The Republic and Leviathan to their fifteen year old?

 

By the way, there is a discussion of the Federalist Papers over on the Draconian Social Group that might interest you.

 

Jane

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

What a wonderful conversation. Let me say that I do not consider my English Lit degree to be personally useless. I loved getting it, love that I can do a little skit about Mary Queen of Scotts when it comes up in homeschooling, love that I can pontificate on all sorts of novels, plots and poetry.

However, when my dh was laid off and I wanted to enter the workforce, I was qualified for...well, office manager, maybe retail (although with no experience at my age?). I would have to return to school to teach public school (18 months), but in 3 semesters I got an ASN and began working as an RN right away, making more than a teacher makes anyway. Now I'm working on my Masters in Nursing, which will lead to a teaching job at a university.

I totally agree that no education is useless on a personal level.

[readwithem]

No one has mentioned a master's in German literature, which is what I have. But it is not useless, because I have used it to teach. However, it sounds pretty useless. Would anyone like to discuss Kafka?:D

 

:scared:

[cathmom]

:scared:

 

Is that a no? :001_smile:

[readwithem]

I don't think there is a useless degree. As long as someone is passionate about it and loves learning it is never a waste. I don't think everyone has to go to college, but learning is never useless.

 

:iagree:

[Renee in NC]

That has not been my experience at all. When I was working, we would not even look at a resume that didn't have a university degree on it. I was a software engineer, and we wouldn't even look at self-learners because most of them didn't have the proper training. Sure they could hack a computer (in the general sense of the word, not the criminal one) but they could not work within a large team. Developing software in your basement is not the same at all as joining a group of 100 programmers all working on the same software.

 

I know someone who can't advance beyond where he is at his company because he doesn't have a degree. He needs a degree in *something* - they don't care what it is!

 

Not having a degree will often limit how far you can go and what you get paid. My brother was paid much less at his current job because he didn't have a degree.

 

I don't think that a degree is ever "useless" - often even in jobs that don't require a degree, it gives you a "leg up" over others with similar experience, but no degree.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[LisaKinVA]

Coming to the defense of the Poli Sci Degree. I have one -- but my plans were to work in DC in policy work, when I paired my Poli Sci Degree with my Communications Degree (since I had a Bachelor's in both), I became very marketable in the DC area. Throw in a huge depth of experience in foreign policy, defense, energy and econ through college debate, and I was writing policy papers for organizations before I completed my degree.

 

Now, beyond that -- to go further with either of those, I would need my Masters and/or Doctorate or Law Degree to go a LOT further -- but I still had my share of 6-figure jobs available to me (and still do, if I wanted to put the kids in school and commute every day).

[Sharon H in IL]

Come on down for a cup of tea and a chat, Sharon! I find political philosophy to be quite interesting. Doesn't everyone assign The Republic and Leviathan to their fifteen year old?

 

By the way, there is a discussion of the Federalist Papers over on the Draconian Social Group that might interest you.

 

Jane

 

Thanks, Jane. It's nice to meet a kindred soul, which I define in these circumstances as someone who doesn't roll their eyes if you mention a philosopher. :D

 

I did notice the Federalist Papers chat; I was reading a bit and enjoying it. I'm not draconian though. I don't want to join under false pretenses. :lol:

[Mekanamom]

LOL, Here's another with a BA in Psych & Sociology (double major) with a minor in Anthropology. It's all neatly bundled together as one BA in "The Social Sciences".

 

Perhaps it didn't neatly prepare me to fit into a specific job, (since I didn't want to go into social work or become an HR person... or further my education to become a therapist) but I don't see it as a waste. All those statistics courses and creating research papers has at least helped me to understand other people's research papers. :D That's actually a big help!

 

Just knowing that the stages my kids go through are normal has also been helpful. LOL.

 

The most concrete help my studies have given me is in horse training, though. I read through/viewed the horse training material, and suddenly all those Behavioral Psych and Comparative Psych classes came flooding back! Good old Skinner and his box.

[dirty ethel rackham]

The difficulty here is that we are expecting the University system to be teaching things that will lead to jobs. That has not historically been, nor should it be the intent of a University education. A University education is supposed to be designed to teach a person how to think.

 

What the "philosopher" then does with this skill is varied: they may go on to a higher degree program, they may choose to teach, they may just go home and be pleased with their knowledge base.

 

If a person wishes to be instructed in the ins and outs of how to do a job, they should be attending a technical school.

 

Why this system of education is alive and well throughout the world, but has fallen into some sort of "University is better and tech school is for losers" is beyond me. And, in my opinion, has definitely hurt the economy of the United States, as our "trained workforce" has shrunk.

 

I joke that I have one of those "useless" degrees (BS in Social and Behavioral Economics), but actually, it isn't. I have stayed steadily employed, be it paid or unpaid (by choice) since graduation. Everyone loves someone who understands human behavior and knows how to research.

 

 

asta

 

I agree with the idea that the university teaches how to think. Althought I do not use my BS in Mathematics on a regular basis, nor did it prepare me technically for my first career (computer analyst), it opened doors that would have been closed without a degree. A majority of companies get so many applicants that they toss all the resumes without a degree listed. My subsequent career was mostly self-study to prepare for, but learning how to study, how to research, how to think critically and think beyond the material really helped me be successful in this career. I know I would not have been able to do that without my college experience.

 

While I do not use the college course material in Math to teach my kids (hey, they are not quite at the point of proving calculus yet), it has helped me in our homeschooling journey - not the credential, but the experience.

 

So, I do not buy the idea of a useless degree, unless the person who received it was not changed by the experience. I do not see the applicability to a job to be a measure of the worth of a college degree.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I don't think there is a useless degree. As long as someone is passionate about it and loves learning it is never a waste. I don't think everyone has to go to college, but learning is never useless.

 

I agree. I tried to post this, but you said it more eloquently and more succinctly.