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Hi all! I am looking for some advice (and I have my flame suit on!). My ds is at the end of 11th grade (16) and has really fallen behind in math. He started 9th grade by cheating his way through Algebra 1 which resulted in me failing him. He retook it in 10th and did well. Geometry in 11th grade has been dismal to say the least. He is really struggling to understand it. He has tried teaching text books,Thinkwell math, and I even picked up some SAT geometry prep books and tried to work through it with him. He has taken the SAT but I don't know what the score is yet.  At this point we are so far behind I really don't know what to do with him. He wants to go into engineering but he really lacks the math skills. Any suggestions on what to do about the whole mess?

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Lots of people don't understand geometry that well.  I would finish that up as quickly as possible.  Then move on to Algebra 2. 

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Has he attempted Algebra 2 yet? Which Algebra 1 curriculum did he use in 10th?

I think it would be imperative to get through Algebra 2 and move on to pre-calculus. You might could do a block schedule approach and do one per semester. 

What seemed to be the most difficult aspects of geometry?  This book might help with it.  https://www.amazon.com/Bob-Millers-Geometry-Clueless-Miller/dp/007136109X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525786336&sr=8-1&keywords=bob+miller's+geometry+for+the+clueless

As far as the SAT, geometry is only 10% of it now. It's mostly algebra, advanced algebra, and statistics. 

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Hire someone for Geo and do Geo and A2 simultaneously next year. Commit enough time for him daily to study as well as take his lesson.

Take community college College Algebra and Trig senior year -- plan ahead and get in the course they use for their students who are going in to engineering. Again, set aside plenty of study time.

Plan on not doing Calc in high school.  You want a firm foundation. 

ETA: I took all my math from 8th thru Calc 1 independent study, except Geo. My high school math teacher did not allow anyone to take Geo via I.S., its teacher intensive to do well without derailing the student. 

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I would consider Aleks https://www.aleks.com/independent.  It is online and has a free trial.  It’s adaptive and places a student where they need to be in a course.  You are buying all the courses for a set period of time so if your son tested into their Algebra 1 for instance it is possible for him to complete many courses in one year,  one after another.  

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The best way to turn the geometry thing around is for him to work intensively with a human being every day until it's done, and I'd continue having him work with the human until he is finished with high school math.  You are not going to fix this by finding the perfect resource.  He needs sustained, individualized instruction.  

The bad news is that unless you're willing/able to pay for daily tutoring sessions, the teaching is going to have to come from you.  Once you decide on a resource, I'd recommend working well ahead so that you know where you're going (and also where he's likely to get hung up).  If you want to stick with Teaching Textbooks Geometry, I'd suggest using the text to get through lessons quickly and only watching lectures if there is a hang up.  Then check his work yourself so you can see what he's getting wrong and why.  Because of the way it's structured, Thinkwell would be more difficult to do this with, so even though I love Ed Burger, it wouldn't be my first choice.

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It sounds like self-paced video instruction and computer-based programs aren't working. Can you teach him math on a daily basis? Is there any way you could barter for or hire a live instructor?  If you could find someone with a good math & math teaching background, they'd be able to most effectively and efficiently pinpoint your son's gaps, fill them in, and work forward.

He still has one year, and possibly a second if he does a gap year to bring his math skills up to the level needed for engineering study in college! With a live instructor, he could make a ton of progress.  If he's already completed enough credits in other areas (English, "social studies," foreign language,....), maybe he could take only one or two other classes and focus all the rest of his time on math this next year.

I volunteer my time locally to work live with a few bonus students just because I miss teaching some subjects and because it is something I can do to help others that truly matters. There have to be other homeschool parents in the same spot...approaching the end of their own students' school years and missing teaching their favorite subjects.  Is there anyone in your local groups who might be willing (eager, even!) to take your son's math study in hand?

If you can't find a live, experienced adult instructor to do targeted math work one-on-one with your son, maybe a community college math class or, as a last choice, a live online class.  Those might work best if you could hire a local high school or college student to help for an hour two to three times a week with the day-to-day work, at least until your son feels solid enough to continue on his own.

You do have a whole summer and a whole year, maybe even a gap year, if he's up for that! He could do a lot in that time!

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It sounds like he has been trying to self teach math with a variety of resources and failed - not surprising.  A student who struggles with math needs a human teacher who has subject expertise and pedagogical skills.

If he wants to be an engineer, math needs to be the top priority of his education. You need to work with him on math daily. You cannot outsource the teaching to a book or a website.  If you cannot be that live teacher, sign him up for remedial math at the community college.

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13 minutes ago, regentrude said:

If you cannot be that live teacher, sign him up for remedial math at the community college.

