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Another School Shooting - Santa Fe TX


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My heart goes out to all of the students and families. The shooter has been arrested, the sheriff has stated there are multiple casualties. Details are slow, they have more critical things to do than to update the press, I'm sure.

When will we do something? Lord, have mercy.

 

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The news of a thwarted school shooting doesn’t somehow balance out the news of a successful school shooting. A thwarted school shooting isn’t even good news because IT IS STILL AN ATTEMPTED SCHOOL SHO

ETA:Don’t quote, please.  I’m going to delete this tomorrow.   I think it’s the bullying.  It’s the way kids hurt other kids.  I was the kid that was the total outcast in school.  Honestly,

Thank you.  It’s ok now.  In my mid-thirties I went to church counseling and I forgave all those kids.  The counsellor had me write down every incident I could remember (there were a lot) and how it m

5 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

8 reported dead, but on-the-ground reports seem quite uncertain.

It may take a while to sort out. I've read reports that students fled the scene and some left school property (understandably, of course) as they did so. They will have to account for everyone.

ETA: If this occurred before daily attendance was official, they may not even know how many students were in the school to begin with.

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6 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Well when things are done, like the officer who thwarted the school shooting in Chicago earlier this week, it gets next to no press in comparison.  I think schools are making positive changes, and more than a few families are improving their safety at home too, but you’re never going to hear about anything but the blood and carnage because of the nature of news. 

 

Just because it is a quiet tide in the behavior and choices of the public doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.  And every kid flagged and caught before it hits murder levels also isn’t going to make news. But it does matter, nonetheless.

Bullfeathers. More empty excuse making. I heard the Illinois school incident reported on many news outlets.

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The news of a thwarted school shooting doesn’t somehow balance out the news of a successful school shooting. A thwarted school shooting isn’t even good news because IT IS STILL AN ATTEMPTED SCHOOL SHOOTING. 

The stubborn allegiance to the NRA party line is obscene.

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16 minutes ago, Barb_ said:

The news of a thwarted school shooting doesn’t somehow balance out the news of a successful school shooting. A thwarted school shooting isn’t even good news because IT IS STILL AN ATTEMPTED SCHOOL SHOOTING. 

The stubborn allegiance to the NRA party line is obscene.

THIS.

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54 minutes ago, umsami said:

What bothers me even more is that it's just another school shooting.  These aren't rare at all.  Yet we do nada.

I agree with whoever it was that said that we should be protecting our schools like we protect our banks.  These children are priceless.  You can't count on bad people doing the right thing (following the law).  We have to campuses that are more secure and plenty of good people who can fight back.  

I think there's a bill right now in the CA legislature to give money to districts so they can add "Columbine locks" to classroom doors. I don't know more details.  Here's an article that discusses the issue, though: Lawmaker: California has ignored school lock problem for too long.  

That's where my head is right now: how do we secure campuses without making them feel like prisons?  

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I am usually a person who says Lord Have Mercy and our prayers are with you and all that.

When I read about this shooting this morning, I actually dropped the F Bomb. 

I am usually heartsick about shootings, but today  I feel angry. What the f are kids thinking? Where is it coming from? How does it even occur to these boys to do such horrible things? (I know, there's now plenty of models, unfortunately, so it isn't "unthinkable" anymore, which is so incredibly sad.)

These are not real questions in that I don't expect you guys to answer. I'm just pissed. 

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5 minutes ago, Chris in VA said:

I am usually a person who says Lord Have Mercy and our prayers are with you and all that.

When I read about this shooting this morning, I actually dropped the F Bomb. 

I am usually heartsick about shootings, but today  I feel angry. What the f are kids thinking? Where is it coming from? How does it even occur to these boys to do such horrible things? (I know, there's now plenty of models, unfortunately, so it isn't "unthinkable" anymore, which is so incredibly sad.)

These are not real questions in that I don't expect you guys to answer. I'm just pissed. 

This is what I think. We need to invest more in our families and communities. I believe in gun control to limit access and better mental health care as well, but those are just bandaids. We need to invest in community support for families, increasing resiliency and teaching kids how to deal with their emotions and frustrations, and we need to work against the increasing isolation people are falling into because it's so easy to function as an island these days. 

