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Another School Shooting - Santa Fe TX

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My heart goes out to all of the students and families. The shooter has been arrested, the sheriff has stated there are multiple casualties. Details are slow, they have more critical things to do than to update the press, I'm sure.

When will we do something? Lord, have mercy.

 

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5 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

8 reported dead, but on-the-ground reports seem quite uncertain.

It may take a while to sort out. I've read reports that students fled the scene and some left school property (understandably, of course) as they did so. They will have to account for everyone.

ETA: If this occurred before daily attendance was official, they may not even know how many students were in the school to begin with.

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Have been listening to this unfold with horror all morning.

Absolutely heartbroken.

Dreading sharing the news with DS.

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What bothers me even more is that it's just another school shooting.  These aren't rare at all.  Yet we do nada.

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8 minutes ago, umsami said:

What bothers me even more is that it's just another school shooting.  These aren't rare at all.  Yet we do nada.

Well when things are done, like the officer who thwarted the school shooting in Chicago earlier this week, it gets next to no press in comparison.  I think schools are making positive changes, and more than a few families are improving their safety at home too, but you’re never going to hear about anything but the blood and carnage because of the nature of news. 

 

Just because it is a quiet tide in the behavior and choices of the public doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.  And every kid flagged and caught before it hits murder levels also isn’t going to make news. But it does matter, nonetheless.

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6 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Well when things are done, like the officer who thwarted the school shooting in Chicago earlier this week, it gets next to no press in comparison.  I think schools are making positive changes, and more than a few families are improving their safety at home too, but you’re never going to hear about anything but the blood and carnage because of the nature of news. 

 

Just because it is a quiet tide in the behavior and choices of the public doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.  And every kid flagged and caught before it hits murder levels also isn’t going to make news. But it does matter, nonetheless.

Bullfeathers. More empty excuse making. I heard the Illinois school incident reported on many news outlets.

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Chicago?  I heard about one in Western Illinois in Dixon.  There was also one in Chicago?

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2 minutes ago, Katy said:

Chicago?  I heard about one in Western Illinois in Dixon.  There was also one in Chicago?

 No it was the Dixon one, I read about it in the ChiTrib and crossed wires ?

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The news of a thwarted school shooting doesn’t somehow balance out the news of a successful school shooting. A thwarted school shooting isn’t even good news because IT IS STILL AN ATTEMPTED SCHOOL SHOOTING. 

The stubborn allegiance to the NRA party line is obscene.

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16 minutes ago, Barb_ said:

The news of a thwarted school shooting doesn’t somehow balance out the news of a successful school shooting. A thwarted school shooting isn’t even good news because IT IS STILL AN ATTEMPTED SCHOOL SHOOTING. 

The stubborn allegiance to the NRA party line is obscene.

THIS.

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54 minutes ago, umsami said:

What bothers me even more is that it's just another school shooting.  These aren't rare at all.  Yet we do nada.

I agree with whoever it was that said that we should be protecting our schools like we protect our banks.  These children are priceless.  You can't count on bad people doing the right thing (following the law).  We have to campuses that are more secure and plenty of good people who can fight back.  

I think there's a bill right now in the CA legislature to give money to districts so they can add "Columbine locks" to classroom doors. I don't know more details.  Here's an article that discusses the issue, though: Lawmaker: California has ignored school lock problem for too long.  

That's where my head is right now: how do we secure campuses without making them feel like prisons?  

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I am usually a person who says Lord Have Mercy and our prayers are with you and all that.

When I read about this shooting this morning, I actually dropped the F Bomb. 

I am usually heartsick about shootings, but today  I feel angry. What the f are kids thinking? Where is it coming from? How does it even occur to these boys to do such horrible things? (I know, there's now plenty of models, unfortunately, so it isn't "unthinkable" anymore, which is so incredibly sad.)

These are not real questions in that I don't expect you guys to answer. I'm just pissed. 

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5 minutes ago, Chris in VA said:

I am usually a person who says Lord Have Mercy and our prayers are with you and all that.

When I read about this shooting this morning, I actually dropped the F Bomb. 

I am usually heartsick about shootings, but today  I feel angry. What the f are kids thinking? Where is it coming from? How does it even occur to these boys to do such horrible things? (I know, there's now plenty of models, unfortunately, so it isn't "unthinkable" anymore, which is so incredibly sad.)

