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Drama/Patience issue...any thoughts...


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My dd 14 has an issue that we can't seem to resolve after two years of realizing it was an issue.  

When confronted with a problem in math, putting something together, on a website, new app on computer, etc....

She will bring the problem to a family member and ask them to look at it.  She will hand them the paper/device/computer/thing to be assembled..

The personal will look at it for literally two seconds, and be working on just looking at it, observing it, just figuring it out...and my dd will start getting extremely upset/agitated, saying that it's not that, she already looked it, that's not the problem, trying to grab it back.

My dd is fairly neurotypical other than mild focus issues and dyslexia.  NO aspergers, autism, OCD or anything like that.  

Example:

brings me her Spotify, (very upset), "Look at what they did to my songs!!! They took them all away!!!"  

hands me the phone 

Me:  immediatley observes the app has been updated and tries to click on "see more" under her short list of songs, 

Her:  THat's not it, what are you clicking, LOok at the screen I showed you!!!

Me: You have to give me a chance to look at it.  I think they just updated the app

Her: Grabs the phone back _ NO see here!! They're all gone

Me: You haven't even given me the chance to help

Her: I wasnt ASKING for help I"M JUST UPSRT THEY TOOK ALL MY SONGS OFF

Me; If you give me the phone I think I figured it out

Her: very upset retreats to her desk, puts her head down and starts working on schoolwork 

Me; See it says "See more" here are all your songs, they just updated the look and feel of the app.  

her: Comes back, sees that it's all there, clicks on it, checks on all her songs....

 

Now, i don't think it's an OCD things, I think it's a patience and impatience thing...because she will act this way with brand new projects as well.  She was trying to assemble a bow and arrow, asked for help, her brother tried to help and within literally three seconds of him sitting down on the floor to look at the bow and arrow, she was already grabbing, interrupting him, talking over him and telling him he was "wrong" because she "already tried that" and the poor boy didn't even have a chance to LOOK at the manual and take it all in, let alone be wrong or right about anything. 

I completely stopped helping her with math, her dad refuses to teach her how to drive, her brother dropped the bow and arrow and said fine I'm not helping you.

I'd like for her to learn this one thing:  When you ask for help or bring something to someone, they need five minutes to take it in and look at it, then they will offer their ideas or try things out.  Relax, shut up, sit down and let them take a look.  Sit back and let them fuss with it.  Maybe they won't have a solution, maybe they will but no one can do anything unless you give them a chance! 

But we are so not getting through 

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I think the key to her behavior might be this phrase: " I wasn't ASKING for help I"M JUST UPSET THEY TOOK ALL MY SONGS OFF"

It is possible that bringing her problem to another person is her way to vent and process frustration. Have any of you tried asking her "Do you want me to figure out a solution, or do you just need me to listen to you?"

 

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Hmm. From your descriptions it sounds like perhaps she isn't actually looking for help, rather upset and wanting to vent. Maybe instead you could coach her to say that instead of using words that ask for help. 

I have literally sat on my hands and asked, "do you want help or are you just venting?"

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Agreed that it sounds like she would rather fuss than get help, but there is the issue of bringing the device, problem, etc to someone else, presumably to ask for help, but then refusing to be helped or allow anyone to help. And yeah--that's an issue. Plus no one wants to teach her things she needs to learn, like driving. 

How frustrating. I'm not sure I have help for you, but boy, that sounds like a challenge for both of you. And she may have to change her way of operating as much as anything else. 

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This sounds like a lot of the interactions I have had with my husband over the years. But I'm a grown-up who knows how to say, "I just need you to listen. I just need support. Stop trying to fix things." And dh has become pretty good at saying, "Do you want my help or do you want me to just listen." 

I think this is a really common interaction. It sounds like your daughter needs some coaching on how to verbally express that she just wants support and a listening ear. And everybody else probably just needs to just give her sympathy and some positive encouragement, because it sounds like she mostly wants to figure things out by herself. There's nothing wrong with that, though I'm sure it's frustrating in a situation like driving instruction where she genuinely has to be willing to accept instruction. Personally, I would pay for extra behind-the-wheel training with a professional if she's having trouble accepting correction from mom and dad. That would be money well spent.

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Did she ask you to FIX her songs, or to LOOK at it and understand her frustration? Because from that one example it looks like she wanted sympathy and you tried to fix the problem. Is that consistent for other times you can think of it happening?

If so, it seems like she wants emotional support, but gets panicked when somebody interferes in the problem-solving part, which wasn't what she wanted or, in this case, asked for.

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2 minutes ago, MinivanMom said:

This sounds like a lot of the interactions I have had with my husband over the years. But I'm a grown-up who knows how to say, "I just need you to listen. I just need support. Stop trying to fix things." And dh has become pretty good at saying, "Do you want my help or do you want me to just listen." 

LOL. I am like you, and I have also taught my husband to ask "Do you want a solution or do you need me to say "poor you""?

Sometimes I want a  solution,  and sometimes I just want sympathy.

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Just now, Calming Tea said:

Some of the situations, she says she wasn't asking for help.  With others she verbally asked for help, with the bow and arrow my son specifically asked, do you want me to try to help?

Then I would talk with her some more and discuss how it is important that she 1. makes it completely clear whether she needs sympathy or help, and 2. that IF it is actually help she wants, she needs to give the other person a chance to figure out the problem. Perhaps her strategy could be to hand over the problem and step away for a few minutes.

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Do you guys do any personality typing systems in your family? That can help with interpersonal skills!