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17 minutes ago, Chris in VA said:

I am usually a person who says Lord Have Mercy and our prayers are with you and all that.

When I read about this shooting this morning, I actually dropped the F Bomb. 

I am usually heartsick about shootings, but today  I feel angry. What the f are kids thinking? Where is it coming from? How does it even occur to these boys to do such horrible things? (I know, there's now plenty of models, unfortunately, so it isn't "unthinkable" anymore, which is so incredibly sad.)

These are not real questions in that I don't expect you guys to answer. I'm just pissed. 

Yep...kid woke up this morning and planned to KILL people.  That is the HEART of the problem!

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We need to completely overhaul our mental health system. This may not prevent all school shootings, but it would also help the multitude of homeless that need mental health support.  

We need to identify why white males feel the only way to be heard is to get their name in the paper by causing as much damage to others as possible. 

We need to stop publishing their names. We need to encourage the news to not go to 24/7 coverage. Sadly, we have enough school shootings to be able to at least try it and see if it has any effect in suppressing the frequency of these events. 

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21 minutes ago, Plum Crazy said:

We need to completely overhaul our mental health system. This may not prevent all school shootings, but it would also help the multitude of homeless that need mental health support.  

We need to identify why white males feel the only way to be heard is to get their name in the paper by causing as much damage to others as possible. 

We need to stop publishing their names. We need to encourage the news to not go to 24/7 coverage. Sadly, we have enough school shootings to be able to at least try it and see if it has any effect in suppressing the frequency of these events. 

 

Not to mention a full third of those in prisons would be better served by adequate mental health services.  Meaning everyone would be safer, not just kids unfortunate enough to go to public high schools.

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1 hour ago, Barb_ said:

The news of a thwarted school shooting doesn’t somehow balance out the news of a successful school shooting. A thwarted school shooting isn’t even good news because IT IS STILL AN ATTEMPTED SCHOOL SHOOTING. 

The stubborn allegiance to the NRA party line is obscene.

No Notoriety (from the Sandy Hook parents) has an article that is entirely too short but supports the idea that the news is imbalanced. We need to increase the publicity on prevented attempts (I would add paying special attention to where students are arrested for threats) in order to encourage others to speak out and discourage those who might be thinking about attempting their own school shooting. At the same time, the publicity surrounding a mass shooting needs to be respectfully desensationalized. Grieving family members, the local police, and members of the public and local media that need to be informed are the only ones that should know all of the details. The world does not have to know exactly how the shooter did what he did and why. It is actually against the public interest to know, but we, as a culture, are not able to accept that it does us absolutely no good to know the details. 

http://kut.org/post/give-shooters-less-publicity-tell-stories-prevented-tragedies-experts-say

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One thing that is being said was that this student was fascinated by Nazis.  Maybe not teaching history is part of the problem.  At least with regards to his name, he would have been a target of Nazis.   He also was on facebook with Born to Kill t-shirt.  We do not yet know where he got the gun.  All we know is that it was illegal for him to have a gun, have an explosive and kill and injure people.  

Since he couldn't legally buy any kind of weapon, I fail to see how stopping sales of any particular weapon would have stopped this carnage.

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5 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

One thing that is being said was that this student was fascinated by Nazis.  Maybe not teaching history is part of the problem.  At least with regards to his name, he would have been a target of Nazis.   He also was on facebook with Born to Kill t-shirt.  We do not yet know where he got the gun.  All we know is that it was illegal for him to have a gun, have an explosive and kill and injure people.  

Since he couldn't legally buy any kind of weapon, I fail to see how stopping sales of any particular weapon would have stopped this carnage.

 

Most people I know in real life who argue for more gun control after events like this now openly argue all guns should be banned.

When asked what about those who live in the country where police response might take hours or weeks and its considered a moral duty to be able to protect your family from wildlife and criminals they never seem to have a good answer.

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From the current press release from the officials (happening now):
--Shooter used shotgun and .38 revolver that was legally owned by dad. Do not know how weapons obtained, etc.
--From preliminary review of personal "journal", shooter intended to commit suicide during this event. He says has did not have the nerve when it came down to it and surrendered.
--There were 3 IEDs planted: 1 in school, 1 in shooter vehicle, 1 in home (not clear exactly which home).