These are not real questions in that I don't expect you guys to answer. I'm just pissed. 

This is what I think. We need to invest more in our families and communities. I believe in gun control to limit access and better mental health care as well, but those are just bandaids. We need to invest in community support for families, increasing resiliency and teaching kids how to deal with their emotions and frustrations, and we need to work against the increasing isolation people are falling into because it's so easy to function as an island these days. 

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17 minutes ago, Chris in VA said:

I am usually a person who says Lord Have Mercy and our prayers are with you and all that.

When I read about this shooting this morning, I actually dropped the F Bomb. 

I am usually heartsick about shootings, but today  I feel angry. What the f are kids thinking? Where is it coming from? How does it even occur to these boys to do such horrible things? (I know, there's now plenty of models, unfortunately, so it isn't "unthinkable" anymore, which is so incredibly sad.)

These are not real questions in that I don't expect you guys to answer. I'm just pissed. 

Yep...kid woke up this morning and planned to KILL people.  That is the HEART of the problem!

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We need to completely overhaul our mental health system. This may not prevent all school shootings, but it would also help the multitude of homeless that need mental health support.  

We need to identify why white males feel the only way to be heard is to get their name in the paper by causing as much damage to others as possible. 

We need to stop publishing their names. We need to encourage the news to not go to 24/7 coverage. Sadly, we have enough school shootings to be able to at least try it and see if it has any effect in suppressing the frequency of these events. 

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1 hour ago, Barb_ said:

The news of a thwarted school shooting doesn’t somehow balance out the news of a successful school shooting. A thwarted school shooting isn’t even good news because IT IS STILL AN ATTEMPTED SCHOOL SHOOTING. 

The stubborn allegiance to the NRA party line is obscene.

It’s no party line, just a hope that people can change and make a difference with their choices and vigilance, even if not all of the violence can be stopped.  But it always seems to devolve into a thinly veiled attempt to push the gun control party line, if we can’t even talk about improvements and changes.  

 

I’m sick of the shootings too, and I don’t like regulation against law abiding gun owners.  But when someone adds a gun safe who didn’t have one before, or a school is protected from carnage because of additional safety and awareness, it is a victory.  And every time there is a successful murder it’s a tragedy.  These things aren’t mutually exclusive.  My heart sinks every time there is another shooting, and I can’t get why someone would ever murder another person in cold blood, student or no.  I don’t understand that kind of evil.  But I do get the impulse to restrain it and am heartened that parents and teachers and even other students ARE trying, within the area they CAN control, to help guard against the sort of tragedy that unfolded today in Texas.

 

This was a senseless, evil act.  But there is some light in the darkness, and I choose to focus on that and what I *can* control, and when someone else does manage to act bravely and selflessly it reminds me it isn’t totally hopeless and that small changes CAN help.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Plum Crazy said:

We need to completely overhaul our mental health system. This may not prevent all school shootings, but it would also help the multitude of homeless that need mental health support.  

We need to identify why white males feel the only way to be heard is to get their name in the paper by causing as much damage to others as possible. 

We need to stop publishing their names. We need to encourage the news to not go to 24/7 coverage. Sadly, we have enough school shootings to be able to at least try it and see if it has any effect in suppressing the frequency of these events. 

 

Not to mention a full third of those in prisons would be better served by adequate mental health services.  Meaning everyone would be safer, not just kids unfortunate enough to go to public high schools.

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2 hours ago, umsami said:

Yet we do nada.

We continue to send useless thoughts and prayers. 

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9 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

We continue to send useless thoughts and prayers. 

My God hears our grief and listens to our prayers and gives us a promise of His victory over the grave that WILL come to fruition in the fullness of His time.  It is not useless, but it is a sobering reminder of the exceeding sinfulness of sin and our need for salvation from it.  Suffering and death aren’t the end of the story, but they do remind us of our lack of control and power over the depths of evil in the hearts of men.  Only God can change that, and that is what I pray for.

 

You may think they’re useless, but we aren’t praying to you.  

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1 hour ago, Barb_ said:

The news of a thwarted school shooting doesn’t somehow balance out the news of a successful school shooting. A thwarted school shooting isn’t even good news because IT IS STILL AN ATTEMPTED SCHOOL SHOOTING. 