She needs to work on patience, yes, but it also sounds like some of the rest of the family could work on expressing sympathy and reflecting feelings.

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She's INFP

I'm ESTJ

Hubby is INTP- he won' t help her with anything ever, not even offer.  He will just listen and say, I hope you can work that out.  He means it genuinely.  He truly hopes it works out but he knows he is certainly not the one to make that happen because he will NOT put up with that kind of drama.

Can't remember what son is but he's very low drama so usually she goes to him first.  I am very black and white, very ....so she generally doesn't like my way of looking at things....

and yes reflecting feelings and giving sympathy are very very very very low on my list of "ways I can help people" you are right, I can definitely work on that.  Sometimes I can remember that's what people want but it is definitely not my go-to. 

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I got a huge amount from the “How to talk so kids will listen, how to listen so kids will talk” book.  Great advice for how to put sympathetic listening into practice! They have a teen book too but I haven’t seen it.  

 

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I have an ENFP friend that (IMO) over-analyzes everything and wants to talk it all out, although she doesn't seem upset about things...but I've realized unless she asks she just wants a listening ear.  I have to start implementing this with my dd...just assume she doesn't want help..

If she does, then we'll have to work out her understanding of how to let people help.

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27 minutes ago, Calming Tea said:

I have an ENFP friend that (IMO) over-analyzes everything and wants to talk it all out, although she doesn't seem upset about things...but I've realized unless she asks she just wants a listening ear.  I have to start implementing this with my dd...just assume she doesn't want help..

If she does, then we'll have to work out her understanding of how to let people help.

 

Yup.

And, at the same time, she needs to learn coping mechanisms for when people don't respond in the way she wants as well. I think meeting her needs for emotional reflection is very important, don't get me wrong. But it won't always happen in other social groups so yes, it's important to address her reactions as well. It may be more productive when you can lay out out as personality types. "When someone says...I hear...." She can learn that other personality types are likely to respond in certain ways, and she needs to have coping strategies for the anxiety that she feels when the response isn't what she hoped for.

 

And it really does sound like anxiety, that she's reacting from.

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4 hours ago, Calming Tea said:

She's INFP

I'm ESTJ

Hubby is INTP- he won' t help her with anything ever, not even offer.  He will just listen and say, I hope you can work that out.  He means it genuinely.  He truly hopes it works out but he knows he is certainly not the one to make that happen because he will NOT put up with that kind of drama.

Can't remember what son is but he's very low drama so usually she goes to him first.  I am very black and white, very ....so she generally doesn't like my way of looking at things....

and yes reflecting feelings and giving sympathy are very very very very low on my list of "ways I can help people" you are right, I can definitely work on that.  Sometimes I can remember that's what people want but it is definitely not my go-to. 

I think clashing personality types are definitely your issue here.  ESTJs can make INFP types feel really inadequate if they aren't careful.  When you quickly and easily fix something that's been difficult for her it probably makes her feel stupid.  I am either INFP or INTP and I remember having moments like this as a teen. Try your dhs approach.

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4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think clashing personality types are definitely your issue here.  ESTJs can make INFP types feel really inadequate if they aren't careful.  When you quickly and easily fix something that's been difficult for her it probably makes her feel stupid.  I am either INFP or INTP and I remember having moments like this as a teen. Try your dhs approach.

 

 

To tell you the truth, today was the first major clash I've had with her in over two years, where I couldn't get through and we really butted heads, and the thing that I changed was that I basically let her run her life, as long as she's being responsible and there are pre-determined guidelines for certain things,....and I don't help her with anything.  I guess she just really needs her independence.  So I do think it's true that clashing personality types are a huge factor here.  

But again, she needs to not flip out and treat people rudely just because they want to help her. ...and maybe communicate when she's just venting ? We both have something to learn in this, as is the case with most problems.  

You guys have been soooooo helpful.

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2 minutes ago, Calming Tea said:

 

 

To tell you the truth, today was the first major clash I've had with her in over two years, where I couldn't get through and we really butted heads, and the thing that I changed was that I basically let her run her life, as long as she's being responsible and there are pre-determined guidelines for certain things,....and I don't help her with anything.  I guess she just really needs her independence.  So I do think it's true that clashing personality types are a huge factor here.  

But again, she needs to not flip out and treat people rudely just because they want to help her. ...and maybe communicate when she's just venting ? We both have something to learn in this, as is the case with most problems.  

You guys have been soooooo helpful.

Yep I totally agree.  It's a thing with INFP personality type to not be able to deal with criticism and having someone fix something easily that you couldn't fix feels like criticism.  It's definitely a character trait I've had to work on over the years.

definitely no judgment implied over the personality type clash.  I didn't mean you were clashing all the time just that this was one area where those two personality types have a potential for issues.  In the same way that my Estp and my INFP/INTP self are most likely to clash over safety and making decisions without all the data.

 

its not that you clash over everything just that this is an area that your clashes are most likely to occur over...

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Just a note that if she continues to act dramatic/rude after she really did ask for help, I'd try to set up a couple of (dramatised) situations that she witnesses over a 24-hr period. Have one of you (you, son, DH) have something(s) you need help with - and engage in the same behavior with each other that you've seen from her. Then, ask her for help and do the same thing. See if she can see it differently when she witnesses it.

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In your OP, you say that she has dyslexia and focus issues. ADHD is frequently comorbid with dyslexia. In DD12, it can look similar to what you describe -- impatience, frustration, and trouble regulating emotions. Because you mention that she has some trouble focusing, ADHD could be a possible root cause and might be worth looking into.

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