 

Some kids that were "interviewed" that knew this kid said he was bullied by students and coaches, but he was quiet and somewhat a loner. That is from the students in this aftermath so take that for what it's worth. At least our state officials are talking about thinking out of the box to harden the schools against this particular violence. I for one am sick of the "solution" getting bogged down in gun-control, mental health, and other big-picture (important but long-term) discussions. I want a solution for schools in particular right now in the current culture and under current laws. ?

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6 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

Most people I know in real life who argue for more gun control after events like this now openly argue all guns should be banned.

When asked what about those who live in the country where police response might take hours or weeks and its considered a moral duty to be able to protect your family from wildlife and criminals they never seem to have a good answer.

Actually Australia, when they revamped their gun laws after a mass shooting, put in an exception for farmers and such.  People need to show a need, but that exemption did exist.

 

Of course, you are far more likely to be killed, or have a family member killed, by a gun then you are to defend yourself or your family. (<1%)

The bigger issue with our gun laws that is rarely talked about is how easy access increases the likelihood of a successful suicide.   Teens who use a firearm to kill themselves most often have gotten it from a family member (more than 80% of the time).  

Your teens are far more likely to die from suicide using a firearm than via a school shooting.  At least today, that is.  Almost seems like that will go the other way. ?

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, debinindy said:

Oh please!  The NRA, O.N., and "right wing arseholes" are not the fomenters of the hate in these young people who KILL.  What a distraction. These kids want to (and do) KILL others...that is the problem.  

The kid's social media was full of gun worship and Neo-Nazi stuff. The pages he followed on instagram included ten gun-nut pages and three Trump pages. The cover photo on his FB page was from a Pertubator album often played by the Daily Stormer. Pointing out the connections here is not a "distraction."

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1 hour ago, aggie96 said:

From the current press release from the officials (happening now):
--Shooter used shotgun and .38 revolver that was legally owned by dad. Do not know how weapons obtained, etc.
--From preliminary review of personal "journal", shooter intended to commit suicide during this event. He says has did not have the nerve when it came down to it and surrendered.
--There were 3 IEDs planted: 1 in school, 1 in shooter vehicle, 1 in home (not clear exactly which home).

The Houston Chronicle's timeline still doesn't show the arrest of the father. He needs to be perp walked right this minute. Then he needs to be charged with 10 counts of accessory to murder. I hope he never sees the outside of a correctional facility ever again. That would be a good use of my tax money.

We can't do much right now, but this is something that can be done and it needs to be done immediately. I want to see that father's face on my local Houston evening news and make him as infamous as his son. Maybe then another irresponsible gun owner will think twice before he lets his Nazi worshipping spawn know the combination of the gun safe.

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I don't understand this concept of "distraction".  How is talking about weapon access and mental health services distracting from the tragedy of mentally ill people committing mass murders?  It's DESCRIBING the circumstances of actual incidents!  It's not "Hey, lookie over here at this flying pig!"

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2 hours ago, umsami said:

Actually Australia, when they revamped their gun laws after a mass shooting, put in an exception for farmers and such.  People need to show a need, but that exemption did exist.

 

Of course, you are far more likely to be killed, or have a family member killed, by a gun then you are to defend yourself or your family. (<1%)

The bigger issue with our gun laws that is rarely talked about is how easy access increases the likelihood of a successful suicide.   Teens who use a firearm to kill themselves most often have gotten it from a family member (more than 80% of the time).  

Your teens are far more likely to die from suicide using a firearm than via a school shooting.  At least today, that is.  Almost seems like that will go the other way. ?

 

 

 

The biggest mass shooting since Port Arthur occurred here last week or the week before.  Sadly it was a homeschooling family.  Grandmother, mum, four kids and the grandfather shot.  It's believed that it was murder suicide by the grandfather (though the mums ex made some pretty disturbing comments as well but police are confident he wasn't involved).

Rural family so no issues with gun access.  Financial difficulties for the grandfather.

aside from that, I'm so sorry to hear what happened over there in Texas.

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2 hours ago, Katy said:

 

Most people I know in real life who argue for more gun control after events like this now openly argue all guns should be banned.

When asked what about those who live in the country where police response might take hours or weeks and its considered a moral duty to be able to protect your family from wildlife and criminals they never seem to have a good answer.

