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I really need some math advice for my dd.  She's in 9th grade and using TT Algebra and has been struggling this year.  I decided to have her take another year of Algebra because she's not a strong math student and I want her to have a solid Algebra foundation.  I had her take a placement test for Saxon.  She couldn't answer over half the problems on the placement test!  I sat down with her later and we walked through  the problems together.  I figured out she has forgotten how to do some  pre-algebra skills (percents, decimals), but the biggest problem is she can't figure out how to do any word problems.  She has used Teaching Textbooks for several years, we did try Math U See for Pre-Algebra last year specifically because I thought she wasn't retaining as well as she should and thought a mastery approach would be better. She asked to go back to TT this year.  Her grades in math have always been good A/B, but there is a definite lack of understanding. She is not at all mathy. 

So I guess I'm looking for advice about what to try now.  I really don't want to place her in Saxon 87 as a 10th grader-which is where she placed.  But I don't want her to keep going forward and not understand anything- just plug in a pattern. She does understand the Algebra she has learned so far, but is still shaky and very slow, which is why I thought another year of Algebra with a different publisher would be beneficial.  I just didn't think she'd have to go back two or three grades!  I did look into mathnasium thinking they could help with week spots, but it is $400 a month!  

I am just at a loss as to where to go next.  I have graduated two, and neither were super "mathy" ,but they used TT and did fine.  Any suggestions are welcome!

(I am not a new member.  I've been here since the old, old boards- 2006.  I just haven't merged my accounts yet)

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Teaching Textbooks doesn't provide enough practice for all students - some need a lot more repetition to retain the information.  Also, some kids really do need to interact with another person to get the math - videos just aren't the same as having a tutor next to you asking questions you have to be able to explain.  I suggest that over the summer, before taking Algebra 1 again, you work directly with her on pre-algebra skills or hire a tutor to do so.   

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If you can determine what pre-algebra skills exactly she is missing, I'd spend the summer and go back and redo those. I really liked the Key to Fractions/Decimals book series, so possibly consider doing those. They are very step-by-step teaching and build slowly through the series. 

How is her reading comprehension? Sometimes that can interfere with word problems. If her reading comprehension is fine, I'd work with her on developing a key word list for word problems to help her translate the language into math symbols. 

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What you can do with Saxon 8/7 or whichever program you decide to go with is, have her take the test and the end of each chapter/section/unit. So long as she does well on the test, you move on to the test for the next chapter.  You keep going until she takes a test she is no longer passing. You then have her start the book in the chapter that she starts having trouble in.  For example, let's say you have her take the tests for chapters 1-12 (in whichever book you go with) and she does well (85+ or whatever level of mastery feels right to you). Then, let's say you have her take the chapter 13 test and  she scores a 70.  You would then have her start the book at chapter 13.  This way you are not going ALL the way back to the beginning. I'm doing a terrible job of explaining this.  I hope it makes some sense.  Have her take one test a day, unless she completes a test in 20 minutes and you think she can handle another one.  Just an idea. Hope it helps.

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Thank you.  I'm going to look into the Key to books- I may even have a  fraction book somewhere : ).  

Her reading comprehension is great!  She just doesn't seem to understand how to figure out what the word problem is asking her to do.  I think she sees a pattern on her daily lessons so she can just plug the new concept into the word problem and it usually comes out right.  It's as if she can't think through the word problem at all if it doesn't relate to the concept of the day.  I will work on a key word list for her- great idea!

Any suggestions for an Algebra program?  I am planning on working with her daily now since I think she really needs a live person.

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I'll second the idea of working through the math with her.  I noticed a huge improvement with my youngest when I started doing the lessons with him.  We work for an hour a day and each of us does every problem, then we compare answers and techniques.  Usually we are well matched.  Sometimes I'm faster; sometimes he gets it and I'm just staring at the problem.

One of our math programs included the step of acting out stories with manipulatives.  They could be stories about bears on a playground coming and going (addition and subtraction), or about foam shapes (which got into fractions).  Usually these lessons would start out with us acting out a scripted story (aka word problem).  But they usually wrapped around to our taking turns creating a story for the other person.  I liked this step, because the process of using words to describe what the math was also describing was helpful in later translating word problems into math expressions.

tl;dr.  Work math with her.   Even teens and grownups can benefit from manipulatives.  Do "stories" to help with connecting word problems and number expressions.

 

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9 minutes ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

One of our math programs included the step of acting out stories with manipulatives.  They could be stories about bears on a playground coming and going (addition and subtraction), or about foam shapes (which got into fractions).  Usually these lessons would start out with us acting out a scripted story (aka word problem).  But they usually wrapped around to our taking turns creating a story for the other person.  I liked this step, because the process of using words to describe what the math was also describing was helpful in later translating word problems into math expressions.

tl;dr.  Work math with her.   Even teens and grownups can benefit from manipulatives.  Do "stories" to help with connecting word problems and number expressions.

 

What program is this? DH is tasked with doing math with DD but all he’s asked for is a whiteboard ?

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3 hours ago, madteaparty said:

What program is this? DH is tasked with doing math with DD but all he’s asked for is a whiteboard ?

I am thinking of the way our elementary and middle grade program introduced concepts.  But the approach could be used with most math programs.  Sometimes my son and I still try to top each other with silly word problems. 

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3 hours ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

I am thinking of the way our elementary and middle grade program introduced concepts.  But the approach could be used with most math programs.  Sometimes my son and I still try to top each other with silly word problems. 

That’s what I was asking, what elementary program does that? DD is in second grade ?

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I would work this summer to shore up some of your daughter's weak areas and wait until the beginning of the fall to pick a program for next school year. 

I also think the Key to Series would be a good place to begin to make sure that your daughter has mastered the mechanics of fractions, decimals, and percents.  I would also incorporate in some manipulatives to make sure that she also has a conceptual understanding of the topics.  (I tutor many students who can perform the mechanics and arrive at a correct answer, but have no idea of what the answer really means.  Manipulatives help to remedy this situation.)

In my experience, many students struggle with story problems because either their text book does not provide enough practice problems, or every practice problem follows the same "plug and chug" pattern.  They can solve the story problems in the text book, but struggle when they encounter the same concept worded differently than what they are used to seeing.

To help gain problem solving skills, I would purchase Singapore's Challenging Word Problem workbook.  I would start with Level 3 and have your daughter use her algebra skills rather than teaching her the Singapore bar method.  I have had a lot of success using this approach with students who are in algebra, but struggling with story problems.

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Chiming in to agree with doing algebra with her. Kudo's to you for being willing to do that. I'd look at Foerster or Lial's. I also agree with something like Keys, or just make index cards with problems about fractions/decimals/percents etc(that's what I did with mine who seemed to have forgotten everything). Foerster has word problem sections in each chapter.  You will be less bored with Foerster than Saxon IMO.  I posted on this thread about how I do algebra review https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/672167-looking-for-daily-spiral-review-for-algebra-i/ . I got the idea from lewelma. That would be a great way to increase retention as you work through another algebra book.

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