The stubborn allegiance to the NRA party line is obscene.

No Notoriety (from the Sandy Hook parents) has an article that is entirely too short but supports the idea that the news is imbalanced. We need to increase the publicity on prevented attempts (I would add paying special attention to where students are arrested for threats) in order to encourage others to speak out and discourage those who might be thinking about attempting their own school shooting. At the same time, the publicity surrounding a mass shooting needs to be respectfully desensationalized. Grieving family members, the local police, and members of the public and local media that need to be informed are the only ones that should know all of the details. The world does not have to know exactly how the shooter did what he did and why. It is actually against the public interest to know, but we, as a culture, are not able to accept that it does us absolutely no good to know the details. 

http://kut.org/post/give-shooters-less-publicity-tell-stories-prevented-tragedies-experts-say

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1 hour ago, Barb_ said:

The news of a thwarted school shooting doesn’t somehow balance out the news of a successful school shooting. A thwarted school shooting isn’t even good news because IT IS STILL AN ATTEMPTED SCHOOL SHOOTING. 

The stubborn allegiance to the NRA party line is obscene.

How long before the former treasonous  felon who sold missiles illegally to Iran in order to fund  a covert war calls any SanteFe student who becomes a spokesperson for common sense gun legislation a terrorist? 

How long before Limbaugh and a thousand other right wing arseholes begin their ‘crisis actor’  BS?

The shooter supposedly  left pressure cookers and explosives? Of course he did— this was obviously an explosive free zone!!! We all know only a good guy with a nail filled pressure cooker can stop a bad guy with a pressure cooker...

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Oh please!  The NRA, O.N., and "right wing arseholes" are not the fomenters of the hate in these young people who KILL.  What a distraction. These kids want to (and do) KILL others...that is the problem.  

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One thing that is being said was that this student was fascinated by Nazis.  Maybe not teaching history is part of the problem.  At least with regards to his name, he would have been a target of Nazis.   He also was on facebook with Born to Kill t-shirt.  We do not yet know where he got the gun.  All we know is that it was illegal for him to have a gun, have an explosive and kill and injure people.  

Since he couldn't legally buy any kind of weapon, I fail to see how stopping sales of any particular weapon would have stopped this carnage.

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5 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

One thing that is being said was that this student was fascinated by Nazis.  Maybe not teaching history is part of the problem.  At least with regards to his name, he would have been a target of Nazis.   He also was on facebook with Born to Kill t-shirt.  We do not yet know where he got the gun.  All we know is that it was illegal for him to have a gun, have an explosive and kill and injure people.  

Since he couldn't legally buy any kind of weapon, I fail to see how stopping sales of any particular weapon would have stopped this carnage.

 

Most people I know in real life who argue for more gun control after events like this now openly argue all guns should be banned.

When asked what about those who live in the country where police response might take hours or weeks and its considered a moral duty to be able to protect your family from wildlife and criminals they never seem to have a good answer.

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From the current press release from the officials (happening now):
--Shooter used shotgun and .38 revolver that was legally owned by dad. Do not know how weapons obtained, etc.
--From preliminary review of personal "journal", shooter intended to commit suicide during this event. He says has did not have the nerve when it came down to it and surrendered.
--There were 3 IEDs planted: 1 in school, 1 in shooter vehicle, 1 in home (not clear exactly which home).

 

Some kids that were "interviewed" that knew this kid said he was bullied by students and coaches, but he was quiet and somewhat a loner. That is from the students in this aftermath so take that for what it's worth. At least our state officials are talking about thinking out of the box to harden the schools against this particular violence. I for one am sick of the "solution" getting bogged down in gun-control, mental health, and other big-picture (important but long-term) discussions. I want a solution for schools in particular right now in the current culture and under current laws. ?

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6 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

Most people I know in real life who argue for more gun control after events like this now openly argue all guns should be banned.

When asked what about those who live in the country where police response might take hours or weeks and its considered a moral duty to be able to protect your family from wildlife and criminals they never seem to have a good answer.

Actually Australia, when they revamped their gun laws after a mass shooting, put in an exception for farmers and such.  People need to show a need, but that exemption did exist.

 

Of course, you are far more likely to be killed, or have a family member killed, by a gun then you are to defend yourself or your family. (<1%)

The bigger issue with our gun laws that is rarely talked about is how easy access increases the likelihood of a successful suicide.   Teens who use a firearm to kill themselves most often have gotten it from a family member (more than 80% of the time).  