 

Katy, what do you think has caused the shift in their thinking?

Perhaps you live in a more liberal area than I do? I still am not hearing people irl in my area asking for a complete ban, but I sense that patience is wearing thin. I know my own is. I am also mindful that every mass shooting is a highly profitable event for the arms industry.

We have had several of these threads in the past year and I don't remember anyone saying the Margaret in Co. couldn't have a gun to protect her livestock. There have been questions about the "need" for 100 guns in your suburban guestroom closet.

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45 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

The Houston Chronicle's timeline still doesn't show the arrest of the father. He needs to be perp walked right this minute. Then he needs to be charged with 10 counts of accessory to murder. I hope he never sees the outside of a correctional facility ever again. That would be a good use of my tax money.

We can't do much right now, but this is something that can be done and it needs to be done immediately. I want to see that father's face on my local Houston evening news and make him as infamous as his son. Maybe then another irresponsible gun owner will think twice before he lets his Nazi worshipping spawn know the combination of the gun safe.

 

This man's life is going to be a living hell from now on. Before I threw gasoline on to the fire, I would need to have more information. When the 16 yo son of a dear friend, committed suicide, he retrieved the gun from a locked gun safe. I think kids who have regular access to firearms, aren't clueless about how to get at those firearms even if parents take reasonable precautions. Now if the Dad stored his loaded gun on the nightstand...

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I really, really don't think this is a case of someone waking up this morning and deciding to shoot up a school. When multiple explosive devices and multiple locations are involved it sure doesn't indicate a spur-of-the-moment decision but rather some cold, premeditated planning.

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Once again I find myself wondering how parents of teens can feel safe with guns in their homes. I'm not trying to shame anyone, truly. But I have raised several teens and they have all gone through difficult times (some more than others). I can't imagine having a weapon in my home that one of my dc or their friends may have access to. 

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6 minutes ago, GinaPagnato said:

Once again I find myself wondering how parents of teens can feel safe with guns in their homes. I'm not trying to shame anyone, truly. But I have raised several teens and they have all gone through difficult times (some more than others). I can't imagine having a weapon in my home that one of my dc or their friends may have access to. 

My husband is retired NYPD and we've always had guns in our home - still do. Two of our daughters dealt with depression/anxiety as teens, one was hospitalized. We keep the guns in a safe to which even I don't have the pw and we later bought a locked box for all the medication.

I don't know how this boy got to his Dad's guns but I am not going to assume that he - the Dad - is criminally responsible.

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3 hours ago, Katy said:

 

Most people I know in real life who argue for more gun control after events like this now openly argue all guns should be banned.

When asked what about those who live in the country where police response might take hours or weeks and its considered a moral duty to be able to protect your family from wildlife and criminals they never seem to have a good answer.

 

I am someone who would be fine with a complete ban. The majority of individuals in this country do not need guns, they want them. I would still expect there to be exceptions for those with a demonstrable need.  That is common sense.

Having said the above, I am happy with better gun control vs. a full on ban. There are a variety of steps, if also enforced, that could help even if nothing will completely eliminate gun violence.  

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As far as female shooters...when I was a teen a 16yo girl shot up an elementary school near her home. I believe she injured several children and killed 2 adults. The Boomtown Rats wrote a song about it - chilling.

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Apparently there was a school police officer (retired from active duty and thus well trained) who got shot too. I’m assuming he was armed,  but haven’t read for sure. Thankfully he survived, but almost didn’t. 

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1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

The biggest mass shooting since Port Arthur occurred here last week or the week before.  Sadly it was a homeschooling family.  Grandmother, mum, four kids and the grandfather shot.  It's believed that it was murder suicide by the grandfather (though the mums ex made some pretty disturbing comments as well but police are confident he wasn't involved).

Rural family so no issues with gun access.  Financial difficulties for the grandfather.

aside from that, I'm so sorry to hear what happened over there in Texas.


Sadly, here in the US that's so common that it's not reported in the news as a 'mass shooting'.  What you describe there is reported as a 'domestic violence incident' here.  Those are happen so often they get about one day of play on the local (not national) news and then are forgotten.  A few years back, we had two incidents like that in two years, here in our affluent suburb.  Only one even really gets remembered here, because the mom managed to survive and holds a yearly fundraiser for domestic violence in her daughter's name.