Unfortunately at some community colleges, the remedial math is all online (ours uses ALEKS, which is great for review, but not good for a first pass) and there is no geometry.  

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5 minutes ago, EKS said:

Unfortunately at some community colleges, the remedial math is all online (ours uses ALEKS, which is great for review, but not good for a first pass) and there is no geometry.  

If that is the case, I would seek to enroll the student in a math class at the public high school. Anything to get a live instructor. Clearly, relying on the studnet to self teach did not work.

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13 minutes ago, regentrude said:

If that is the case, I would seek to enroll the student in a math class at the public high school. Anything to get a live instructor. Clearly, relying on the studnet to self teach did not work.

Absolutely--I mentioned the ALEKS thing because it is not at all obvious from the course descriptions at our CC that this is what is going on.

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1 hour ago, mom31257 said:

Which Algebra 1 curriculum did he use in 10th?

He used CLE Algebra 1 and did really well with it. 

55 minutes ago, EKS said:

The bad news is that unless you're willing/able to pay for daily tutoring sessions, the teaching is going to have to come from you.  Once you decide on a resource, I'd recommend working well ahead so that you know where you're going (and also where he's likely to get hung up).

I tried this approach, he still struggles with it. I struggle with explaining it in a manner which he can understand it. I need the videos more so I could help him. I can tutor reading and writing all day long but math not so much. I am looking for a tutor but I have yet to find one that can help him. 

He needs an English credit, 1/2 semester each of government and econ. outside of the math next year. He spends 1/2 a day at Tech center in Engineering and Drafting class. Too bad they don't have a curriculum to do a geometry/ Algebra 2 credit all in one.

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31 minutes ago, mickeysfavorite said:

He spends 1/2 a day at Tech center in Engineering and Drafting class.

Do they offer math classes, or could direct you towards a place that does?

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34 minutes ago, mickeysfavorite said:

He used CLE Algebra 1 and did really well with it. 

I tried this approach, he still struggles with it. I struggle with explaining it in a manner which he can understand it. I need the videos more so I could help him. I can tutor reading and writing all day long but math not so much. I am looking for a tutor but I have yet to find one that can help him. 

 

 

Quote

He needs an English credit, 1/2 semester each of government and econ. outside of the math next year. He spends 1/2 a day at Tech center in Engineering and Drafting class. Too bad they don't have a curriculum to do a geometry/ Algebra 2 credit all in one.

 

Did you ask both the Tech center people and the Math Dept chairperson?  My district does have a remedial class after A1 and Geo, covers both with intent to repeat and pass Regents Exams at 85+,, then they go on to A2 as seniors  if successful, however they have to place into the remedial class (65+ on both Regents Exams first time).  If they do worse on either RE they repeat the entire class in a double period section with a different teacher.   Your child can do a placement test with them.   Then plan on a year at CC before transferring..it won't be a waste if he has not developed his communication skills -- English composition and speech are very handy things to have before attending an engineering college.   

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43 minutes ago, mickeysfavorite said:

I could really benefit from a curriculum that has a TM that shows how to work each problem. Anything like that out there?

 

You need the "Solution Manual". They exist for most textbooks, some are more detailed than others.

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1 hour ago, mickeysfavorite said:

I could really benefit from a curriculum that has a TM that shows how to work each problem. Anything like that out there?

The Lial books have excellent solution manuals, but Lial doesn't have a geometry text (that I know of).

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If you are unable to find a live math class in your area, Mr. D Math offers twice a week, live online math classes over the summer and you complete a full year of high school math in 11 weeks.  The class is live, Mr. D does a great job explaining things, and there are 2-3 live help sessions each week if your student needs extra assistance.  There are also 15-30 minute videos for each lesson that you yourself could watch and help your son with his work.

We use Mr. D math through our co-op and I can't say enough good things about the program and the accessibility of Mr. D and his staff of math teachers if you have any questions whatsoever.

https://www.mrdmath.com/curriculum/summer-programs-1/

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22 hours ago, HeighHo said:

Did you ask both the Tech center people and the Math Dept chairperson?

 Our Tech only offers a math class for general living skills, any class outside of that is left up to the School districts. We live in a rural area so offerings are limited. 

3 hours ago, Pink and Green Mom said:

If you are unable to find a live math class in your area, Mr. D Math offers twice a week, live online math classes over the summer and you complete a full year of high school math in 11 weeks.  The class is live, Mr. D does a great job explaining things, and there are 2-3 live help sessions each week if your student needs extra assistance.  There are also 15-30 minute videos for each lesson that you yourself could watch and help your son with his work

I am going to check this out! Thanks!

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