Your teens are far more likely to die from suicide using a firearm than via a school shooting.  At least today, that is.  Almost seems like that will go the other way. ?

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, debinindy said:

Oh please!  The NRA, O.N., and "right wing arseholes" are not the fomenters of the hate in these young people who KILL.  What a distraction. These kids want to (and do) KILL others...that is the problem.  

The kid's social media was full of gun worship and Neo-Nazi stuff. The pages he followed on instagram included ten gun-nut pages and three Trump pages. The cover photo on his FB page was from a Pertubator album often played by the Daily Stormer. Pointing out the connections here is not a "distraction."

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1 hour ago, aggie96 said:

From the current press release from the officials (happening now):
--Shooter used shotgun and .38 revolver that was legally owned by dad. Do not know how weapons obtained, etc.
--From preliminary review of personal "journal", shooter intended to commit suicide during this event. He says has did not have the nerve when it came down to it and surrendered.
--There were 3 IEDs planted: 1 in school, 1 in shooter vehicle, 1 in home (not clear exactly which home).

The Houston Chronicle's timeline still doesn't show the arrest of the father. He needs to be perp walked right this minute. Then he needs to be charged with 10 counts of accessory to murder. I hope he never sees the outside of a correctional facility ever again. That would be a good use of my tax money.

We can't do much right now, but this is something that can be done and it needs to be done immediately. I want to see that father's face on my local Houston evening news and make him as infamous as his son. Maybe then another irresponsible gun owner will think twice before he lets his Nazi worshipping spawn know the combination of the gun safe.

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I don't understand this concept of "distraction".  How is talking about weapon access and mental health services distracting from the tragedy of mentally ill people committing mass murders?  It's DESCRIBING the circumstances of actual incidents!  It's not "Hey, lookie over here at this flying pig!"

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2 hours ago, umsami said:

Actually Australia, when they revamped their gun laws after a mass shooting, put in an exception for farmers and such.  People need to show a need, but that exemption did exist.

 

Of course, you are far more likely to be killed, or have a family member killed, by a gun then you are to defend yourself or your family. (<1%)

The bigger issue with our gun laws that is rarely talked about is how easy access increases the likelihood of a successful suicide.   Teens who use a firearm to kill themselves most often have gotten it from a family member (more than 80% of the time).  

Your teens are far more likely to die from suicide using a firearm than via a school shooting.  At least today, that is.  Almost seems like that will go the other way. ?

 

 

 

The biggest mass shooting since Port Arthur occurred here last week or the week before.  Sadly it was a homeschooling family.  Grandmother, mum, four kids and the grandfather shot.  It's believed that it was murder suicide by the grandfather (though the mums ex made some pretty disturbing comments as well but police are confident he wasn't involved).

Rural family so no issues with gun access.  Financial difficulties for the grandfather.

aside from that, I'm so sorry to hear what happened over there in Texas.

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2 hours ago, Katy said:

 

Most people I know in real life who argue for more gun control after events like this now openly argue all guns should be banned.

When asked what about those who live in the country where police response might take hours or weeks and its considered a moral duty to be able to protect your family from wildlife and criminals they never seem to have a good answer.

 

Katy, what do you think has caused the shift in their thinking?

Perhaps you live in a more liberal area than I do? I still am not hearing people irl in my area asking for a complete ban, but I sense that patience is wearing thin. I know my own is. I am also mindful that every mass shooting is a highly profitable event for the arms industry.

We have had several of these threads in the past year and I don't remember anyone saying the Margaret in Co. couldn't have a gun to protect her livestock. There have been questions about the "need" for 100 guns in your suburban guestroom closet.

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45 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

The Houston Chronicle's timeline still doesn't show the arrest of the father. He needs to be perp walked right this minute. Then he needs to be charged with 10 counts of accessory to murder. I hope he never sees the outside of a correctional facility ever again. That would be a good use of my tax money.

We can't do much right now, but this is something that can be done and it needs to be done immediately. I want to see that father's face on my local Houston evening news and make him as infamous as his son. Maybe then another irresponsible gun owner will think twice before he lets his Nazi worshipping spawn know the combination of the gun safe.