I looked up statistics; men who murder their whole families (usually with a gun, often including themselves at the end) average about 23 cases a year in the US, so about one mass family shooting every other week.  Here's an article   While for the purposes of statistics collection those are considered mass shootings - which I think is 4+ people? - and comprise the majority of mass shootings in the US, you'll notice pretty much no one ever talks about them like they do school shootings or other mass shootings of unrelated people.  

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1 hour ago, chiguirre said:

The Houston Chronicle's timeline still doesn't show the arrest of the father. He needs to be perp walked right this minute. Then he needs to be charged with 10 counts of accessory to murder. I hope he never sees the outside of a correctional facility ever again. That would be a good use of my tax money.

 

The thing is, the father may not have done anything illegal at all. I am not familiar with gun laws in Texas specifically, but unless there are laws in place that hold him accountable for his action or inaction regarding securing his guns, it could be that he did nothing illegal. It may be that this will fall under the "simple" definition of a stolen weapon being used in a crime. I think accountability for gun ownership is one thing that needs to be put into place as part of an overall package of gun-ownership accountability and control laws.

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1 hour ago, chiguirre said:

The Houston Chronicle's timeline still doesn't show the arrest of the father. He needs to be perp walked right this minute. Then he needs to be charged with 10 counts of accessory to murder. I hope he never sees the outside of a correctional facility ever again. That would be a good use of my tax money.

We can't do much right now, but this is something that can be done and it needs to be done immediately. I want to see that father's face on my local Houston evening news and make him as infamous as his son. Maybe then another irresponsible gun owner will think twice before he lets his Nazi worshipping spawn know the combination of the gun safe.

I'll withhold judgement on the father and put all blame on the son until we have further information. We had a local case where a teen boy retrieved a handgun and shot his younger brother and it was not an accident. The gun had been in a locked gun safe at the grandfather's house. The grandfather kept the key to the gun safe at another family member's house. The teen found a way to disassemble a wood and glass gun safe, remove the bottom, steal the gun, and then put the gun safe back together! The police were shocked. When someone intends to do evil, they will find a way.

As someone said upthread, there is a problem with our boys. These shootings are almost always boys in their teens or young 20's. Too many young men are struggling and we need to find out why and what we can do about it.

 

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34 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

2018 has been deadlier for schoolchildren than service members

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/18/2018-has-been-deadlier-for-schoolchildren-than-service-members/?noredirect=on&amp;utm_term=.c0ada9380835

 

 

That is such a horrible headline.  

 

I have no words.

Well, I have words, but the computer will star them out and I will not enhance my reputation. 

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I would love to see a discussion as to why boys/young men/people decide to kill - premeditated or not. What about root causes? How did our kids and adolescents get to the point that the taking of another life is acceptable or even a glorious way to make a statement??

However, these threads usually turn into discussion about guns. 

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4 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

I would love to see a discussion as to why boys/young men/people decide to kill - premeditated or not. What about root causes? How did our kids and adolescents get to the point that the taking of another life is acceptable or even a glorious way to make a statement??

However, these threads usually turn into discussion about guns. 

Perhaps it starts with the idea that men are the logical ones and women are the emotional ones. Too often if boys show too many emotions, they’re bullied and belittled.  (Suck it up, be a man.)  It’s ok for them to show anger, but not much else.  They have to be very, very careful about what they show or risk repercussions.  

And when you can’t express emotions or think you’re not even allowed to have gentle emotions, it’s going to thwart your ability to express negative things in a healthy way.  

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3 minutes ago, Garga said:

Perhaps it starts with the idea that men are the logical ones and women are the emotional ones. Too often if boys show too many emotions, they’re bullied and belittled.  (Suck it up, be a man.)  It’s ok for them to show anger, but not much else.  They have to be very, very careful about what they show or risk repercussions.  

And when you can’t express emotions or think you’re not even allowed to have gentle emotions, it’s going to thwart your ability to express negative things in a healthy way.  

 

I agree that this is definitely an issue. Healthy expression of anger is often discouraged as well in the misguided belief that all anger is bad.

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7 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

Bullfeathers. More empty excuse making. I heard the Illinois school incident reported on many news outlets.