 

This man's life is going to be a living hell from now on. Before I threw gasoline on to the fire, I would need to have more information. When the 16 yo son of a dear friend, committed suicide, he retrieved the gun from a locked gun safe. I think kids who have regular access to firearms, aren't clueless about how to get at those firearms even if parents take reasonable precautions. Now if the Dad stored his loaded gun on the nightstand...

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4 hours ago, debinindy said:

Yep...kid woke up this morning and planned to KILL people.  That is the HEART of the problem!

 

Boy. Boy woke up and planned to kill people.

A miniscule number of mass shooters are female. This is an overwhelmingly male problem. 

I don't mean to pick on your post at all, so forgive me for quoting you, yours was just the last in a couple of posts talking about 'kids' and 'people'. Yes, boys are kids and they are people also, but if there is going to be a focus on what's going on in these murderers minds, that has to include the fact that they are boys/men, and being socialised in ways distinct from that of girls.

 

 

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I really, really don't think this is a case of someone waking up this morning and deciding to shoot up a school. When multiple explosive devices and multiple locations are involved it sure doesn't indicate a spur-of-the-moment decision but rather some cold, premeditated planning.

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3 hours ago, umsami said:

Actually Australia, when they revamped their gun laws after a mass shooting, put in an exception for farmers and such.  People need to show a need, but that exemption did exist.

 

Of course, you are far more likely to be killed, or have a family member killed, by a gun then you are to defend yourself or your family. (<1%)

The bigger issue with our gun laws that is rarely talked about is how easy access increases the likelihood of a successful suicide.   Teens who use a firearm to kill themselves most often have gotten it from a family member (more than 80% of the time).  

Your teens are far more likely to die from suicide using a firearm than via a school shooting.  At least today, that is.  Almost seems like that will go the other way. ?

 

 

 

 

And a farmer in Western Australia just used his guns to murder his wife, his daughter, and his four grandchildren, then kill himself. You know what the profile is of family annihilators ? (I know you know).

Male. 

It's the factor that NEVER gets discussed.

US laws are not going to change. That's just how things are. It is almost pointless having the discussion again. 

A minority of citizens will continue to own a majority of guns, and most of them will be law abiding, but some won't...and the vast, vast majority of those who aren't ? Male. So let's talk about that. And suicide risks in men are well worth discussing; it's a major health problem for males. That the risk increases with guns in the picture ? Also worth discussing. 

 

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Once again I find myself wondering how parents of teens can feel safe with guns in their homes. I'm not trying to shame anyone, truly. But I have raised several teens and they have all gone through difficult times (some more than others). I can't imagine having a weapon in my home that one of my dc or their friends may have access to. 

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6 minutes ago, GinaPagnato said:

Once again I find myself wondering how parents of teens can feel safe with guns in their homes. I'm not trying to shame anyone, truly. But I have raised several teens and they have all gone through difficult times (some more than others). I can't imagine having a weapon in my home that one of my dc or their friends may have access to. 

My husband is retired NYPD and we've always had guns in our home - still do. Two of our daughters dealt with depression/anxiety as teens, one was hospitalized. We keep the guns in a safe to which even I don't have the pw and we later bought a locked box for all the medication.

I don't know how this boy got to his Dad's guns but I am not going to assume that he - the Dad - is criminally responsible.

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3 hours ago, Katy said:

 

Most people I know in real life who argue for more gun control after events like this now openly argue all guns should be banned.

When asked what about those who live in the country where police response might take hours or weeks and its considered a moral duty to be able to protect your family from wildlife and criminals they never seem to have a good answer.

 

I am someone who would be fine with a complete ban. The majority of individuals in this country do not need guns, they want them. I would still expect there to be exceptions for those with a demonstrable need.  That is common sense.

Having said the above, I am happy with better gun control vs. a full on ban. There are a variety of steps, if also enforced, that could help even if nothing will completely eliminate gun violence.  

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As far as female shooters...when I was a teen a 16yo girl shot up an elementary school near her home. I believe she injured several children and killed 2 adults. The Boomtown Rats wrote a song about it - chilling.

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4 minutes ago, Liza Q said:

As far as female shooters...when I was a teen a 16yo girl shot up an elementary school near her home. I believe she injured several children and killed 2 adults. The Boomtown Rats wrote a song about it - chilling.