I didn’t.  And just because she has a point on the excessive coverage (which can been seen by some vulnerable minds as glorification) of the most tragic events does not she is down playing the events or making excuses. It was simply a comment

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6 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

I would love to see a discussion as to why boys/young men/people decide to kill - premeditated or not. What about root causes? How did our kids and adolescents get to the point that the taking of another life is acceptable or even a glorious way to make a statement??

However, these threads usually turn into discussion about guns. 

 

I am not sure you can take guns completely out of the equation. In our culture, guns are "equalizers." They give the perception of power to those who feel less powerful or powerless. Gun culture dictates that they are "cool" and "sexy."

Many of the young men who are school shooters are often of at least middle class. Does a sense of entitlement come in to play? I don't know. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, swimmermom3 said:

 

I am not sure you can take guns completely out of the equation. In our culture, guns are "equalizers." They give the perception of power to those who feel less powerful or powerless. Gun culture dictates that they are "cool" and "sexy."

Many of the young men who are school shooters are often of at least middle class. Does a sense of entitlement come in to play? I don't know. 

 

 

 

I think you put your finger on something important. The powerlessness feeling counteracted by the ultimate power of a gun may be connected. But how did we handle feelings of powerlessness when we were young? I am sure there were times when I felt despondent or powerless over something. It would never have occurred to us to actually convert our less than charitable thoughts about another person into murderous actions. There are no "brakes" anymore in so many people. Everything spills over and out and the capability to sit with a less than euphoric feeling and let it run its course seems alien to many young men I talk to. 

Granted, sometimes issues are bigger than just "letting it pass." Evidently, they don't feel they have someone in whom they can confide, whom they can trust to contain their anguish and pain?

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7 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

Bullfeathers. More empty excuse making. I heard the Illinois school incident reported on many news outlets.

I dunno, I think the fact that a thread popped up today as info is still unfolding, and yet, the first mention of the incident in Illinois on this board is in fact in this very thread, and wasn’t 2 days ago to be pretty telling.  Even on this board, apparently blood and carnage is more interesting than successfully stopping someone intent on blood and carnage.  

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20 minutes ago, texasmom33 said:

I don’t know why it’s just boys taking their wrath out in such violence- personally I think girls are more subversive and either hurt themselves or do other, less obvious types of self abuse and coping. I have noticed in general more parents being checked out and happy to let social media and video games stand in for parenting. Where I live we saw it early. Parents would buy everything and just hope the kids stayed out of their hair. I think it’s different for homeschoolers becauee we are so involved- sometimes maybe overly involved- we don’t realize that some parents go all day or days without speaking to their teens. 

Our local high schools are also pressure cookers with competitive everything. They’re huge. They’re anonymous.  and unless you are the richest, the brightest, and/or the most athletic, you’re not going to have a lot of options or stand out. If you don’t have money, you can’t do extracurriculars because you will never make the team or the band or anything else. You can’t afford the travel teams or the private music lessons, or the band uniforms, or the tutoring to keep up with the kids who can afford it and when you have 3-5k kids in a high school, that doesn’t mean there are more spots on the football or basketball team. It just means fewer people make it.  I don’t understand how all of that factors in but I can’t help but think that it does. Schools other places might be different but where we are, that is exactly how it goes in the public high schools roll.  

 

This. So many times. I work with people immersed in drug / alcohol abuse and so often they tell of a childhood where there was nobody who seemed to care what was going on with them. Cutting among girls seems to be on the rise as well.

Have we become such lazy parents that it's preferable to hand the kid an ipad so we can check FB messages? Sometimes, I hope for something to take out a satellite or two for a couple months (I'd miss you all) but would it not be interesting to see how this could "reset" a whole society so involved in everything with a screen?
 

Regarding the second paragraph bolded: And not only may someone feel so inferior because they cannot compete on some level (this has been going on since pre-screens) but now this can and is discussed on public forum like FB, Instagram, etc. Slander has become common and now it spreads far wider than just a few people. Social media harassment may have far worse implications than face to face harassment.

In college they taught us that we all need from our parents: 

  • Attunement = genuine warmth, caring
  • Availability = being there, available
  • Attachment = bonding

 

for healthy development. I wonder if more and more kids are not getting any of this - not just missing 1 or 2 out of 3?

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