 

Yes, it happens.....rarely.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/476445/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-gender/

 

 

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Apparently there was a school police officer (retired from active duty and thus well trained) who got shot too. I’m assuming he was armed,  but haven’t read for sure. Thankfully he survived, but almost didn’t. 

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1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

The biggest mass shooting since Port Arthur occurred here last week or the week before.  Sadly it was a homeschooling family.  Grandmother, mum, four kids and the grandfather shot.  It's believed that it was murder suicide by the grandfather (though the mums ex made some pretty disturbing comments as well but police are confident he wasn't involved).

Rural family so no issues with gun access.  Financial difficulties for the grandfather.

aside from that, I'm so sorry to hear what happened over there in Texas.


Sadly, here in the US that's so common that it's not reported in the news as a 'mass shooting'.  What you describe there is reported as a 'domestic violence incident' here.  Those are happen so often they get about one day of play on the local (not national) news and then are forgotten.  A few years back, we had two incidents like that in two years, here in our affluent suburb.  Only one even really gets remembered here, because the mom managed to survive and holds a yearly fundraiser for domestic violence in her daughter's name.

I looked up statistics; men who murder their whole families (usually with a gun, often including themselves at the end) average about 23 cases a year in the US, so about one mass family shooting every other week.  Here's an article   While for the purposes of statistics collection those are considered mass shootings - which I think is 4+ people? - and comprise the majority of mass shootings in the US, you'll notice pretty much no one ever talks about them like they do school shootings or other mass shootings of unrelated people.  

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1 hour ago, chiguirre said:

The Houston Chronicle's timeline still doesn't show the arrest of the father. He needs to be perp walked right this minute. Then he needs to be charged with 10 counts of accessory to murder. I hope he never sees the outside of a correctional facility ever again. That would be a good use of my tax money.

 

The thing is, the father may not have done anything illegal at all. I am not familiar with gun laws in Texas specifically, but unless there are laws in place that hold him accountable for his action or inaction regarding securing his guns, it could be that he did nothing illegal. It may be that this will fall under the "simple" definition of a stolen weapon being used in a crime. I think accountability for gun ownership is one thing that needs to be put into place as part of an overall package of gun-ownership accountability and control laws.

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2 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:


Sadly, here in the US that's so common that it's not reported in the news as a 'mass shooting'.  What you describe there is reported as a 'domestic violence incident' here.  Those are happen so often they get about one day of play on the local news and then are forgotten.  A few years back, we had two incidents like that in two years, here in our affluent suburb.  Only one even really gets remembered here, because the mom managed to survive and holds a fundraiser for domestic violence in her daughter's name.

I looked up statistics; men who murder their whole families (usually with a gun, often including themselves at the end) average about 23 cases a year in the US, so about on mass family shooting every other week.  Here's an article   While for the purposes of statistics collection those are considered mass shootings (and comprise the majority of mass shootings in the US), you'll notice pretty much no one ever talks about them like they do school shootings or other mass shootings of unrelated people.  

 

Domestic violence incidents...that's appallng they get referred to that way. Mass murderers, family annihilators - terms that come closer to the horror that is a father or a grandfather deciding to take out the whole family.

 

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1 hour ago, chiguirre said:

The Houston Chronicle's timeline still doesn't show the arrest of the father. He needs to be perp walked right this minute. Then he needs to be charged with 10 counts of accessory to murder. I hope he never sees the outside of a correctional facility ever again. That would be a good use of my tax money.

We can't do much right now, but this is something that can be done and it needs to be done immediately. I want to see that father's face on my local Houston evening news and make him as infamous as his son. Maybe then another irresponsible gun owner will think twice before he lets his Nazi worshipping spawn know the combination of the gun safe.

I'll withhold judgement on the father and put all blame on the son until we have further information. We had a local case where a teen boy retrieved a handgun and shot his younger brother and it was not an accident. The gun had been in a locked gun safe at the grandfather's house. The grandfather kept the key to the gun safe at another family member's house. The teen found a way to disassemble a wood and glass gun safe, remove the bottom, steal the gun, and then put the gun safe back together! The police were shocked. When someone intends to do evil, they will find a way.

As someone said upthread, there is a problem with our boys. These shootings are almost always boys in their teens or young 20's. Too many young men are struggling and we need to find out why and what we can do about it.

 

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